Yale 2011 applicants

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LinzerTorte
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby LinzerTorte » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:24 pm

JeNeRegretteRien wrote:
nadopretz wrote:All this discussion about when we hear back makes me wonder if the people who are hearing back are all yeses, or if some people have already heard nos? As a non-traditional married applicant, we are trying to make some rough joint decisions, and I would love to know how encouraged (if at all) I should be by the fact that a no with my name on it hasn't yet come down the pike.


I'm in the same position as you, nadopretz, and wondering the same thing, so I feel your pain.

LinzerTorte is right: There have been people that have been dinged (a wave went out around Valentine's Day). I don't know if there have been any more since then, or at least, if there have been, they've been below the TLS/LSN/Twitter radar.

When I did my little "average days to decision" (again using the really incomplete and super noisy but all-we-got LSN data set), I also looked at whether the admit rate for "long-review-time" candidates was any higher than the for the population as a whole. Looking for a little hope and what not. There were no meaningful differences in the data I had, which may mean (as I think Dean AR actually said somewhere) that when you hear back (or in our case, don't) doesn't mean THAT much. Or it may just be the super noisy data set. It seems possible to craft reasonable explanations either way.

I mean it's certainly not bad to have missed the first waves of dings, since technically it leaves the hope alive. And I suppose it could mean (depending on complete date), that you made it into faculty review (which is a big step). My joking in my last post aside, I really do think most of these faculty members have a billion other also-super-important things going on (and different work styles), so there must be some (and maybe substantial) variation in when Faculty-Review-Groups come back with their answers.

I suspect a lot of us will find out in the next few weeks, one way or the other. Sigh.


Especially when you only missed it because you hadn't submitted yet!!!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

nadopretz
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby nadopretz » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:01 pm

Thanks JeNeRegretteRien. Are you and your spouse both applying to law school or two different school types? I have been trying to keep out of these forums because I find them stressful, but recently decided that few things could be more stressful than the situation we are already in. Perhaps I should either find or establish a thread about couples applying...

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tikiman6
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby tikiman6 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:30 pm

JeNeRegretteRien wrote:
CastleRock wrote:
tikiman6 wrote:
Oh great. 65 with a deviation of up to 108. (Not standard deviation)

Thanks for the info, I guess what we take away from this is becoming complete means only that your application will now be under review, and almost nothing about when it ceases to be so.

remember that this takes into account people who apply very early. It's not really that predictive of anything.


I think that was kind of his point, no?

Like all things YLS, they'll get back to you when they do, and all you know is that it will be whenever they're damn good and ready (the price of holistic review). Some early applicants hear back early, some don't. Some late applicants hear back early, some don't. It depends, in part, on whether some professor lost your file under their car seat or simply can't be bothered to read their files until the very last minute, or Dean AR is in an especially good mood and loves your file on the first read. I think it may be a mostly random-walk when you hear back.

[Edited for clarity, and for a mobile device induced editing fail.]


Yeah, that was my point. Basically for every day that goes by for all of us in limbo, it is good in that we have not yet been dinged, yet does not mean we have a greater chance of getting in, nor does it inform us about when we will receive a decision. We are in an epistemic prison.

The Real Jack McCoy
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby The Real Jack McCoy » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:38 pm

Anyone else--especially us January sends--anxious about tomorrow/coming week? Going off of last year, we should get some admits followed by a huge whack of rejection letters.

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jtemp320
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby jtemp320 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:45 pm

Got it - we'll hear when we'll hear they are Yale etc etc

but that still means before April 30 right?

nadopretz
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby nadopretz » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:22 pm

The Real Jack McCoy wrote:Anyone else--especially us January sends--anxious about tomorrow/coming week? Going off of last year, we should get some admits followed by a huge whack of rejection letters.

How do they usually notify rejections-- snail mail or email?

Confused7
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby Confused7 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:25 pm

nadopretz wrote:
The Real Jack McCoy wrote:Anyone else--especially us January sends--anxious about tomorrow/coming week? Going off of last year, we should get some admits followed by a huge whack of rejection letters.

How do they usually notify rejections-- snail mail or email?


I think it's snail mail, at least for domestic applicants.

jrose5
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby jrose5 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:23 pm

Confused7 wrote:
nadopretz wrote:
The Real Jack McCoy wrote:Anyone else--especially us January sends--anxious about tomorrow/coming week? Going off of last year, we should get some admits followed by a huge whack of rejection letters.

