Yale 2011 applicants

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ExpectLess
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby ExpectLess » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:49 pm

tgir wrote:The Facebook group count is at 189! Any hope left?


To add a sliver of anecdotal hope: the only person I knew on the Yale WL last year was admitted in June. Fat lady ain't singing yet.

And yeah, October applicant hanging in there, here.

JeNeRegretteRien
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby JeNeRegretteRien » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:53 pm

tgir wrote:The Facebook group count is at 189! Any hope left?


Last year they accepted 270 people, so I think there's plenty of hope left. Ostensibly the FB group includes some deferments (but also doesn't include everyone admitted), so I suspect they still have a lot of offers left to give out (50? 75?).

Oh, and I went complete in Autumn. Still hanging in there.

[Edit for clarity and this source: 270 admits number is from LSAC.]

notanumber
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby notanumber » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:01 pm

FWIW, last year's group hit 262 so I'm sure there are a good number of admits left to be called.

JeNeRegretteRien
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby JeNeRegretteRien » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:04 pm

notanumber wrote:FWIW, last year's group hit 262 so I'm sure there are a good number of admits left to be called.


That IS good to know. Thanks, notanumber! :D

Zatarra
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby Zatarra » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:07 pm

notanumber wrote:FWIW, last year's group hit 262 so I'm sure there are a good number of admits left to be called.


Hah, well alright then, I suppose I can keep just a wee bit more hope alive!

ams
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby ams » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:43 pm

194! And I met someone who was admitted but isn't on the group, so 195 technically.

yale2011
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby yale2011 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:46 am

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Last edited by yale2011 on Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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suspicious android
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby suspicious android » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:02 am

yale2011 wrote:Apps down 16.5% this year:

http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2011/ ... tion-fall/


If I get in because of some 1-year statistical fluke and they tell me to my face that normally they'd auto-reject me and they're really upset they need to admit me, I will be so completely fine with that.

d34d9823
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby d34d9823 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:19 am

suspicious android wrote:
yale2011 wrote:Apps down 16.5% this year:

http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2011/ ... tion-fall/


If I get in because of some 1-year statistical fluke and they tell me to my face that normally they'd auto-reject me and they're really upset they need to admit me, I will be so completely fine with that.

subtle
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby subtle » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:22 am

suspicious android wrote:
yale2011 wrote:Apps down 16.5% this year:

http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2011/ ... tion-fall/


If I get in because of some 1-year statistical fluke and they tell me to my face that normally they'd auto-reject me and they're really upset they need to admit me, I will be so completely fine with that.


+ a million

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zabagabe
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby zabagabe » Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:02 am

subtle wrote:
suspicious android wrote:
yale2011 wrote:Apps down 16.5% this year:

http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2011/ ... tion-fall/


If I get in because of some 1-year statistical fluke and they tell me to my face that normally they'd auto-reject me and they're really upset they need to admit me, I will be so completely fine with that.


+ a million


I bet it's the new dean's certificates. That could easily deter 300-400 people from applying. I might be crazy, but the admitted students group seems much younger (i.e. more college seniors). I wouldn't be at all surprised if the composition of their applicants has changed measurably for this past cycle...

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suspicious android
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby suspicious android » Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:18 am

[quote="zabagabe]I bet it's the new dean's certificates. That could easily deter 300-400 people from applying. I might be crazy, but the admitted students group seems much younger (i.e. more college seniors). I wouldn't be at all surprised if the composition of their applicants has changed measurably for this past cycle...[/quote]

I could never figure out why any school would want to require dean's certs, since volume of apps is part of the metric of USNW's rankings. It seems like there's a significant amount to lose, but what is the upside? How many people who send in an app actually end up getting dinged due to something shady uncovered by a dean's cert?

chasgoose
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby chasgoose » Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:24 am

suspicious android wrote:[


Well Stanford also requires them, so it probably can't hurt Yale that much. FWIW I only applied to Stanford despite the fact that my Dean's office is less than a block from YLS.

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zabagabe
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby zabagabe » Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:33 am

suspicious android wrote:I could never figure out why any school would want to require dean's certs, since volume of apps is part of the metric of USNW's rankings. It seems like there's a significant amount to lose, but what is the upside? How many people who send in an app actually end up getting dinged due to something shady uncovered by a dean's cert?


Yeah, I found it very puzzling. I'd can't imagine more than one person last year was later dismissed for fraud... (although funny story, someone pretended to be a deferred student this year and hung out and crashed YLS events until she was caught like halfway through the year!)

chasgoose wrote:Well Stanford also requires them, so it probably can't hurt Yale that much. FWIW I only applied to Stanford despite the fact that my Dean's office is less than a block from YLS.


