UVa. Regular Decision

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r6_philly
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby r6_philly » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:02 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:

i disagree. i've seen people on LSN with mark's #s who have ED'd and gotten money. UVA isn't dumb - they don't want to "trick" or "trap" people with really high numbers who could have gotten into HYS into attending without any aid just because they theoretically can with an ED. also, mark already sent a LOCI about a month ago, and i think he's looking for further advice.

(sorry to use your name OP, but it's your username so i thought it would be easiest)


I remember from last cycle that people were promised to be assessed fairly when it comes to scholarships if you apply ED.

The problem is you won't have any leverage because 1. you can't hang around long enough to get offers from other schools and 2. you can't choose another school. So what they give you is pretty much what you get and what you have to be happy with.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby paulinaporizkova » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:04 pm

somewhere wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:... those schools would accept you sure...but they ALL wouldn't be throwing all that money your way with a 167. period. it doesn't happen.


This is a guess. It may be a roughly educated guess rather than a purely wild one, since it's likely based on anecdotes and the self-selected (and therefore probably not broadly representative) data from LSN/TLS, but it's a guess all the same.

And you're also exaggerating the scenario: they're not "all" throwing "all that money." If you're looking at the same profile I'm looking at, I believe there's only one school in the T14 that's offering (so far) very large sums of money, and that's Virginia; and even there, the sum (90k), divided over three years, is certainly substantial but not a full-ride.

I'll say it again: it looks to be a very good cycle, better than the numbers alone would predict, which suggests an unusually strong application apart from those numbers, but nothing shocking or crazy or outlandish or downright unbelievable.


Michigan is also giving big money out - I'd say in an amount comparable to UVA. I believe Penn has begun sending out their schol invites as well. Also this might sound a bit elementary but I don't know how else to say it - there are always reasons for things in these cases. If a 167 got a lot of money to attend a top 10, I would guess that person did 20 years of military service and got deployed overseas multiple times, has a doctorate or two or three, or something to that effect. Believe me, before I became addicted to this site I thought I had a good chance at CCN (at least CN) with an LSAT score around this one, super high GPA, LGBT status, and reputable softs. I was surprised when things didn't go exactly my way, and then I found this site and I was like, oh ok, reality check. And now it's all good. But I'm 800 posts deep.

somewhere
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby somewhere » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:15 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:Michigan is also giving big money out - I'd say in an amount comparable to UVA.


I was just talking about neonx's profile, since that's where the claims of "outlandish" and "troll" came from. And there Michigan is 30k, which is 10k a year. Nice, but not huge.

r6_philly
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby r6_philly » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:17 pm

somewhere wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:Michigan is also giving big money out - I'd say in an amount comparable to UVA.


I was just talking about neonx's profile, since that's where the claims of "outlandish" and "troll" came from. And there Michigan is 30k, which is 10k a year. Nice, but not huge.


Where do you want to attend in the fall?

somewhere
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby somewhere » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:08 pm

r6_philly wrote:
somewhere wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:Michigan is also giving big money out - I'd say in an amount comparable to UVA.


I was just talking about neonx's profile, since that's where the claims of "outlandish" and "troll" came from. And there Michigan is 30k, which is 10k a year. Nice, but not huge.


Where do you want to attend in the fall?


Me? I really don't know yet. I'd say Columbia (if I get accepted) or NYU (yay! accepted) would be among the top choices, since my wife and I would both love to try life in NYC and I've got quite a few friends there (two already at NYU), but I'm also concerned about high cost of living— and, even though it may be a silly consideration, I'd be bummed to have to get rid of my dog (high energy, not ideal for an apartment).

Stanford or Berkeley would also be great (if I get accepted to either), since that's the area I'm from originally, and I do love it there. My mom's definitely rooting for that.

I only recently started really reading about Michigan and Penn, and they both sound awesome.

