Harvard 2011 Applicants Forum

[swfangirl]

--LinkRemoved--

Does it mean anything if you get a complete e-mail with certain timing?
NO


How does the interview process work?
JR1--Josh Rubenstein 1. JR is the Dean of Admissions. He interviews 1000-1200 people per cycle, and you must get a JR1 in order to get in. He will e-mail you to set it up if you get one.

JR2-Second phone call, letting you know that you're in.

STATS:

Last updated 12/01/2010

PRE-THANKGIVING DATA
Overview:
I got the stats for 23 non-URM JR1s and 4 URM JR1s. Out of this pile, I managed to track down the JR2(either got it 11/22 or didn't) results of 18 of the 23 and 4 of the 4 URMs. Of the 5 applicants I couldn't find, I couldn't remember/tie 2 of the stats to usernames (180/3.92, 177/3.94--if this is you, please PM me!), and 3 have not posted in the thread with results. If you did not PM with me and would like to contribute your data, please do so!

The stats of those who received JR2s and those who did not did not differ.

Non-URM Data
Overall
n=23
Avg LSAT: 177
Avg GPA: 3.91
Median LSAT: 177
Median GPA: 3.92
JR1, no JR2
n=2
Avg LSAT: 177
Avg GPA: 3.94

URM
n=4
Avg LSAT:173
Avg GPA: 3.74
Median LSAT: 174.5
Median GPA: 3.83
All Admitted.

# of ppl(non-URM) in ranges of
LSAT
<170 0
170-171 0
172-173 5
174-176 3
177-180 15
GPA
<3.5x 0
3.5x 0
3.6x 1
3.7x 1
3.8x 5
3.9x 15
4.x 1

So what's the consensus prediction on when we'll see the first batch of JR2s? They came out on Monday, November 23 last year, and then the three Mondays in December after that. Is it fair to expect that, one week from today, a significant number of us will either be elated or suffering from a lonely deafening silence?

+1 I'm predicting 11/22 for the first round of JR2s.

Let's look at the past five cycles based on LSN:

Cycle, Day of Thanksgiving Week
2009-2010, Monday
2008-2009, Tuesday and Wednesday
2007-2008, Wednesday
2006-2007, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday
2005-2006, Friday?!

They better not do it Friday again!

Anyway, my bet is Tuesday 11/23.

Alright, I went through the rest of the data, so it is time for a little more fun with (potentially unrepresentative) numbers.

Below are the numbers for those who had JR1s, but no JR2s:

180 3.97 Waitlisted - Submitted: 11/20/2009 JR1: 12/22/2009
180 3.79 Waitlisted - Submitted: 9/29/2009 JR1: 11/6/2009
168 3.94 (URM) WL, Rejected - Submitted: 10/17/2009 JR1: 11/19/2009
171 3.91 Waitlisted - Submitted: 11/2/2009 JR1: 3/3/2010
173 3.94 Waitlisted - Submitted: 10/9/2009 JR1: 11/5/2010
171 3.68 (URM) Waitlisted - Submitted: 10/18/2009 JR1: 11/19/2010
176 3.8 Waitlisted - Submitted: 12/8/2009 JR1: 1/7/2010
166 3.67 Waitlisted - Submitted: 12/4/2009 JR1: 4/2/2010
179 3.24 Rejected - Submitted: 9/15/2009 JR1: 11/5/2009

Below are the numbers for the 3 candidates that I found that had pre-Thanksgiving JR1s who did not get in during the first round of acceptances but got in later (not including WL then accepted):


171 3.93 Accepted - Submitted: 10/27/2009 JR1: 11/17/2009 Held: 1/13/2010 JR2: 3/8/2010
176 3.92 Accepted - Submitted: 9/26/2009 JR1: 11/5/2009 JR2: 12/14/2009
169 3.92 Accepted - Submitted: 9/15/2009 JR1: 11/3/2009 Held: 1/15/2010 JR2: 4/6/2010

And for some more uplifting news, I looked at the length of time between the submission date and the JR1 date for those candidates that got a JR1. The pattern for those candidates that had JR1s but were not admitted was not consistent enough to produce a meaningful average. The average amount of time between submission and the JR1 for admitted candidates who reported both was 34 days (total days rather than business days). There were 12 instances in which candidates received a JR1 a month and a half or longer after they submitted, and many others that had their JR1s at least a month after submitting. Keep the hope alive!

Alright, well I took it for the team and did some LSN data mining. (Yes, I acknowledge that all this data is self-reported and that LSN is likely an unrepresentative sample of the entire applicant pool. Take it all with a grain of salt.)