And it's much more onerous than Stanford's, because you have to get one from EVERY institution at which your pursued a degree. In my case, I had to get FOUR. I'm sure I'm a total outlier, but it was a lot of extra work, coupled with the four transcripts...

nadopretz
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby nadopretz » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:07 am

zabagabe wrote:
suspicious android wrote:I could never figure out why any school would want to require dean's certs, since volume of apps is part of the metric of USNW's rankings. It seems like there's a significant amount to lose, but what is the upside? How many people who send in an app actually end up getting dinged due to something shady uncovered by a dean's cert?


Yeah, I found it very puzzling. I'd can't imagine more than one person last year was later dismissed for fraud... (although funny story, someone pretended to be a deferred student this year and hung out and crashed YLS events until she was caught like halfway through the year!)

chasgoose wrote:Well Stanford also requires them, so it probably can't hurt Yale that much. FWIW I only applied to Stanford despite the fact that my Dean's office is less than a block from YLS.


And it's much more onerous than Stanford's, because you have to get one from EVERY institution at which your pursued a degree. In my case, I had to get FOUR. I'm sure I'm a total outlier, but it was a lot of extra work, coupled with the four transcripts...


I was in there with you -- getting all four was painful, especially from that community college where I took two classes mostly for fun. When I asked them about dean's certs at the beginning of the app process they told me that Stanford asks for just your undergrad during the applications process, and that Harvard asks for all possible after you accept, so Yale decided to combine those two ideas and ask for all during the application process.

JeNeRegretteRien
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby JeNeRegretteRien » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:19 am

nadopretz wrote:
zabagabe wrote:
suspicious android wrote:I could never figure out why any school would want to require dean's certs, since volume of apps is part of the metric of USNW's rankings. It seems like there's a significant amount to lose, but what is the upside? How many people who send in an app actually end up getting dinged due to something shady uncovered by a dean's cert?


Yeah, I found it very puzzling. I'd can't imagine more than one person last year was later dismissed for fraud... (although funny story, someone pretended to be a deferred student this year and hung out and crashed YLS events until she was caught like halfway through the year!)

chasgoose wrote:Well Stanford also requires them, so it probably can't hurt Yale that much. FWIW I only applied to Stanford despite the fact that my Dean's office is less than a block from YLS.


And it's much more onerous than Stanford's, because you have to get one from EVERY institution at which your pursued a degree. In my case, I had to get FOUR. I'm sure I'm a total outlier, but it was a lot of extra work, coupled with the four transcripts...


I was in there with you -- getting all four was painful, especially from that community college where I took two classes mostly for fun. When I asked them about dean's certs at the beginning of the app process they told me that Stanford asks for just your undergrad during the applications process, and that Harvard asks for all possible after you accept, so Yale decided to combine those two ideas and ask for all during the application process.


Actually, HLS only requires them from schools where you actually received a degree, so YLS goes a step further. I also had to get like four, and it held my app for like an extra 4-6 weeks after it was otherwise complete [EDIT: on second thought it was only 1-2 weeks :oops: ]. It's Yale's process to run, but it did seem like a bit much to ask for as part of just the application process.

[Edited for correction, and quote fail]

Sandrew
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby Sandrew » Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:38 pm

suspicious android wrote:I could never figure out why any school would want to require dean's certs, since volume of apps is part of the metric of USNW's rankings. It seems like there's a significant amount to lose, but what is the upside? How many people who send in an app actually end up getting dinged due to something shady uncovered by a dean's cert?

While it might not be a winning strategy for a school looking to boost the number of applicants, I can see how an institution like Yale might see this as advantage. If you're confident that you can build a qualified class anyway, even with fewer applications, you may look to filter out some of the less serious candidates. For Yale, winnowing down the applicant pool may be particularly attractive in light of their unconventional faculty review process, which is especially burdensome on high-cost resources (i.e. law professors). Saving on constrained resources is one clear benefit of increasing the burden of application, but it obviously would need to be weighed against the opportunity cost of unintentionally filtering-out some highly qualified candidates. The more obvious benefit of this tack--being able to identify or filter-out applicants that have blemishes on their Deans' Certifications--strikes me as minor at the margin. But this is just a gut sense; I don't have any data.

Still, even if the theory is correct that Yale is looking to deter some would-be applicants, this alone does not explain the Dean's Certification requirement when a simpler and equally effective alternative--i.e. raising the application fee--is available. Interestingly, the certification requirement, like the 250-word essay requirement, could be used to increase the burden of applying in a progressive fashion. The burden of compiling and submitting an application has both a financial component and a time-and-effort component. A flat application fee is clearly regressive--that is, it is a greater relative burden on applicants with lesser financial means. But as the non-financial component becomes more burdensome (more essays, certification requirements, etc.), this increased burden is arguably progressive--that is, its cost is borne more heavily by those applicants for whom the opportunity costs of their time are greater. As the theory goes, wealthier applicants would tend to have a higher opportunity cost associated with their time. (Though we should recognize that this may not be true in extremis: a working poor applicant may have so little leisure time relative to a wealthy applicant that the inverse may be true.)

