Texas Tech v South Texas

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kalvano
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby kalvano » Wed May 12, 2010 5:46 pm

jgrin wrote:[Agreed, but with regards to representation, tex wes has a larger percentage of lawyers in tarrant county than tt does.



It's roughly $30K more expensive, and not worth it.

Tech has name all over the state, Wesleyan gets blank looks from people who live 2 blocks away.

jgrin
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby jgrin » Wed May 12, 2010 5:51 pm

kalvano wrote:
jgrin wrote:[Agreed, but with regards to representation, tex wes has a larger percentage of lawyers in tarrant county than tt does.



It's roughly $30K more expensive, and not worth it.

Tech has name all over the state, Wesleyan gets blank looks from people who live 2 blocks away.


HAHA, like I said before, I agree.

jgrin
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby jgrin » Wed May 12, 2010 5:53 pm

texas man wrote:
jgrin wrote:Here is a list of the schools that dominate the legal markets in Texas:

Houston - ST/UH
Austin - UT
Dallas - SMU
Ft. Worth - UT/Tex Wes.

So, if you want to go to a school where you are recruited secondarily in the major legal markets in Texas, the Texas Tech is your choice. If you want to go to a school where you are the primary recruitee, go to ST, UH, UT, SMU, Tex Wes. If you wish to hold on hope that you can be one of the 5%, 11% (a TT high), 6%, and 2% of the lawyers in these markets, go for it. I wouldn't, but then again, I am rational. The numbers are in black and white. By going to Tech you condemn yourself to being a back-up option for the largest legal markets in the state. If you want to work in a large legal market, DON'T go to Tech. The statistics of Tech in Dallas, Tarrant aren't statistically significant either, because most ST graduates self-select to not go to the Dallas and Tarrant markets because they have so many options in Harris. If this were not the case, and I admit this is impossible to prove, the numbers would be vastly different in both Dallas and Tarrant. Even as it is, the difference between the stats in Dallas and Tarrant between TT and ST aren't large enough to warrant the risk of Tech, when you have such a statistically better chance of succeeding(in terms of being in a large legal market) at ST. Face it, Texas Tech people just don't get it. Probably the reason they will end up there, when better options exist.


I'm not going to respond to any of the invective in this post, but in an attempt to address the rationale of your argument: If I didn't get into UT and I want to work in Austin, should I just give up and not go to law school?


Yes, you have no heart. Rudy does not want to be your friend.

texas man
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby texas man » Wed May 12, 2010 5:58 pm

jgrin wrote:
texas man wrote:
jgrin wrote:Here is a list of the schools that dominate the legal markets in Texas:

Houston - ST/UH
Austin - UT
Dallas - SMU
Ft. Worth - UT/Tex Wes.

So, if you want to go to a school where you are recruited secondarily in the major legal markets in Texas, the Texas Tech is your choice. If you want to go to a school where you are the primary recruitee, go to ST, UH, UT, SMU, Tex Wes. If you wish to hold on hope that you can be one of the 5%, 11% (a TT high), 6%, and 2% of the lawyers in these markets, go for it. I wouldn't, but then again, I am rational. The numbers are in black and white. By going to Tech you condemn yourself to being a back-up option for the largest legal markets in the state. If you want to work in a large legal market, DON'T go to Tech. The statistics of Tech in Dallas, Tarrant aren't statistically significant either, because most ST graduates self-select to not go to the Dallas and Tarrant markets because they have so many options in Harris. If this were not the case, and I admit this is impossible to prove, the numbers would be vastly different in both Dallas and Tarrant. Even as it is, the difference between the stats in Dallas and Tarrant between TT and ST aren't large enough to warrant the risk of Tech, when you have such a statistically better chance of succeeding(in terms of being in a large legal market) at ST. Face it, Texas Tech people just don't get it. Probably the reason they will end up there, when better options exist.


I'm not going to respond to any of the invective in this post, but in an attempt to address the rationale of your argument: If I didn't get into UT and I want to work in Austin, should I just give up and not go to law school?


Yes, you have no heart. Rudy does not want to be your friend.


I thought so.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed May 12, 2010 6:01 pm

texas man wrote:If I didn't get into UT and I want to work in Austin, should I just give up and not go to law school?


Probably

EDIT: Assuming by "want", you mean have a realistic goal.
Last edited by Stringer Bell on Wed May 12, 2010 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kalvano
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby kalvano » Wed May 12, 2010 6:03 pm

texas man wrote:If I didn't get into UT and I want to work in Austin, should I just give up and not go to law school?



If you don't get in to a T14, you might as well shoot yourself, since no attorney in the history of the world has ever been successful unless they graduated from a "name" school.


