Top Law Schools

LockBox wrote:Withdrew today as well. I was highly considering this school due to the intellectual property program. Good luck to everyone waiting!

where are ya attending then?

mrwarre85 wrote:fascinated that so many people are considering this school. I hope everyone only wants law school for interpersonal reasons and not to make a living. 23% full time law employment..

And good old fashioned unemployment is even a little higher. Guess we all assume we will be the lucky few with jobs

red_alertz wrote:

LockBox wrote:Withdrew today as well. I was highly considering this school due to the intellectual property program. Good luck to everyone waiting!

where are ya attending then?

I'm still waiting to hear from Loyola, but if not i'm going to retake and see where that might get me in the next cycle. I only took the LSAT once and I think I owe it to myself to see if I can improve my score. I figure if I wait a year i'll have time to sit for the patent bar as well without any rush.

mrwarre85 wrote:fascinated that so many people are considering this school. I hope everyone only wants law school for interpersonal reasons and not to make a living. 23% full time law employment..

Fascinated that you still applied....

I think it's funny that everyone finds the 23% shocking. Has anyone actually paid any attention to the legal job market in CA in the last 5 years? I mean really? The legal market in CA, as it is everywhere, is in the hole. It is getting better though.

The was a recent article in the National Jurist about law schools inflating employment %'s to score higher in the God forsaken USN ranking system. If you really truly believe that SCU law has lower employment %'s than hastings, davis, ucsd, loyola, or any other school outside of boalt and stanford in CA, you are sheep.

Also, the %'s were pulled from a few years ago, again, at the peak of the economic crisis. I know you were all prob in college and like "lol the economic crisis" but it killed the legal market. Try graduating from any law school where a good majority of the employers in the area outsource their first year associate work to India just to survive the economy. Luckily, firms and cos. are returning to actually hiring associates again. And judicial clerks are finally taking jobs and leaving their clearkships open for recent grads.

WIll it still be bad for students who grad in 2011? yes. But it will be better than the last year's %s. Same with those who grad in 2012. The legal market is supposed be much better by 2013, and those of you who are prospectively graduating in 2014 the market should be back in swing.

Pro tip for all of you non-law students: you are taking a chance going to law school. Think of how many students are graduating each year from all of the law schools in the nation. Yea. lots of people. The legal market really doesn't care if you choose to go to school or not. We're flooded.

SFnative wrote:

mrwarre85 wrote:fascinated that so many people are considering this school. I hope everyone only wants law school for interpersonal reasons and not to make a living. 23% full time law employment..

Fascinated that you still applied....

haha I did. I had a fee waiver and the idea of Santa Clara is great. Maybe in better times I would have read the employment data and decided not to withdraw.

scolinos wrote:I think it's funny that everyone finds the 23% shocking. Has anyone actually paid any attention to the legal job market in CA in the last 5 years? I mean really? The legal market in CA, as it is everywhere, is in the hole. It is getting better though.

The was a recent article in the National Jurist about law schools inflating employment %'s to score higher in the God forsaken USN ranking system. If you really truly believe that SCU law has lower employment %'s than hastings, davis, ucsd, loyola, or any other school outside of boalt and stanford in CA, you are sheep.

Also, the %'s were pulled from a few years ago, again, at the peak of the economic crisis. I know you were all prob in college and like "lol the economic crisis" but it killed the legal market. Try graduating from any law school where a good majority of the employers in the area outsource their first year associate work to India just to survive the economy. Luckily, firms and cos. are returning to actually hiring associates again. And judicial clerks are finally taking jobs and leaving their clearkships open for recent grads.

WIll it still be bad for students who grad in 2011? yes. But it will be better than the last year's %s. Same with those who grad in 2012. The legal market is supposed be much better by 2013, and those of you who are prospectively graduating in 2014 the market should be back in swing.

Pro tip for all of you non-law students: you are taking a chance going to law school. Think of how many students are graduating each year from all of the law schools in the nation. Yea. lots of people. The legal market really doesn't care if you choose to go to school or not. We're flooded.

