SMU 2011

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12thman2011
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby 12thman2011 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:02 pm

Baylor is a great school for litigation, and it is difficult but you will be prepared to enter a courtroom when you get out. Like I said earlier though Waco sucks and there is no sugarcoating it. This is coming from someone who knows Waco, and grew up in a town of less than 1,000 and doesn't mind having nothing to do.

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brose
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby brose » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:13 pm

I've heard the 3L year at Baylor is the worst.

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skirschner1
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby skirschner1 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:20 pm

brose wrote:I've heard the 3L year at Baylor is the worst.

Heard the same thing from a recent Baylor grad

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kalvano
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby kalvano » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:46 pm

Various points -

Baylor makes you do all kinds of extra work, especially your 3L year when you should be networking. I believe Baylor requires around 122 hours of work, whereas standard is 87 hours.

Baylor is in Waco. Waco sucks.

Baylor is in Waco, which also presents a problem in that you aren't really close to any major city for purposes of internships and such. For instance, I can do judicial internships during the semester at SMU, but that would be much harder to do in Waco. There simply isn't much opportunity.

Baylor will also lag behind the 3 big schools in Texas in terms of placement. UT will place all over, UofH will place in Houston, SMU will place in Dallas. Baylor kind of gets whatever is left. It's not as bad as something like Texas Tech, but I'd much rather be at a school that serves a direct market.

Law school is hard enough. Why go to a school (and not even a top-tier school) that prides itself on being insanely difficult and fostering a cutthroat atmosphere?

Baylor is in Waco. Waco sucks.

Baylor has been steadily falling in the rankings and there is no reason to think it will raise itself up. While rankings aren't super important at this level of school, going to a school steadily falling is not a god thing.

Also, Waco sucks.

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swiftwings88
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby swiftwings88 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:04 pm

kalvano wrote:Various points -

Baylor makes you do all kinds of extra work, especially your 3L year when you should be networking. I believe Baylor requires around 122 hours of work, whereas standard is 87 hours.

Baylor is in Waco. Waco sucks.

Baylor is in Waco, which also presents a problem in that you aren't really close to any major city for purposes of internships and such. For instance, I can do judicial internships during the semester at SMU, but that would be much harder to do in Waco. There simply isn't much opportunity.

Baylor will also lag behind the 3 big schools in Texas in terms of placement. UT will place all over, UofH will place in Houston, SMU will place in Dallas. Baylor kind of gets whatever is left. It's not as bad as something like Texas Tech, but I'd much rather be at a school that serves a direct market.

Law school is hard enough. Why go to a school (and not even a top-tier school) that prides itself on being insanely difficult and fostering a cutthroat atmosphere?

Baylor is in Waco. Waco sucks.

Baylor has been steadily falling in the rankings and there is no reason to think it will raise itself up. While rankings aren't super important at this level of school, going to a school steadily falling is not a god thing.

Also, Waco sucks.


Okay, I think I understand what you are driving at. The problems you outlined aren't big ones for me, but they are negatives. Can you give me some positives though on SMU?

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sceva31st
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby sceva31st » Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:09 pm

Since I plan on applying to SMU in December, I thought I would say hi and good luck to all!

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swiftwings88
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby swiftwings88 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:14 pm

sceva31st wrote:Since I plan on applying to SMU in December, I thought I would say hi and good luck to all!


Good luck to you as well!

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kalvano
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby kalvano » Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:17 pm

swiftwings88 wrote:Okay, I think I understand what you are driving at. The problems you outlined aren't big ones for me, but they are negatives. Can you give me some positives though on SMU?


SMU is going to have much, much better connections, particularly for Biglaw (it actually places in Biglaw well outside its rank) and for internship opportunities simply due to the sheer size of Dallas.

SMU scholarships only require remaining "in good standing". And they are fairly generous.

SMU is actually really pleasant to be at. People are nice.

Your odds of getting a well-paying job from SMU are much better.

The whole "Baylor turns out good litigators" thing is overrated. Being in the city and making connections via internships and proximity will outweigh going to a "good litigation" school. It's sort of like specialty rankings. It's wonderful PR, but of no real material value.

Dallas doesn't suck as much as Waco.

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swiftwings88
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby swiftwings88 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:28 pm

kalvano wrote:
swiftwings88 wrote:Okay, I think I understand what you are driving at. The problems you outlined aren't big ones for me, but they are negatives. Can you give me some positives though on SMU?


SMU is going to have much, much better connections, particularly for Biglaw (it actually places in Biglaw well outside its rank) and for internship opportunities simply due to the sheer size of Dallas.

SMU scholarships only require remaining "in good standing". And they are fairly generous.

SMU is actually really pleasant to be at. People are nice.

