Hofstra 2011 Forum

[Aqualibrium]

If you are telling the truth is it trolling?

Yes. Especially since the only option for most of these people is take the advice and not go to law school at all, or ignore the advice and go to law school anyway. 99% of them are gonna go with the latter. After a warning or two you should probably just leave the kids alone to discuss their waitlists/acceptances/rejects. No need to beat a dead horse.

[Nicholasnickynic]

how high? I am said person, and I really want to stay in NY PA NJ maybe OH, MI. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated im russianwater on lsn so there is a nice comprehensive list of the schools i applied to.

Okay, New York is one of the (if not *the*) most competitive markets in america.

Here's what you'll be up against, in terms of schools located in new york alone:

NYU, Columbia (top 6),
Cornell (all top 14),
Fordham (top 40, i believe?)
Cardozo (top 50ish?)
Brooklyn (somewhere in the 60s or 70s)
St Johns (70s)
Syracuse - 86 (ah a school your tied with).
And a bunch of T3 and t4 schools


Wow thats a lot of intense competition. But it doesn't stop there.
How about feeder schools outside of NY?

Boston U (top 25ish)
One of the Rutgers (80)

Well, okay thats bad but Its not... [before you can think any further, you hear the voice of a infomercial announcer]

*BUT WAIT* THERES MORE!

How about all the people in the top 14 that regularly go into new York?

Harvard
Yale
Duke
Uva
Penn

Then of course, Every scrub on the east coast has wet dreams about working in NY-which means you've got people in the top 10% from all over the east coast that are trying to break in,
including people from T1 schools.

Are you starting to see why it is an incredibly incredibly bad idea to try to work in NY?

Oh p.s. If you go to hostra, and finish #3 in your class, and someone land a job at a midlaw firm, it might work out. After 30 years you could probably pay off your loans. Allthough thats no sure thing- hofstra is expensive and NY CoL is insane. And OH YEAH- for the rest of your professional career, you will be looked down on- in case these boards hadn't tipped you off, people in law, are for the most part, elitest snobs. So even if you get incredibly lucky and are able to get a somewhat decent job, and even if you can pay off your loans, you will have a raging inferiority complex.
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I can't really speak on the NJ/MI markets.
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As to OH- the two highest rank schools there are in the 50s, and I think you'd have a good chance of getting into one of them- though you'd have to double check.

Oh, and if you apply to cinci, really really focus on your softs. They actually do care about leadership etc there.
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If I were you, I'd go for penn.

Apply to Pitt
Penn State
Temple
Villanova
And the Rutgers that feeds into Philly (newark maybe?)

If you got into one of these schools, your only competition would be the other schools on the list, and Penn. In other words, you'd be competing with 4 peer schools and one dominator (although many in Penn goto... bum bum NY).
..

You'd need to check your numbers to see where you can get in. Off the top of my head though, I think you'd have a good chance at Penn state, Pitt, and rutgers. Not sure about the other two.

[reasonable_man]

Is this thread real?

Its pretty cool. People are talking about going to Hofstra and simply ignoring the fact that 1/4 of its graduates fail the bar exam and an even greater percentage of its graduates are completely unemployed or thankful to be handling personal injury slip and fall cases and earning 35k to 45k (with 150k in loans to pay back). I was friends with kids that graduated jobless from Hofstra in the top 8% to 10% of their class in 2008, before things got really ugly. Yet, there are people in this thread talking about Hofstra and the US Attorney's office in the same sentence (as if anyone graduating from Hofstra has ANY shot at working for the US Attorneys Office). Its sorta sad really that the only thing on everyone's mind is getting accepted so that they can fork over 150k for an education that MIGHT land them a job defending slip and falls for 45k in Suffolk County. But oh well.

You've been trying this for 3 pages now, let it rest.

The bait. Nobody's taking it.

If you're seriously considering going to Hofstra, you've already taken, eaten, and disgested the "bait."

I disagree. In this very thread, there is a potential future Hofstra student that believes that the DOJ is a possible career path coming out of Hofstra Law. Obviously, this person has not "digested the bait."

Hofstra is no average TTT. Its way worse. The poster above does an excellent job in outlining the extensive competition for Hofstra grads. However, Hofstra, in and of itself is particularly dishonest in the way it approaches the Law school business. I have seen and held in my own hands an e-mail sent by the Hofstra administration asking its lower ranked students to forgo the July 2010 bar exam and sit for the February 2011 exam instead to “increase their chances of passing.” In reality, this letter was not sent to help students that would otherwise fail to pass the exam. It was sent because the USNWR does not look into a school’s February bar pass rates. It’s a way for Hofstra to game the system and make it appear on paper that the school had an increase in bar pass rate, when in reality, it simply had its worse students not sit for the exam.

