Harvard 2011 Applicants

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Oracl3
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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby Oracl3 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:56 pm

juliachild-ish wrote:Well, I will say that March is definitely the worst month in New England...gross dirty snow everywhere, lots of gray and brown. That certainly didn't help my overall impression of the school. But I went to UG in MA, so I knew that going in, and tried to remind myself that the campus is often much prettier, at other times of year. Still, though, the vibe I got from the campus was cold and unfriendly. Not very scientific observations, I know, but part of the reason for visiting a school in person is to get the intangible "feel" of the place, am I right?

I think the ASW organizers did a great job convincing us that Harvard is an academically amazing place. The professors I met or heard speak blew me away (with one notable exception): they were funny, intelligent, engaging, and quite friendly.

But they really didn't do anything to convince me that Harvard is a place I want to spend three years of my life. By that I mean, there was really nothing fun scheduled (and no, the "pub trivia night" and "mingling at the Kong" events did not count as fun; they reminded me of the start of college, just a lot of socially awkward freshmen trying to impress each other). There was nothing that I encountered that made me excited to go there in any real way.

The other admitted students that I met there were, with a few exceptions, kind of boring and immature. Now, this is unfair because I'm a couple years out of school and have followed a very untraditional path through life, but still, they lived up to my stereotype of the Harvard student: driven, uninteresting, and smart in a very narrow way. For the most part, I didn't feel they were the kind of people I wanted to be surrounded by for three years. This is the first law school I've visited, so maybe I'm discovering something about the kind of people who go into the legal profession. I think that's partially true, but my parents are lawyers who I think lead interesting lives, as do many of their lawyer friends. So I would hope that doesn't necessarily have to be true about everyone at every law school. And also, I acknowledge that many of the older and more interesting applicants probably self-select away from attending these sorts of events. But most of the current students I met there fit that model as well. It's said on TLS that Harvard places much more emphasis on numbers and much less on softs than many of its peer schools (Yale, Stanford, Berkeley, etc.), and it seemed to me that the people I met at Harvard proved that to be true.

Despite Harvard's impressive emphasis on public interest advising and funding (which I was pleased with), many current students admitted that people ended up in private firms regardless, since finding public interest jobs is a lot of work and very competitive. They said private firms seemed to be the path of least resistance, and that the culture of the school still kind of pushed people in that direction. Working in BigLaw is kind of my idea of hell, so that wasn't encouraging.

I was also dismayed by the housing situation. Everyone seemed to agree that the dorms weren't very nice and weren't even much of a bargain, and that the same was true of most of the apartments near campus. Current students told me I would have to choose between living someplace nice and affordable far from campus, and therefore being sort of cut-off from student life, or paying a lot of money for a not-great option near campus. I have a large dog (see avatar), so the options for me seemed particularly limited, pricey, and far away.

As I mentioned, I went to UG in MA, and being at Harvard reminded me of many of the things I disliked about living in New England, but again, that's a personal reaction coming from a native WestCoaster.

Also, as I was walking around on Monday, a group of three or four students shouted at some of the other admitted applicants (we had folders and lanyards, so we were easily identifiable), "I wish I could just tell all of the admitted kids to NOT COME HERE! Don't do it!!" I know there are malcontents everywhere, but for me personally, it finished off what was already a mostly negative impression.

Overall, I am still impressed with Harvard as a school. Clearly, its academic power is undeniable, as is the intelligence and drive of its student body. I think it's a fantastic option for most people, but not for me. I guess that, in the end, I care less about prestige and more about quality of life and being around people who interest me.

Hope that's at least a little helpful!


It sounds a little harsh to write off the Harvard student body as boring and immature based on your brief interactions with a handful of admitted students. I try not to judge people or their intelligence without getting to know them first.

I think you will find that all ASWs you attend will be somewhat awkward and boring. If it is important for you to meet like-minded people or to have a fun time on these trips you should consider contacting interesting student groups in advance of the ASW. I know having lunch with a former debater and hanging out with the OUTLaws made my trip to Columbia more fun.