Your odds of getting a well-paying job from SMU are much better.

The whole "Baylor turns out good litigators" thing is overrated. Being in the city and making connections via internships and proximity will outweigh going to a "good litigation" school. It's sort of like specialty rankings. It's wonderful PR, but of no real material value.

Dallas doesn't suck as much as Waco.


Alright, thanks much. SMU has a significant benefit for me as I already live in Dallas. Can you give me any idea of whether or how much scholarship money i might get at SMU? 3.53, gpa, 165 LSAT. If I get anything from SMU you've got me pretty well convinced.

merc280
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby merc280 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:18 pm

I hope to get into SMU some how. Might not get in by applying the first time, but I'll try transferring. Not banking on it though since it is much difficult then getting in the regular way. as a side note, is it bad to write a why X essay for schools that dont require/suggest them?

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Thirteen
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby Thirteen » Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:27 pm

merc280 wrote:I hope to get into SMU some how. Might not get in by applying the first time, but I'll try transferring. Not banking on it though since it is much difficult then getting in the regular way. as a side note, is it bad to write a why X essay for schools that dont require/suggest them?


Send one, unless the application explicitly states a limit on which additional materials can be submitted.

merc280
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby merc280 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:39 pm

Thirteen wrote:
merc280 wrote:I hope to get into SMU some how. Might not get in by applying the first time, but I'll try transferring. Not banking on it though since it is much difficult then getting in the regular way. as a side note, is it bad to write a why X essay for schools that dont require/suggest them?


Send one, unless the application explicitly states a limit on which additional materials can be submitted.



I was curious because I sent one with my spring 2011 admission app to South Texas and just got my rejection email today so I thought the extra paperwork I sent with my app might have something to do with it.

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kalvano
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby kalvano » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:04 am

swiftwings88 wrote:Alright, thanks much. SMU has a significant benefit for me as I already live in Dallas. Can you give me any idea of whether or how much scholarship money i might get at SMU? 3.53, gpa, 165 LSAT. If I get anything from SMU you've got me pretty well convinced.



Better numbers than me by a bit, and I got close to 60% tuition covered.

Look, don't take some internet strangers word for it. Do some research. But it's not hard to find all that stuff out. There's a reason why they proudly call the law school "Boot Camp". It just seems nuts to me to go to a place that wants to make it as tough as possible. If you want to do litigation, there are plenty of opportunities to train for it before you graduate without having tons of extra mandatory work shoved down your throat.

And if you don't want to do litigation, tough. You still have to do all the extra work.

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swiftwings88
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby swiftwings88 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:03 am

kalvano wrote:
swiftwings88 wrote:Alright, thanks much. SMU has a significant benefit for me as I already live in Dallas. Can you give me any idea of whether or how much scholarship money i might get at SMU? 3.53, gpa, 165 LSAT. If I get anything from SMU you've got me pretty well convinced.



Better numbers than me by a bit, and I got close to 60% tuition covered.

Look, don't take some internet strangers word for it. Do some research. But it's not hard to find all that stuff out. There's a reason why they proudly call the law school "Boot Camp". It just seems nuts to me to go to a place that wants to make it as tough as possible. If you want to do litigation, there are plenty of opportunities to train for it before you graduate without having tons of extra mandatory work shoved down your throat.

And if you don't want to do litigation, tough. You still have to do all the extra work.


Yeah i've seen this stuff around on the internet. I just wanted to get some other people's opinions. Websites say one thing but students say another. I do want to do litigation but i maybe the pros don't outweigh the cons at baylor.

texasforever
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby texasforever » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:29 pm

If you went to Baylor for undergrad then you would know that Waco is fun if you know where to go

I have many friends who are in their first, second, and third years at Baylor. I can only chalk it up to this: if you want to be a Texas litigator, you need to go to Baylor. If you don't, you will be working three times as hard as people at SMU, UH, and UT for a degree that specifically caters to litigation. Practice court in the third year is extremely difficult, and as far as 1L goes, you aren't ever allowed to miss class, you actually have to turn in your briefs to professors, all exams are closed book, closed note, and if you enter in the fall, you will most likely be greeted with hostility from the summer and spring classes because you are a probably a douche.

My two cents. SMU presents a good time without a cutthroat atmosphere, everyone works hard and gets along, and I have enjoyed my time as a 1L (less the past three weeks and the next two).

Sic em bears. Texas bowl.

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kalvano
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby kalvano » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:16 pm

texasforever wrote:if you want to be a Texas litigator, you need to go to Baylor.



Unless you've been accepted to UT, SMU, or UofH.

mrwarre85
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby mrwarre85 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:21 pm

I went to the Houston law school forum thingie and the lady from SMU made me feel like I had a shot at a scholly with a 2.9 164. This blew me away because I had thought I had a small chance of even being admitted--traditional wisdom seems to be, at one median below the other = reject.

