SMU 2011

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ebo
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby ebo » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:59 pm

bartleby wrote:
ebo wrote:
bartleby wrote:But the 66% at employment at graduation stat doesn't lie. Worse than UH.

So is UH a better school than Emory?


No, but if I had the choice between going to UH or Emory all things considered, and one of the primary reasons I wanted to go to Emory was because of the great employment prospects, then I'd probably choose UH. I'm not hating on SMU. USN is hating on SMU.

Okay, but you're extrapolating data from an abnormal (and downright awful) legal hiring climate and assuming it will hold true three years from now. I would argue that the primary reason that UH fared marginally better than SMU and Emory in this year's rankings is because the energy sector was did disproportionately well (comparatively speaking) through the recession. That disproportion may not exist in 2013-2014.

bartleby
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby bartleby » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:08 pm

kalvano wrote:
bartleby wrote:
kalvano wrote:
bartleby wrote:Haha, from stalking the SMU threads this past 6 months, I knew you'd post. But the 66% at employment at graduation stat doesn't lie. Worse than UH.


As I said, a lot of schools numbers took a huge dive. It's to be expected. But to see people bail on a historically solid school because of a single dip during a terrible recession is silly.


I agree with you. I was just saying that the most appealing aspect of SMU for me was employment numbers. That #27, 16% on NALP, high median salaries, transparent employment stats, etc. So without it, even if it may be temporary, I'll probably pass.



And what I am saying is that that is a reflection of the past 2 years, not the future. You're assuming that those numbers will hold true through the next 4 years.

But assuming that the school's numbers will stay like that when the economy is changing is silly.


Okay...and what I am saying is from the last two years, 1 out of 3 SMU law school graduates are unemployed at graduation. That means if you look to your right and your left, there's a chance one of you is in the red $75,000 and 3 years. This doesn't take into account the oil/money/Dallas connections that I'm so (unjustifiably) scared about and keep referring to, and the possibility that those employed at graduation aren't employed as lawyers.

Look, I understand the economy shat on everyone. But to keep saying how historically strong a program is and how reputable is kinda silly. Not trying to start a fight.

@ebo I'd rather base my decision on numbers, however faulty, than a bunch of 1L's intuitions on how reputable a school is.


also, i just wanted to add that i'm still considering SMU, not hating on it, just considering it less in light of the recent stats. i sorta wanted to see how people would defend the school.

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Thirteen
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby Thirteen » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:17 pm

bartleby wrote:
kalvano wrote:
bartleby wrote:I agree with you. I was just saying that the most appealing aspect of SMU for me was employment numbers. That #27, 16% on NALP, high median salaries, transparent employment stats, etc. So without it, even if it may be temporary, I'll probably pass.

And what I am saying is that that is a reflection of the past 2 years, not the future. You're assuming that those numbers will hold true through the next 4 years.

But assuming that the school's numbers will stay like that when the economy is changing is silly.


Okay...and what I am saying is from the last two years, 1 out of 3 SMU law school graduates are unemployed at graduation. That means if you look to your right and your left, there's a chance one of you is in the red $75,000 and 3 years. This doesn't take into account the oil/money/Dallas connections that I'm so (unjustifiably) scared about and keep referring to, and the possibility that those employed at graduation aren't employed as lawyers.

Look, I understand the economy shat on everyone. But to keep saying how historically strong a program is and how reputable is kinda silly. Not trying to start a fight.

@ebo I'd rather base my decision on numbers, however faulty, than a bunch of 1L's intuitions on how reputable a school is.


also, i just wanted to add that i'm still considering SMU, not hating on it, just considering it less in light of the recent stats. i sorta wanted to see how people would defend the school.


If you want to work in Dallas, go to SMU.

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Gecko of Doom
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby Gecko of Doom » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:35 pm

.
Last edited by Gecko of Doom on Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bergg007
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby bergg007 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:44 pm

Thirteen wrote:
bartleby wrote:
kalvano wrote:
bartleby wrote:I agree with you. I was just saying that the most appealing aspect of SMU for me was employment numbers. That #27, 16% on NALP, high median salaries, transparent employment stats, etc. So without it, even if it may be temporary, I'll probably pass.

