Berkeley 2011 applicants

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ahduth
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby ahduth » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:46 am

Knock wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
Knock wrote:<--- Has a very strong chance of ending up at Berkeley :).


Penn moved up a notch on my l list today so they are back even. :shock:


Ha, Penn hates me so they're not even on my list atm.


Yeah... I didn't even apply there. It was a T6, west coast or money kind of thing for me. Penn didn't seem to meet any of those requirements.

minuit
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby minuit » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am

r6_philly wrote:
hipstermafia wrote:
minuit wrote:congrats to all those admitted!! do you think that berkeley is trying to raise its LSAT median this year? a lot of 170+ scores reporting... or do most of the lower numbers get admitted through faculty review?

I also feel like there have been a disproportionate number of high lsat/gpa acceptances relative to their medians. WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN BERKELEY???


They are tired of people talking crap about their numerical qualities. 170 median this year like other T14's?


I really think this could be a possibility! There is no way Berkeley's 25th can be a 163 if current admit trends this year keep up!

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giddybiscuit
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby giddybiscuit » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:15 am

The Stig wrote:
I might submit my LOCI shortly; it will consist of

Image
:D :D :D


(sorry for posting this in two threads, i just can't get over how nice the weather is in CA!)


HAHA - This is why I've already decided not to go to Wisconsin. And partially why I chose Berkeley over Wisconsin as an undergrad.

r6_philly
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby r6_philly » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:39 am

ahduth wrote:Yeah... I didn't even apply there. It was a T6, west coast or money kind of thing for me. Penn didn't seem to meet any of those requirements.


What if BPChiN end up tied for 6.5 next year? USNews could probably pull a stunt like that. The new buildings has to move BP up a bit.

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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby r6_philly » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:43 am

minuit wrote:
I really think this could be a possibility! There is no way Berkeley's 25th can be a 163 if current admit trends this year keep up!


They may be trying, but the yield will determine the end result. It's still early, I am not sure if there are that many high numbers to fill the T10.

Another thought for me is, if they are going to raise tuition, they need to raise the numbers. I think if they are tied for 6th, people will feel better about paying so much. So obviously the other quality of Boalt is high enough to nudge it into T6 despite lower numbers before, the sure thing to do to ensure it moves back up to T6 is to raise the numbers while everything else is the same. You can look forward to the new building to add some steam to the upward drive, but Penn is also building a new building. Like I said above, it would be funny (no) if Chi/NYU and B/P end up tied in the near future rankings.

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hipstermafia
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby hipstermafia » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:02 am

r6_philly wrote:
minuit wrote:
I really think this could be a possibility! There is no way Berkeley's 25th can be a 163 if current admit trends this year keep up!


They may be trying, but the yield will determine the end result. It's still early, I am not sure if there are that many high numbers to fill the T10.

Another thought for me is, if they are going to raise tuition, they need to raise the numbers. I think if they are tied for 6th, people will feel better about paying so much. So obviously the other quality of Boalt is high enough to nudge it into T6 despite lower numbers before, the sure thing to do to ensure it moves back up to T6 is to raise the numbers while everything else is the same. You can look forward to the new building to add some steam to the upward drive, but Penn is also building a new building. Like I said above, it would be funny (no) if Chi/NYU and B/P end up tied in the near future rankings.

IIRC part of the rankings has something to do with $$ spent per student, does that have anything to do with tuition (ie. how much money a school is bringing in)?

r6_philly
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby r6_philly » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:17 am

hipstermafia wrote:IIRC part of the rankings has something to do with $$ spent per student, does that have anything to do with tuition (ie. how much money a school is bringing in)?


That would depend on how much tuition money is spent back on the students. I presume if they receive less funding from Cal (who gets it from state), they would have to cover the loss with increased tuition. But the law school could also be self-sufficient but the increased tuition has to go back to Cal. I am not sure. I'd rather think that the tuition increase is only there to plug other holes (I can't see them raise tuition above Ivy level if they had a choice).