The total applications on LSN for HLS represent about 10% of HLS's total applicant pool.

There were 142 admits, which represent 17% of the total admits to Harvard. There were 16 people who got in off of the WL. If you add those to the regular admits (not sure if WL, A are included in the # of offers ABA data or not), that represents 19% of the total admits.

The median and average LSAT for the regular admits were 175 and 174.4. The median and average GPA for regular admits were 3.93 and 3.91. The median and average LSAT for WL admits were 172 and 171.88. The median and average GPA for WL admits were 3.89 and 3.85.

Now for JR1 stats. There was less data here, given that people had to supply this data beyond just choosing an application status. I have not looked at all the rejection data yet, but I assume the incidence of JR1 then rejection is low (I could be wrong, though).

I counted a total of 148 JR1s. There were 61 people who were accepted in the first batch of acceptances. There were four people who noted that they had a pre-Thanksgiving JR1 and subsequently got waitlisted but not accepted.

There were 76 regular admits that got in post-Thanksgiving, 3 admits off the WL that got in who previously had JR1s, and 4 people with post-Thanksgiving JR1s that got waitlisted and were not admitted. There were some people who had pre-Thanksgiving JR1s, but got accepted in a later batch, though I don't have the specific numbers at the moment.

The median and average LSAT of the 61 admits in the first batch were 175 and 174.84. The median and average GPA of the 61 admits in the first batch were 3.94 and 3.91.

The median and average LSAT of the 76 regular admits in later batches were 175 and 173.83. The median and average GPA of the 76 regular admits in later batches were 3.92 and 3.9.

So the first batch admits had slightly higher stats than those in later batches, but not significantly. The regular admits overall had better stats than those who got in off of the WL, unsurprisingly. The percentage of people who had JR1s who later received JR2s is extremely high for both pre-Thanksgiving and post-Thanksgiving JR1s (around 94%). There were only 8 people total who reported JR1s but no JR2s. If only that were representative!

I hope that some of you find this interesting. Enjoy!

Threads from last year:

Harvard Phone Interview Stats
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =7&t=93290

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =7&t=85858

Held by Harvard 2010:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 7&t=103725

[rundoxierun]

Ehh my app was received yesterday, just got the acknowledgement today so not yet UR. Might miss the deadline for consideration in the first JR1 batch.

[GeePee]

Good luck future '14ers

[ConMan345]

72% of 2013 have work experience after undergrad, fyi; up from 50% for 2012, which was the highest year to date. Looks like JR has some different preferences.

[bk1]

72% of 2013 have work experience after undergrad, fyi; up from 50% for 2012, which was the highest year to date. Looks like JR has some different preferences.

Damn that's high.

[ConMan345]

There are still people straight from undergrad, but they are definitely the exception.

[rundoxierun]

72% of 2013 have work experience after undergrad, fyi; up from 50% for 2012, which was the highest year to date. Looks like JR has some different preferences.

Yeah... def not good for me.

[ConMan345]

JR's also all about this "impact" thing and "future leaders in their fields" thing, which are pretty hard things to have as an undergrad over someone a few years out.

[ConMan345]

It's an argument for specialization in your application. If your numbers aren't stellar, try to paint your application as the best of a certain type. Generalists beware at the lower end of the numbers scale.

/golden advice

[rundoxierun]

It's an argument for specialization in your application. If your numbers aren't stellar, try to paint your application as the best of a certain type. Generalists beware at the lower end of the numbers scale.

/golden advice

Thanks for stopping by and being a buzzkill.. now we are all out at H.

[bk1]

It's an argument for specialization in your application. If your numbers aren't stellar, try to paint your application as the best of a certain type. Generalists beware at the lower end of the numbers scale.

/golden advice

Thanks for stopping by and being a buzzkill.. now we are all out at H.

Oh wahhhhhh.

[r6_philly]

It's an argument for specialization in your application. If your numbers aren't stellar, try to paint your application as the best of a certain type. Generalists beware at the lower end of the numbers scale.

/golden advice

I think my app may look quite a bit better this year then. Everything is focused and ties in better with my WE. I am submitting tonight, fingers and toes crossed!

[GeePee]

I think having a strong, stated interest within my personal statement (for me it was public service) really helped my overall application. Of course, that's on top of having pretty decent numbers, but judging by the number of my classmates with strong credentials, I think it definitely made me a bit more memorable on the whole.