And what I am saying is that that is a reflection of the past 2 years, not the future. You're assuming that those numbers will hold true through the next 4 years.

But assuming that the school's numbers will stay like that when the economy is changing is silly.


Okay...and what I am saying is from the last two years, 1 out of 3 SMU law school graduates are unemployed at graduation. That means if you look to your right and your left, there's a chance one of you is in the red $75,000 and 3 years. This doesn't take into account the oil/money/Dallas connections that I'm so (unjustifiably) scared about and keep referring to, and the possibility that those employed at graduation aren't employed as lawyers.

Look, I understand the economy shat on everyone. But to keep saying how historically strong a program is and how reputable is kinda silly. Not trying to start a fight.

@ebo I'd rather base my decision on numbers, however faulty, than a bunch of 1L's intuitions on how reputable a school is.


also, i just wanted to add that i'm still considering SMU, not hating on it, just considering it less in light of the recent stats. i sorta wanted to see how people would defend the school.


If you want to work in Dallas, go to SMU Unless you can get into UT or another reputable school in the area.



FTFY

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ebo
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby ebo » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:19 pm

bergg007 wrote:
Thirteen wrote:If you want to work in Dallas, go to SMU Unless you can get into UT or another reputable school in the area.



FTFY

Any reason for this, besides the disdain you've already exhibited for SMU in this thread? I was accepted at Emory and spoke with several lawyers at large firms in Dallas and they all said that SMU is the better choice if you want to stay in Dallas. I would've thought that WUSTL or Vandy might have a slight edge, but the people I spoke with said all things considered, you're going to have to have exceptional grades at any of those schools to be considered for the best jobs, and that WUSTL, Vandy, or Emory won't do much for you that SMU can't. And if you can get into those schools you can probably go to SMU for a lot less money anyways. Essentially, if you can't get into a T14 school or Texas (which I guess is actually T14 as of today), then it's tough to beat SMU if you want work in DFW. Now if you want to have options in several markets during OCI and after graduation, then the other schools make more sense.

*obligatory 0L disclaimer*

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kalvano
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby kalvano » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:33 pm

bergg007 wrote:
Thirteen wrote:If you want to work in Dallas, go to SMU Unless you can get into UT or another reputable school in the area.



FTFY



There is no other school in the area.


Also, as to the strength of the school, how many schools had a huge chunk knocked off their employment data and fell many, many spots? A lot.

SMU fell 1 spot. That says that other things about the school are still strong, despite a dip in the data that can be attributed to outside factors they have no control over.

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bergg007
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby bergg007 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:43 pm

ebo wrote:
bergg007 wrote:
Thirteen wrote:If you want to work in Dallas, go to SMU Unless you can get into UT or another reputable school in the area.



FTFY

Any reason for this, besides the disdain you've already exhibited for SMU in this thread? I was accepted at Emory and spoke with several lawyers at large firms in Dallas and they all said that SMU is the better choice if you want to stay in Dallas. I would've thought that WUSTL or Vandy might have a slight edge, but the people I spoke with said all things considered, you're going to have to have exceptional grades at any of those schools to be considered for the best jobs, and that WUSTL, Vandy, or Emory won't do much for you that SMU can't. And if you can get into those schools you can probably go to SMU for a lot less money anyways. Essentially, if you can't get into a T14 school or Texas (which I guess is actually T14 as of today), then it's tough to beat SMU if you want work in DFW. Now if you want to have options in several markets during OCI and after graduation, then the other schools make more sense.

*obligatory 0L disclaimer*



*SMU - 66% employed at graduation*

*horrible clerkship percentages* 2% compared to UT's 11% Emory's 6% and Vandy's 8% even Houston and Baylor beat it for clerkships.

*15.6 - 1 Student to faculty ratio*

Even the dean of SMU law school said "Wouldn’t you like to hear one of these lectures from Dean Attanasio? What does he say? “Before I start, I want to emphasize that this talk is ‘off the record.’ If my students back in Texas knew how we misled them into making a ruinous gamble on higher education, they’d be in open revolt.”