So, yeah: no real idea, yet. Wait for the rest of the responses and figure out the money situation and re-assess.

markdyoung
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby markdyoung » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:18 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:
lzyovrachievr wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:
if you really want to go there, you should ED and you'd get in almost certainly with money

Well, first off, the best way to get into UVA is most certainly ED. However, I wouldn't advocate it, since it's also ridiculously unlikely that you'll get money after you do that. (They already know you're going.) So if you have the numbers, R6 is right with a convincing 'LOCI.' But still you might get the WL.


i disagree. i've seen people on LSN with mark's #s who have ED'd and gotten money. UVA isn't dumb - they don't want to "trick" or "trap" people with really high numbers who could have gotten into HYS into attending without any aid just because they theoretically can with an ED. also, mark already sent a LOCI about a month ago, and i think he's looking for further advice.

(sorry to use your name OP, but it's your username so i thought it would be easiest)


Haha...don't worry about it. You all seem to give great advice, and I don't care if the name gets thrown around on here. I'll let you call me Sally if you can get me accepted.

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby lzyovrachievr » Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:17 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:i disagree. i've seen people on LSN with mark's #s who have ED'd and gotten money. UVA isn't dumb - they don't want to "trick" or "trap" people with really high numbers who could have gotten into HYS into attending without any aid just because they theoretically can with an ED. also, mark already sent a LOCI about a month ago, and i think he's looking for further advice.

(sorry to use your name OP, but it's your username so i thought it would be easiest)

I realize he has sent an LOCI. I was making a general statement that I still believe. In his case, I'm not sure what he should do because he has sent what normally would be sent. He may just have to wait it out. (Sorry, Mark.)

In general, it's kind of doctrine on this site that EDing drastically reduces your chances for merit money. (I'm not making any reference to money based on financial need.) I don't think that would make UVa dumb if they followed that; I think it would make them rather smart. Merit money is normally given to candidates with numbers above median to increase the odds that they will attend. If you are already attending, then that money is not needed. Most schools follow this, except Mich, as I understand it. This is why many advise that EDing is not a good idea if you could get in to the school anyway without the ED bump.

I've seen blog posts, such as this one, that refer to this practice of 'trapping' good-numbered admits. It is suspected that she is referring to UVa.

SZ wrote:But second, it’s about money. In many cases, schools allocate little or even no financial aid grants for students admitted via binding early decision programs. At Michigan Law, we most decidedly do not do that; we provide both merit- and need-based grants to early-decision admittees on the exact same terms as we do to those admitted under regular-decision programs. I am queasy at the idea of locking people in through a binding program and then not providing them with the aid made available to others.

http://www.law.umich.edu/connection/a2z ... aspx?ID=35

or

SZ wrote:One sort of gross, in my view, distortion that has resulted from that exploitation capacity is the invention of the “floating” early decision program: At some schools, an applicant can convert a regular-decision application into an early-decision application at any point in the admissions season. When the stress starts getting to you, you agree to forego all others in an exchange for a quick admit decision. The school locks you in, thereby saving itself any financial aid its policies might otherwise have dictated it disburse in order to recruit you.

http://www.law.umich.edu/connection/a2z ... aspx?ID=44

ETA: FTR, I'm not saying it couldn't ever happen- just that it's unlikely in most cases.

ETA2: TL;DR I know. ED affects merit monies. No one on LSN who reported an ED application for the last two years also reported money given.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby paulinaporizkova » Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:53 pm

lzyovrachievr wrote:ETA2: TL;DR I know. ED affects merit monies. No one on LSN who reported an ED application for the last two years also reported money given.


Are you talking about UVA? I hear your argument but that (above) is a flawed point for it. What kind of numbers did these people have? If they were all 3.9-4.0 and 165-168 OR 3.3-3.6 and 170, they're not getting money because their numbers don't warrant it, not because they ED'd.

I know I've seen at least one person on LSN with higher #s get money after an ED - it was a 3.5/176 or so. It may have been a VA resident, I can't remember. I don't remember the year, but I'd guess it was within the last two. Maybe I'll try and produce this LSN profile if I have some time later.

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby lzyovrachievr » Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:58 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:
lzyovrachievr wrote:ETA2: TL;DR I know. ED affects merit monies. No one on LSN who reported an ED application for the last two years also reported money given.


Are you talking about UVA? I hear your argument but that (above) is a flawed point for it. What kind of numbers did these people have? If they were all 3.9-4.0 and 165-168 OR 3.3-3.6 and 170, they're not getting money because their numbers don't warrant it, not because they ED'd.