Are you high? 23% is shocking, that is the story not holy shit why are you worried about 23%?? Another thing that is shocking is that there are people like you who post nonsense online about how SCU has comparable placement to hastings or davis or any of those other schools. Obviously you haven't even looked at the data. I'll help you.

Davis 69%
Hastings 62%
Loyola 60%
What is UCSD? I'm not from California but isn't San Diego Private?
San Diego 61%

You're right, SCU at 23% is pretty much on par.

Of course it will likely be better in 2014 but the point is that it likely be even better for Loyola grads in 2014 than SCU grads.

You are probably either going to SCU or planning to go and you have to call a bunch of people online "sheep" because they made an informed decision about where to go to school whereas you did not/ are not.

Sorry if I'm coming across as really harsh I just have a dislike for people who confidently spout bullshit. Like saying the legal market is shit everywhere is true but really it is objectively worse in Cali. The T2 I am considering in the south placed 86% in full time legal employment. I'm not even sure that school is better than SCU, what I am sure of is that the legal market isn't the same everywhere. SCU is probably a great school with great professors, but they are struggling at a pretty insane level right now and it doesn't make any of us sheeps for saying that on TLS.

mrwarre85 wrote:

scolinos wrote:I think it's funny that everyone finds the 23% shocking. Has anyone actually paid any attention to the legal job market in CA in the last 5 years? I mean really? The legal market in CA, as it is everywhere, is in the hole. It is getting better though.

The was a recent article in the National Jurist about law schools inflating employment %'s to score higher in the God forsaken USN ranking system. If you really truly believe that SCU law has lower employment %'s than hastings, davis, ucsd, loyola, or any other school outside of boalt and stanford in CA, you are sheep.

Also, the %'s were pulled from a few years ago, again, at the peak of the economic crisis. I know you were all prob in college and like "lol the economic crisis" but it killed the legal market. Try graduating from any law school where a good majority of the employers in the area outsource their first year associate work to India just to survive the economy. Luckily, firms and cos. are returning to actually hiring associates again. And judicial clerks are finally taking jobs and leaving their clearkships open for recent grads.

WIll it still be bad for students who grad in 2011? yes. But it will be better than the last year's %s. Same with those who grad in 2012. The legal market is supposed be much better by 2013, and those of you who are prospectively graduating in 2014 the market should be back in swing.

Pro tip for all of you non-law students: you are taking a chance going to law school. Think of how many students are graduating each year from all of the law schools in the nation. Yea. lots of people. The legal market really doesn't care if you choose to go to school or not. We're flooded.

Are you high? 23% is shocking, that is the story not holy shit why are you worried about 23%?? Another thing that is shocking is that there are people like you who post nonsense online about how SCU has comparable placement to hastings or davis or any of those other schools. Obviously you haven't even looked at the data. I'll help you.

Davis 69%
Hastings 62%
Loyola 60%
What is UCSD? I'm not from California but isn't San Diego Private?
San Diego 61%

You're right, SCU at 23% is pretty much on par.

Of course it will likely be better in 2014 but the point is that it likely be even better for Loyola grads in 2014 than SCU grads.

You are probably either going to SCU or planning to go and you have to call a bunch of people online "sheep" because they made an informed decision about where to go to school whereas you did not/ are not.

Sorry if I'm coming across as really harsh I just have a dislike for people who confidently spout bullshit. Like saying the legal market is shit everywhere is true but really it is objectively worse in Cali. The T2 I am considering in the south placed 86% in full time legal employment. I'm not even sure that school is better than SCU, what I am sure of is that the legal market isn't the same everywhere. SCU is probably a great school with great professors, but they are struggling at a pretty insane level right now and it doesn't make any of us sheeps for saying that on TLS.

I think he is arguing the same thing you are. That "lower employment %" is probably a mistype.

adonai wrote:

mrwarre85 wrote:

scolinos wrote:I think it's funny that everyone finds the 23% shocking. Has anyone actually paid any attention to the legal job market in CA in the last 5 years? I mean really? The legal market in CA, as it is everywhere, is in the hole. It is getting better though.

The was a recent article in the National Jurist about law schools inflating employment %'s to score higher in the God forsaken USN ranking system. If you really truly believe that SCU law has lower employment %'s than hastings, davis, ucsd, loyola, or any other school outside of boalt and stanford in CA, you are sheep.