A few years back (in 2005 or so), Hofstra started a night program. It suspiciously, and without any warning, terminated that program last year. Why? Because the USNWR started to count night programs for purposes of ranking LSAT and GPA scores. Once again, Hofstra is out of the rack and on the attack at gaming figures.

Lastly, in this economy, Hofstra still throws up an absurd median salary figure. It does this when it knows that less than 5, not 5% but 5 of its students earn anything near the 100k mark and where most of its students will wind up working in small, poorly run, personal injury mills earning less than 50k to start, with debt of upwards 170k.

Anyone seriously considering Hofstra deserves to have this information made available to them. They deserve to know that 25% of their incoming class will fail the NY bar exam. They deserve to know that more than 90% of their incoming class will be lucky to earn 50k doing DUI defense and/or plaintiff’s side personal injury. They deserve to know that the school actively engages in shady conduct in order to best game the rankings. And they deserve to know that Hofstra grads are looked upon with a special condescending ire, as it is well known that the university as a whole is a breeding ground for spoiled brats from Nassau County with daddy-bought BMWs and an excessive hair gel problem.

[ClayDavis]

If you're seriously considering going to Hofstra, you've already taken, eaten, and disgested the "bait."

I disagree. In this very thread, there is a potential future Hofstra student that believes that the DOJ is a possible career path coming out of Hofstra Law. Obviously, this person has not "digested the bait."

Hofstra is no average TTT. Its way worse. The poster above does an excellent job in outlining the extensive competition for Hofstra grads. However, Hofstra, in and of itself is particularly dishonest in the way it approaches the Law school business. I have seen and held in my own hands an e-mail sent by the Hofstra administration asking its lower ranked students to forgo the July 2010 bar exam and sit for the February 2011 exam instead to “increase their chances of passing.” In reality, this letter was not sent to help students that would otherwise fail to pass the exam. It was sent because the USNWR does not look into a school’s February bar pass rates. It’s a way for Hofstra to game the system and make it appear on paper that the school had an increase in bar pass rate, when in reality, it simply had its worse students not sit for the exam.

A few years back (in 2005 or so), Hofstra started a night program. It suspiciously, and without any warning, terminated that program last year. Why? Because the USNWR started to count night programs for purposes of ranking LSAT and GPA scores. Once again, Hofstra is out of the rack and on the attack at gaming figures.

Lastly, in this economy, Hofstra still throws up an absurd median salary figure. It does this when it knows that less than 5, not 5% but 5 of its students earn anything near the 100k mark and where most of its students will wind up working in small, poorly run, personal injury mills earning less than 50k to start, with debt of upwards 170k.

Anyone seriously considering Hofstra deserves to have this information made available to them. They deserve to know that 25% of their incoming class will fail the NY bar exam. They deserve to know that more than 90% of their incoming class will be lucky to earn 50k doing DUI defense and/or plaintiff’s side personal injury. They deserve to know that the school actively engages in shady conduct in order to best game the rankings. And they deserve to know that Hofstra grads are looked upon with a special condescending ire, as it is well known that the university as a whole is a breeding ground for spoiled brats from Nassau County with daddy-bought BMWs and an excessive hair gel problem.

True.

I was turning on the word "bait," making it into something (e.g. false median starting salaries) that TTTs use to lure students.

[Ludacrispat26]

A few years back (in 2005 or so), Hofstra started a night program. It suspiciously, and without any warning, terminated that program last year. Why? Because the USNWR started to count night programs for purposes of ranking LSAT and GPA scores. Once again, Hofstra is out of the rack and on the attack at gaming figures.

i'm with ya with the warnings, but i wouldn't call this evidence against the school. most law schools are gaming figures in similar ways.

but yes, if you are a rich white kid from long island who isn't very smart, you'll probably wind up at hofstra law

[reasonable_man]

A few years back (in 2005 or so), Hofstra started a night program. It suspiciously, and without any warning, terminated that program last year. Why? Because the USNWR started to count night programs for purposes of ranking LSAT and GPA scores. Once again, Hofstra is out of the rack and on the attack at gaming figures.

i'm with ya with the warnings, but i wouldn't call this evidence against the school. most law schools are gaming figures in similar ways.

but yes, if you are a rich white kid from long island who isn't very smart, you'll probably wind up at hofstra law

And every employer knows this..... Its honestly far worse than the stigma attached to graduates of BLS or SJU.