I know I've seen at least one person on LSN with higher #s get money after an ED - it was a 3.5/176 or so. It may have been a VA resident, I can't remember. I don't remember the year, but I'd guess it was within the last two. Maybe I'll try and produce this LSN profile if I have some time later.


I understand what you're getting at, but technically we don't have a lot of proof because people with higher numbers don't often ED. I did see a 174/3.64 that didn't get anything, but you'll have to look at the others. I did a LSN search for all accepted UVA applicants in 08-09, 09-10, and 10-11 that applied Early Decision, and none of them list an amount for scholarship $. (As you can see here: http://uva.lawschoolnumbers.com/applica ... =3&type=jd )

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LLB2JD
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby LLB2JD » Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:59 pm

I think some people are getting carried away with the fact it appears you have a better shot with an ED application, and forgetting that this is a darn competitive school to get in. Just as a soft reminder, for last year, the median LSAT was 170, and GPA was 3.85

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby lzyovrachievr » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:11 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:I know I've seen at least one person on LSN with higher #s get money after an ED - it was a 3.5/176 or so. It may have been a VA resident, I can't remember. I don't remember the year, but I'd guess it was within the last two. Maybe I'll try and produce this LSN profile if I have some time later.

Couldn't find this particular person. Found these with no monies:
175/3.5
176/3.1
180/2.95 /URM
175/3.33
176/3.2
173/3.5
All splitters, but high LSAT splitters. The issue is that people with numbers like Mark don't ED because they don't need to. No one from 2008-11 on LSN that applied ED reported any money, based on that applicant search above. But there weren't any with 175 and a >3.7 GPA or a 3.95 and a >170 LSAT.
Sooo. I don't think either of us knows for sure, but it doesn't look good in my book. I heard from a UVA student that the Dean said he gave 2 EDers a scholly last year.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby paulinaporizkova » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:14 pm

lzyovrachievr wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:
lzyovrachievr wrote:ETA2: TL;DR I know. ED affects merit monies. No one on LSN who reported an ED application for the last two years also reported money given.


Are you talking about UVA? I hear your argument but that (above) is a flawed point for it. What kind of numbers did these people have? If they were all 3.9-4.0 and 165-168 OR 3.3-3.6 and 170, they're not getting money because their numbers don't warrant it, not because they ED'd.

I know I've seen at least one person on LSN with higher #s get money after an ED - it was a 3.5/176 or so. It may have been a VA resident, I can't remember. I don't remember the year, but I'd guess it was within the last two. Maybe I'll try and produce this LSN profile if I have some time later.


I understand what you're getting at, but technically we don't have a lot of proof because people with higher numbers don't often ED. I did see a 174/3.64 that didn't get anything, but you'll have to look at the others. I did a LSN search for all accepted UVA applicants in 08-09, 09-10, and 10-11 that applied Early Decision, and none of them list an amount for scholarship $. (As you can see here: http://uva.lawschoolnumbers.com/applica ... =3&type=jd )


I do recall that the person I'm talking about had her ED reported but then she just wrote in the quotes section that they gave her $$. She didn't actually report an amount. Another thing to think about is, people who ED to schools are perhaps likely to utilize LSN a little less, because they know where they're going early in the cycle and don't play the whole numbers/comparison game that a lot of people on LSN do. Like, maybe a candidate that has many acceptances, rejections, WL, scholarship offers, etc. will use LSN but someone who ED'd right away is more likely to stay out of reporting heavily back to LSN, simply because they don't have as much to report and don't need to stew over their chances of acceptances and scholarship money at this school or that school.


I agree with you that there is not much proof at all.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby paulinaporizkova » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:15 pm

lzyovrachievr wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:I know I've seen at least one person on LSN with higher #s get money after an ED - it was a 3.5/176 or so. It may have been a VA resident, I can't remember. I don't remember the year, but I'd guess it was within the last two. Maybe I'll try and produce this LSN profile if I have some time later.