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bilbobaggins
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby bilbobaggins » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:19 pm

Are you guys really that concerned about one spot in the rankings? Is that one spot really a justification for higher fees? Or necessary for you to attend if fees are higher? The difference between a 6 and a 7? This really is TLS at its worst.

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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby r6_philly » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:23 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:Are you guys really that concerned about one spot in the rankings? Is that one spot really a justification for higher fees? Or necessary for you to attend if fees are higher? The difference between a 6 and a 7? This really is TLS at its worst.


Not concerned, just guessing why the numerical qualities of acceptances are trending higher. Ranking fluctuates. As long as the school brings in the right firms to OCI and I can find alumni in similar positions as I desire, I am cool with the school.

clone22
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby clone22 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:25 pm

r6_philly wrote:
clone22 wrote:
hipstermafia wrote:Data mining from lsn: lsats of of non-urm admits thus far:

170 and above: 36/48
169 and below: 12/48


just to add a datapoint, 169 here (3.92) and got in like 2 days before thanksgiving (and proceeded to get 2 tickets which now require an addendum but w/e, might as well go balls out celebrating, right?)


Congrats, but I hope those weren't DUI...

nope, a misdemeanor parking ticket

edit: on a side note, how smart is it to go to berk with a chance of paying sticker? They dont give out financial aid until after most school's scholly acceptance deadlines have passed, so what would be the legit decision to make? Ask other schools to push back their deadlines?
Last edited by clone22 on Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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hipstermafia
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby hipstermafia » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:26 pm

r6_philly wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:Are you guys really that concerned about one spot in the rankings? Is that one spot really a justification for higher fees? Or necessary for you to attend if fees are higher? The difference between a 6 and a 7? This really is TLS at its worst.


Not concerned, just guessing why the numerical qualities of acceptances are trending higher. Ranking fluctuates. As long as the school brings in the right firms to OCI and I can find alumni in similar positions as I desire, I am cool with the school.

yeah, this

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LilMonsterAnnie
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby LilMonsterAnnie » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:26 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:Are you guys really that concerned about one spot in the rankings? Is that one spot really a justification for higher fees? Or necessary for you to attend if fees are higher? The difference between a 6 and a 7? This really is TLS at its worst.


Thank you yet again Bilbo

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glitched
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby glitched » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:37 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:Are you guys really that concerned about one spot in the rankings? Is that one spot really a justification for higher fees? Or necessary for you to attend if fees are higher? The difference between a 6 and a 7? This really is TLS at its worst.


No... i think... the weird cat pictures still take the cake.

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Gotti
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby Gotti » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:37 pm

glitched wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:Are you guys really that concerned about one spot in the rankings? Is that one spot really a justification for higher fees? Or necessary for you to attend if fees are higher? The difference between a 6 and a 7? This really is TLS at its worst.


No... i think... the weird cat pictures still take the cake.

+1

r6_philly
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby r6_philly » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:45 pm

LilMonsterAnnie wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:Are you guys really that concerned about one spot in the rankings? Is that one spot really a justification for higher fees? Or necessary for you to attend if fees are higher? The difference between a 6 and a 7? This really is TLS at its worst.


Thank you yet again Bilbo


Just thought about this: he is pretty quick to judgment coming from a liberal, enlightened kind of atmosphere. What happened to respect others for their opinions and choices?

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Weirdlog
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby Weirdlog » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:52 pm

r6_philly wrote:
LilMonsterAnnie wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:Are you guys really that concerned about one spot in the rankings? Is that one spot really a justification for higher fees? Or necessary for you to attend if fees are higher? The difference between a 6 and a 7? This really is TLS at its worst.


Thank you yet again Bilbo


Just thought about this: he is pretty quick to judgment coming from a liberal, enlightened kind of atmosphere. What happened to respect others for their opinions and choices?


Plus, if law schools are going to judge us by our numbers, can't we in turn judge them by their "numbers" (being rankings)?

