IU Bloomington Class of 2014 Forum

[danquayle]

I'm not trying to put down IU. My argument was that there's no reason schools ranked around IU are going to come close to 120k when there's no real reason to do so. It's not like those schools are going to plummet b/c IU snatched up some high numbers.

That is not necessarily true. Indiana might have a median LSAT score of 168+ next year.

IU most likely didn't blow their load early either. It would be smart to try to keep this pace up for a few years, and they probably know that. Not everyone who got 120k+ will be attending, and I don't think they used up their entire donation towards this year. They probably will be doing the same thing for at least three years, and by that point they'll have a nice pool of quality individuals who turned down T14s for close to full rides or more. Result = higher ranking for more than one year.

IU already has a ranking that's higher than their actual class profile merits. Any additional boost they get from improving their median LSAT will just be gravy.

[danquayle]

What are the chances a similarly-ranked school would try to match a $120K offer from IUB? Do you think every other school knows that someone in the IUB admissions office has lost it and handed out free rides to half the admitted class?

I don't see other schools around it coming close to that. The reason IU is giving out so much is because it essentially hit a scholarship jackpot from a donor. A lot of the schools around it are either state funded or notorious for not giving much. Also, who would really want to spend 3 years in Bloomington over some of the other cities that the schools ranked near IU are in. There are definite quality of life and networking advantages to the other schools that IU can't compete with.

Plenty of people, including myself. It's an hour away from Indianapolis. It's not bad in job placing outside of Indiana. It's super cheap to live there. Bloomington is in south Indiana so it's actually a pretty temperate climate (huge for someone like me who hates winter).

So what if IU has the money to give out for scholarships, and they're doing so? It's not like anyone's being offered $$$ from a TTT, we're talking about a highly ranked school here. None of those schools has a obvious location advantage that would sway a large amount of people from IU for significantly less $$$. Probably sway some, but it's not absurd to take IU at good money.

Just because you personally wouldn't doesn't mean most people would do the same, is all I'm saying.

This.

I'm also not sure Iowa City, IA; Madison, WI; South Bend, IN and Athens, GA are such obvious winners over Bloomington... And, while I imagine Davis, CA is lovely, is it worth the extra $100k? (UCDavis OOS sticker vs. IUB OOS $120k scholarship recipient).

Don't underestimate the freedom graduating with minimal debt gives you.

South Bend kind of blows and Iowa City is very meh.

You have to look at the actual school IU is competing with. Their immediate goal is to improve amongst public schools Big Ten schools. IU isn't in direct competition with BC or GW, because those schools cater to different types people: East Coast versus Midwest, big city versus college town, high COL versus low COL, public versus private etc...

Indiana is trying to pass up Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin and Minnesota because those are the schools that will steal away Indiana targets. Those schools are trying to maintain their status while also improve further. If you don't think Illinois is worried about being passed by Indiana, you're mistaken. Even if Indiana isn't stealing away Illinois's best students, they are likely taking previous Illinois admits who would've paid full or close to full tuition. That means less and less money in Illinois's coffers to give to their top targets.

[pereira6]

South Bend kind of blows and Iowa City is very meh.

You have to look at the actual school IU is competing with. Their immediate goal is to improve amongst public schools Big Ten schools. IU isn't in direct competition with BC or GW, because those schools cater to different types people: East Coast versus Midwest, big city versus college town, high COL versus low COL, public versus private etc...

Indiana is trying to pass up Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin and Minnesota because those are the schools that will steal away Indiana targets. Those schools are trying to maintain their status while also improve further. If you don't think Illinois is worried about being passed by Indiana, you're mistaken. Even if Indiana isn't stealing away Illinois's best students, they are likely taking previous Illinois admits who would've paid full or close to full tuition. That means less and less money in Illinois's coffers to give to their top targets.

Very true. Competition in the 20's and 30's adds some regional flavor to the competition. The top 18ish compete with each other for top applicants--the applicants choose what schools will get them the top jobs and for the best bang for the buck. Where the school is is not as important (important note: I'm not saying it isn't important. Somebody who wants to work in Cali probably would pick Berkeley over NYU if given the opportunity. However, if I want to work in New York City I'm not necessarily picking NYU sticker over Michigan for a bit of scholly, because Michigan can place there plenty fine).

When you get down in the T20 and T30, people have to choose a region they want to work in as well, because the schools have a harder and harder time placing employment the lower you go down the rankings. Obviously, in the T20 and T30 they still place okay outside of their market, but you get the point. Where a school way down in the rankings only has a decent placement in the direct vicinity of the law school, a school in the T20-30 has a decent placement in a tri-state area, region, whatever.

Simply put: Indiana isn't really competing with Emory for applicants, because many of the applicants for those schools chose them for the region. I personally didn't care about the region, but it can't be denied it's an important factor for those schools.

For what it's worth: I was offered a full scholly from Illinois and Indiana, and I consider the two to be peer schools. If I choose a school with a full ride, it will be a tough decision between the two (unless Vandy or USC makes me a lucky, lucky man )

[KingRajesh]

When does IU start sending out admissions packets?

I submitted in late November, haven't heard anything since the Application Complete email.

[Fark-o-vision]

From what I read, and I could be wrong, the donation was made in such a way that it could only be used on scholarships, and it is designed to last "in perpetuity."

[superflush]

You have to look at the actual school IU is competing with. Their immediate goal is to improve amongst public schools Big Ten schools. IU isn't in direct competition with BC or GW, because those schools cater to different types people: East Coast versus Midwest, big city versus college town, high COL versus low COL, public versus private etc...