Anyone else have a JR1 scheduled for this week? I do not normally get nervous but Harvard is my first choice and I have already had a week to think about the call.
Last edited by Oracl3 on Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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law_monkey
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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby law_monkey » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:02 pm

Oracl3 wrote:
It sounds a little harsh to write off the Harvard student body as boring and immature based on your brief interactions with a handful of admitted students. I try not to judge people or their intelligence without getting to know them first.

I think you will find that all ASWs you attend will be somewhat awkward and boring. If it is important for you to meet like-minded people or to have a fun time on these trips you should consider contacting student groups you are interested in advance of the ASW. I know having lunch with a former debater and hanging out with the OUTLaws made my trip to Columbia more fun.

Anyone else have a JR1 scheduled for this week? I do not normally get nervous but Harvard is my first choice and I have already had a week to think about the call.


Actually there have been some ASWs that people are completely raving about. But I'm sure that there are a lot of people who came back from Harvard feeling that it's absolutely the school for them, and there are some people at those other ASWs who just didn't feel it. It's all just personal preference, except for the schools who really do put on crappy ASWs.

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gatorgirl4life
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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby gatorgirl4life » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:10 pm

law_monkey wrote:
Oracl3 wrote:
It sounds a little harsh to write off the Harvard student body as boring and immature based on your brief interactions with a handful of admitted students. I try not to judge people or their intelligence without getting to know them first.

I think you will find that all ASWs you attend will be somewhat awkward and boring. If it is important for you to meet like-minded people or to have a fun time on these trips you should consider contacting student groups you are interested in advance of the ASW. I know having lunch with a former debater and hanging out with the OUTLaws made my trip to Columbia more fun.

Anyone else have a JR1 scheduled for this week? I do not normally get nervous but Harvard is my first choice and I have already had a week to think about the call.


Actually there have been some ASWs that people are completely raving about. But I'm sure that there are a lot of people who came back from Harvard feeling that it's absolutely the school for them, and there are some people at those other ASWs who just didn't feel it. It's all just personal preference, except for the schools who really do put on crappy ASWs.


Yeah, I left NYU's ASW wishing that it were August already so I could start NOW. haha It's nice to know that whatever happens with the rest of my cycle, I'm already in at a school that I absolutely love. I'm sure most of the people lurking around in this thread are in the same position. :wink:

Confused7
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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby Confused7 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:18 pm

JR1 this week as well, and nervous as heck....HLS is most definitely my first choice, and it would be a dream come true if I could get in before the April ASW to check it out!

juliachild-ish
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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby juliachild-ish » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:37 pm

Oracl3 wrote:It sounds a little harsh to write off the Harvard student body as boring and immature based on your brief interactions with a handful of admitted students. I try not to judge people or their intelligence without getting to know them first.

I think you will find that all ASWs you attend will be somewhat awkward and boring. If it is important for you to meet like-minded people or to have a fun time on these trips you should consider contacting interesting student groups in advance of the ASW. I know having lunch with a former debater and hanging out with the OUTLaws made my trip to Columbia more fun.

Anyone else have a JR1 scheduled for this week? I do not normally get nervous but Harvard is my first choice and I have already had a week to think about the call.


Oh, I certainly didn't mean to impugn anyone's intelligence! Everyone I met there was uniformly smart, and that was evident from even brief interactions. And the immaturity issue is possibily due to my own misguided expectations--I'm two years out of UG, and took a year off before college. I keep hearing about how schools prefer students who've taken a year or two off, so I expected to meet mostly people out of college, and instead met, many, many people who were still in UG. Some of whom were too young to drink! Age is not an automatic criteria for maturity, obviously, but I found it a little hard to relate to people who are still in school, just because it is a different phase of life than the one I'm currently in. Perhaps immature was the wrong word, and again, this is just my personal bias. I am sure that, once at Harvard, it would be hard to distinguish between those who took time off and those who didn't. All I was trying to say was that I felt a little out of place, for multiple reasons.

tgir wrote:What exactly do you mean by "immature"?

