IU Bloomington Class of 2014

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vegenator
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby vegenator » Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:57 pm

To the earlier discussion regarding scholarships.
Yes, there is a difference between 120k over three years and "full out of state tuition" (which is what my letter stated). As Lwoods mentioned, the latter accounts for tuition increases, whereas you'd be out of luck with the former.

On a related note, UIUC awarded a few "120k over three years" which was "intended to cover the cost of out of state tuition," which is currently 40k (these aren't direct quotes, but what I remember from my scholarship letter... too lazy to actually dig it out right now). So, at UIUC, people in this situation are also subjected to potential increases in tuition AND UIUC estimates roughly 5k/ year in additional fees and books, which obviously aren't part of the scholarship.

Just some details to think about (as well as the conditions of maintaining the scholarship. At least IUB is generous in those regards, schools like Bama and Iowa have much more stringent GPA/rank stipulations) as we begin compare offers at schools.

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LeDique
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby LeDique » Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:53 pm

Has there been any clarification on what the requirements actually are?

pereira6
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby pereira6 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:07 pm

LeDique wrote:Has there been any clarification on what the requirements actually are?


Not from what I've heard. My letter only says "satisfactory" progress in 1L and subsequent years.

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vegenator
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby vegenator » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:03 pm

Mine says "the award is renewable contingent upon your maintaining satisfactory progress at the end of your first year and each subsequent semester thereafter and not being disciplinarily sanctioned for professional or academic misconduct."
Am I wrong to assume this basically means "good academic standing" which is like a 2.0 or 2.5 at most schools?

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LeDique
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby LeDique » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:22 pm

I would think so, but I'd prefer not to assume anything. May as well just shoot off an e-mail and ask them exactly what that means. As in, I'm going to tomorrow morning.

justadude55
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby justadude55 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:10 pm

now that you have these big scholarships, what schools outside of the top 5 would you be willing to pay sticker at?

when do we need to decide by? i have not actually seen my letter.

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vegenator
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby vegenator » Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:19 pm

justadude55 wrote:now that you have these big scholarships, what schools outside of the top 5 would you be willing to pay sticker at?

when do we need to decide by? i have not actually seen my letter.



"To accept our offer, you need only respond in writing to lawadmis@indiana.edu. You may respond any time but no later than 04/01/2011. Unlike many law schools, we do not require a deposit. Our tradition is to accept your word as an aspirant to the legal profession. Upon receipt of your acceptance, we will send you more detailed information to help with your transition to Bloomington and the law school community."

I personally would only pay sticker at YHS, but that's not happening.... :wink:

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chrisnashville
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby chrisnashville » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:47 am

Got my acceptance letter a week or so ago, but add another to the 120k scholarship boat. Making it rain, indeed... I imagine our class could be quite a competitive group, if we all take the money :D

I was in Bloomington the week before, randomly, for a wedding. Seemed like a nice town, though I intend to make an official visit soon. All I remember was this place Kilroy's... and that was blurry :|

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danquayle
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby danquayle » Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:39 am

pereira6 wrote:
Lwoods wrote:


My scholarship is indicated as "$120,000...to be divided equally over three years..." Those who received full tuition likely had the wording of full tuition in their letter and have said as much in this thread. On LSN they probably post $129,000 or something in that range.

The distinction is important, as pointed out earlier, because full-tuition, in addition to being a few thousand more first year, also allows for the scholarship amount to increase should tuition increase. The set amount does not.


I now apologize! I will correct my LSN to reflect the exact amount. Seems slightly odd they would offer scholarships that are so close to full-tuition.

I should have looked through the thread initially, I only didn't because I'm on dial-up internet (home is a scary place, folks) and that would take forever haha. Congrats to everyone!


Why surprised? It's honestly a bit of a bait and switch wherein they lead you to believe you've essentially got a full ride and then bump the tuition up without pro rating the scholarship. I don't mean that in a disparaging way, as its become somewhat common place, and at least IU has lenient GPA requirements.

I posted before, I started at IU with about 12,500 scholarship on what was then stated as about 26,000 in tuition. By the time I graduated, it was nearly $40k. so it went from just under a half scholarship to just over a quarter scholarship in 3 years. I'd expect most of you to be looking at $50k in tuition by the time you graduate, so plan for about 10-20k more in expenses than what you're budgeting right now. Keep in mind that they raised tuition about 25% in one year before and could easily do it again (environment and relative school standing permitting)

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chrisnashville
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby chrisnashville » Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:00 pm

danquayle wrote:Why surprised? It's honestly a bit of a bait and switch wherein they lead you to believe you've essentially got a full ride and then bump the tuition up without pro rating the scholarship. I don't mean that in a disparaging way, as its become somewhat common place, and at least IU has lenient GPA requirements.

I posted before, I started at IU with about 12,500 scholarship on what was then stated as about 26,000 in tuition. By the time I graduated, it was nearly $40k. so it went from just under a half scholarship to just over a quarter scholarship in 3 years. I'd expect most of you to be looking at $50k in tuition by the time you graduate, so plan for about 10-20k more in expenses than what you're budgeting right now. Keep in mind that they raised tuition about 25% in one year before and could easily do it again (environment and relative school standing permitting)


I've read some older IU threads (last year's admitted students) about financial aid folks talking 10% increases in coming years, which is incredible. It did put a damper on my initial excitement, but $120k is $120k. It'll likely out-do most all of my other scholarships, given the narrow range of schools I applied to.