Also, the %'s were pulled from a few years ago, again, at the peak of the economic crisis. I know you were all prob in college and like "lol the economic crisis" but it killed the legal market. Try graduating from any law school where a good majority of the employers in the area outsource their first year associate work to India just to survive the economy. Luckily, firms and cos. are returning to actually hiring associates again. And judicial clerks are finally taking jobs and leaving their clearkships open for recent grads.

WIll it still be bad for students who grad in 2011? yes. But it will be better than the last year's %s. Same with those who grad in 2012. The legal market is supposed be much better by 2013, and those of you who are prospectively graduating in 2014 the market should be back in swing.

Pro tip for all of you non-law students: you are taking a chance going to law school. Think of how many students are graduating each year from all of the law schools in the nation. Yea. lots of people. The legal market really doesn't care if you choose to go to school or not. We're flooded.

Are you high? 23% is shocking, that is the story not holy shit why are you worried about 23%?? Another thing that is shocking is that there are people like you who post nonsense online about how SCU has comparable placement to hastings or davis or any of those other schools. Obviously you haven't even looked at the data. I'll help you.

Davis 69%
Hastings 62%
Loyola 60%
What is UCSD? I'm not from California but isn't San Diego Private?
San Diego 61%

You're right, SCU at 23% is pretty much on par.

Of course it will likely be better in 2014 but the point is that it likely be even better for Loyola grads in 2014 than SCU grads.

You are probably either going to SCU or planning to go and you have to call a bunch of people online "sheep" because they made an informed decision about where to go to school whereas you did not/ are not.

Sorry if I'm coming across as really harsh I just have a dislike for people who confidently spout bullshit. Like saying the legal market is shit everywhere is true but really it is objectively worse in Cali. The T2 I am considering in the south placed 86% in full time legal employment. I'm not even sure that school is better than SCU, what I am sure of is that the legal market isn't the same everywhere. SCU is probably a great school with great professors, but they are struggling at a pretty insane level right now and it doesn't make any of us sheeps for saying that on TLS.

I think he is arguing the same thing you are. That "lower employment %" is probably a mistype.

In a nut shell it is risky to go to law school and go to a lower ranked law school.


I would like to get some info. on why those why the 77% are unemployed. No work experience, lower rank(def. a facto), etc. Can you give me your sources please on the employment data I would like to check out my other options. The legal market is very impacted in Norcal. You have the T14(not just Cal and Stanford) and all of the other Norcal schools all looking at San Fran.

It beets out Pacific, USF and Golden Gate. There are not a lot of USD or Loyola grades represented in larger firms in Norcal. You have to remember that when you are thinking about California you are looking at two different legal markets Socal(LA, San Diego, Orange County, etc.) and Nor Cal (San Fran Bay Area, Palo Alto, San Jose, Sacramento)


The reason why I would accept SCU is that I would be happy living in the area for three years if I could not transfer.

If i just skip paying the deposit due in a couple days will it automatically withdrawal or should i go ahead and email them myself.

I'd like to see a source on these unemployment stats as well. Only stats I've seen are from US News, which has unemployment at 23.6% and employment nine months after graduation at 84.9%

acrowder914 wrote:I'd like to see a source on these unemployment stats as well. Only stats I've seen are from US News, which has unemployment at 23.6% and employment nine months after graduation at 84.9%

Let me know if you find better employment stats, but I paid for full access for the US News stats and they break it down a lot more. Someone else already kind of did this but here is my quick overview: of that 84.9 percent employed at 9 months, 50% are in jobs that require the bar, and of those people 50% have full time jobs (meaning the other half is working part time or temp). So 25% of the total class has a full time law job. 25% full time law, 25% part time or worse law, 25% (all rough numbers) unemployed, 25% random other job.

Anyone is more than welcome to make my assessment look less grim, I really like SCU but I'm quite afraid to go there.

Mike088 wrote:If i just skip paying the deposit due in a couple days will it automatically withdrawal or should i go ahead and email them myself.