Any thoughts on the sanity of this woman?

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bergg007
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby bergg007 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:24 pm

mrwarre85 wrote:I went to the Houston law school forum thingie and the lady from SMU made me feel like I had a shot at a scholly with a 2.9 164. This blew me away because I had thought I had a small chance of even being admitted--traditional wisdom seems to be, at one median below the other = reject.

Any thoughts on the sanity of this woman?



URM?

edit: Just looked at your profile, i think you've got a decent shot because you are a URM. SMU is pretty wonderbread and they like diversity a lot. you are a shoo-in for the PT and I think you've got a solid shot at FT with some/but probably not a ton of money, 10k/yr or more if lucky

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kalvano
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby kalvano » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:31 pm

mrwarre85 wrote:I went to the Houston law school forum thingie and the lady from SMU made me feel like I had a shot at a scholly with a 2.9 164. This blew me away because I had thought I had a small chance of even being admitted--traditional wisdom seems to be, at one median below the other = reject.

Any thoughts on the sanity of this woman?



Probably a good chance at admittance. Scholarship? Maybe a little.

Edit - URM. Probably money to be had.
Last edited by kalvano on Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

mrwarre85
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby mrwarre85 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:46 pm

I'm NDN but don't look very NDN (just tan) for her to guess I was a URM. I didn't say I was a URM, didnt' talk about diversity at all, so to her I was a 164 2.9 whiteboy.

I agree if it was obvious I was a URM then this would have been different, but she didn't know that plus I post this becuase I follow the instructions on the ap and check both white and NDN, plus I provide a diversity statement that does not talk about my heritage because it didn't affect me greatly.

FYI.

bergg007 wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:I went to the Houston law school forum thingie and the lady from SMU made me feel like I had a shot at a scholly with a 2.9 164. This blew me away because I had thought I had a small chance of even being admitted--traditional wisdom seems to be, at one median below the other = reject.

Any thoughts on the sanity of this woman?



URM?

edit: Just looked at your profile, i think you've got a decent shot because you are a URM. SMU is pretty wonderbread and they like diversity a lot. you are a shoo-in for the PT and I think you've got a solid shot at FT with some/but probably not a ton of money, 10k/yr or more if lucky

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swiftwings88
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby swiftwings88 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:48 pm

texasforever wrote:I can only chalk it up to this: if you want to be a Texas litigator, you need to go to Baylor.


This is not true. Baylor has an excellent litigation program, but other schools in TX, most notably the top three schools all have better hiring prospects than baylor.

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Thirteen
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby Thirteen » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:50 pm

kalvano wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:I went to the Houston law school forum thingie and the lady from SMU made me feel like I had a shot at a scholly with a 2.9 164. This blew me away because I had thought I had a small chance of even being admitted--traditional wisdom seems to be, at one median below the other = reject.

Any thoughts on the sanity of this woman?



Probably a good chance at admittance. Scholarship? Maybe a little.


This.

Send the admissions committee member you spoke with a follow-up e-mail requesting a fee waiver, then apply and hope for the best. I requested a fee waiver in late December, and was given one within 24 hours of my request.

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bergg007
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby bergg007 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:55 pm

mrwarre85 wrote:I'm NDN but don't look very NDN (just tan) for her to guess I was a URM. I didn't say I was a URM, didnt' talk about diversity at all, so to her I was a 164 2.9 whiteboy.

I agree if it was obvious I was a URM then this would have been different, but she didn't know that plus I post this becuase I follow the instructions on the ap and check both white and NDN, plus I provide a diversity statement that does not talk about my heritage because it didn't affect me greatly.

FYI.

bergg007 wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:I went to the Houston law school forum thingie and the lady from SMU made me feel like I had a shot at a scholly with a 2.9 164. This blew me away because I had thought I had a small chance of even being admitted--traditional wisdom seems to be, at one median below the other = reject.

Any thoughts on the sanity of this woman?



URM?

edit: Just looked at your profile, i think you've got a decent shot because you are a URM. SMU is pretty wonderbread and they like diversity a lot. you are a shoo-in for the PT and I think you've got a solid shot at FT with some/but probably not a ton of money, 10k/yr or more if lucky



milk that URM thing for all it's worth I would

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swiftwings88
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby swiftwings88 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:58 pm

No kidding. I bet UT would have accepted me if I were a female african-american wheelchair bound islamic lesbian.

mrwarre85
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby mrwarre85 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:02 pm

Lol

swiftwings88 wrote:No kidding. I bet UT would have accepted me if I were a female african-american wheelchair bound islamic lesbian.




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