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Lwoods
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby Lwoods » Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:46 pm

chrisnashville wrote:
danquayle wrote:Why surprised? It's honestly a bit of a bait and switch wherein they lead you to believe you've essentially got a full ride and then bump the tuition up without pro rating the scholarship. I don't mean that in a disparaging way, as its become somewhat common place, and at least IU has lenient GPA requirements.

I posted before, I started at IU with about 12,500 scholarship on what was then stated as about 26,000 in tuition. By the time I graduated, it was nearly $40k. so it went from just under a half scholarship to just over a quarter scholarship in 3 years. I'd expect most of you to be looking at $50k in tuition by the time you graduate, so plan for about 10-20k more in expenses than what you're budgeting right now. Keep in mind that they raised tuition about 25% in one year before and could easily do it again (environment and relative school standing permitting)


I've read some older IU threads (last year's admitted students) about financial aid folks talking 10% increases in coming years, which is incredible. It did put a damper on my initial excitement, but $120k is $120k. It'll likely out-do most all of my other scholarships, given the narrow range of schools I applied to.


Yeah, I just wonder how much higher it can go. At $43k/year OOS, it's already higher than UIUC ($40k) and OSU ($39k). Michigan is $46k/year, but it's in the T14...

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TommyK
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby TommyK » Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:51 pm

Lwoods wrote:
chrisnashville wrote:
danquayle wrote:Why surprised? It's honestly a bit of a bait and switch wherein they lead you to believe you've essentially got a full ride and then bump the tuition up without pro rating the scholarship. I don't mean that in a disparaging way, as its become somewhat common place, and at least IU has lenient GPA requirements.

I posted before, I started at IU with about 12,500 scholarship on what was then stated as about 26,000 in tuition. By the time I graduated, it was nearly $40k. so it went from just under a half scholarship to just over a quarter scholarship in 3 years. I'd expect most of you to be looking at $50k in tuition by the time you graduate, so plan for about 10-20k more in expenses than what you're budgeting right now. Keep in mind that they raised tuition about 25% in one year before and could easily do it again (environment and relative school standing permitting)


I've read some older IU threads (last year's admitted students) about financial aid folks talking 10% increases in coming years, which is incredible. It did put a damper on my initial excitement, but $120k is $120k. It'll likely out-do most all of my other scholarships, given the narrow range of schools I applied to.


Yeah, I just wonder how much higher it can go. At $43k/year OOS, it's already higher than UIUC ($40k) and OSU ($39k). Michigan is $46k/year, but it's in the T14...


I keep going back and forth on this. On one hand, I pray that we're nearing a ceiling, or at least a pain threshold that will cause schools to slow down and stop using law schools as a budget deficit-filler. But I keep getting shown consistent evidence that people are idiots, especially when it comes to their finances. I am having trouble imagining Indiana matching tuition costs with the schools out in CA and NYC with a straight face. Never underestimate's somebody's ability and willingness to defer financial hell to pursue shortterm happiness.

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danquayle
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby danquayle » Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:51 pm

TommyK wrote:
Lwoods wrote:
chrisnashville wrote:
danquayle wrote:Why surprised? It's honestly a bit of a bait and switch wherein they lead you to believe you've essentially got a full ride and then bump the tuition up without pro rating the scholarship. I don't mean that in a disparaging way, as its become somewhat common place, and at least IU has lenient GPA requirements.

I posted before, I started at IU with about 12,500 scholarship on what was then stated as about 26,000 in tuition. By the time I graduated, it was nearly $40k. so it went from just under a half scholarship to just over a quarter scholarship in 3 years. I'd expect most of you to be looking at $50k in tuition by the time you graduate, so plan for about 10-20k more in expenses than what you're budgeting right now. Keep in mind that they raised tuition about 25% in one year before and could easily do it again (environment and relative school standing permitting)


I've read some older IU threads (last year's admitted students) about financial aid folks talking 10% increases in coming years, which is incredible. It did put a damper on my initial excitement, but $120k is $120k. It'll likely out-do most all of my other scholarships, given the narrow range of schools I applied to.


Yeah, I just wonder how much higher it can go. At $43k/year OOS, it's already higher than UIUC ($40k) and OSU ($39k). Michigan is $46k/year, but it's in the T14...


I keep going back and forth on this. On one hand, I pray that we're nearing a ceiling, or at least a pain threshold that will cause schools to slow down and stop using law schools as a budget deficit-filler. But I keep getting shown consistent evidence that people are idiots, especially when it comes to their finances. I am having trouble imagining Indiana matching tuition costs with the schools out in CA and NYC with a straight face. Never underestimate's somebody's ability and willingness to defer financial hell to pursue shortterm happiness.


Well, like I said. It's all about the market. Some extent tuition being on par with "superior" schools gives the impression that Indiana sees itself as a "peer" in terms of quality. I've actually read a fair amount of research that states education, at a certain level, education becomes a Veblen good. (Becomes seen as more valuable/exclusive the more expensive.)