Couldn't find this particular person. Found these with no monies:
175/3.5
176/3.1
180/2.95 /URM
175/3.33
176/3.2
173/3.5
All splitters, but high LSAT splitters. The issue is that people with numbers like Mark don't ED because they don't need to. No one from 2008-11 on LSN that applied ED reported any money, based on that applicant search above. But there weren't any with 175 and a >3.7 GPA or a 3.95 and a >170 LSAT.
Sooo. I don't think either of us knows for sure, but it doesn't look good in my book. I heard from a UVA student that the Dean said he gave 2 EDers a scholly last year.


read what i wrote above - she didn't report it. that sounds right though, because all these people have borderline #s (maybe with the exception of the first person)

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby lzyovrachievr » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:16 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:I agree with you that there is not much proof at all.

I get your points. Let's agree on this and call it a day? :)

r6_philly
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby r6_philly » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:16 pm

People who were accepted ED may not update their profiles.

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LLB2JD
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby LLB2JD » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:18 pm

r6_philly wrote:People who were accepted ED may not update their profiles.


+1. For this most part, they are done with their respective cycles and have moved on to other more fun things in life.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby paulinaporizkova » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:18 pm

r6_philly wrote:People who were accepted ED may not update their profiles.


yes, that's just what i said, and i agree. they just fall off the LSN face of the earth because they don't need to use the site anymore

paulinaporizkova
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby paulinaporizkova » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:18 pm

lzyovrachievr wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:I agree with you that there is not much proof at all.

I get your points. Let's agree on this and call it a day? :)


TRUCE!

I think we're both gonna make good lawyers :wink:

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby lzyovrachievr » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:19 pm

r6_philly wrote:People who were accepted ED may not update their profiles.

Yea, that's what Paulina noted above. Does UVA give out schollys besides what is given at acceptance? (I'd assume so, but I haven't heard.)

I'm still cool with agreeing that we're mostly speculating. I don't know how they'd handle a 173+, 3.8+ EDer.

ETA: TRUCE :mrgreen:

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby lzyovrachievr » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:21 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:I think we're both gonna make good lawyers :wink:

Ahahaha.

Dear UVA, please let us in, you will find the attached transcript of a discussion in the UVA Admittance thread. As it clearly indicates, we would be good lawyers. So seriously, let us in. Also, money is nice.

Thanks,
Paulina & Lzy

paulinaporizkova
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby paulinaporizkova » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:22 pm

lzyovrachievr wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:I think we're both gonna make good lawyers :wink:

Ahahaha.

Dear UVA, please let us in, you will find the attached transcript of a discussion in the UVA Admittance thread. As it clearly indicates, we would be good lawyers. So seriously, let us in. Also, money is nice.

Thanks,
Paulina & Lzy


lol i already got in! i just troll this thread because i have nothing better to do while slacking off at work. though i checked your LSN and you've got me beat overall i think, so congrats :)

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby lzyovrachievr » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:26 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:lol i already got in! i just troll this thread because i have nothing better to do while slacking off at work. though i checked your LSN and you've got me beat overall i think, so congrats :)

Jeez, way to be mean to the rest of us. :wink: I don't believe UVA is convinced that I love them yet. Which is all well and good, I suppose; I like them, but I don't love them yet, and UMich is being awful nice to me.

r6_philly
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby r6_philly » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:28 pm

lzyovrachievr wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:lol i already got in! i just troll this thread because i have nothing better to do while slacking off at work. though i checked your LSN and you've got me beat overall i think, so congrats :)

Jeez, way to be mean to the rest of us. :wink: I don't believe UVA is convinced that I love them yet. Which is all well and good, I suppose; I like them, but I don't love them yet, and UMich is being awful nice to me.


Go back to CCN :x

:lol:

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby lzyovrachievr » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:32 pm

r6_philly wrote:Go back to CCN :x

:lol:

*Walks off with tail between legs*

No seriously guys, you're stuck with me until they answer me! :P

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LLB2JD
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Re: UVa. Regular Decision

Postby LLB2JD » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:36 pm

lzyovrachievr wrote:
r6_philly wrote:Go back to CCN :x

:lol:

*Walks off with tail between legs*

No seriously guys, you're stuck with me until they answer me! :P



LoLz




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