Hope that's helpful.





All the best,

TLS

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darknightbegins
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby darknightbegins » Wed May 12, 2010 6:07 pm

That was beautiful.

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b.gump81
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby b.gump81 » Wed May 12, 2010 6:09 pm

jgrin wrote:Here is a list of the schools that dominate the legal markets in Texas:

Houston - UT, [strike]ST/UH[/strike] UH, and then ST
Austin - UT
Dallas - SMU
Ft. Worth - UT/[strike]Tex Wes.[/strike]


FTFY

By your own logic, STCL is a bad choice because it is not first pick in any legal market. So why would someone go there? Well here are a couple of possibilites: scholarship money, ties to area, interest in specific program, best option because they did not get into anywhere else...


jgrin wrote:So, if you want to go to a school where you are recruited secondarily in the major legal markets in Texas, the Texas Tech is your choice. If you want to go to a school where you are the primary recruitee, go to ST, UH, UT, SMU, Tex Wes. If you wish to hold on hope that you can be one of the 5%, 11% (a TT high), 6%, and 2% of the lawyers in these markets, go for it. I wouldn't, but then again, I am rational. The numbers are in black and white. By going to Tech you condemn yourself to being a back-up option for the largest legal markets in the state. If you want to work in a large legal market, DON'T go to Tech. The statistics of Tech in Dallas, Tarrant aren't statistically significant either, because most ST graduates self-select to not go to the Dallas and Tarrant markets because they have so many options in Harris. If this were not the case, and I admit this is impossible to prove, the numbers would be vastly different in both Dallas and Tarrant. Even as it is, the difference between the stats in Dallas and Tarrant between TT and ST aren't large enough to warrant the risk of Tech, when you have such a statistically better chance of succeeding(in terms of being in a large legal market) at ST. Face it, Texas Tech people just don't get it. Probably the reason they will end up there, when better options exist.


same points I brought up earlier. Money, interest in specific program, ties to area, or best option. For me it was money, interest in wind energy and litigation, and my ties to the area.

I also want to point out that Tech has its own market, where there is no competition from anyone. West Texas is itself a huge area, and there are tons of small/ midlaw firms, county governments, city governments, wind energy firms, oil and gas firms, etc. Just because you want biglaw and are fine with being stuck in Houston does not mean other applicants don't want to live in West Texas or get non-biglaw jobs in other markets across the state. Good luck at South Texas. Again I'm sorry it is the only place you got accepted, but I think you will find it is a great school and will take you where you want to go (maybe not big law, but it will give you a decent shot for it in Houston). There is no need to be bitter and try to justify your decision by trying to reach for arguments to put down other schools, especially when you have no merit.
Last edited by b.gump81 on Wed May 12, 2010 6:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

texas man
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby texas man » Wed May 12, 2010 6:11 pm

darknightbegins wrote:That was beautiful.


+1

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kalvano
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby kalvano » Wed May 12, 2010 6:11 pm

b.gump81 wrote:I also want to point out that Tech has its own market, where there is no competition from anyone.



There is a very solid reason for that.

jgrin
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby jgrin » Wed May 12, 2010 6:20 pm

b.gump81 wrote:
jgrin wrote:Here is a list of the schools that dominate the legal markets in Texas:

Houston - UT, [strike]ST/UH[/strike] UH, and then ST
Austin - UT
Dallas - SMU
Ft. Worth - UT/[strike]Tex Wes.[/strike]


FTFY

By your own logic, STCL is a bad choice because it is not first pick in any legal market. So why would someone go there? Well here are a couple of possibilites: scholarship money, ties to area, interest in specific program, best option because they did not get into anywhere else...


jgrin wrote:So, if you want to go to a school where you are recruited secondarily in the major legal markets in Texas, the Texas Tech is your choice. If you want to go to a school where you are the primary recruitee, go to ST, UH, UT, SMU, Tex Wes. If you wish to hold on hope that you can be one of the 5%, 11% (a TT high), 6%, and 2% of the lawyers in these markets, go for it. I wouldn't, but then again, I am rational. The numbers are in black and white. By going to Tech you condemn yourself to being a back-up option for the largest legal markets in the state. If you want to work in a large legal market, DON'T go to Tech. The statistics of Tech in Dallas, Tarrant aren't statistically significant either, because most ST graduates self-select to not go to the Dallas and Tarrant markets because they have so many options in Harris. If this were not the case, and I admit this is impossible to prove, the numbers would be vastly different in both Dallas and Tarrant. Even as it is, the difference between the stats in Dallas and Tarrant between TT and ST aren't large enough to warrant the risk of Tech, when you have such a statistically better chance of succeeding(in terms of being in a large legal market) at ST. Face it, Texas Tech people just don't get it. Probably the reason they will end up there, when better options exist.


same points I brought up earlier. Money, interest in specific program, ties to area, or best option. For me it was money, interest in wind energy and litigation, and my ties to the area.