Food for thought.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:47 pm

Additional food for thought : Yale has been conned before & doesn't want to look foolish again.

"Fool me once...".

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Fresh
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby Fresh » Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:51 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Additional food for thought : Yale has been conned before & doesn't want to look foolish again.

"Fool me once...".


i lol'ed

nadopretz
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby nadopretz » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:12 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Additional food for thought : Yale has been conned before & doesn't want to look foolish again.

"Fool me once...".


Granted this was undergrad, but they have certainly been fooled before.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/10/education/10yale.html

chasgoose
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby chasgoose » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:15 pm

nadopretz wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Additional food for thought : Yale has been conned before & doesn't want to look foolish again.

"Fool me once...".


Granted this was undergrad, but they have certainly been fooled before.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/10/education/10yale.html


Akash may have lied, but he was genuinely smart (if also insane). He was by far the smartest kid in an English seminar I took with him.

notanumber
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby notanumber » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:28 pm

Sandrew wrote:
suspicious android wrote:I could never figure out why any school would want to require dean's certs, since volume of apps is part of the metric of USNW's rankings. It seems like there's a significant amount to lose, but what is the upside? How many people who send in an app actually end up getting dinged due to something shady uncovered by a dean's cert?

While it might not be a winning strategy for a school looking to boost the number of applicants, I can see how an institution like Yale might see this as advantage. If you're confident that you can build a qualified class anyway, even with fewer applications, you may look to filter out some of the less serious candidates. For Yale, winnowing down the applicant pool may be particularly attractive in light of their unconventional faculty review process, which is especially burdensome on high-cost resources (i.e. law professors). Saving on constrained resources is one clear benefit of increasing the burden of application, but it obviously would need to be weighed against the opportunity cost of unintentionally filtering-out some highly qualified candidates. The more obvious benefit of this tack--being able to identify or filter-out applicants that have blemishes on their Deans' Certifications--strikes me as minor at the margin. But this is just a gut sense; I don't have any data.

Still, even if the theory is correct that Yale is looking to deter some would-be applicants, this alone does not explain the Dean's Certification requirement when a simpler and equally effective alternative--i.e. raising the application fee--is available. Interestingly, the certification requirement, like the 250-word essay requirement, could be used to increase the burden of applying in a progressive fashion. The burden of compiling and submitting an application has both a financial component and a time-and-effort component. A flat application fee is clearly regressive--that is, it is a greater relative burden on applicants with lesser financial means. But as the non-financial component becomes more burdensome (more essays, certification requirements, etc.), this increased burden is arguably progressive--that is, its cost is borne more heavily by those applicants for whom the opportunity costs of their time are greater. As the theory goes, wealthier applicants would tend to have a higher opportunity cost associated with their time. (Though we should recognize that this may not be true in extremis: a working poor applicant may have so little leisure time relative to a wealthy applicant that the inverse may be true.)

Food for thought.


Interesting thoughts.

I'll echo what zagbae and a few others are saying - the dean's cert requirement disproportionately impacts older applicants, applicants in the military or those working/living overseas, and applicants who come from less "student-centered" (read: rich) universities. I suspect that the pool at YLS this year skews a bit younger and a bit more ivy-heavy.

I had to get 3 dean's certs from schools of various sorts. Getting my cert. from the super-rich school was incredibly simple. I just walked into an office, mentioned the word 'Yale' and they took my forms and processed them the same day for free. Getting it from my undergard (large state school) was more difficult and expensive. I had to bounce around a couple of different offices, have them dredge up my old enrollment forms, and pay them a not insignificant amount of money. Getting it from my community college was (is?) much more difficult. Nobody on the phone had any idea about what a "dean's cert" was. Frankly, I doubt they really understood what "yale" or "law school" were. They kept asking me if this was a court-ordered documentation. Eventually they had me send a SASE with a letter explaining what I needed. I'm not sure if it ever got sent out. If not, I suppose I'll drive over there next time I visit my family and try to get things sorted out in person.

I can see how dealing with this process would deter an applicant, especially one who has already been admitted to a top school or two. Because I suspect that getting a cert. from Yale is incredibly easy (and probably free), it may just be that the folk in admissions didn't think of what a hassle it would be for people from less ivy-esque backgrounds.