I noticed that a lot of people had that timid, awkward, insecure look that you experience with college freshman, but I imagine that a lot of that can be explained just by the discomfort of traveling to a new place and suddenly being thrown in with a bunch of strangers and expected to simultaneously enjoy yourself and also scope out where you may be living and working for 3 years. That's gonna be the same at most, if not all, ASW's.

And by "boring," do you mean not entertaining in person, or lacking interesting life stories? I'd buy the former, but there were plenty of people with interesting life stories. If you thought otherwise, either you must not have asked or you must have a very high threshold for what you consider interesting.


You're right, it is the kind of situation which automatically makes everyone feel awkward and uncertain. And it's true that this is the first law school visit I've gone to, so I may revise this impression after going to another school or two. Perhaps I didn't meet the same interesting people there that you did--there were obviously a lot of people there. I just felt like everyone I talked to said, "Oh, I'm a paralegal," or, "I taught English abroad," or "I'm still in school and I'm a polisci major." Fine enough things, of course, and I probably didn't dig deep enough, but I expected more. I freely admit that my expectations were probably set too high. I'm intimidated by Harvard's reputation and expected to meet a ton of people who had done mindblowing things. Maybe they were there and I didn't find them, or maybe that's an unfair bar.

I am not trying to talk anyone out of going to Harvard! Not at all. I just mentioned that I had decided it wasn't for me, and since a couple people asked why, decided to elaborate. My reasons are probably not valid or applicable for most people.

terrybhs06
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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby terrybhs06 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:39 pm

SubwaySandwich wrote:
juliachild-ish wrote:Okay, so don't jump on me, but I really didn't enjoy my ASW at Harvard, this past weekend. But I think that was just me realizing that it wasn't a good fit for me in any way. The good news for the people still waiting is that I'll probably withdraw in a couple weeks, thus potentially freeing up a spot for someone who really wants to go! Best of luck to everyone!


I'm currently choosing between Harvard and some other schools, but am abroad and don't think I'll be able to attend ASW in April. If you have time, do you mind posting impressions of the ASW and the reasons for the non-enjoyment? Thanks!


I'll comment on this one. The ASW panels were long, tiring days and basically a lot of info we could of found online. The biggest problem I saw was that a lot of admitted students really misutilized the weekend. I mean, we know all that stuff (or at least we should) and shouldve been using the time to get a real feel for the incoming students as well as current students. Instead, I would say the vast majority of people said they hadnt slept a lot and went back to their hotel rooms between the formalized events. Overall, the admitted students kind of sucked but I got the feeling a lot were probably not coming to Harvard. The actual current students I met were great.

I actually enjoyed my time but I used it going out and actually communicating with students outside of the panels. I went to a few parties, drank with some current students and just generally did stuff beyond what they were force feeding us. All of the current students encouraged me to go to Harvard and said they loved it there. In the end, I got an excellent feel for the students/area and Im pretty confident that I would enjoy my time at HLS. I also asked everyone I could what they had lined up and got an idea of the job situation beyond the stuff I read on here. Unless my random sample was incredibly, incredibly biased then things made me a lot more comfortable with the debt on that front.

Point is, I think these ASWs depend more on you than the school. At the end of the day the biggest unknown is the location, the student body and the incoming students. There is nothing the administration can do to change those things. The dorms suck but all you had to do was look at the website to see that. The weather sucked, google that duh. The campus wasnt gorgeous, again.. pictures online. All of that was true but Im not choosing a school based on those factors.
Last edited by terrybhs06 on Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

terrybhs06
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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby terrybhs06 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:41 pm

juliachild-ish wrote:You're right, it is the kind of situation which automatically makes everyone feel awkward and uncertain. And it's true that this is the first law school visit I've gone to, so I may revise this impression after going to another school or two. Perhaps I didn't meet the same interesting people there that you did--there were obviously a lot of people there. I just felt like everyone I talked to said, "Oh, I'm a paralegal," or, "I taught English abroad," or "I'm still in school and I'm a polisci major." Fine enough things, of course, and I probably didn't dig deep enough, but I expected more. I freely admit that my expectations were probably set too high. I'm intimidated by Harvard's reputation and expected to meet a ton of people who had done mindblowing things. Maybe they were there and I didn't find them, or maybe that's an unfair bar.