I also want to point out that Tech has its own market, where there is no competition from anyone. West Texas is itself a huge area, and there are tons of small/ midlaw firms, county governments, city governments, wind energy firms, oil and gas firms, etc. Just because you want biglaw and are fine with being stuck in Houston does not mean other applicants don't want to live in West Texas or get non-biglaw jobs in other markets across the state. Good luck at South Texas. Again I'm sorry it is the only place you got accepted, but I think you will find it is a great school and will take you where you want to go (maybe not big law, but it will give you a decent shot for it in Houston). There is no need to be bitter and try to justify your decision by trying to reach for arguments to put down other schools, especially when you have no merit.


You have got to be brain dead. Houston has the most lawyers from ST, then its UH. And I'm so sorry to burst your bubble, but Tex wes has more lawyers in ft. worth than tech. That is straight off the data that was posted earlier in this forum. Hold on, I will use your rhetoric that was utterly dorky and indicates you blog too much, RC Fail... And yes, ST is the first pick in the Houston market, ST grads are the highest number of lawyers in Houston. RC Fail 2. Have fun in those west texas markets cause you aren't going to make it to a major legal market.

wreckem
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby wreckem » Wed May 12, 2010 6:20 pm

Okay lets see

South Texas = $50,000x3 = $150,000
Texas Tech = $30,000x3 = $90,000

South Texas puts 95%+ of its grads in small law, solo practice, etc. Most of those stay in Houston. So that's $45k a year in Houston with $150,000+ debt(don't forget undergrad).

Texas Tech puts grads all over the place and owns the West Texas/Panhandle market, where market rate is ~$75,000. Small law is again in the $45,000 range. Tech Puts about approx. 8-10% in Big Law in major Texas cities. A sizable chunk do make around $75k in the likes of Amarillo, Midland, etc. The majority of Tech grads, though less than STCL, make small law rate. So again based on small law rate, $45k a year in where ever, lets just say West Texas, with $90,000+ debt.

So lets compare $45k in Lubbock goes a lot further than $45k in Houston. In addition, even with IBR, student loan payments will be MUCH higher for the STCL grad working in Houston vs the Tech grad working in West Texas.

To say STCL is a better option, or significantly better option is false.

STCL is the better option for getting a job, any job, in Houston. That's it.

The people I really feel sorry for are the Baylor Grads ranked 20%-last. Great school, poor location, no market of its own, and a brutal academic schedule to go with its enormous price tag.

For the record, I have thoroughly researched Baylor, Tech, STCL, St Mary's and Texas Wes.
Last edited by wreckem on Wed May 12, 2010 6:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.

wreckem
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby wreckem » Wed May 12, 2010 6:21 pm

And really it is

DFW - SMU/UT
Austin - UT
Houston -UH/UT
Last edited by wreckem on Wed May 12, 2010 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lucidity
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby Lucidity » Wed May 12, 2010 6:23 pm

jgrin wrote:
Lucidity wrote:

You were clearly dumb enough to not understand that I was clearly talking about undergraduate institutions, which is why Texas ATM was brought up in the first place. Why in the hell would I ever mention ATM, unless I was talking about undergrad. You went to Texas Tech out of undergrad because of a lack of options, not because it was your choice. Lubbock is everyone in the state's backup, and you know it. You are just in denial of this fact. With regards to law school, you will be screwed there when searching for a summer internship. Even if you do get one in one of the larger markets, your costs will be very high because you would have to move and rent. ST students will have the luxury of already being in the largest legal market in the state. You will have a certain lack of options when it comes to clinics as well. South Texas dominates, along with UH the Houston legal market, while Texas Tech gets the leftovers of the other 3 remaining legal markets. They aren't even significant in the markets that you claim they have a significant influence. THEY GET THE LEFTOVERS OF THE STATE. You are in loser denial. I don't know if it happened to you before you went to Lubbock. If it didn't, then it certainly happened to you once you got there. Have fun fornicating with barn animals for three more years!