At the schoolwide meeting, our tipster reports that Dean Attanasio had some suggestions for struggling students:

1. Lower your expectations about a job.

2. Upon graduation, take any job you can find. This strategy may lead to a better job in two or more moves.

3. Pass the bar the first time by quitting whatever job you have no later than March."

You may think i am biased against SMU but I wasn't when I first started applying. I was gung-ho, gonna be a pony but my passion for SMU has cooled the more i have learned about them. Good luck to you if you want to go to SMU but I won't be going there.

This might be enlightening for you.
http://abovethelaw.com/2010/10/smu-law- ... l-anybody/

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bergg007
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby bergg007 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:44 pm

kalvano wrote:
bergg007 wrote:
Thirteen wrote:If you want to work in Dallas, go to SMU Unless you can get into UT or another reputable school in the area.



FTFY



There is no other school in the area.


Also, as to the strength of the school, how many schools had a huge chunk knocked off their employment data and fell many, many spots? A lot.

SMU fell 1 spot. That says that other things about the school are still strong, despite a dip in the data that can be attributed to outside factors they have no control over.



no that means the other school in their range aren't burning the world down with their employment stats either. Rankings are comparative, not absolute. And they dropped two spots, not that it really matters.

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Re: SMU 2011

Postby nouseforaname123 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:16 pm

bergg007 wrote:*SMU - 66% employed at graduation*

*horrible clerkship percentages* 2% compared to UT's 11% Emory's 6% and Vandy's 8% even Houston and Baylor beat it for clerkships.

*15.6 - 1 Student to faculty ratio*


LOL. Look at what this douchebag had to say over in the Emory thread:

bergg007 wrote:This drop in rankings changes nothing. Emory is the same school it was yesterday. They still place well on the NLJ 250 and for clerkships. I'd like to see their explanation but I'm still hoping to get accepted and attend. so, yeah if this drop in rankings changes everything for you, you probably were interested in certain schools for the wrong reasons anyway


Emory

*Emory - 65.9% employed at graduation*

Here are a couple more ATL posts to read. Oddly enough, the first post is saying virtually the same things that this douchebag is slamming Dean Attanasio for saying:

* As your individual circumstances permit, apply as broadly as possible within all geographic areas where you have ties and in which you would consider living and working (including secondary markets).
* Maintain an open mind regarding employer type and size; many attorneys have positive experiences and develop the required knowledge and skills while paving the way to their dream job.

****************************************************************************

"Emory Law School Suggests Calm Amidst Economic Storm "

http://abovethelaw.com/2009/07/emory-la ... mic-storm/

"Emory Law Student Lament: ‘We don’t need donuts, we need jobs.’ "

--LinkRemoved--

Please note: I'm not bashing Emory. This post has more to do with this 0L.

bartleby
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby bartleby » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:27 pm

okay, not sure why everyone is getting mad and being defensive about their prospective schools.

still considering SMU, just realizing law school will be scarier than i thought

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kalvano
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby kalvano » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:33 pm

bergg007 wrote:*SMU - 66% employed at graduation*

*horrible clerkship percentages* 2% compared to UT's 11% Emory's 6% and Vandy's 8% even Houston and Baylor beat it for clerkships.

*15.6 - 1 Student to faculty ratio*


SMU is a business-law focused school. It always has been. Clerkships have never been something that most students go for. Hence the NLJ250 placement data that you conveniently leave out because it doesn't support your argument.



bergg007 wrote:Even the dean of SMU law school said "Wouldn’t you like to hear one of these lectures from Dean Attanasio? What does he say? “Before I start, I want to emphasize that this talk is ‘off the record.’ If my students back in Texas knew how we misled them into making a ruinous gamble on higher education, they’d be in open revolt.”