Also I would probably go to NYU over Berkeley just because I like New York City better than Berkeley, California.

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Gotti
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby Gotti » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:56 pm

Weirdlog wrote:Plus, if law schools are going to judge us by our numbers, can't we in turn judge them by their "numbers" (being rankings)?

Also I would probably go to NYU over Berkeley just because I like New York City better than Berkeley, California.


Well that doesn't really prove your point because NYU is ranked higher than Berkeley...
Anyway, NYU has a much bigger national reach than Berkeley does

r6_philly
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby r6_philly » Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:11 pm

Gotti wrote:Well that doesn't really prove your point because NYU is ranked higher than Berkeley...

See 2009 rankings.

Anyway, NYU has a much bigger national reach than Berkeley does


I disagree. As a matter of fact Berkeley as a whole has a much better reputation than NYU right here 100 mile from NYU. particular the university as a whole. (I am saying this largely because you didn't say "NYU law has ... than Boalt or Berkeley Law" :P

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bilbobaggins
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby bilbobaggins » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:02 pm

Weirdlog wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
LilMonsterAnnie wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:Are you guys really that concerned about one spot in the rankings? Is that one spot really a justification for higher fees? Or necessary for you to attend if fees are higher? The difference between a 6 and a 7? This really is TLS at its worst.


Thank you yet again Bilbo


Just thought about this: he is pretty quick to judgment coming from a liberal, enlightened kind of atmosphere. What happened to respect others for their opinions and choices?


Plus, if law schools are going to judge us by our numbers, can't we in turn judge them by their "numbers" (being rankings)?

Also I would probably go to NYU over Berkeley just because I like New York City better than Berkeley, California.


If you actually think there is a meaningful difference between 6 and 7, or 7 and 8, etc. then you're deluded. It's exactly like how if you think there's a meaningful difference between an individual with a 168 as opposed to a 167, you're also deluded. Simply because law schools make these distinctions doesn't mean they're actually valuable distinctions when talking about the quality of an individual (or school). So yes, judge the difference between 7 and 25, but 6 and 7, come on. This is just common sense, which is why TLS has such a hard time with it.

I certainly respect individuals who can explain their choices in a way that is reasonable and I respect others whose opinions and choices make sense. It's bullshit to simply say, I respect all people and all of their opinions and you should also (even beyond the logic 101 issues with a statement like that). If you want to make choices based on poor reasoning, that's no problem with me, but it's when people start to proselytize based on poor reasoning that you'll get a response from people. The obsession with minute rankings and stats differences is one of the things about the TLS groupthink that results in people making choices based on poor reasons.

An "enlightened" atmosphere is one that is critical of opinions and ideas that don't make sense and are not adequately supported by reality and/or arguments. The obsession over numbers and rankings is obnoxious. It's sort of like when someone says "NYU has a bigger national reach than Berkeley." Like most products in a society plagued by false differentiation, the actual difference between these two schools is negligible when it comes to finding a job in Atlanta or Portland or Washington, DC, for that matter. Yet, because of a slight difference in statistics or polling data, we have people making huge decisions based on small numerical differences.

I think it’s a misunderstanding of the kind of place Boalt is if you think it’s some sort of wonderland where everyone with an opinion is entitled to its correctness or to not be challenged by those who disagree. I don’t think I’m changing the minds of R6 or others, but I do think an alternative perspective needs to be presented for people who are genuinely trying to understand what it means for a school to be ranked 6 by US News and World as opposed to 8 (surprise: nothing!).

Boalt’s also a place with no GPAs. Where people rarely discuss grades and where class rank is secret and revealing yours can be a violation of the honor code. It’s a school that specifically tries to think about things besides arbitrary numbers when evaluating the legal world. It’s a place where people actively question the use of the rankings and whether or not it’s worthwhile to spend all of the school’s money chasing them. And it’s definitely a place where I know many individuals who decided to attend rather than go to higher ranked schools where they were admitted, including the much worshipped top 3 (and yes, even Yale).

