WUSTL 2011 Cycle Forum

[ktg808]

Speaking of Wash U mailings, when do admission packets typically arrive?

ditto. and i want my flash drive

[FAR262]

Finally IR after over 3 months at complete! Perhaps there is light at the end of the tunnel.

[Arbiter213]

Did every admitted student get an email from the director of Moot court?

[JenDarby]

Did every admitted student get an email from the director of Moot court?

I don't know if everyone did, but I did, so I imagine so.

[snichols16]

Did every admitted student get an email from the director of Moot court?

I think I got an email from everyone at the school including the janitor. He wanted to let me know how nice the bathrooms are -- spacious stalls for doing "work".

[simontemplar]

Did every admitted student get an email from the director of Moot court?

I don't know if everyone did, but I did, so I imagine so.

+1

[kk19131]

Did every admitted student get an email from the director of Moot court?

I think I got an email from everyone at the school including the janitor. He wanted to let me know how nice the bathrooms are -- spacious stalls for doing "work".

[Jeffro]

By any chance, has anyone that attended the first (late January) ASW received their travel reimbursement yet?

[kk19131]

WASH U:

I don't need emails about your minority students and trial advocacy program; I need you to respond to my scholarship request.

Haha, they didn't even give me a form response to mine.

Really?! Did you email the same people I did?

[JCougar]

FWIW:

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-gr ... aw-schools

Rank School Average Reputation Score (5.0=highest)
1. Harvard University 4.9
2. Stanford University 4.8
2. Yale University 4.8
4. Columbia University 4.7
4. University of Michigan--Ann Arbor 4.7
6. New York University 4.6
6. University of Virginia 4.6
8. Cornell University 4.5
8. Duke University 4.5
8. Northwestern University 4.5
8. University of California--Berkeley 4.5
8. University of Chicago 4.5
13. Georgetown University 4.4
13. University of Pennsylvania 4.4
15. Vanderbilt University 4.3
15. Washington University in St. Louis 4.3
17. University of Texas--Austin 4.2
18. Boston University 4.1
18. Emory University 4.1
18. University of California-Los Angeles 4.1
18. University of Minnesota-Twin Cities 4.1
18. University of Notre Dame 4.1
18. University of Southern California 4.1
18. Washington and Lee University 4.1
25. Boston College 4.0
25. University of Iowa 4.0
25. U. of North Carolina--Chapel Hill 4.0

[kk19131]

FWIW:

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-gr ... aw-schools

Rank School Average Reputation Score (5.0=highest)
1. Harvard University 4.9
2. Stanford University 4.8
2. Yale University 4.8
4. Columbia University 4.7
4. University of Michigan--Ann Arbor 4.7
6. New York University 4.6
6. University of Virginia 4.6
8. Cornell University 4.5
8. Duke University 4.5
8. Northwestern University 4.5
8. University of California--Berkeley 4.5
8. University of Chicago 4.5
13. Georgetown University 4.4
13. University of Pennsylvania 4.4
15. Vanderbilt University 4.3
15. Washington University in St. Louis 4.3
17. University of Texas--Austin 4.2
18. Boston University 4.1
18. Emory University 4.1
18. University of California-Los Angeles 4.1
18. University of Minnesota-Twin Cities 4.1
18. University of Notre Dame 4.1
18. University of Southern California 4.1
18. Washington and Lee University 4.1
25. Boston College 4.0
25. University of Iowa 4.0
25. U. of North Carolina--Chapel Hill 4.0

This seems kind of meaningless.

[columbia86]

Any recent offers of admission? When should we anticipate the next round of decisions?

[simontemplar]

FWIW:

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-gr ... aw-schools

Rank School Average Reputation Score (5.0=highest)
1. Harvard University 4.9
2. Stanford University 4.8
2. Yale University 4.8
4. Columbia University 4.7
4. University of Michigan--Ann Arbor 4.7
6. New York University 4.6
6. University of Virginia 4.6
8. Cornell University 4.5
8. Duke University 4.5
8. Northwestern University 4.5
8. University of California--Berkeley 4.5
8. University of Chicago 4.5
13. Georgetown University 4.4
13. University of Pennsylvania 4.4
15. Vanderbilt University 4.3
15. Washington University in St. Louis 4.3
17. University of Texas--Austin 4.2
18. Boston University 4.1
18. Emory University 4.1
18. University of California-Los Angeles 4.1
18. University of Minnesota-Twin Cities 4.1
18. University of Notre Dame 4.1
18. University of Southern California 4.1
18. Washington and Lee University 4.1
25. Boston College 4.0
25. University of Iowa 4.0
25. U. of North Carolina--Chapel Hill 4.0

This seems kind of meaningless.