I am not trying to talk anyone out of going to Harvard! Not at all. I just mentioned that I had decided it wasn't for me, and since a couple people asked why, decided to elaborate. My reasons are probably not valid or applicable for most people.


Those are all the most common things people who go to law school do. Any school with over 200 ppl is going to have tons and tons of those.

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mcweanis
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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby mcweanis » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:43 pm

terrybhs06 wrote: Overall, the admitted students kind of sucked but I got the feeling a lot were probably not coming to Harvard. The actual current students I met were great.


almost 70% of people who are admitted to harvard attend, so it can't be that unrepresentative a sample

terrybhs06
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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby terrybhs06 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:46 pm

mcweanis wrote:
terrybhs06 wrote: Overall, the admitted students kind of sucked but I got the feeling a lot were probably not coming to Harvard. The actual current students I met were great.


almost 70% of people who are admitted to harvard attend, so it can't be that unrepresentative a sample


I shouldve said the admitted students I met. I met a lot of people comparing harvard to yale that seemed to be taking this all wayyyyy too seriously. Btw, while I was at the airport I received my 3rd top-10 full scholarship(Berkeley) and I still feel pretty strongly that Im going to go to Harvard.

123kl
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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby 123kl » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:50 pm

terrybhs06 wrote:
juliachild-ish wrote:You're right, it is the kind of situation which automatically makes everyone feel awkward and uncertain. And it's true that this is the first law school visit I've gone to, so I may revise this impression after going to another school or two. Perhaps I didn't meet the same interesting people there that you did--there were obviously a lot of people there. I just felt like everyone I talked to said, "Oh, I'm a paralegal," or, "I taught English abroad," or "I'm still in school and I'm a polisci major." Fine enough things, of course, and I probably didn't dig deep enough, but I expected more. I freely admit that my expectations were probably set too high. I'm intimidated by Harvard's reputation and expected to meet a ton of people who had done mindblowing things. Maybe they were there and I didn't find them, or maybe that's an unfair bar.

I am not trying to talk anyone out of going to Harvard! Not at all. I just mentioned that I had decided it wasn't for me, and since a couple people asked why, decided to elaborate. My reasons are probably not valid or applicable for most people.


Those are all the most common things people who go to law school do. Any school with over 200 ppl is going to have tons and tons of those.



I met a variety of people.... paralegals at big firms, smaller crim defense firms, white house interns, people in other gtrad schools, undergrads, TFA peeps, even some people working in finance.

juliachild-ish
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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby juliachild-ish » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:53 pm

terrybhs06 wrote:Those are all the most common things people who go to law school do. Any school with over 200 ppl is going to have tons and tons of those.


Absolutely true. I just had the (perhaps mistaken belief) that the people at the very top schools (such as Harvard) would have a greater diversity in terms of interests and experiences.

terrybhs06
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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby terrybhs06 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:58 pm

juliachild-ish wrote:
terrybhs06 wrote:Those are all the most common things people who go to law school do. Any school with over 200 ppl is going to have tons and tons of those.


Absolutely true. I just had the (perhaps mistaken belief) that the people at the very top schools (such as Harvard) would have a greater diversity in terms of interests and experiences.


Yea but the people with those jobs likely wouldnt have taken off, especially if they were given shortish notice. I actually work in a corporate position and taking off kind of put my work back a bit.

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mcweanis
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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby mcweanis » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:10 pm

harvard is so huge, it can't be all super interesting people! especially since cool life experiences don't always lead to great numbers.

juliachild-ish
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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby juliachild-ish » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:13 pm

terrybhs06 wrote:
juliachild-ish wrote:
terrybhs06 wrote:Those are all the most common things people who go to law school do. Any school with over 200 ppl is going to have tons and tons of those.