That's a random quote with no attribution in the "article" whatsoever.


bergg007 wrote:At the schoolwide meeting, our tipster reports that Dean Attanasio had some suggestions for struggling students:

1. Lower your expectations about a job.

2. Upon graduation, take any job you can find. This strategy may lead to a better job in two or more moves.

3. Pass the bar the first time by quitting whatever job you have no later than March."

You may think i am biased against SMU but I wasn't when I first started applying. I was gung-ho, gonna be a pony but my passion for SMU has cooled the more i have learned about them. Good luck to you if you want to go to SMU but I won't be going there.


So he told students what every dean is telling students?

"The days of just wandering in to a $160K a year job are over, and you need to come to terms with that."

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ebo
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby ebo » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:35 pm

bergg007 wrote:
ebo wrote:
bergg007 wrote:
Thirteen wrote:If you want to work in Dallas, go to SMU Unless you can get into UT or another reputable school in the area.



FTFY

Any reason for this, besides the disdain you've already exhibited for SMU in this thread? I was accepted at Emory and spoke with several lawyers at large firms in Dallas and they all said that SMU is the better choice if you want to stay in Dallas. I would've thought that WUSTL or Vandy might have a slight edge, but the people I spoke with said all things considered, you're going to have to have exceptional grades at any of those schools to be considered for the best jobs, and that WUSTL, Vandy, or Emory won't do much for you that SMU can't. And if you can get into those schools you can probably go to SMU for a lot less money anyways. Essentially, if you can't get into a T14 school or Texas (which I guess is actually T14 as of today), then it's tough to beat SMU if you want work in DFW. Now if you want to have options in several markets during OCI and after graduation, then the other schools make more sense.

*obligatory 0L disclaimer*

*SMU - 66% employed at graduation*

*horrible clerkship percentages* 2% compared to UT's 11% Emory's 6% and Vandy's 8% even Houston and Baylor beat it for clerkships.

*15.6 - 1 Student to faculty ratio*

Even the dean of SMU law school said "Wouldn’t you like to hear one of these lectures from Dean Attanasio? What does he say? “Before I start, I want to emphasize that this talk is ‘off the record.’ If my students back in Texas knew how we misled them into making a ruinous gamble on higher education, they’d be in open revolt.”

At the schoolwide meeting, our tipster reports that Dean Attanasio had some suggestions for struggling students:

1. Lower your expectations about a job.

2. Upon graduation, take any job you can find. This strategy may lead to a better job in two or more moves.

3. Pass the bar the first time by quitting whatever job you have no later than March."

You may think i am biased against SMU but I wasn't when I first started applying. I was gung-ho, gonna be a pony but my passion for SMU has cooled the more i have learned about them. Good luck to you if you want to go to SMU but I won't be going there.

This might be enlightening for you.
http://abovethelaw.com/2010/10/smu-law- ... l-anybody/

That was enlightening...when I read it five months ago. I don't think it's any secret that the legal job market has been abysmal recently, and that SMU (like every other law school in America) has not been immune to the economic downturn. Hell, W&L only placed 10.5% of its 2010 class in NLJ250 firms, despite their 9.5-to-1 student/faculty ratio :roll:

If you want to go to Emory, then good for you. I withdrew today so hopefully you'll get my spot. I knew that I want to work in DFW after graduation, so SMU makes more sense for me, not to mention it's about $60k cheaper over three years. If I wanted more flexibility across the South and didn't want to live in TX, then Emory would be the obvious choice. I guess it's all about personal preference. But you said that 0Ls who want to work in Dallas should "attend any other reputable school in the area" besides SMU. Besides Texas, which schools are you referring to? That was pretty vague.

And seriously- why all the hate for SMU? I know I'm not attending Baylor but I'm not over in that thread ripping on their employment stats.

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Re: SMU 2011

Postby Kyllo » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:39 pm

Countachlpsx wrote:Application complete 2/16/11. Any thoughts, havent heard anything.


Application complete 1/12/2011 and still haven't heard a thing. :(

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ebo
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby ebo » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:44 pm

bartleby wrote:okay, not sure why everyone is getting mad and being defensive about their prospective schools.

still considering SMU, just realizing law school will be scarier than i thought

In your case, if you're deciding between SMU and UH, you should probably base your decision more on where you'd rather live (Dallas vs. Houston) than one year's USNWR employment percentage numbers. If you want to work in Houston, then UH is an excellent choice.