IMO, I think that the opinions of 750 hiring partners and recruiters at top law firms is worth something. What is meaningless are rankings that factor in the number of books a law school has in its library!

Any predictions on how Wash U will fair in the 2012 rankings on March 15?

[kk19131]

FWIW:

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-gr ... aw-schools

Rank School Average Reputation Score (5.0=highest)
1. Harvard University 4.9
2. Stanford University 4.8
2. Yale University 4.8
4. Columbia University 4.7
4. University of Michigan--Ann Arbor 4.7
6. New York University 4.6
6. University of Virginia 4.6
8. Cornell University 4.5
8. Duke University 4.5
8. Northwestern University 4.5
8. University of California--Berkeley 4.5
8. University of Chicago 4.5
13. Georgetown University 4.4
13. University of Pennsylvania 4.4
15. Vanderbilt University 4.3
15. Washington University in St. Louis 4.3
17. University of Texas--Austin 4.2
18. Boston University 4.1
18. Emory University 4.1
18. University of California-Los Angeles 4.1
18. University of Minnesota-Twin Cities 4.1
18. University of Notre Dame 4.1
18. University of Southern California 4.1
18. Washington and Lee University 4.1
25. Boston College 4.0
25. University of Iowa 4.0
25. U. of North Carolina--Chapel Hill 4.0

This seems kind of meaningless.

IMO, I think that the opinions of 750 hiring partners and recruiters at top law firms is worth something. What is meaningless are rankings that factor in the number of books a law school has in its library!

Yet, this "reputation score" doesn't translate into actual Biglaw placement... Who cares what people think of you if they aren't going to hire you.

[simontemplar]

FWIW:

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-gr ... aw-schools

Rank School Average Reputation Score (5.0=highest)
1. Harvard University 4.9
2. Stanford University 4.8
2. Yale University 4.8
4. Columbia University 4.7
4. University of Michigan--Ann Arbor 4.7
6. New York University 4.6
6. University of Virginia 4.6
8. Cornell University 4.5
8. Duke University 4.5
8. Northwestern University 4.5
8. University of California--Berkeley 4.5
8. University of Chicago 4.5
13. Georgetown University 4.4
13. University of Pennsylvania 4.4
15. Vanderbilt University 4.3
15. Washington University in St. Louis 4.3
17. University of Texas--Austin 4.2
18. Boston University 4.1
18. Emory University 4.1
18. University of California-Los Angeles 4.1
18. University of Minnesota-Twin Cities 4.1
18. University of Notre Dame 4.1
18. University of Southern California 4.1
18. Washington and Lee University 4.1
25. Boston College 4.0
25. University of Iowa 4.0
25. U. of North Carolina--Chapel Hill 4.0

This seems kind of meaningless.

IMO, I think that the opinions of 750 hiring partners and recruiters at top law firms is worth something. What is meaningless are rankings that factor in the number of books a law school has in its library!

Yet, this "reputation score" doesn't translate into actual Biglaw placement... Who cares what people think of you if they aren't going to hire you.

Very true, but do you think that placement stats can be somewhat misleading as well? For example, do they account for the percentage of the class that actually wants to do big law? I would be surprised if the percentage of students with firm aspirations didn't vary from school to school.

[romothesavior]

I'll chime in...

I don't think the reputational scores are meaningless, but they are far less meaningful in choosing a law school than the NLJ placement numbers. It is great that partners think highly of us, but I think kk19131 is right as well... if they won't hire me, then what do I care what they think of me? But based on conversations I've had with the CSO and faculty, our school has never been good at placing into the big firms, so our NLJ placement lags our ranking. In time, it is very possible that our placement will catch up to our reputation and our USNWR ranking, but it may not happen in time for it to help any of you (or me, for that matter).