[northwood]

Garfield skin tones--- masive tons of hair gel.... being an obnixous disgrace to the italian culture.... bratty rich kids from long island..... living on long island...... plus general douchbachery... tell me it isnt so! thats my deepest darkest nightmare! Am I sending myself to hell BEFORE dying! AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

someone please wake me up! is this a real life freddy kruger movie! Im now afraid to sleep forever!

[Nicholasnickynic]

Garfield skin tones--- masive tons of hair gel.... being an obnixous disgrace to the italian culture.... bratty rich kids from long island..... living on long island...... plus general douchbachery... tell me it isnt so! thats my deepest darkest nightmare! Am I sending myself to hell BEFORE dying! AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

someone please wake me up! is this a real life freddy kruger movie! Im now afraid to sleep forever!

You're pretty calm. I'd be freaking out worse if I was spending 150k to experience the hell you describe.

[NJcollegestudent]

It is amazing that regional schools are being bashed. is Hofstra the best? For some it maybe, and for others it is a backup.

[northwood]

i withdrew my application... hell averted ( at least for now). I just cant see myself on long island. ever.

[NJcollegestudent]

My status checker just went blank now. I have no idea what it means, i was wait listed earlier.

[Nicholasnickynic]

i withdrew my application... hell averted ( at least for now). I just cant see myself on long island. ever.

=)
one soul saved =)

[SixStrings11]

i withdrew my application... hell averted ( at least for now). I just cant see myself on long island. ever.

=)
one soul saved =)

So just because I'm not withdrawing my application means I'm definitely going to Hofstra and spending $150k? Keep in mind people have the option to apply to other schools and/or receive scholarship.
In my own personal case, I'm already accepted at two other schools. Hofstra is my backup and there was no application fee. I don't see how it hurts me to see what I can get, and to have some options..

[reasonable_man]

It is amazing that regional schools are being bashed. is Hofstra the best? For some it maybe, and for others it is a backup.

You're not actually reading any of the "bashing" are you?

[NJcollegestudent]

Notice what six string pointed out with regards to Hofstra. There is no fee and since when does applying to a school mean that somehow your future will not be good.

Why is it that posters choose to only post these wild fanatical stories about large portions of the class being unemployed, when if that were the case no one would attend?

The bashing is more or less what is on this board. Saying that Rutgers is not a good school? Hofstra is not either? Really, how is it not? Do magical fairies somehow grant amazing intellectual powers to only t-30 students, and leave the rest in a cesspool?

I cannot imagine what it was like before some of the t-30 schools even moved into that ranking, in terms of posters advising against attending.

[Aqualibrium]

Why is it that posters choose to only post these wild fanatical stories about large portions of the class being unemployed, when if that were the case no one would attend?

Thousands of people pile into Cooley every year. Hundreds file into Ave Maria every single year as well. What do you think the job prospects are like at those schools? Yet year after year, people take out the loans and go.

This argument that "if it were true that large portions of the class couldn't get legal work, no one would attend the school" is EXTREMELY IDIOTIC. I'm really not even sure how someone can make the argument with a straight face. Whatever though.

If you truly don't believe it, why don't you go to Hofstra or wherever, ask 2L's and 3L's about their job prospects, see what you hear.

[TT09]

My status checker just went blank now. I have no idea what it means, i was wait listed earlier.

+1...WTF?

[NJcollegestudent]

I cannot speak to those two schools in general as they are not close to where my potential market is. Why do posters not trust a persons judgment when it comes to school. Everyone does research, and most applicants know where they are comfortable and where they can be in the best situation. Others are backups, and note that part as it seems to elude posters here. Applying to schools where you have a realistic chance of gaining admissions has no downside.

Also with the nonsense of $150,000 of debt out of law school. There are scholarships, government loans, and LARP programs that can greatly reduce that burden. There are also private scholarships that can defray the cost of attending. Earning a legal education for $75,000 ( in state school) is tremendous in that sense. J.D. are not fixed in opportunity, and people can expand what they do with it.

[NJcollegestudent]

My status checker just went blank now. I have no idea what it means, i was wait listed earlier.

+1...WTF?

I still cannot believe you were wait-listed with your numbers.

[TT09]

My status checker just went blank now. I have no idea what it means, i was wait listed earlier.

+1...WTF?

I still cannot believe you were wait-listed with your numbers.

Yeah, a bit surprised myself, but I guess that's just how it goes with some schools.