How do they usually notify rejections-- snail mail or email?


I think it's snail mail, at least for domestic applicants.


Yup.

Everytime I see a small white envelope in my school mailbox, my heart begins to race. I've never been happier to receive junk mail in my life.

Thanks, YLS. I still love you, though.

thecynic69
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby thecynic69 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:49 pm

Just got my complete email (and probably the last communication containing non-bad news from Yale). Maybe I don't know an exception to the rules concerning collective nouns, but doesn't Yale's complete email contain a typo:

"Your application for admission to Yale Law School is complete. We will communicate with you again when a decision has been reached.

Because the entire faculty ARE involved in reviewing applications, our review process naturally takes longer than that of most schools. The majority of our decisions are made in February, March, and April. We ask that you please do not contact the Admissions Office to inquire about the status of your application; frequent phone and email inquiries delay consideration of applications.

Thank you for your interest in Yale. We look forward to reviewing your application."

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angua
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby angua » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:09 pm

thecynic69 wrote:Just got my complete email (and probably the last communication containing non-bad news from Yale). Maybe I don't know an exception to the rules concerning collective nouns, but doesn't Yale's complete email contain a typo:

"Your application for admission to Yale Law School is complete. We will communicate with you again when a decision has been reached.

Because the entire faculty ARE involved in reviewing applications, our review process naturally takes longer than that of most schools. The majority of our decisions are made in February, March, and April. We ask that you please do not contact the Admissions Office to inquire about the status of your application; frequent phone and email inquiries delay consideration of applications.

Thank you for your interest in Yale. We look forward to reviewing your application."


Faculty is semantically plural, if not syntactically, and in fact in British English and other dialects, it's treated as though it were both. Here, I think the semantics overrides American English convention: Since Yale is emphasizing that numerous members of the faculty are involved in reviewing applications, they highlight this plurality by using are. It's not a typo, by any means; if anything it is a stylistic choice to remind you that it's going to take aeons because more than just a few people are poring meticulously over your 250. :)

Sandrew
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby Sandrew » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:15 pm

thecynic69 wrote:Just got my complete email (and probably the last communication containing non-bad news from Yale). Maybe I don't know an exception to the rules concerning collective nouns, but doesn't Yale's complete email contain a typo:

"Your application for admission to Yale Law School is complete. We will communicate with you again when a decision has been reached.

Because the entire faculty ARE involved in reviewing applications, our review process naturally takes longer than that of most schools. The majority of our decisions are made in February, March, and April. We ask that you please do not contact the Admissions Office to inquire about the status of your application; frequent phone and email inquiries delay consideration of applications.

Thank you for your interest in Yale. We look forward to reviewing your application."

There is an exception. A collective noun takes on the singular verb when acting as a single body or represent one group. E.g. "The faculty is large." You are right in thinking that this is the more typical case. However, a collective noun takes on the plural when each member of the collective group is acting individually. E.g. "The faculty are bickering over whom to admit."

So which is it in the above email? I'm inclined to agree with you that it should have been singular. The faculty is united in its involvement in reviewing applications, so it should be treated singular subject.

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angua
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby angua » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:37 pm

Sandrew wrote:So which is it in the above email? I'm inclined to agree with you that it should have been singular. The faculty is united in its involvement in reviewing applications, so it should be treated singular subject.


I'd argue that they are not united; any given review committee isn't even allowed to know who else is on the committee, and each may evaluate a given file by their own completely idiosyncratic criteria, so the faculty are definitely acting as individuals here. If they were, say, sitting at a table, reviewing a single file collaboratively, then it'd be more likely that Yale would have said faculty is.

thecynic69
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby thecynic69 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:40 pm

Sandrew wrote:
thecynic69 wrote:Just got my complete email (and probably the last communication containing non-bad news from Yale). Maybe I don't know an exception to the rules concerning collective nouns, but doesn't Yale's complete email contain a typo:

"Your application for admission to Yale Law School is complete. We will communicate with you again when a decision has been reached.

Because the entire faculty ARE involved in reviewing applications, our review process naturally takes longer than that of most schools. The majority of our decisions are made in February, March, and April. We ask that you please do not contact the Admissions Office to inquire about the status of your application; frequent phone and email inquiries delay consideration of applications.

Thank you for your interest in Yale. We look forward to reviewing your application."