I’m not telling you where to go to school, or even how to decide, but I do think, for many reasons, some of which I have explained here, that using rankings within the T14 to decide which school is right for you and your goals is one of the worst ways to proceed, especially when looking at schools ranked right next to each other.

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Gotti
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby Gotti » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:09 pm

r6_philly wrote:
Gotti wrote:Well that doesn't really prove your point because NYU is ranked higher than Berkeley...

See 2009 rankings.


But it's 2011 :?

r6_philly wrote:
Anyway, NYU has a much bigger national reach than Berkeley does


I disagree. As a matter of fact Berkeley as a whole has a much better reputation than NYU right here 100 mile from NYU. particular the university as a whole. (I am saying this largely because you didn't say "NYU law has ... than Boalt or Berkeley Law" :P


Hahha okay NYU law has a bigger national reach than Boalt Hall does.

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aesis
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby aesis » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:16 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:I’m not telling you where to go to school, or even how to decide, but I do think, for many reasons, some of which I have explained here, that using rankings within the T14 to decide which school is right for you and your goals is one of the worst ways to proceed, especially when looking at schools ranked right next to each other.


I personally appreciated this. Thanks.

r6_philly
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby r6_philly » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:08 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:I think it’s a misunderstanding of the kind of place Boalt is if you think it’s some sort of wonderland where everyone with an opinion is entitled to its correctness or to not be challenged by those who disagree. I don’t think I’m changing the minds of R6 or others, but I do think an alternative perspective needs to be presented for people who are genuinely trying to understand what it means for a school to be ranked 6 by US News and World as opposed to 8 (surprise: nothing!).


The methodology of the rankings is published. You can most certainly figure out what quantitative differences are there and what it means to be ranked 6th or 8th - and it isn't nothing.

I’m not telling you where to go to school, or even how to decide, but I do think, for many reasons, some of which I have explained here, that using rankings within the T14 to decide which school is right for you and your goals is one of the worst ways to proceed, especially when looking at schools ranked right next to each other.


Thank you for your insights, but I am certainly capable of making positive and intelligent life decisions. I do think you overreach on why someone should or should not choose Boalt. If you want to talk objective measures - see US News Rankings. If you want to talk about subjective measures, your perspectives and priorities will not, and should not apply to others. I welcome and respect your opinions, but it isn't your place (sorry) to tell anyone how they are choosing a school is "one of the worst ways" to decide. Respectfully.

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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby r6_philly » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:22 pm

I certainly respect individuals who can explain their choices in a way that is reasonable and I respect others whose opinions and choices make sense. It's bullshit to simply say, I respect all people and all of their opinions and you should also (even beyond the logic 101 issues with a statement like that).


I certainly respect other individuals' choices and opinions regardless of I think if they are logically sound and/or correct, as long as they are not actively, adversely affecting other people. I think that's the spirit of the constitution anyway. Being judgmental is a sign of narrow perspective. I think you fail to realize that what make sense to you don't always make sense to others, and vice versa. And law schools supposedly value diverse perspectives.

Anyways, I don't think if you are really convincing people to like Boalt or not, which is almost puzzling to me. Fortunately, none of this is going to make any difference in my decision making process when it comes to Boalt or any other school, since I am deciding based on personal criteria. Ranking is a merely a guide, a small piece of information in the grand scheme of things.

You know what the most interesting thing is? I contacted multiple faculty and other staff at Boalt about their IP program. They all pretty much answer with the same answer:

"Our IP program has been ranked #1 in the country 11 out of the past 12 years, the ranking speaks for itself."

:lol: are you sure you go to Boalt? They are pretty damn proud of the rankings.

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Flips88
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby Flips88 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:26 pm

God guys, just get the ruler out and start measuring each other's dicks and be done with it.

JTMan
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Re: Berkeley 2011 applicants

Postby JTMan » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:27 pm

Flips88 wrote:God guys, just get the ruler out and start measuring each other's dicks and be done with it.



hahhaa my sentiments exactly.




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