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kalvano
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby kalvano » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:44 pm

ebo wrote:
bartleby wrote:okay, not sure why everyone is getting mad and being defensive about their prospective schools.

still considering SMU, just realizing law school will be scarier than i thought

In your case, if you're deciding between SMU and UH, you should probably base your decision more on where you'd rather live (Dallas vs. Houston) than one year's USNWR employment percentage numbers. If you want to work in Houston, then UH is an excellent choice.



I believe it's between UGA and SMU, with a preference to live in Dallas.

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bergg007
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby bergg007 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:46 pm

nouseforaname123 wrote:
bergg007 wrote:*SMU - 66% employed at graduation*

*horrible clerkship percentages* 2% compared to UT's 11% Emory's 6% and Vandy's 8% even Houston and Baylor beat it for clerkships.

*15.6 - 1 Student to faculty ratio*


LOL. Look at what this douchebag had to say over in the Emory thread:

bergg007 wrote:This drop in rankings changes nothing. Emory is the same school it was yesterday. They still place well on the NLJ 250 and for clerkships. I'd like to see their explanation but I'm still hoping to get accepted and attend. so, yeah if this drop in rankings changes everything for you, you probably were interested in certain schools for the wrong reasons anyway


Emory

*Emory - 65.9% employed at graduation*

Here are a couple more ATL posts to read. Oddly enough, the first post is saying virtually the same things that this douchebag is slamming Dean Attanasio for saying:

* As your individual circumstances permit, apply as broadly as possible within all geographic areas where you have ties and in which you would consider living and working (including secondary markets).
* Maintain an open mind regarding employer type and size; many attorneys have positive experiences and develop the required knowledge and skills while paving the way to their dream job.

****************************************************************************

"Emory Law School Suggests Calm Amidst Economic Storm "

http://abovethelaw.com/2009/07/emory-la ... mic-storm/

"Emory Law Student Lament: ‘We don’t need donuts, we need jobs.’ "

--LinkRemoved--

Please note: I'm not bashing Emory. This post has more to do with this 0L.




Emory still places 27% into Big law and clerkships compared to 18% for SMU. Vandy places 38% and UT places 38% as well. My point with my post on emory was that it is still a very high quality school. I expect them to be back in the top 25 next year. SMU will still be T50. I think most of you who have responded to me have misunderstood my posts. I do think that SMU is a quality school. I think that they are a solid choice in the T50, but they aren't as good as many of you seem to think. The benefit from a the lay prestige in Dallas and the fratty mentality of Dallas Law. But if you move outside of DFW No one has heard of them outside of the NCAA death penalty.

I stand behind my defense of emory and I Think the same thing applies to SMU. Nothing has changed about the school since yesterday; and yesterday, I wasn't going to attend. And as for the ATL post about Emory, at least the dean didn't say that they swindled their students into attending and that if they were honest about their students job prospects, the students would be in open revolt.

If you want to go to SMU by all means go there, but do so with your eyes open. This thread has shown me a lot about the students who attend there. I've been surprised and disappointed by the rigidity of your opinions about the school. Just look earlier in the thread when myself and a current student said nothing more than the interior facilities at SMU were not that great. People were outraged that anyone would have anything negative to say about their beloved SMU. Seriously guys lighten up.

Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me a douchebag.

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Thirteen
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby Thirteen » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:58 pm

bergg007 wrote:
nouseforaname123 wrote:
bergg007 wrote:*SMU - 66% employed at graduation*

*horrible clerkship percentages* 2% compared to UT's 11% Emory's 6% and Vandy's 8% even Houston and Baylor beat it for clerkships.