Also keep in mind that NLJ numbers are also way behind the times. The most recent NLJ stats were for the c/o 2010, who did their SA in 2009, who did their OCI in 2008. That's a pretty significant lag. Our school got a new CSO in 2008, which is when we started doing a LOT more big/mid-sized firm outreach. I think the efforts of Dean Spivey and his staff are paying off, but they won't be reflected in NLJ stats for another year or two. So while I hate when people on TLS call a school "a school on the rise," I actually do think that it could be the case with us in terms of NLJ 250 placement relative to our peers. I'm not going to go so far as to guarantee what I'm saying, because I have no idea for sure. Just take these insights for what they're worth.

And dammit, in this horrible economy, strands of hope are all I have to hold onto!

[purplebulldogs]

also from the article:

"The response rate was 14 percent."

so, this reflects the opinions of 105 people.

[simontemplar]

also from the article:

"The response rate was 14 percent."

so, this reflects the opinions of 105 people.

lol good point

[JCougar]

IMO, I think that the opinions of 750 hiring partners and recruiters at top law firms is worth something. What is meaningless are rankings that factor in the number of books a law school has in its library!

Yet, this "reputation score" doesn't translate into actual Biglaw placement... Who cares what people think of you if they aren't going to hire you.

Very true, but do you think that placement stats can be somewhat misleading as well? For example, do they account for the percentage of the class that actually wants to do big law? I would be surprised if the percentage of students with firm aspirations didn't vary from school to school.

The number of people who actually want Biglaw is less than TLS would have you believe (IOW, less than 100%). I'm not sure how many people that are motivated enough to grade into the top of the class have no goal of biglaw, but the prospect of some people simply not wanting Biglaw that could get it is valid enough not to ignore. There's some pretty smart people here that have a goal of doing criminal law or working in a medium-sized firm in their hometown.

But I don't think that really explains why WUSTL's Biglaw placement numbers lag behind its reputation. I think it's more an issue of the fact that the relationships between big firms and schools are long-term relationships, and don't change very quickly. Given that we've only been a T20 school for 4-5 years, it hasn't caught up yet. A firm is not going to stop doing OCI at your school because you dropped 10 spots in the US News rankings. Nor are they going to suddenly want to abandon another school and start an OCI program at your school simply because you jumped into the T20 for two years in a row. I think there's a significant lag time between a school's reputation and their NLJ 250 placement. What these numbers and the US News numbers (which are based mainly on reputation) suggest is that WUSTL has been doing fairly well in the reputation department...and in due time, the hiring will catch up. I'm pretty confident in the team we have right now, and in Dean Syverud, but I think their recent efforts have been sort of hamstrung by the legal recession. I do think that when the legal market recovers, though, we'll be one of the schools out there poised to make a solid recovery. Because while firms are loath to sever hiring relationships that have built up over time in favor of other schools based on US News movement, I think if they are adding schools based on broadening their OCI outreach (in the event of an economic recovery), they will be far more responsive to recent fluctuations in the perception of the quality of schools. In other words, because old relationships have already been severed due to the legal recession, the main disincentive to adapt to changes in reputation has been removed, and the legal crash will somewhat act as a "reset" button on OCI relationships.

It's my hope, at least. But I think it also makes some intuitive sense. The recent statements by Kirkland & Ellis and Sidley & Austin have been encouraging.

[harrijust86]

In Via Email 30 seconds ago. WINNING

[OklahomasOK]

In Via Email 30 seconds ago. WINNING

Congrats! Now I'm off to frantically check mine and refreshing every 30 second. #tigerblood

edit: when did you go IR? My status check was JUST updated to IR 3/8. I smell a WL!

[Flips88]

Still complete at 12/21. WUSTL, you're losing me.

[the_drake]

In via Email this afternoon. Applied on Feb. 15.

[columbia86]

In via Email this afternoon. Applied on Feb. 15.

Stats and dates please.

[dreakol]

In Via Email 30 seconds ago. WINNING

Congrats! Now I'm off to frantically check mine and refreshing every 30 second. #tigerblood

edit: when did you go IR? My status check was JUST updated to IR 3/8. I smell a WL!

I went from IR 3/4-3/8 IR

however, now the text at the top is missing.