[The Real Jack McCoy]

I've been waiting on an LOR for six weeks now. Application is ready to go.

So is the conventional wisdom that the first batch are those who get their applications in by Halloween? I looked through LSN and it looks like if you are in by November you have a chance to be accepted by Thanksgiving.

[rundoxierun]

Ehh I have no idea what my PS will really express specifically. I mean, I know what I wanted it to express but I dont know what they will think. Everyone says I am a very good writer but I really hate my writing.

[mydogteddy]

Just came back from the Harvard Club (which only made me want to get in THAT much more). Didn't bump into JR, but I don't think we have too much to worry about as undergrads. At this point, there's not much we can do anyways (short of withdrawing our apps, gaining world-changing life experience, and reapplying in a few years), so we may as well just hang on and enjoy the ride, right?

Good luck everyone!

[The Real Jack McCoy]

Well can't worry about the JR1 until I get the LOR. I'm just worrying about getting my application in with the first real batch.

[WestOfTheRest]

Well can't worry about the JR1 until I get the LOR. I'm just worrying about getting my application in with the first real batch.

First batch seems to be anything by november. Although, JR1s start going out mid-october. Damn I'm nervous. I hope the increase in WE is the result of an increased number of applications from people in out of ug and not a change in preference.

[WestOfTheRest]

Well that blows a massive..... Oh well,I guess my dreams of attending Harvard just shrunk considerably.

[Na_Swatch]

Hmm, well even with the increased preference for those a couple years out, I don't think its become significantly more difficult for straight-out of undergrad applicants...

Got in last cycle with basically median/ median numbers... Just make sure your application is strong, coherent, and get it in early if you can... I submitted end of October and had a JR2 by thanksgiving.

[WestOfTheRest]

Hmm, well even with the increased preference for those a couple years out, I don't think its become significantly more difficult for straight-out of undergrad applicants...

Got in last cycle with basically median/ median numbers... Just make sure your application is strong, coherent, and get it in early if you can... I submitted end of October and had a JR2 by thanksgiving.

Here's hoping that your experiences are applicable to our experiences.

[kazu]

Hmm, well even with the increased preference for those a couple years out, I don't think its become significantly more difficult for straight-out of undergrad applicants...

Got in last cycle with basically median/ median numbers... Just make sure your application is strong, coherent, and get it in early if you can... I submitted end of October and had a JR2 by thanksgiving.

Can you tell us more about why people might not get a JR2 (after getting a JR1)? If you know?

[Na_Swatch]

Hmm, well even with the increased preference for those a couple years out, I don't think its become significantly more difficult for straight-out of undergrad applicants...

Got in last cycle with basically median/ median numbers... Just make sure your application is strong, coherent, and get it in early if you can... I submitted end of October and had a JR2 by thanksgiving.

Can you tell us more about why people might not get a JR2 (after getting a JR1)? If you know?

From what I remember about last cycle it seemed like a lot of ~3.8, 175+ types might have gotten a JR1 but were borderline applicants who ended up waitlisted (since JR went with a heavier focus on GPA it seems)...

Most of the time those who didn't get a JR2 were on the edge, so the phone call itself isn't very determinative. My phone call made me feel pretty bad... it was over with in like 4 mins, and when I asked JR when I'd hear back he told me like probably 6 weeks. Then I got the call back 10 days later, so it really doesn't seem that important to nail the phone interview.

[kazu]

From what I remember about last cycle it seemed like a lot of ~3.8, 175+ types might have gotten a JR1 but were borderline applicants who ended up waitlisted (since JR went with a heavier focus on GPA it seems)...

Most of the time those who didn't get a JR2 were on the edge, so the phone call itself isn't very determinative. My phone call made me feel pretty bad... it was over with in like 4 mins, and when I asked JR when I'd hear back he told me like probably 6 weeks. Then I got the call back 10 days later, so it really doesn't seem that important to nail the phone interview.

I don't know if this is good news or bad.. Thanks for the info though!

[WestOfTheRest]

From what I remember about last cycle it seemed like a lot of ~3.8, 175+ types might have gotten a JR1 but were borderline applicants who ended up waitlisted (since JR went with a heavier focus on GPA it seems)...

Most of the time those who didn't get a JR2 were on the edge, so the phone call itself isn't very determinative. My phone call made me feel pretty bad... it was over with in like 4 mins, and when I asked JR when I'd hear back he told me like probably 6 weeks. Then I got the call back 10 days later, so it really doesn't seem that important to nail the phone interview.

I don't know if this is good news or bad.. Thanks for the info though!

FML