*15.6 - 1 Student to faculty ratio*


LOL. Look at what this douchebag had to say over in the Emory thread:

bergg007 wrote:This drop in rankings changes nothing. Emory is the same school it was yesterday. They still place well on the NLJ 250 and for clerkships. I'd like to see their explanation but I'm still hoping to get accepted and attend. so, yeah if this drop in rankings changes everything for you, you probably were interested in certain schools for the wrong reasons anyway


Emory

*Emory - 65.9% employed at graduation*

Here are a couple more ATL posts to read. Oddly enough, the first post is saying virtually the same things that this douchebag is slamming Dean Attanasio for saying:

* As your individual circumstances permit, apply as broadly as possible within all geographic areas where you have ties and in which you would consider living and working (including secondary markets).
* Maintain an open mind regarding employer type and size; many attorneys have positive experiences and develop the required knowledge and skills while paving the way to their dream job.

****************************************************************************

"Emory Law School Suggests Calm Amidst Economic Storm "

http://abovethelaw.com/2009/07/emory-la ... mic-storm/

"Emory Law Student Lament: ‘We don’t need donuts, we need jobs.’ "

--LinkRemoved--

Please note: I'm not bashing Emory. This post has more to do with this 0L.




Emory still places 27% into Big law and clerkships compared to 18% for SMU. Vandy places 38% and UT places 38% as well. My point with my post on emory was that it is still a very high quality school. I expect them to be back in the top 25 next year. SMU will still be T50. I think most of you who have responded to me have misunderstood my posts. I do think that SMU is a quality school. I think that they are a solid choice in the T50, but they aren't as good as many of you seem to think. The benefit from a the lay prestige in Dallas and the fratty mentality of Dallas Law. But if you move outside of DFW No one has heard of them outside of the NCAA death penalty.

I stand behind my defense of emory and I Think the same thing applies to SMU. Nothing has changed about the school since yesterday; and yesterday, I wasn't going to attend. And as for the ATL post about Emory, at least the dean didn't say that they swindled their students into attending and that if they were honest about their students job prospects, the students would be in open revolt.

If you want to go to SMU by all means go there, but do so with your eyes open. This thread has shown me a lot about the students who attend there. I've been surprised and disappointed by the rigidity of your opinions about the school. Just look earlier in the thread when myself and a current student said nothing more than the interior facilities at SMU were not that great. People were outraged that anyone would have anything negative to say about their beloved SMU. Seriously guys lighten up.

Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me a douchebag.


Good luck with your school decision. I'm extremely happy with my choice to attend SMU, because I am sure that I want to work in Dallas. If you are considering working in another market where you don't have personal connections, or get into a T-14 (T-13?), UT, or Vandy, SMU is a great option.

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kalvano
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby kalvano » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:00 pm

bergg007 wrote: think that they are a solid choice in the T50, but they aren't as good as many of you seem to think. The benefit from a the lay prestige in Dallas and the fratty mentality of Dallas Law. But if you move outside of DFW No one has heard of them outside of the NCAA death penalty.



Like Emory is a national school?

No one, to my knowledge, has ever stated that SMU is anything other than a strong regional school, which it is. And it;s not solely confined to D/FW, either.

nouseforaname123
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby nouseforaname123 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:02 pm

bergg007 wrote:Emory still places 27% into Big law and clerkships compared to 18% for SMU. Vandy places 38% and UT places 38% as well. My point with my post on emory was that it is still a very high quality school. I expect them to be back in the top 25 next year. SMU will still be T50. I think most of you who have responded to me have misunderstood my posts. I do think that SMU is a quality school. I think that they are a solid choice in the T50, but they aren't as good as many of you seem to think. The benefit from a the lay prestige in Dallas and the fratty mentality of Dallas Law. But if you move outside of DFW No one has heard of them outside of the NCAA death penalty.


Please, enlighten us as to precisely how good we seem to think SMU is? I think 95% of the people associated with SMU will tell you that it is a regional school. Then they'll tell you that outside of the T14 and UT, SMU is probably the best value for somebody wanting to work in Dallas. You'll even find SMU people such as myself and Kav telling people that want to work in Houston to go to Houston. We have no delusions about the reach of an SMU degree. Please tell us precisely where we are overvaluing SMU.

I stand behind my defense of emory and I Think the same thing applies to SMU. Nothing has changed about the school since yesterday; and yesterday, I wasn't going to attend. And as for the ATL post about Emory, at least the dean didn't say that they swindled their students into attending and that if they were honest about their students job prospects, the students would be in open revolt.