The amount of fail in this post alone is just simply delicious. You are so blinded by your strange seething hatred for tech that you grasp at any and all straws you can to defend your irrational position. Newsflash, i didn't go to tech for undergrad. But I AM calling you out for being a douche. You started out sane enough, arguing with actual facts and numbers. But then when the numbers clearly showed that STCL is a one trick pony with only the (albeit large) Houston market and that outside of the comfort blanket of Houston STCL fades precipitously, you get your panties in a twist and pull out the personal attacks. Who gives a shit about undergrad? We are talking about law schools. Perhaps you missed that when you clicked on the top law schools link. Talk about rc fail.

Seriously, I'm really curious. Did tech rape and murder your family or something? Why the hatred for tech? It can't JUST be simply that you are trying to justify your decision to go to STCL, can it? South Texas is a fine school - for Houston. Normal people would be happy with this and move on. Unless that is you ... i dunno ... got denied by tech and have an axe to grind or something. That can't be it, can it?


Here is a list of the schools that dominate the legal markets in Texas:

Houston - ST/UH
Austin - UT
Dallas - SMU
Ft. Worth - UT/Tex Wes.

So, if you want to go to a school where you are recruited secondarily in the major legal markets in Texas, the Texas Tech is your choice. If you want to go to a school where you are the primary recruitee, go to ST, UH, UT, SMU, Tex Wes. If you wish to hold on hope that you can be one of the 5%, 11% (a TT high), 6%, and 2% of the lawyers in these markets, go for it. I wouldn't, but then again, I am rational. The numbers are in black and white. By going to Tech you condemn yourself to being a back-up option for the largest legal markets in the state. If you want to work in a large legal market, DON'T go to Tech. The statistics of Tech in Dallas, Tarrant aren't statistically significant either, because most ST graduates self-select to not go to the Dallas and Tarrant markets because they have so many options in Harris. If this were not the case, and I admit this is impossible to prove, the numbers would be vastly different in both Dallas and Tarrant. Even as it is, the difference between the stats in Dallas and Tarrant between TT and ST aren't large enough to warrant the risk of Tech, when you have such a statistically better chance of succeeding(in terms of being in a large legal market) at ST. Face it, Texas Tech people just don't get it. Probably the reason they will end up there, when better options exist.


I think im going to fix your list, just a little. And btw, the word "dominate" - i don't think this word means what you think it means.

Houston - UH/UT
Austin - UT
Dallas - SMU/UT
Ft. Worth - UT
Everywhere Else - UT

You have to understand something. When you say "dominate", this suggests that a certain school has an overwhelming presence in a certain geographic area that dwarfs the influence of any and all other schools. In regards to Texas as a state - UT dominates everyone. The only schools that stand a chance to UT in regards to placement in Big/small/government/any law is SMU and Houston only in their respective home markets . Don't even bother bringing in Wesleyan into this discussion. I live in DFW, and like someone has said previously, even here they don't have much of a presence. Leave the metroplex and i guarantee 99 out of 100 people you ask will never have even heard of the school.

Finally, you've decided to go back to the numbers and the mater of comparing tech vs stcl, so lets talk about the numbers. You yourself admit that outside of Houston, tech places better than stcl everywhere else. The point rests then on your opinion that this perceived difference is to you, not "statistically significant". This is where i remind you of the other numbers you've conveniently neglected. Tech has been around for 40~ years and pops out about 200 graduates a year. Stcl is the oldest school in houston, and has been around for 90~ years and pops out about 400 graduates a year. DO THE MATH . The conclusion is this:

Despite the fact that STCL pops out twice as many jds per year as tech, and has been doing it for 50 years longer than tech, they still do not place as many lawyers as tech outside of Houston

Now does it dawn on you how "statistically significant" this fact is?

Which brings us back to the same credo that all us sane people have been yelling repeatedly over the childish insults and blind hatred. In comparing tech vs stcl, if you dont mind staying in houston, by all means go to stcl. But, if you want a chance at some mobility inside the state, tech is a slam dunk no brainer.

And seriously, you have not answered my question. Why the seething hatred for Tech? Did they reject you?

jgrin
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby jgrin » Wed May 12, 2010 6:28 pm

wreckem wrote:Okay lets see

South Texas = $50,000x3 = $150,000
Texas Tech = $30,000x3 = $90,000

South Texas puts 95%+ of its grads in small law, solo practice, etc. Most of those stay in Houston. So that's $45k a year in Houston with $150,000+ debt(don't forget undergrad).

Texas Tech puts grads all over the place and owns the West Texas/Panhandle market, where market rate is ~$75,000. Small law is again in the $45,000 range. Tech Puts about approx. 10% in Big Law in major Texas cities. A sizable chunk do make around $75k in the likes of Amarillo, Midland, etc. The majority of Tech grads, though less than STCL, make small law rate. So again based on small law rate, $45k a year in where ever, lets just say West Texas, with $90,000+ debt.