There is an exception. A collective noun takes on the singular verb when acting as a single body or represent one group. E.g. "The faculty is large." You are right in thinking that this is the more typical case. However, a collective noun takes on the plural when each member of the collective group is acting individually. E.g. "The faculty are bickering over whom to admit."

So which is it in the above email? I'm inclined to agree with you that it should have been singular. The faculty is united in its involvement in reviewing applications, so it should be treated singular subject.


My bad, thought this exception was clearly out due to the word entire (entire cannot be used in such cases, and I think it only takes the singular--the entire group is okay, but not ?the entire groups?).

thecynic69
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby thecynic69 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:43 pm

angua wrote:
thecynic69 wrote:Just got my complete email (and probably the last communication containing non-bad news from Yale). Maybe I don't know an exception to the rules concerning collective nouns, but doesn't Yale's complete email contain a typo:

"Your application for admission to Yale Law School is complete. We will communicate with you again when a decision has been reached.

Because the entire faculty ARE involved in reviewing applications, our review process naturally takes longer than that of most schools. The majority of our decisions are made in February, March, and April. We ask that you please do not contact the Admissions Office to inquire about the status of your application; frequent phone and email inquiries delay consideration of applications.

Thank you for your interest in Yale. We look forward to reviewing your application."


Faculty is semantically plural, if not syntactically, and in fact in British English and other dialects, it's treated as though it were both. Here, I think the semantics overrides American English convention: Since Yale is emphasizing that numerous members of the faculty are involved in reviewing applications, they highlight this plurality by using are. It's not a typo, by any means; if anything it is a stylistic choice to remind you that it's going to take aeons because more than just a few people are poring meticulously over your 250. :)


Err, I'm not buying it. British English (and other dialects) has (have) nothing to do with American English (I'll assume Yale was trying to speak American English...).

thecynic69
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby thecynic69 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:48 pm

angua wrote:
Sandrew wrote:So which is it in the above email? I'm inclined to agree with you that it should have been singular. The faculty is united in its involvement in reviewing applications, so it should be treated singular subject.


I'd argue that they are not united; any given review committee isn't even allowed to know who else is on the committee, and each may evaluate a given file by their own completely idiosyncratic criteria, so the faculty are definitely acting as individuals here. If they were, say, sitting at a table, reviewing a single file collaboratively, then it'd be more likely that Yale would have said faculty is.


While I'm at it, I reject the plural use of collective nouns; I think it is okay only in colloquial speech. Collective nouns are just that...collective. In the example given above (The faculty are bickering over whom to admit), the proper thing to say is "The members of the faculty are bickering over whom to admit"; to speak otherwise is to 'decollectivize' the collective noun.

That's it for tonight I think, I'm off to the bars.

juliachild-ish
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby juliachild-ish » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:55 pm

And this is why the Yale thread is awesome! I love discussions of grammar.

(I am not being sarcastic; I really do enjoy them.)

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angua
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby angua » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:56 pm

English of all varieties has bleeding of collective noun vs. singular noun syntax, as well as mass/count noun crossover. Much as Strunk and White would love for it to be otherwise, there are simply no hard-and-fast rules for these things, and much as Chomsky would love for it to be otherwise, form can sometimes be altered by meaning. Which is to say, this is probably a totally pointless debate.

#ex-linguistics Ph.D. candidate who still gets pissy about prescriptivist bull

edit: I do agree with whoever said that the modifier entire throws a bit of a curveball, because it makes the reader adjust their semantic expectations on the fly. Still, it's not ungrammatical, just uncommon in the writing of the States. Uncommon != ungrammatical. Buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo is fucking weird and uncommon, but it's still a grammatical sentence. Same as The horse raced past the barn fell; it causes you to re-assess your semantic interpretation of words mid-thought, but that does not invalidate its grammaticality.

P.S. are those not great sentences? (language nerdery ftw)

thecynic69
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby thecynic69 » Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:55 am

angua wrote:English of all varieties has bleeding of collective noun vs. singular noun syntax, as well as mass/count noun crossover. Much as Strunk and White would love for it to be otherwise, there are simply no hard-and-fast rules for these things, and much as Chomsky would love for it to be otherwise, form can sometimes be altered by meaning. Which is to say, this is probably a totally pointless debate.

