Michigan 2011

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby Bildungsroman » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:54 am

FMaze wrote:Let me make it Crayola simple. ED to one school. Had a change of heart. Asked on TLS what the chances were of opting out of the ED. Feedback was fairly positive.

The more I think about it, the ED is a roll of the dice trap favoring the law school. What if the student applicant did not reach high enough or later decides the debt is more than one should undertake in this down economy or an RD school offers a substantial scholarship, etc. The ED is a one way we got you contract providing the school with a skewed advantage. Lesson learned―unfortunately the lesson lasts for three long years,


This is why I discourage people from EDing, and why I think TLS's standard advice to ED to NU or GULC or UVA etc. is worthless. However, none of the reasons you listed (What if the student applicant did not reach high enough or later decides the debt is more than one should undertake in this down economy or an RD school offers a substantial scholarship, etc.) are a compelling reason for someone who has Eded to be released from that obligation. We're all adults; just because we didn't plan things out well enough or we gambled poorly doesn't mean that we can renege on our obligations.

Regardless, Michigan is a great school and I hope you enjoy it.

Edit: I hope I don't sound like an asshole in this post, I wasn't meaning to be condescending or reproachful.

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Blindc1rca
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby Blindc1rca » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:47 am

I was accepted eight days ago and nothing in the mail, nothing in my inbox, and nothing on the admitted students website (Mail&Money) regarding scholarships... Does anyone know how long it takes to get scholly info?

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby lzyovrachievr » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:04 pm

Blindc1rca wrote:I was accepted eight days ago and nothing in the mail, nothing in my inbox, and nothing on the admitted students website (Mail&Money) regarding scholarships... Does anyone know how long it takes to get scholly info?

Well she says she looks at the application like a week after you're accepted to determine scholly information, so I'd assume you'll get it a week or so after you receive the acceptance letter.

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beachbum
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby beachbum » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:25 pm

FMaze wrote:Let me make it Crayola simple. ED to one school. Had a change of heart. Asked on TLS what the chances were of opting out of the ED. Feedback was fairly positive.

The more I think about it, the ED is a roll of the dice trap favoring the law school. What if the student applicant did not reach high enough or later decides the debt is more than one should undertake in this down economy or an RD school offers a substantial scholarship, etc. The ED is a one way we got you contract providing the school with a skewed advantage. Lesson learned―unfortunately the lesson lasts for three long years,


Just don't go to law school this year. You made a poor decision and didn't adequately consider the consequences of that decision, but you can still make it right by sitting out a year and trying again next cycle. Use this time to get some work experience.

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FMaze
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby FMaze » Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:10 pm

mr_toad wrote:And, ironically, Michigan is pushing to reduce the over-use of ED, or at least "floating" ED. But in general, the dean has listed similar (to your) arguments against ED.

If you have the link to the article that lists the dean’s arguments against ED, I would love to see it. Thank you.

Bildungsroman wrote:
FMaze wrote:Let me make it Crayola simple. ED to one school. Had a change of heart. Asked on TLS what the chances were of opting out of the ED. Feedback was fairly positive.


This is why I discourage people from EDing, and why I think TLS's standard advice to ED to NU or GULC or UVA etc. is worthless. We're all adults; just because we didn't plan things out well enough or we gambled poorly doesn't mean that we can renege on our obligations.

Even without an ED this would have been a difficult decision anyway. I certainly understand, through my own volition, I signed away my right to choose before all options could be measured. I guess the moral to the story is, when there are strings attached, one better not, as you say, gamble poorly. Like I said earlier―lesson learned. Thanks.

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The Stig
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby The Stig » Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:22 pm

FMaze wrote:
mr_toad wrote:And, ironically, Michigan is pushing to reduce the over-use of ED, or at least "floating" ED. But in general, the dean has listed similar (to your) arguments against ED.

If you have the link to the article that lists the dean’s arguments against ED, I would love to see it. Thank you.


Newer post - http://www.law.umich.edu/connection/a2z/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=44

Older post - http://www.law.umich.edu/connection/a2z/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=35

HTH!

pinkzebra
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby pinkzebra » Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:43 pm

In via snail mail today!!! :D

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spacepenguin
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby spacepenguin » Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:45 pm

pinkzebra wrote:In via snail mail today!!! :D


Congrats!!! Would you mind sharing your dates?

pinkzebra
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby pinkzebra » Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:48 pm

I applied on 11/22 or 11/23, not sure which... then got my status checker 12/22

paulinaporizkova
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby paulinaporizkova » Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:24 pm

FMaze wrote:
mr_toad wrote:And, ironically, Michigan is pushing to reduce the over-use of ED, or at least "floating" ED. But in general, the dean has listed similar (to your) arguments against ED.

If you have the link to the article that lists the dean’s arguments against ED, I would love to see it. Thank you.

Bildungsroman wrote:
FMaze wrote:Let me make it Crayola simple. ED to one school. Had a change of heart. Asked on TLS what the chances were of opting out of the ED. Feedback was fairly positive.