So lets compare $45k in Lubbock goes a lot further than $45k in Houston. In addition, even with IBR, student loan payments will be MUCH higher for the STCL grad working in Houston vs the Tech grad working in West Texas.

To say STCL is a better option, or significantly better option is false.

STCL is the better option for getting a job, any job, in Houston. That's it.


Considering that STCL median salary is about $80,000, it would be awfully hard for 95% of the grads to be making $45,000 (NO, THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE IF YOU CAN PROPERLY UNDERSTAND WHAT A MEDIAN IS). Half make more than $80,000, and half make less than $80,000 (about 200 make more and 200 hundred make less). Not only do yall fail to understand how to read data, you don't know the simple principle of how a median works. But I guess they don't teach that in 2nd grade in west Texas, where they are more concerned with teaching their 2nd graders how to put on a condom when boning a pig/horse.

Lucidity
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby Lucidity » Wed May 12, 2010 6:33 pm

jgrin wrote:
b.gump81 wrote:
jgrin wrote:Here is a list of the schools that dominate the legal markets in Texas:

Houston - UT, [strike]ST/UH[/strike] UH, and then ST
Austin - UT
Dallas - SMU
Ft. Worth - UT/[strike]Tex Wes.[/strike]


FTFY

By your own logic, STCL is a bad choice because it is not first pick in any legal market. So why would someone go there? Well here are a couple of possibilites: scholarship money, ties to area, interest in specific program, best option because they did not get into anywhere else...


jgrin wrote:So, if you want to go to a school where you are recruited secondarily in the major legal markets in Texas, the Texas Tech is your choice. If you want to go to a school where you are the primary recruitee, go to ST, UH, UT, SMU, Tex Wes. If you wish to hold on hope that you can be one of the 5%, 11% (a TT high), 6%, and 2% of the lawyers in these markets, go for it. I wouldn't, but then again, I am rational. The numbers are in black and white. By going to Tech you condemn yourself to being a back-up option for the largest legal markets in the state. If you want to work in a large legal market, DON'T go to Tech. The statistics of Tech in Dallas, Tarrant aren't statistically significant either, because most ST graduates self-select to not go to the Dallas and Tarrant markets because they have so many options in Harris. If this were not the case, and I admit this is impossible to prove, the numbers would be vastly different in both Dallas and Tarrant. Even as it is, the difference between the stats in Dallas and Tarrant between TT and ST aren't large enough to warrant the risk of Tech, when you have such a statistically better chance of succeeding(in terms of being in a large legal market) at ST. Face it, Texas Tech people just don't get it. Probably the reason they will end up there, when better options exist.


same points I brought up earlier. Money, interest in specific program, ties to area, or best option. For me it was money, interest in wind energy and litigation, and my ties to the area.

I also want to point out that Tech has its own market, where there is no competition from anyone. West Texas is itself a huge area, and there are tons of small/ midlaw firms, county governments, city governments, wind energy firms, oil and gas firms, etc. Just because you want biglaw and are fine with being stuck in Houston does not mean other applicants don't want to live in West Texas or get non-biglaw jobs in other markets across the state. Good luck at South Texas. Again I'm sorry it is the only place you got accepted, but I think you will find it is a great school and will take you where you want to go (maybe not big law, but it will give you a decent shot for it in Houston). There is no need to be bitter and try to justify your decision by trying to reach for arguments to put down other schools, especially when you have no merit.


You have got to be brain dead. Houston has the most lawyers from ST, then its UH. And I'm so sorry to burst your bubble, but Tex wes has more lawyers in ft. worth than tech. That is straight off the data that was posted earlier in this forum. Hold on, I will use your rhetoric that was utterly dorky and indicates you blog too much, RC Fail... And yes, ST is the first pick in the Houston market, ST grads are the highest number of lawyers in Houston. RC Fail 2. Have fun in those west texas markets cause you aren't going to make it to a major legal market.


STCL has more lawyers in Houston than UH because: 1) Houston lawyers have some mobility and are not restricted to Houston. STCL lawyers pretty much have to stay in Houston.2) theres also the mater of STCL is the oldest law school in houston . I really hope you are not walking down the path of suggesting that "more lawyers in houston" makes stcl a better school than UH.