You can actually withdraw online

Crazzzybudha wrote:

acrowder914 wrote:I'd like to see a source on these unemployment stats as well. Only stats I've seen are from US News, which has unemployment at 23.6% and employment nine months after graduation at 84.9%

Let me know if you find better employment stats, but I paid for full access for the US News stats and they break it down a lot more. Someone else already kind of did this but here is my quick overview: of that 84.9 percent employed at 9 months, 50% are in jobs that require the bar, and of those people 50% have full time jobs (meaning the other half is working part time or temp). So 25% of the total class has a full time law job. 25% full time law, 25% part time or worse law, 25% (all rough numbers) unemployed, 25% random other job.

Anyone is more than welcome to make my assessment look less grim, I really like SCU but I'm quite afraid to go there.

I think he may be confusing the at graduation to 9 months after graduation.

I'm not so surprised if the employment stats at SCU are that low. Think about it - the area is saturated with law schools and it also attracts a lot of T14 grads. Even removing out-of-state T14 grads from the equation, the region houses I think 7 law schools? That is what I call saturated. Additionally, Hastings and Davis are Tier 1 schools, Berkeley is a Top 10 school and Stanford is #3 in the country. I would think that in a bad legal market, it would be pretty tough for SCU grads to find work with all that competition.

fragged wrote:I'm not so surprised if the employment stats at SCU are that low. Think about it - the area is saturated with law schools and it also attracts a lot of T14 grads. Even removing out-of-state T14 grads from the equation, the region houses I think 7 law schools? That is what I call saturated. Additionally, Hastings and Davis are Tier 1 schools, Berkeley is a Top 10 school and Stanford is #3 in the country. I would think that in a bad legal market, it would be pretty tough for SCU grads to find work with all that competition.

It is bad everywhere but I think SF is harder due to the fact it is just plain hard to crack. It doesn't help that some biglaw firms see no point in establishing a huge base in norcal ala Skadden and their closing of the SF office this year. They have the same amount of schools give or take than most popular metropolitan areas.

adonai wrote:

fragged wrote:I'm not so surprised if the employment stats at SCU are that low. Think about it - the area is saturated with law schools and it also attracts a lot of T14 grads. Even removing out-of-state T14 grads from the equation, the region houses I think 7 law schools? That is what I call saturated. Additionally, Hastings and Davis are Tier 1 schools, Berkeley is a Top 10 school and Stanford is #3 in the country. I would think that in a bad legal market, it would be pretty tough for SCU grads to find work with all that competition.

It is bad everywhere but I think SF is harder due to the fact it is just plain hard to crack. It doesn't help that some biglaw firms see no point in establishing a huge base in norcal ala Skadden and their closing of the SF office this year. They have the same amount of schools give or take than most popular metropolitan areas.

They still have their Palo Alto office. But I am sure it recruits heavily from Stanford

adonai wrote:

fragged wrote:I'm not so surprised if the employment stats at SCU are that low. Think about it - the area is saturated with law schools and it also attracts a lot of T14 grads. Even removing out-of-state T14 grads from the equation, the region houses I think 7 law schools? That is what I call saturated. Additionally, Hastings and Davis are Tier 1 schools, Berkeley is a Top 10 school and Stanford is #3 in the country. I would think that in a bad legal market, it would be pretty tough for SCU grads to find work with all that competition.

It is bad everywhere but I think SF is harder due to the fact it is just plain hard to crack. It doesn't help that some biglaw firms see no point in establishing a huge base in norcal ala Skadden and their closing of the SF office this year. They have the same amount of schools give or take than most popular metropolitan areas.

It would be interesting to see if other bottom T2 schools in metropolitan areas have employment stats that are as bad. I wonder if (for example) Buffalo and Hofstra are in the same boat as SCU, competing with Columbia, NYU, Cornell, Fordham, etc. in such a shitty market.

jarofsoup wrote:

adonai wrote:

fragged wrote:I'm not so surprised if the employment stats at SCU are that low. Think about it - the area is saturated with law schools and it also attracts a lot of T14 grads. Even removing out-of-state T14 grads from the equation, the region houses I think 7 law schools? That is what I call saturated. Additionally, Hastings and Davis are Tier 1 schools, Berkeley is a Top 10 school and Stanford is #3 in the country. I would think that in a bad legal market, it would be pretty tough for SCU grads to find work with all that competition.