This is why I discourage people from EDing, and why I think TLS's standard advice to ED to NU or GULC or UVA etc. is worthless. We're all adults; just because we didn't plan things out well enough or we gambled poorly doesn't mean that we can renege on our obligations.

Even without an ED this would have been a difficult decision anyway. I certainly understand, through my own volition, I signed away my right to choose before all options could be measured. I guess the moral to the story is, when there are strings attached, one better not, as you say, gamble poorly. Like I said earlier―lesson learned. Thanks.


Wait, so you are going to Michigan FMaze? Like, they wouldn't let you out of it? I remember you asking about getting out of your ED contract a while back and I wanted to know what ultimately happened. Did you ever think about withdrawing all apps and applying again next cycle? I know that goes against a lot of the arguments about morality in the LS process/following through with an ED because you are ethically obligated, etc. but just throwing it out there.

On another note, I think it would be really interesting if law schools dropped ED altogether. I completely understand anyone who wants to do it, but when you really think about it it just seems so silly, like it just feels like law schools are more trying to protect their asses with ED's instead of being genuinely more interested in people who are genuinely interested in them. (Of course, absolutely no offense to anyone who ED'd; I would have ED'd Michigan but I couldn't because of a time constraint, annnd I got rejected subsequently - my numbers were very borderline - 3.9/167.)

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savvyradish
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby savvyradish » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:44 pm

In via admitted students site!

There's a general consensus that this means legit admission, right?

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whitman
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby whitman » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:48 pm

savvyradish wrote:In via admitted students site!

There's a general consensus that this means legit admission, right?


Yeah, you're in. Congratulations!

Has anyone who received that weird hold/apology for taking so long email gotten in?

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FMaze
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby FMaze » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:24 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:
FMaze wrote:
mr_toad wrote:And, ironically, Michigan is pushing to reduce the over-use of ED, or at least "floating" ED. But in general, the dean has listed similar (to your) arguments against ED.

Wait, so you are going to Michigan FMaze? Like, they wouldn't let you out of it? I remember you asking about getting out of your ED contract a while back and I wanted to know what ultimately happened. Did you ever think about withdrawing all apps and applying again next cycle? I know that goes against a lot of the arguments about morality in the LS process/following through with an ED because you are ethically obligated, etc. but just throwing it out there.

On another note, I think it would be really interesting if law schools dropped ED altogether. I completely understand anyone who wants to do it, but when you really think about it it just seems so silly, like it just feels like law schools are more trying to protect their asses with ED's instead of being genuinely more interested in people who are genuinely interested in them. (Of course, absolutely no offense to anyone who ED'd; I would have ED'd Michigan but I couldn't because of a time constraint, annnd I got rejected subsequently - my numbers were very borderline - 3.9/167.)

After reading Dean Z’s article about the “we got you” aspect of an ED, I am not certain I am ethically bound, as much as contractually bound.

According to Dean Z, in the future “ . . . if you have accepted a law school’s offer, that school cannot require you to withdraw from all other waitlists. ” I think it represents an important recognition that, in the end, the well-being of the applicants ought to be the prime concern of our admissions policies.”

While this is great news for new applicants, the current hard-line ED policy is still in place. What is it they say―timing is everything.

Since your [borderline] GPA/LSAT score mirrors mine, perhaps this is the scenario where an ED is beneficial.

A special thanks to Mr. Toad for the Dean Z links.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby paulinaporizkova » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:30 pm

FMaze wrote:

A special thanks to Mr. Toad for the Dean Z links.


Yeah I think you are right. But you are going next fall? On another note, this past Sept I was researching different ED policies of schools to consider whether I wanted to ED. One of the schools in particular said something along the lines of "we have the right to let other schools know that you were accepted with an ED contract to OUR school" which I kind of took to mean that they can't force you to enroll at their school, but if they get scorned because you drop them to attend somewhere else, they can let that school know that you're a shady bastard and maybe that school won't admit you on those grounds.

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daniel5126
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby daniel5126 » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:38 pm

FMaze wrote:The more I think about it, the ED is a roll of the dice trap favoring the law school.


a revelation for the ages

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mr_toad
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby mr_toad » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:45 pm

Note: anyone thinking about trying to not withdraw from other schools should do a forum search for the "worst cycle ever", in which you'll find a candidate with great numbers who apparently got bounced by all his Tier 1 schools after not withdrawing following his ED acceptance to, I think, Columbia.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby paulinaporizkova » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:47 pm

daniel5126 wrote:
FMaze wrote:The more I think about it, the ED is a roll of the dice trap favoring the law school.


a revelation for the ages


it's so true isn't it

r6_philly
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby r6_philly » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:47 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:
FMaze wrote:

A special thanks to Mr. Toad for the Dean Z links.