Absolutely true. I just had the (perhaps mistaken belief) that the people at the very top schools (such as Harvard) would have a greater diversity in terms of interests and experiences.


Yea but the people with those jobs likely wouldnt have taken off, especially if they were given shortish notice. I actually work in a corporate position and taking off kind of put my work back a bit.


For sure, and I admitted in my initial write-up that the people who go to ASWs most likely skew younger and to certain jobs. I suppose I just don't care enough about the prestige of Harvard to now try to convince myself to go when it doesn't feel right for me. Plenty of people, many of whom have posted in this thread, will be completely happy and satisfied at Harvard, so why force myself into a spot that maybe one of them could have?

Good thing we have a great discussion going on to keep this thread active during the mid-week, non-JR1/JR2 lull!

fishdude
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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby fishdude » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:21 pm

I have to admit that the reason why I came away feeling good about HLS was that I had a number of conversations that were actually interesting and substantive with other admits, while my conversations with folks at Columbia and NYU events tended to be far more superficial (I also lucked into finding some fellow Old People pretty quickly). Could easily just be a function of who I randomly bumped into at each school, but I came away impressed with the student body, actually. Sorry for anyone who got stuck with the zombies, of which there were a fair number.
And as someone on the older side, I found a number of folks who had been out of college for 5+ years to hang out with during the weekend. Frankly, that's one of my concerns -- being preternaturally old at 28 -- and HLS made me feel more at ease than the other schools I've been checking out.
My one complaint was just that its length left me fried by Monday afternoon.

In general, as someone who has had firsthand experience at Harvard, there is a certain douchebaggery that pervades the whole campus. It can't be entirely avoided, but to a large degree it can be made tolerable if you maintain a sense of humor. My thinking is that while Harvard is far from the perfect place, it just opens too many doors to pass up. I'm pretty confident I can find some good people there -- I did this weekend, including both current students and admits.

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Non-Chalant1
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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:12 pm

law_monkey wrote:
Oracl3 wrote:
It sounds a little harsh to write off the Harvard student body as boring and immature based on your brief interactions with a handful of admitted students. I try not to judge people or their intelligence without getting to know them first.

I think you will find that all ASWs you attend will be somewhat awkward and boring. If it is important for you to meet like-minded people or to have a fun time on these trips you should consider contacting student groups you are interested in advance of the ASW. I know having lunch with a former debater and hanging out with the OUTLaws made my trip to Columbia more fun.

Anyone else have a JR1 scheduled for this week? I do not normally get nervous but Harvard is my first choice and I have already had a week to think about the call.


Actually there have been some ASWs that people are completely raving about. But I'm sure that there are a lot of people who came back from Harvard feeling that it's absolutely the school for them, and there are some people at those other ASWs who just didn't feel it. It's all just personal preference, except for the schools who really do put on crappy ASWs.

The schools these people are raving about all have the features the individual is bothered about. Most importantly, they put greater emphasis on social events....from what I've seen, whereas Harvard seems to just be selling you on the ach. honestly, straight out of undergrads are greatly in the minority at Harvard and just looking at the website shows that...which I'm assuming every admit has. People sound picky...but that's just my opinion based on knowing a bunch of incredible people out of Harvard.

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ebeth
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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby ebeth » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:09 pm

These comments about admitted students being boring and overall sucky are making me concerned that I was one of these people that you guys met and were largely unimpressed with.

Anyway, to add my two cents. I had a lot of the same concerns that other posters are voicing. Campus wasn't attractive, the weather was gray and gloomy, housing was absolutely terrible. I actually very much enjoyed the company of the other admitted students (I'm coming straight from undergrad). A lot of people may not recite their most impressive accomplishments right as they meet someone. So it's possible that people who seemed uninteresting were in fact quite interesting and didn't want to come off as arrogant.