#ex-linguistics Ph.D. candidate who still gets pissy about prescriptivist bull

edit: I do agree with whoever said that the modifier entire throws a bit of a curveball, because it makes the reader adjust their semantic expectations on the fly. Still, it's not ungrammatical, just uncommon in the writing of the States. Uncommon != ungrammatical. Buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo is fucking weird and uncommon, but it's still a grammatical sentence. Same as The horse raced past the barn fell; it causes you to re-assess your semantic interpretation of words mid-thought, but that does not invalidate its grammaticality.

P.S. are those not great sentences? (language nerdery ftw)


+1

Btw, the comment on the word entire was me (I comment in my now drunken state)

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dot
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby dot » Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:22 am

angua wrote:
Sandrew wrote:So which is it in the above email? I'm inclined to agree with you that it should have been singular. The faculty is united in its involvement in reviewing applications, so it should be treated singular subject.


I'd argue that they are not united; any given review committee isn't even allowed to know who else is on the committee, and each may evaluate a given file by their own completely idiosyncratic criteria, so the faculty are definitely acting as individuals here. If they were, say, sitting at a table, reviewing a single file collaboratively, then it'd be more likely that Yale would have said faculty is.


My first reaction in general was that they're not united in reviewing apps because they can have extremely different reviews, as you highlight.

But, looking at this particular sentence again, they are all (+1 on "entire" use) "involved". And this seems to be unifying.

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angua
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby angua » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:45 am

Dear Yale,
Please hurry up and reject me. It's like ripping off a bandage - the slower you do it, the more pain it causes. If my love is unrequited, stop stringing me along. Let me get on with my life.

Respectfully yours,
Angua

hoopla14
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby hoopla14 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:30 pm

Wow, radio silence this weekend, huh? Was hoping for a few more (TLS/LSN) admits.

ExpectLess
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby ExpectLess » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:30 pm

They'll call someone at two in the morning tonight. Just for shock value.

JeNeRegretteRien
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby JeNeRegretteRien » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:09 pm

nadopretz wrote:Thanks JeNeRegretteRien. Are you and your spouse both applying to law school or two different school types? I have been trying to keep out of these forums because I find them stressful, but recently decided that few things could be more stressful than the situation we are already in. Perhaps I should either find or establish a thread about couples applying...


I didn't catch you were both applying, that is a special kind of difficult joint-decision.

We're balancing the more mundane joint decisions around school (and by extension career) for me with my wife's already established career; trying to figure out how to maximize momentum on both and what not. But similarly, hard to make much forward progress on those decisions w/o hearing back from YLS (one way or the other). We knew coming into the process that some time in limbo would be inevitable, but that doesn't seem to be much of a salve for our impatience / anxiety now that we're here... :)

nadopretz
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby nadopretz » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:14 pm

JeNeRegretteRien wrote:
nadopretz wrote:Thanks JeNeRegretteRien. Are you and your spouse both applying to law school or two different school types? I have been trying to keep out of these forums because I find them stressful, but recently decided that few things could be more stressful than the situation we are already in. Perhaps I should either find or establish a thread about couples applying...


I didn't catch you were both applying, that is a special kind of difficult joint-decision.

We're balancing the more mundane joint decisions around school (and by extension career) for me with my wife's already established career; trying to figure out how to maximize momentum on both and what not. But similarly, hard to make much forward progress on those decisions w/o hearing back from YLS (one way or the other). We knew coming into the process that some time in limbo would be inevitable, but that doesn't seem to be much of a salve for our impatience / anxiety now that we're here... :)


I am really sorry for your limbo angst, it is not easy no matter what the cause. We were prepared for limbo where neither knows, and the disappointment when one to gets in and the other does not, but we were ill prepared for the limbo where one gets in and the other doesn't know (for months!). I seriously appreciate that the schools are still considering me, but am concerned for our future, as well as for applicants on the waitlist etc at schools that my husband has been accepted to but can't accept or decline until we hear about me. For those counting the number on the YLS facebook group, I can tell you there is one more accepted student who hasn't joined, strictly because we are trying to manage our decision-making process rather privately.

I am starting to get very worried this is going to turn into a big big mess at the end of the day. Any thoughts about sending a letter or making a call that very politely informs the schools of the impending "I'm coming/not" deadlines (which may very well include their school's deadline) and asks for consideration for accelerated decision making? Again, would try to be as humble and polite as possible. I am contemplating taking action sometime next week to give them a heads up in advance of the April 15th deadlines.

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Knock
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby Knock » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:39 pm

Complete today finally.




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