Yeah I think you are right. But you are going next fall? On another note, this past Sept I was researching different ED policies of schools to consider whether I wanted to ED. One of the schools in particular said something along the lines of "we have the right to let other schools know that you were accepted with an ED contract to OUR school" which I kind of took to mean that they can't force you to enroll at their school, but if they get scorned because you drop them to attend somewhere else, they can let that school know that you're a shady bastard and maybe that school won't admit you on those grounds.


I wonder if breaking the ED contract would prevent you from bar admissions even if you were able to somehow attend another school.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby paulinaporizkova » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:48 pm

mr_toad wrote:Note: anyone thinking about trying to not withdraw from other schools should do a forum search for the "worst cycle ever", in which you'll find a candidate with great numbers who apparently got bounced by all his Tier 1 schools after not withdrawing following his ED acceptance to, I think, Columbia.


Um, Excuse me, that is false. Pepperdine didn't drop him :)

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AreJay711
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby AreJay711 » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:49 pm

r6_philly wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:
FMaze wrote:

A special thanks to Mr. Toad for the Dean Z links.


Yeah I think you are right. But you are going next fall? On another note, this past Sept I was researching different ED policies of schools to consider whether I wanted to ED. One of the schools in particular said something along the lines of "we have the right to let other schools know that you were accepted with an ED contract to OUR school" which I kind of took to mean that they can't force you to enroll at their school, but if they get scorned because you drop them to attend somewhere else, they can let that school know that you're a shady bastard and maybe that school won't admit you on those grounds.


I wonder if breaking the ED contract would prevent you from bar admissions even if you were able to somehow attend another school.

You aren't really breaking ED contract if you don't go to law school this semester for "financial reasons".

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mr_toad
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby mr_toad » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:49 pm

r6_philly wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:
FMaze wrote:

A special thanks to Mr. Toad for the Dean Z links.


Yeah I think you are right. But you are going next fall? On another note, this past Sept I was researching different ED policies of schools to consider whether I wanted to ED. One of the schools in particular said something along the lines of "we have the right to let other schools know that you were accepted with an ED contract to OUR school" which I kind of took to mean that they can't force you to enroll at their school, but if they get scorned because you drop them to attend somewhere else, they can let that school know that you're a shady bastard and maybe that school won't admit you on those grounds.


I wonder if breaking the ED contract would prevent you from bar admissions even if you were able to somehow attend another school.


Depends on your definition of Tier 1, I suppose... no offense to Pepperdine. Is Tier One top 50 or top 100, I've seen both.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby paulinaporizkova » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:50 pm

r6_philly wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:
FMaze wrote:

A special thanks to Mr. Toad for the Dean Z links.


Yeah I think you are right. But you are going next fall? On another note, this past Sept I was researching different ED policies of schools to consider whether I wanted to ED. One of the schools in particular said something along the lines of "we have the right to let other schools know that you were accepted with an ED contract to OUR school" which I kind of took to mean that they can't force you to enroll at their school, but if they get scorned because you drop them to attend somewhere else, they can let that school know that you're a shady bastard and maybe that school won't admit you on those grounds.


I wonder if breaking the ED contract would prevent you from bar admissions even if you were able to somehow attend another school.


I doubt it, but that's a scary thought. I mean it really is just this little piece of paper with your signature on it. Hopefully none of us will ever have to deal with its awful ramifications.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby paulinaporizkova » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:51 pm

mr_toad wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:
FMaze wrote:

A special thanks to Mr. Toad for the Dean Z links.


Yeah I think you are right. But you are going next fall? On another note, this past Sept I was researching different ED policies of schools to consider whether I wanted to ED. One of the schools in particular said something along the lines of "we have the right to let other schools know that you were accepted with an ED contract to OUR school" which I kind of took to mean that they can't force you to enroll at their school, but if they get scorned because you drop them to attend somewhere else, they can let that school know that you're a shady bastard and maybe that school won't admit you on those grounds.


I wonder if breaking the ED contract would prevent you from bar admissions even if you were able to somehow attend another school.


Depends on your definition of Tier 1, I suppose... no offense to Pepperdine. Is Tier One top 50 or top 100, I've seen both.


Don't worry, Toad, I did mean offense to Pepperdine (FTR, I thought it was 100)

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mr_toad
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby mr_toad » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:52 pm

I doubt it, but that's a scary thought. I mean it really is just this little piece of paper with your signature on it. Hopefully none of us will ever have to deal with its awful ramifications.


So is any other contract, when it comes down to it. You're getting into law: respect those little, "legally binding" pieces of paper. I'm against ED personally for my own reasons (i.e., I value flexibility and the ability to change my mind easily), but getting into a contract is still getting into a contract. Possible to get out of? Sure. Easy? Probably not, and probably shouldn't be without major extenuating circumstances. Contracts are one of the bases for the rule of law, right?

r6_philly
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Re: Michigan 2011

Postby r6_philly » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:54 pm

AreJay711 wrote:You aren't really breaking ED contract if you don't go to law school this semester for "financial reasons".


I mean go to a different school instead.




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