And yes, wesleyan has more lawyers in fortworth ... and ? Wesleyan is IN Fortworth, and its a private t4 school. Their graduates have very little option of going anywhere, hence why they stay in fortworth. You might as well claim that more eskimos live in the arctic than in the congo. It may be true but its absolutely worthless as a statement.

jgrin
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby jgrin » Wed May 12, 2010 6:35 pm

Lucidity wrote:
jgrin wrote:
Lucidity wrote:

You were clearly dumb enough to not understand that I was clearly talking about undergraduate institutions, which is why Texas ATM was brought up in the first place. Why in the hell would I ever mention ATM, unless I was talking about undergrad. You went to Texas Tech out of undergrad because of a lack of options, not because it was your choice. Lubbock is everyone in the state's backup, and you know it. You are just in denial of this fact. With regards to law school, you will be screwed there when searching for a summer internship. Even if you do get one in one of the larger markets, your costs will be very high because you would have to move and rent. ST students will have the luxury of already being in the largest legal market in the state. You will have a certain lack of options when it comes to clinics as well. South Texas dominates, along with UH the Houston legal market, while Texas Tech gets the leftovers of the other 3 remaining legal markets. They aren't even significant in the markets that you claim they have a significant influence. THEY GET THE LEFTOVERS OF THE STATE. You are in loser denial. I don't know if it happened to you before you went to Lubbock. If it didn't, then it certainly happened to you once you got there. Have fun fornicating with barn animals for three more years!


The amount of fail in this post alone is just simply delicious. You are so blinded by your strange seething hatred for tech that you grasp at any and all straws you can to defend your irrational position. Newsflash, i didn't go to tech for undergrad. But I AM calling you out for being a douche. You started out sane enough, arguing with actual facts and numbers. But then when the numbers clearly showed that STCL is a one trick pony with only the (albeit large) Houston market and that outside of the comfort blanket of Houston STCL fades precipitously, you get your panties in a twist and pull out the personal attacks. Who gives a shit about undergrad? We are talking about law schools. Perhaps you missed that when you clicked on the top law schools link. Talk about rc fail.

Seriously, I'm really curious. Did tech rape and murder your family or something? Why the hatred for tech? It can't JUST be simply that you are trying to justify your decision to go to STCL, can it? South Texas is a fine school - for Houston. Normal people would be happy with this and move on. Unless that is you ... i dunno ... got denied by tech and have an axe to grind or something. That can't be it, can it?


Here is a list of the schools that dominate the legal markets in Texas:

Houston - ST/UH
Austin - UT
Dallas - SMU
Ft. Worth - UT/Tex Wes.

So, if you want to go to a school where you are recruited secondarily in the major legal markets in Texas, the Texas Tech is your choice. If you want to go to a school where you are the primary recruitee, go to ST, UH, UT, SMU, Tex Wes. If you wish to hold on hope that you can be one of the 5%, 11% (a TT high), 6%, and 2% of the lawyers in these markets, go for it. I wouldn't, but then again, I am rational. The numbers are in black and white. By going to Tech you condemn yourself to being a back-up option for the largest legal markets in the state. If you want to work in a large legal market, DON'T go to Tech. The statistics of Tech in Dallas, Tarrant aren't statistically significant either, because most ST graduates self-select to not go to the Dallas and Tarrant markets because they have so many options in Harris. If this were not the case, and I admit this is impossible to prove, the numbers would be vastly different in both Dallas and Tarrant. Even as it is, the difference between the stats in Dallas and Tarrant between TT and ST aren't large enough to warrant the risk of Tech, when you have such a statistically better chance of succeeding(in terms of being in a large legal market) at ST. Face it, Texas Tech people just don't get it. Probably the reason they will end up there, when better options exist.


In comparing tech vs stcl, if you dont mind staying in houston, by all means go to stcl.

Agreed.

But, if you want a chance at some mobility inside the state, tech is a slam dunk no brainer.

UT, SMU, UH are the no brainers. Tech will get what's leftover. The only market in which a t3/t4 school doesn't get the leftovers is ST, thus making ST the easiest option.

And seriously, you have not answered my question. Why the seething hatred for Tech? Did they reject you?


In comparing tech vs stcl, if you dont mind staying in houston, by all means go to stcl.

Agreed.

But, if you want a chance at some mobility inside the state, tech is a slam dunk no brainer.

UT, SMU, UH are the no brainers. Tech will get what's leftover. The only market in which a t3/t4 school doesn't get the leftovers is ST, thus making ST the easiest option. UH is a better school than ST. Everyone knows that.
Last edited by jgrin on Wed May 12, 2010 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wreckem
Posts: 94
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby wreckem » Wed May 12, 2010 6:36 pm

jgrin wrote:
wreckem wrote:Okay lets see

South Texas = $50,000x3 = $150,000
Texas Tech = $30,000x3 = $90,000

South Texas puts 95%+ of its grads in small law, solo practice, etc. Most of those stay in Houston. So that's $45k a year in Houston with $150,000+ debt(don't forget undergrad).