Indiana is trying to pass up Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin and Minnesota because those are the schools that will steal away Indiana targets. Those schools are trying to maintain their status while also improve further. If you don't think Illinois is worried about being passed by Indiana, you're mistaken. Even if Indiana isn't stealing away Illinois's best students, they are likely taking previous Illinois admits who would've paid full or close to full tuition. That means less and less money in Illinois's coffers to give to their top targets.

This

[TommyK]

I'm not trying to put down IU. My argument was that there's no reason schools ranked around IU are going to come close to 120k when there's no real reason to do so. It's not like those schools are going to plummet b/c IU snatched up some high numbers.

That is not necessarily true. Indiana might have a median LSAT score of 168+ next year.

A median LSAT of 168? If this happens, I'll eat a bug. Maybe a 75th percentile of 167-168, but not a median.

[danquayle]

I'm not trying to put down IU. My argument was that there's no reason schools ranked around IU are going to come close to 120k when there's no real reason to do so. It's not like those schools are going to plummet b/c IU snatched up some high numbers.

That is not necessarily true. Indiana might have a median LSAT score of 168+ next year.

A median LSAT of 168? If this happens, I'll eat a bug. Maybe a 75th percentile of 167-168, but not a median.

Their ceiling is a 166 for this term. I'm hoping they at least inch up to 165. I thought for sure they'd hit it last year, because they gave tons of money then.

[Sandro]

If you look on this thread, not everyone who applied to IU or got a scholarship is going to end up there. So while people with 167+ lsats and good GPAs might have been showered with money, how many of them would turn down a t-14 for IU ?

I'm just glad I have a 167.

[CanadianWolf]

How many would turn down a top 15 ?

[iowalum]

First - I firmly believe that graduating without a ton of debt is a HUGE benefit. People seem to think that if you don't go to T14 you are automatically not going to be successful, but there's no guarantee that you will get the dream job, and not having to chase BIGlaw to pay off your 200K debt gives you more options.

Second - What are your predictions about money for 164, etc.? It seems like they've drawn a line at 165 and given everyone above it 120K. I am really hoping they don't go from almost full-ride to nothing because it's not strictly above the median.

[CanadianWolf]

LSN reports a 163 LSAT with a 3.99 GPA getting $15,000 this cycle. Not sure, but I think that means $5,000 a year.

[iowalum]

That seems like a ridiculous jump. I understand they are trying to raise their median, but at least 164 is not bringing down the median... I would be annoyed if one point meant I got 100K less.

[pereira6]

I am 99% sure I would take Illinois/IU full ride over anything below MVP at sticker.

[danquayle]

That seems like a ridiculous jump. I understand they are trying to raise their median, but at least 164 is not bringing down the median... I would be annoyed if one point meant I got 100K less.

Well, medians are tricky. If 165 is a median, a 164 very well might bring down the median. In fact, if you're at that point, a 164 is no better than a 144.

168
165
165
165
164
164
164

The median is 165. If you add a 164:

168
165
165
165
164
164
164
164

The median is (165+164/2) 164.5. If you add a 144 instead:

168
165
165
165
164
164
164
144

The median is still (165+164/2) = 164.5. Finally, if you add another 165.

168
165
165
165
165
164
164
164

The median remains at 165.

I've actually read dozens of articles that state that Law schools ought to just shoot for super high GPAs, awful LSAT and compelling stories for the bottom 25% of their LSAT class, because ultimately their LSAT is irrelevant. if 76 out of 100 of your class have a 177 LSAT, and the rest have 140 LSATs, your median is still going to be 177 and your range will still be 177-177.

So...

If you're worried about your median, and your median is already pretty well set at 164 and a 163/3.9 is no better to you than 140/3.9. And chances are there are a lot more 140/3.9s out there, so you have a bigger pool to find a "diversity candidate" amongst those.


It's all pretty ridiculous I know, but law school is all about gaming the US News nowadays, and if they're going to game them, the yes a 164 can be wildly more valuable than 163.

[Sandro]

I think as schools rely more on the rankings (which they are, imo) splitters become more valuable. Like a previous poster said, schools can fill the bottom of their class with the sob stories high GPA/low lsats, and just stock up on as best LSAT scores they can get. Splitters become more valuable as their GPA is offset by the higher GPAs at the bottom, raising their LSAT.

[superflush]

They are changing things up this cycle.
Splitters with something like a 167 3.0 weren't considered this valuable for the last cycle.
Now, apparently, that is a near-full-ride value.
Their strategy last year gave them full-ride students in the 164+ 3.8+ range with the end result being that they were unable to raise the median LSAT.
This time they are going more aggressively after raising the median LSAT (by conceding the GPA issue with some people and giving money to high LSAT low GPA splitters).

[Sandro]

I fit the profile of some of the 105/120ks theyve been giving out as a splitter, I would be very hard pressed to turn down 100k+ from IU.

[Barbie]

Thats what must have happened with me and Illinois-- I bring down both medians but maybe they chose someone with a compelling back story, since SOMEONE has to bring down the medians. That was a good point.

[TatteredDignity]

I went LSAC complete on 1/3 but have yet to receive an email of any kind... anyone else have a similar experience?

[Sandro]

I went LSAC complete on 1/3 but have yet to receive an email of any kind... anyone else have a similar experience?

Wait 7-10 days for your email

[TatteredDignity]

From now, or from the 3rd? A month seems like a long time, but what do I know.

[TatteredDignity]

Apparently, they were just waiting for me to whine about it on the internet. Just got the email 5 minutes ago. Resume your usual activities.

[FromtheD]

Anybody from Michigan going to this IU Law event in Ann Arbor? Got an email last week about meeting for dinner and drinks with Alumni/other Admitted Students.

[thmgoodw]

Anybody from Michigan going to this IU Law event in Ann Arbor? Got an email last week about meeting for dinner and drinks with Alumni/other Admitted Students.

When is it? I'm an IU law alum and live in the area.