Dean Attanasio never said he swindled anybody. You are paraphrasing Elie Mystal's paraphrase of a tipster's paraphrase of the Dean's comments. (Hint: This is part of what makes you a douchebag). Do you understand that one could very easily paraphrase the Emory emails to sound strikingly similar to how Attanasio's comments have been made out to sound?

Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me a douchebag.


This is absolutely true. But the fact that you dropped into this thread and started trashing the school without any provocation does. And yes, your cheap paraphrase of comments that you didn't hear does amount to trashing the school.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of law do you want to practice?

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ebo
Posts: 311
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby ebo » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:07 pm

bergg007 wrote:Emory still places 27% into Big law and clerkships compared to 18% for SMU. Vandy places 38% and UT places 38% as well. My point with my post on emory was that it is still a very high quality school. I expect them to be back in the top 25 next year. SMU will still be T50. I think most of you who have responded to me have misunderstood my posts. I do think that SMU is a quality school. I think that they are a solid choice in the T50, but they aren't as good as many of you seem to think. The benefit from a the lay prestige in Dallas and the fratty mentality of Dallas Law. But if you move outside of DFW No one has heard of them outside of the NCAA death penalty.

Look, it's no secret that Emory is a better school with options in more markets. Personally, I can't justify paying $60,000 more to go to there when I know I want to work in Dallas after graduation. If someone wasn't sold on living in Texas (and more specifically DFW) after law school, then I wouldn't advise them to go to SMU. But I'm still waiting for you to defend your original point that we should consider "any other reputable school in the area" over SMU for working in Dallas.

bergg007 wrote:I stand behind my defense of emory and I Think the same thing applies to SMU. Nothing has changed about the school since yesterday; and yesterday, I wasn't going to attend.

Thank God for that.

bergg007 wrote:If you want to go to SMU by all means go there, but do so with your eyes open.

I haven't seen many people here who are unrealistic about the current legal job market. No one thinks they're walking into a $160k job after graduation, not at Harvard, not at Emory or Vandy, and certainly not at SMU.

bergg007 wrote:This thread has shown me a lot about the students who attend there. I've been surprised and disappointed by the rigidity of your opinions about the school. Just look earlier in the thread when myself and a current student said nothing more than the interior facilities at SMU were not that great. People were outraged that anyone would have anything negative to say about their beloved SMU. Seriously guys lighten up.

No, a lot of people (myself included) just think there are more important things to consider than the interior quality of buildings- this is law school, not an interior design academy.

bergg007 wrote:Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me a douchebag.

I didn't say you were a douchebag, that was someone else, but I wouldn't bet against it. I really don't see why you feel the need to bag on SMU in a thread for people going there this fall...again, I'm not over in the Baylor thread ripping on their stats.

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JRDallas11
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby JRDallas11 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:37 pm

pokerlaw wrote:Ding 3/15


Did you find out via status checker or snail mail?

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bergg007
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby bergg007 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:38 pm

I'm sorry if i offended anyone or their school. I logged on to this forum simply so that I could see if there was a crazy overreaction to the insignificant two point drop in the rankings. then I saw that someone had said that if you want to be a dallas lawyer, got to SMU. That is patently false. Go to UT for anywhere in texas. I would argue that any big name school in the top 25 could steal jobs from an SMU grad. anyone who jumped into this argument midstream would not realize that i was simply defending my position, and that is why I pointed to the quote, not paraphrase, from the ATL article. The article is about the "test drive" program which is a joke.

I realize that SMU places very well for its ranking, and i think they should be proud of that. But I honestly wonder how many of those jobs are coming in from nepotism and the like. The Clerkship ratings are the cause of that concern for me. Maybe that is self selection, but I doubt it . Everyone knows that clerkships are prestigious and most people who get them have a big law job lined up for as soon as their clerkship ends, often with pay matching for the raises over the duration of the clerkship. I promise i did not come here to bash SMU. Many of you are extremely defensive about your school, And make personal attacks instead of a reasoned response. It is a sad state of affairs that so many people refuse to argue a point and instead are determined to attack a persons character. I have not attacked any of you personally and I don't think i've even defamed the school. I think the Dedman school of Law is a fine institution that well out-places many of it's peers. SMU is a very good school but this forum makes me wonder about the experience I would get as a member of the student body. If this is the kind of discourse one could expect in the classes and amongst the students, I would be worried for anyone who does matriculate.