Texas Tech puts grads all over the place and owns the West Texas/Panhandle market, where market rate is ~$75,000. Small law is again in the $45,000 range. Tech Puts about approx. 10% in Big Law in major Texas cities. A sizable chunk do make around $75k in the likes of Amarillo, Midland, etc. The majority of Tech grads, though less than STCL, make small law rate. So again based on small law rate, $45k a year in where ever, lets just say West Texas, with $90,000+ debt.

So lets compare $45k in Lubbock goes a lot further than $45k in Houston. In addition, even with IBR, student loan payments will be MUCH higher for the STCL grad working in Houston vs the Tech grad working in West Texas.

To say STCL is a better option, or significantly better option is false.

STCL is the better option for getting a job, any job, in Houston. That's it.


Considering that STCL median salary is about $80,000, it would be awfully hard for 95% of the grads to be making $45,000 (NO, THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE IF YOU CAN PROPERLY UNDERSTAND WHAT A MEDIAN IS). Half make more than $80,000, and half make less than $80,000 (about 200 make more and 200 hundred make less). Not only do yall fail to understand how to read data, you don't know the simple principle of how a median works. But I guess they don't teach that in 2nd grade in west Texas, where they are more concerned with teaching their 2nd graders how to put on a condom when boning a pig/horse.


Self reported employment and salary data means jack shit. You are the one who needs to do research.
Last edited by wreckem on Wed May 12, 2010 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jgrin
Posts: 295
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby jgrin » Wed May 12, 2010 6:39 pm

Lucidity wrote:
jgrin wrote:
b.gump81 wrote:
jgrin wrote:Here is a list of the schools that dominate the legal markets in Texas:

Houston - UT, [strike]ST/UH[/strike] UH, and then ST
Austin - UT
Dallas - SMU
Ft. Worth - UT/[strike]Tex Wes.[/strike]


FTFY

By your own logic, STCL is a bad choice because it is not first pick in any legal market. So why would someone go there? Well here are a couple of possibilites: scholarship money, ties to area, interest in specific program, best option because they did not get into anywhere else...


jgrin wrote:So, if you want to go to a school where you are recruited secondarily in the major legal markets in Texas, the Texas Tech is your choice. If you want to go to a school where you are the primary recruitee, go to ST, UH, UT, SMU, Tex Wes. If you wish to hold on hope that you can be one of the 5%, 11% (a TT high), 6%, and 2% of the lawyers in these markets, go for it. I wouldn't, but then again, I am rational. The numbers are in black and white. By going to Tech you condemn yourself to being a back-up option for the largest legal markets in the state. If you want to work in a large legal market, DON'T go to Tech. The statistics of Tech in Dallas, Tarrant aren't statistically significant either, because most ST graduates self-select to not go to the Dallas and Tarrant markets because they have so many options in Harris. If this were not the case, and I admit this is impossible to prove, the numbers would be vastly different in both Dallas and Tarrant. Even as it is, the difference between the stats in Dallas and Tarrant between TT and ST aren't large enough to warrant the risk of Tech, when you have such a statistically better chance of succeeding(in terms of being in a large legal market) at ST. Face it, Texas Tech people just don't get it. Probably the reason they will end up there, when better options exist.


same points I brought up earlier. Money, interest in specific program, ties to area, or best option. For me it was money, interest in wind energy and litigation, and my ties to the area.

I also want to point out that Tech has its own market, where there is no competition from anyone. West Texas is itself a huge area, and there are tons of small/ midlaw firms, county governments, city governments, wind energy firms, oil and gas firms, etc. Just because you want biglaw and are fine with being stuck in Houston does not mean other applicants don't want to live in West Texas or get non-biglaw jobs in other markets across the state. Good luck at South Texas. Again I'm sorry it is the only place you got accepted, but I think you will find it is a great school and will take you where you want to go (maybe not big law, but it will give you a decent shot for it in Houston). There is no need to be bitter and try to justify your decision by trying to reach for arguments to put down other schools, especially when you have no merit.


You have got to be brain dead. Houston has the most lawyers from ST, then its UH. And I'm so sorry to burst your bubble, but Tex wes has more lawyers in ft. worth than tech. That is straight off the data that was posted earlier in this forum. Hold on, I will use your rhetoric that was utterly dorky and indicates you blog too much, RC Fail... And yes, ST is the first pick in the Houston market, ST grads are the highest number of lawyers in Houston. RC Fail 2. Have fun in those west texas markets cause you aren't going to make it to a major legal market.