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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:12 pm

ebeth wrote:These comments about admitted students being boring and overall sucky are making me concerned that I was one of these people that you guys met and were largely unimpressed with.

Anyway, to add my two cents. I had a lot of the same concerns that other posters are voicing. Campus wasn't attractive, the weather was gray and gloomy, housing was absolutely terrible. I actually very much enjoyed the company of the other admitted students (I'm coming straight from undergrad). A lot of people may not recite their most impressive accomplishments right as they meet someone. So it's possible that people who seemed uninteresting were in fact quite interesting and didn't want to come off as arrogant.

That's usually what it is. The funny thing is that those who say others are unimpressive don't realize how arrogant that sounds. Another thing, has that new building at Harvard been built yet for law students? I could've sworn something new was being built.

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ebeth
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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby ebeth » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:15 pm

Non-Chalant1 wrote:
ebeth wrote:These comments about admitted students being boring and overall sucky are making me concerned that I was one of these people that you guys met and were largely unimpressed with.

Anyway, to add my two cents. I had a lot of the same concerns that other posters are voicing. Campus wasn't attractive, the weather was gray and gloomy, housing was absolutely terrible. I actually very much enjoyed the company of the other admitted students (I'm coming straight from undergrad). A lot of people may not recite their most impressive accomplishments right as they meet someone. So it's possible that people who seemed uninteresting were in fact quite interesting and didn't want to come off as arrogant.

That's usually what it is. The funny thing is that those who say others are unimpressive don't realize how arrogant that sounds. Another thing, has that new building at Harvard been built yet for law students? I could've sworn something new was being built.


It will be done in November and will open in January.

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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby tgir » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:16 pm

Non-Chalant1 wrote:
ebeth wrote:These comments about admitted students being boring and overall sucky are making me concerned that I was one of these people that you guys met and were largely unimpressed with.

Anyway, to add my two cents. I had a lot of the same concerns that other posters are voicing. Campus wasn't attractive, the weather was gray and gloomy, housing was absolutely terrible. I actually very much enjoyed the company of the other admitted students (I'm coming straight from undergrad). A lot of people may not recite their most impressive accomplishments right as they meet someone. So it's possible that people who seemed uninteresting were in fact quite interesting and didn't want to come off as arrogant.

That's usually what it is. The funny thing is that those who say others are unimpressive don't realize how arrogant that sounds. Another thing, has that new building at Harvard been built yet for law students? I could've sworn something new was being built.


According to Dean Minow, the building will be completed by the end of November 2011, orgs/profs will start moving in throughout December, and then it'll open to students by January 2012.

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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:18 pm

Cool. 1 more thing. Also, how much of the class actually stays in those dormitories?

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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby moneko » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:21 pm

.
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ebeth
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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby ebeth » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:22 pm

Non-Chalant1 wrote:Cool. 1 more thing. Also, how much of the class actually stays in those dormitories?


I want to say like 30% of 1Ls? Not completely sure, just something I vaguely remember hearing. So, a sizable minority of 1Ls, and less 2Ls and 3Ls, IIRC.

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Non-Chalant1
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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:28 pm

ebeth wrote:
Non-Chalant1 wrote:Cool. 1 more thing. Also, how much of the class actually stays in those dormitories?


I want to say like 30% of 1Ls? Not completely sure, just something I vaguely remember hearing. So, a sizable minority of 1Ls, and less 2Ls and 3Ls, IIRC.

All right. I don't know if I'll be down for it, but it would be convenient....if it's anything like the Lawyer's Club at Michigan.

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Re: Harvard 2011 Applicants

Postby Confused7 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:55 pm

moneko wrote:
Confused7 wrote:JR1 this week as well, and nervous as heck....HLS is most definitely my first choice, and it would be a dream come true if I could get in before the April ASW to check it out!


me too... are we near the last batch of JR1s handed out? :/


According to last year's thread, there were a scattered few JR1s in the beginning of April. And then if I remember correctly, the rest were joint JR1 + JR2 after waitlists began. =/ Good luck on your JR1!




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