[Aqualibrium]

I cannot speak to those two schools in general as they are not close to where my potential market is. Why do posters not trust a persons judgment when it comes to school. Everyone does research, and most applicants know where they are comfortable and where they can be in the best situation. Others are backups, and note that part as it seems to elude posters here. Applying to schools where you have a realistic chance of gaining admissions has no downside.

Also with the nonsense of $150,000 of debt out of law school. There are scholarships, government loans, and LARP programs that can greatly reduce that burden. There are also private scholarships that can defray the cost of attending. Earning a legal education for $75,000 ( in state school) is tremendous in that sense. J.D. are not fixed in opportunity, and people can expand what they do with it.

How many people are getting private scholarships that cover a significant portion of their law school debt? Maybe 10% of the applicant pool?


Isn't it true that very few schools grant significant (or any) need based aid?

Government loans have to be repaid don't they?

How many schools actually have a good LRAP plan (if you do some research I'm sure you'll see that the answer is far far far fewer than you think)?

Isn't it better to skip law school and work for 40k than to go to law school, amass 100k+ in loans, and then rely on IBR to bail you out for the next 25 years while you work for 40k?

I personally don't distrust your judgment. I think most of the vitriol that is spewed about schools like Hofstra is just to ensure that applicants who are considering matriculation temper their expectations.

[reasonable_man]

Notice what six string pointed out with regards to Hofstra. There is no fee and since when does applying to a school mean that somehow your future will not be good.

Why is it that posters choose to only post these wild fanatical stories about large portions of the class being unemployed, when if that were the case no one would attend?

The bashing is more or less what is on this board. Saying that Rutgers is not a good school? Hofstra is not either? Really, how is it not? Do magical fairies somehow grant amazing intellectual powers to only t-30 students, and leave the rest in a cesspool?

I cannot imagine what it was like before some of the t-30 schools even moved into that ranking, in terms of posters advising against attending.

You should absolutely attend Hofstra. You will fit right in.

[Nicholasnickynic]

Why is it that posters choose to only post these wild fanatical stories about large portions of the class being unemployed, when if that were the case no one would attend?

Why is it that posters choose to only post these wild fanatical stories about large portions of the class being unemployed, when if that were the case no one would attend?

Why is it that posters choose to only post these wild fanatical stories about large portions of the class being unemployed, when if that were the case no one would attend?

YESSS!

This is my favorite post of ALL-TIME! "Wild Fanatical Stories about... unemployment"

People at respected T1s are shitting bricks about unemployment. Did you even read my earlier post about hofstra's prospects in NY? Perhaps you think there are enough legal jobs to go around for every one?

There aren't. Someone can get the exact stat, but I think its something like last year there were 30k job openings (many of which no doubt were crappy) and 45k law grads. Do the math please.

As to the whole Do other things with a JD... hmm excuse me for a second while I go look up an article for you...

And as to your comment about people in the t-30 being sparkled with fairy dust that makes them smart or w/e.

No one is saying people in the top 30 are smarter.
No one is saying people in the top 30 get a better education.
What they are saying, is that in an extremely hard job market, with a surplus of grads, employers rely on various criteria to quickly and easily weed people out.

And by "various criteria" I mean law school ranking.


Also, in regards to your:

what if Hofstra is the best someone can do?

Well, maybe they shouldn't go to law school then? Perhaps its a sign.


Ahh hear it is:
--LinkRemoved--
I suppose thats more wild fantasies...

[reasonable_man]

I cannot speak to those two schools in general as they are not close to where my potential market is. Why do posters not trust a persons judgment when it comes to school. Everyone does research, and most applicants know where they are comfortable and where they can be in the best situation. Others are backups, and note that part as it seems to elude posters here. Applying to schools where you have a realistic chance of gaining admissions has no downside.

Also with the nonsense of $150,000 of debt out of law school. There are scholarships, government loans, and LARP programs that can greatly reduce that burden. There are also private scholarships that can defray the cost of attending. Earning a legal education for $75,000 ( in state school) is tremendous in that sense. J.D. are not fixed in opportunity, and people can expand what they do with it.

OK scholar. So please tell us about your career plan. Seriously. Instead of just arguing blindly, tell us what you believe is the most likely result of your attending any of the TTTs you have applied to for this coming fall. How much debt will you take out? What connections do you have to the job market? How much do you expect to earn at graduation? What type of practice do you believe you will have?

[Nicholasnickynic]

I have to go study for exams. I expect more interesting stuff when I get back.