Thanks for helping me with my law school decision.

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Thirteen
Posts: 23916
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:53 pm

Re: SMU 2011

Postby Thirteen » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:44 pm

bergg007 wrote:I'm sorry if i offended anyone or their school. I logged on to this forum simply so that I could see if there was a crazy overreaction to the insignificant two point drop in the rankings. then I saw that someone had said that if you want to be a dallas lawyer, got to SMU. That is patently false. Go to UT for anywhere in texas. I would argue that any big name school in the top 25 could steal jobs from an SMU grad. anyone who jumped into this argument midstream would not realize that i was simply defending my position, and that is why I pointed to the quote, not paraphrase, from the ATL article. The article is about the "test drive" program which is a joke.

I realize that SMU places very well for its ranking, and i think they should be proud of that. But I honestly wonder how many of those jobs are coming in from nepotism and the like. The Clerkship ratings are the cause of that concern for me. Maybe that is self selection, but I doubt it . Everyone knows that clerkships are prestigious and most people who get them have a big law job lined up for as soon as their clerkship ends, often with pay matching for the raises over the duration of the clerkship. I promise i did not come here to bash SMU. Many of you are extremely defensive about your school, And make personal attacks instead of a reasoned response. It is a sad state of affairs that so many people refuse to argue a point and instead are determined to attack a persons character. I have not attacked any of you personally and I don't think i've even defamed the school. I think the Dedman school of Law is a fine institution that well out-places many of it's peers. SMU is a very good school but this forum makes me wonder about the experience I would get as a member of the student body. If this is the kind of discourse one could expect in the classes and amongst the students, I would be worried for anyone who does matriculate.

Thanks for helping me with my law school decision.


I said the statement about choosing SMU for Dallas. I assumed that anyone reading it would be smart enough to realize that I wasn't saying to choose a regional school over UT, which has national prestige and annually places its graduates in firms across the state. It looks like I assumed wrong.

Also, stop taking shots at our student body. If you're this bothered by what went on this thread, which is tame by TLS standards, I pray that you'll have the nicest boss in the world that only doles out constructive criticism. Otherwise, it seems like you're in for a rude awakening. Like I said earlier, good luck with your decision.

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kalvano
Posts: 11725
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Re: SMU 2011

Postby kalvano » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:48 pm

bergg007 wrote:I saw that someone had said that if you want to be a dallas lawyer, got to SMU. That is patently false.


Not even close, cupcake.

bergg007 wrote:Go to UT for anywhere in texas.


That's true.

bergg007 wrote:I would argue that any big name school in the top 25 could steal jobs from an SMU grad.


And you would be wrong.


bergg007 wrote:I realize that SMU places very well for its ranking, and i think they should be proud of that. But I honestly wonder how many of those jobs are coming in from nepotism and the like. The Clerkship ratings are the cause of that concern for me. Maybe that is self selection, but I doubt it . Everyone knows that clerkships are prestigious and most people who get them have a big law job lined up for as soon as their clerkship ends, often with pay matching for the raises over the duration of the clerkship. I promise i did not come here to bash SMU. Many of you are extremely defensive about your school, And make personal attacks instead of a reasoned response. It is a sad state of affairs that so many people refuse to argue a point and instead are determined to attack a persons character. I have not attacked any of you personally and I don't think i've even defamed the school. I think the Dedman school of Law is a fine institution that well out-places many of it's peers. SMU is a very good school but this forum makes me wonder about the experience I would get as a member of the student body. If this is the kind of discourse one could expect in the classes and amongst the students, I would be worried for anyone who does matriculate.

Thanks for helping me with my law school decision.



The problem with your "argument" is faulty assumptions from the start.




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