Indiana:
2007-2008 2006-2007
Tuition: $34,486 $30,311


Mchigan:

2007-2008 2006-2007
Tuition: $41,949 $38,502

It does appear, that Indiana has been narrowly closing the gap with Michigan. I think this is directly a result of the notion that they are now a higher echelon public law school. While you're right in suggesting Michigan is their "ceiling", if Michigan goes up, so does Indiana.

Also, I think Indiana has a pretty clever marketing scheme. They jack up their tuition massively, then give nearly everyone some kind of scholarship. This gives the applicant that the impression they're getting a deal, but in reality Indiana's average take home from each student is probably about the same as any other non N/M Big 10 law school. If School X charges $40,000, giving out an average of $20,000 in scholarships while school Y charges $30,000 but only gives out an average of $10,000, they're both charging the same average rate, but School X may sound more generous/endowed (more scholarships) and also more exclusive (higher ticket price.)

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giddybiscuit
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby giddybiscuit » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:10 pm

One thing that really bothered me when I was applying to IU was the "family" section on the app. My sister went to IU as an undergrad, but the app only let you list relatives who've gone to the law school!

Not that it would have helped any, I'm sure.

I've never visited Bloomington, but my sister tells me it's the best college town she's been in (she went to several different colleges for her undergrad)

CanadianWolf
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:15 pm

In order to curtail law school tuition increases, lenders need to limit law school loan amounts (similiar to what banks had to do on real estate loans). Unfortunately, however, this is not likely to happen since student loans are exempt from bankruptcy, thus lenders realize that there is little risk of extending too much credit.

P.S. The best chance for meaningful reform in the area of student loans & tuition may come as a result of the abuses of "for profit" undergraduate & technical schools which have abused students & government backed student loans.

iowalum
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby iowalum » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:09 pm

Not that arguing about tuition increases isn't important, but has anyone else gotten a response from adcom? I'd assume it would take them a while to get back after break, but I am anxious to hear back!

justadude55
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby justadude55 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:00 pm

regarding the jacking up tuition, is there something makes them worth more than w&m

also, i disagree their marketing scheme is to trick people into thinking they get a bargain. i think it's to get more high scoring students, and trick lower scoring ones into paying their tuition for them.

even at 120k, 3-5k per year for law school is very inexpensive.

Fark-o-vision
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby Fark-o-vision » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:04 pm

justadude55 wrote:regarding the jacking up tuition, is there something makes them worth more than w&m

also, i disagree their marketing scheme is to trick people into thinking they get a bargain. i think it's to get more high scoring students, and trick lower scoring ones into paying their tuition for them.

even at 120k, 3-5k per year for law school is very inexpensive.


Employment data found elsewhere would suggest "no."

justadude55
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby justadude55 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:07 pm

yeah gonna have a big decision to make about what school at sticker is worth the 120k scholly.

Fark-o-vision
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby Fark-o-vision » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:17 pm

They need to start using some of that endowment money to attract interviews. Even if they can't assure any hires, at least getting a few more biglaw firms on campus to interview a handful of students would provide an opportunity.

not at all sure how you create the adequate incentive, but I'm sure it could be done.

justadude55
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby justadude55 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:19 pm

girls on trampolines.

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kk19131
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby kk19131 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:24 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:In order to curtail law school tuition increases, lenders need to limit law school loan amounts (similiar to what banks had to do on real estate loans). Unfortunately, however, this is not likely to happen since student loans are exempt from bankruptcy, thus lenders realize that there is little risk of extending too much credit.

P.S. The best chance for meaningful reform in the area of student loans & tuition may come as a result of the abuses of "for profit" undergraduate & technical schools which have abused students & government backed student loans.



:!:

justadude55
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby justadude55 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:24 pm

Fark-o-vision wrote:They need to start using some of that endowment money to attract interviews. Even if they can't assure any hires, at least getting a few more biglaw firms on campus to interview a handful of students would provide an opportunity.

not at all sure how you create the adequate incentive, but I'm sure it could be done.

I'm actually going to law school because I think it will put me over the top for a McDonalds managerial position (11/hr + benefits!!!!!!!) so hopefully we can get some regional managers to come down there and actively recruit.

Sandro
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby Sandro » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:38 pm

damn I wish I would have had my 167 in Oct. Seems like 167 + any GPA = 120k+

hopefully they keep the money rolling for the mid december applicants

Fark-o-vision
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Re: IU Bloomington Class of 2014

Postby Fark-o-vision » Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:32 am

justadude55 wrote:
Fark-o-vision wrote:They need to start using some of that endowment money to attract interviews. Even if they can't assure any hires, at least getting a few more biglaw firms on campus to interview a handful of students would provide an opportunity.

not at all sure how you create the adequate incentive, but I'm sure it could be done.

I'm actually going to law school because I think it will put me over the top for a McDonalds managerial position (11/hr + benefits!!!!!!!) so hopefully we can get some regional managers to come down there and actively recruit.


I think you're facing t6 or bust, bro.




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