It is bad everywhere but I think SF is harder due to the fact it is just plain hard to crack. It doesn't help that some biglaw firms see no point in establishing a huge base in norcal ala Skadden and their closing of the SF office this year. They have the same amount of schools give or take than most popular metropolitan areas.

They still have their Palo Alto office. But I am sure it recruits heavily from Stanford

Yeah, it is more like a merging of the SF office into the Palo Alto one, but they're still laying off almost all of their paralegals and possibly some associates. Still, that's one less office and one less office that is recruiting even though the office was only about 25 attorneys which is like a summer class of 1 or 2 at most probably.

adonai wrote:

jarofsoup wrote:

adonai wrote:

fragged wrote:I'm not so surprised if the employment stats at SCU are that low. Think about it - the area is saturated with law schools and it also attracts a lot of T14 grads. Even removing out-of-state T14 grads from the equation, the region houses I think 7 law schools? That is what I call saturated. Additionally, Hastings and Davis are Tier 1 schools, Berkeley is a Top 10 school and Stanford is #3 in the country. I would think that in a bad legal market, it would be pretty tough for SCU grads to find work with all that competition.

It is bad everywhere but I think SF is harder due to the fact it is just plain hard to crack. It doesn't help that some biglaw firms see no point in establishing a huge base in norcal ala Skadden and their closing of the SF office this year. They have the same amount of schools give or take than most popular metropolitan areas.

They still have their Palo Alto office. But I am sure it recruits heavily from Stanford

Yeah, it is more like a merging of the SF office into the Palo Alto one, but they're still laying off almost all of their paralegals and possibly some associates. Still, that's one less office and one less office that is recruiting.

Do you think that one of the advantages of a school like USD is that it is the sole Law School in the city?

jarofsoup wrote:
Do you think that one of the advantages of a school like USD is that it is the sole Law School in the city?

USD isn't. I mean, yeah, they're TTT and TTTT, but there's Thomas Jefferson and California Western in SD, plus you have SoCal grads going back to SD all of the time.

Do you think that one of the advantages of a school like USD is that it is the sole Law School in the city?

I was trying to apply a similar philosophy to Lewis & Clark in Oregon. Clearly they are the top law school in Oregon, but their employment stats are abysmal. I don't know about USD.

jarofsoup wrote: Do you think that one of the advantages of a school like USD is that it is the sole Law School in the city?

I have no idea but I the consensus here says that other socal peer schools such as Loyola and Pepperdine have no real mobility to SD. However, T14 grads probably have a huge advantage in SD over USD students, but where is that not really true? I remember one poster mentioning that the USAO in SD filled up all its summer spots with HYS students before they even gave notice or even a chance to USD students. That may attest to the preparedness of HYS students or the lack thereof for USD students. My speculation is that it was neither and that it speaks to the preference of some of the more "prestigious" government agencies and maybe even some biglaw firms. USD may be the best school in San Diego, but it is still a T2 when compared to the T14. USD is probably great for midlaw and pd/da though. Even though hiring hasn't picked up entirely at smaller firms and local government, everyone says for our class it should be back to normal. All current law students I've talked to seem to think so as well, and some of the most bitter posters here seem to concede to that too.

swilson215 wrote:

jarofsoup wrote:
Do you think that one of the advantages of a school like USD is that it is the sole Law School in the city?

USD isn't. I mean, yeah, they're TTT and TTTT, but there's Thomas Jefferson and California Western in SD, plus you have SoCal grads going back to SD all of the time.

I do not know I think that if you are employed 12-24 months after graduation salaried you are in good shape.

jarofsoup wrote:

swilson215 wrote:

jarofsoup wrote:
Do you think that one of the advantages of a school like USD is that it is the sole Law School in the city?

USD isn't. I mean, yeah, they're TTT and TTTT, but there's Thomas Jefferson and California Western in SD, plus you have SoCal grads going back to SD all of the time.

I do not know I think that if you are employed 12-24 months after graduation salaried you are in good shape.

Better than 12-24 months out and unemployed. I was unemployed for almost a year after undergrad. Tough market.