STCL has more lawyers in Houston than UH because: 1) Houston lawyers have some mobility and are not restricted to Houston. STCL lawyers pretty much have to stay in Houston.2) theres also the mater of STCL is the oldest law school in houston . I really hope you are not walking down the path of suggesting that "more lawyers in houston" makes stcl a better school than UH.

And yes, wesleyan has more lawyers in fortworth ... and ? Wesleyan is IN Fortworth, and its a private t4 school. Their graduates have very little option of going anywhere, hence why they stay in fortworth. You might as well claim that more eskimos live in the arctic than in the congo. It may be true but its absolutely worthless as a statement.


Don't you understand that Tech graduates don't have a plethora of options either. That is why they get the leftovers in the rest of the markets. If you want to work in Dallas/Ft. worth or Austin... DON'T GO TO TECH. If you want to work in Houston, go to UH, ST, or UT. So if you want to be in one of the top 4 legal markets in the state, DON'T GO TO TECH. If you do, you can either go to UH, ST, SMU, or UT.

Lucidity
Posts: 99
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby Lucidity » Wed May 12, 2010 6:43 pm

I don't get it. Are you this dumb? You quoted me correctly, but yet missed the point completely. So i'll mention it again. we are comparing tech vs stcl. Outside of houston, tech places better by far everywhere else. The fact that UH, SMU, or Baylor does well here or there is irrelevant, because we are comparing tech and stcl.

And to beat a dead horse, you applied to tech right? How did that turn out for you? The answer to this question (that i've asked 3 times now) could really go a long way to explain your blind stupidity.

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Stringer Bell
Posts: 1923
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed May 12, 2010 6:45 pm

wreckem wrote:Self reported employment and salary data means jack shit. You are the one who needs to do research.


Credited. I can't remember, but I think when I saw % reporting for that 80k figure it was pretty low. Like 50-60% or so.

Lucidity
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:42 pm

Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby Lucidity » Wed May 12, 2010 6:46 pm

And good job on swallowing the employment data without question. Let me know how that 80K+ job works out for you when you graduate in 3 years.

jgrin
Posts: 295
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby jgrin » Wed May 12, 2010 6:54 pm

Lucidity wrote:I don't get it. Are you this dumb? You quoted me correctly, but yet missed the point completely. So i'll mention it again. we are comparing tech vs stcl. Outside of houston, tech places better by far everywhere else. The fact that UH, SMU, or Baylor does well here or there is irrelevant, because we are comparing tech and stcl.

And to beat a dead horse, you applied to tech right? How did that turn out for you? The answer to this question (that i've asked 3 times now) could really go a long way to explain your blind stupidity.


Yeah, and when doing this, you must compare to the rest of the state. I am saying that because Tech does not have a significant impact in any of the four major legal markets, and ST does, then ST is the better school.

And go ahead and be narrow in your comparison. And when it comes time to employment prospects, you will watch UT, SMU, UH, and Baylor grads whoop your ass in the markets you want to get in.
Last edited by jgrin on Wed May 12, 2010 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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b.gump81
Posts: 193
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby b.gump81 » Wed May 12, 2010 6:56 pm

jgrin wrote:Don't you understand that Tech graduates don't have a plethora of options either. That is why they get the leftovers in the rest of the markets. If you want to work in Dallas/Ft. worth or Austin... DON'T GO TO TECH. If you want to work in Houston, go to UH, ST, or UT. So if you want to be in one of the top 4 legal markets in the state, DON'T GO TO TECH. If you do, you can either go to UH, ST, SMU, or UT.


this is just ignorance. to say not to go to Tech if someone wants a specific market is just blindly ignoring debt to income ratio. Money and debt is a huge issue, especially in this economy. Some people don't want 150,000+ in debt after graduation to go to a school that places in a specific market. Also, when an applicant doesn't want biglaw, this argument is even more important.

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kalvano
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby kalvano » Wed May 12, 2010 7:01 pm

b.gump81 wrote:this is just ignorance. to say not to go to Tech if someone wants a specific market is just blindly ignoring debt to income ratio.



Not really. Any of the major Texas markets are dominated by their respective schools, just like all the other US legal markets.

Don't go to Tech if you have a burning desire to work in Dallas. Just like don't go to Iowa if you have a burning desire to work in Boston.

You keep coming back to COL (which is pretty much the only valid argument for living in Lubbock) and cost of tuition. While there is some merit to that, as is the case with most things in life, if you want the best chance of success, you don't cheap out. When movie studios are making their summer blockbusters, they pony up for the big-name stars because they will see a better return that way.

Yes, it costs more to go to SMU. You will also have exponentially more opportunities graduating from there, as well as make more money.




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