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NikaneOkie
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby NikaneOkie » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:49 pm

http://www.top-law-schools.com/images/d ... 0/Yale.jpg
looks like all sorts of bad news next week huh?

question: how do stats form waitlist admitted students work? if you're waitlisted do your stats not go into the US news reported stats? [edit: that is, if you're admitted after you're waitlisted]

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almightypush
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby almightypush » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:53 pm

notanumber wrote:
Sandrew wrote:
suspicious android wrote:I could never figure out why any school would want to require dean's certs, since volume of apps is part of the metric of USNW's rankings. It seems like there's a significant amount to lose, but what is the upside? How many people who send in an app actually end up getting dinged due to something shady uncovered by a dean's cert?

While it might not be a winning strategy for a school looking to boost the number of applicants, I can see how an institution like Yale might see this as advantage. If you're confident that you can build a qualified class anyway, even with fewer applications, you may look to filter out some of the less serious candidates. For Yale, winnowing down the applicant pool may be particularly attractive in light of their unconventional faculty review process, which is especially burdensome on high-cost resources (i.e. law professors). Saving on constrained resources is one clear benefit of increasing the burden of application, but it obviously would need to be weighed against the opportunity cost of unintentionally filtering-out some highly qualified candidates. The more obvious benefit of this tack--being able to identify or filter-out applicants that have blemishes on their Deans' Certifications--strikes me as minor at the margin. But this is just a gut sense; I don't have any data.

Still, even if the theory is correct that Yale is looking to deter some would-be applicants, this alone does not explain the Dean's Certification requirement when a simpler and equally effective alternative--i.e. raising the application fee--is available. Interestingly, the certification requirement, like the 250-word essay requirement, could be used to increase the burden of applying in a progressive fashion. The burden of compiling and submitting an application has both a financial component and a time-and-effort component. A flat application fee is clearly regressive--that is, it is a greater relative burden on applicants with lesser financial means. But as the non-financial component becomes more burdensome (more essays, certification requirements, etc.), this increased burden is arguably progressive--that is, its cost is borne more heavily by those applicants for whom the opportunity costs of their time are greater. As the theory goes, wealthier applicants would tend to have a higher opportunity cost associated with their time. (Though we should recognize that this may not be true in extremis: a working poor applicant may have so little leisure time relative to a wealthy applicant that the inverse may be true.)

Food for thought.


Interesting thoughts.

I'll echo what zagbae and a few others are saying - the dean's cert requirement disproportionately impacts older applicants, applicants in the military or those working/living overseas, and applicants who come from less "student-centered" (read: rich) universities. I suspect that the pool at YLS this year skews a bit younger and a bit more ivy-heavy.

I had to get 3 dean's certs from schools of various sorts. Getting my cert. from the super-rich school was incredibly simple. I just walked into an office, mentioned the word 'Yale' and they took my forms and processed them the same day for free. Getting it from my undergard (large state school) was more difficult and expensive. I had to bounce around a couple of different offices, have them dredge up my old enrollment forms, and pay them a not insignificant amount of money. Getting it from my community college was (is?) much more difficult. Nobody on the phone had any idea about what a "dean's cert" was. Frankly, I doubt they really understood what "yale" or "law school" were. They kept asking me if this was a court-ordered documentation. Eventually they had me send a SASE with a letter explaining what I needed. I'm not sure if it ever got sent out. If not, I suppose I'll drive over there next time I visit my family and try to get things sorted out in person.

I can see how dealing with this process would deter an applicant, especially one who has already been admitted to a top school or two. Because I suspect that getting a cert. from Yale is incredibly easy (and probably free), it may just be that the folk in admissions didn't think of what a hassle it would be for people from less ivy-esque backgrounds.


Hmm... in my case, I just mailed a cert (and a pre-addressed envelope) to my undergrad institution (also a large state school) and my community college. I didn't have to pay a thing for either one. Aside from the added delay in one's file going complete, I really don't see the huge deal with the dean's cert requirement. It's Yale. There are schools out there with far less prestige that subject their applicants to a more onerous application process, IMO (ex - I read how Brooklyn makes you write an addendum for every time you changed your major explaining why).

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NikaneOkie
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Re: Yale 2011 applicants

Postby NikaneOkie » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:47 pm

almightypush wrote:
Hmm... in my case, I just mailed a cert (and a pre-addressed envelope) to my undergrad institution (also a large state school) and my community college. I didn't have to pay a thing for either one. Aside from the added delay in one's file going complete, I really don't see the huge deal with the dean's cert requirement. It's Yale. There are schools out there with far less prestige that subject their applicants to a more onerous application process, IMO (ex - I read how Brooklyn makes you write an addendum for every time you changed your major explaining why).


I don't like hearing from those already admitted. it makes me sad... and jealous, which is lame b.c. I love the schools who have admitted me.




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