I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

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Jason321123
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby Jason321123 » Sat May 01, 2010 6:26 pm

Oh, I presumed you realized that you would already call in advance at the school and tell them you're coming. However, yes most of the time they're unwilling to meet. Just sit there patiently and ask for to meet an admission counselor/member. The secretary will be a bit harsh at first without a doubt saying they can't meet. They're too busy. Etc. (That's all crap. No offense to anyone but it is. No one is so busy that they can't stop for 2 minutes to meet someone. That 2 minute window is your only chance.) Don't cause a scene, don't do anything outrageous. Just sit there and wait patiently. If they lady says something like "They won't meet you." Say, "That's fine, I'll just wait until someone has time to meet me. I feel this is an urgent matter that I feel should only be discussed in person." Someone will meet you simply out of curiosity when they have time. It works. Whether you want to try it out or not, is up to you, but my personal experience it has worked. People are not has heartless or cold as some of you make it out to be when they see your face and true sincerity. As corny as that shit does sound.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby D. H2Oman » Sat May 01, 2010 6:29 pm

Jason321123 wrote:Here is some bad advice for you



Agreed

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vanwinkle
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby vanwinkle » Sat May 01, 2010 7:29 pm

Jason321123 wrote:Oh, I presumed you realized that you would already call in advance at the school and tell them you're coming. However, yes most of the time they're unwilling to meet. Just sit there patiently and ask for to meet an admission counselor/member. The secretary will be a bit harsh at first without a doubt saying they can't meet. They're too busy. Etc. (That's all crap. No offense to anyone but it is. No one is so busy that they can't stop for 2 minutes to meet someone. That 2 minute window is your only chance.) Don't cause a scene, don't do anything outrageous. Just sit there and wait patiently. If they lady says something like "They won't meet you." Say, "That's fine, I'll just wait until someone has time to meet me. I feel this is an urgent matter that I feel should only be discussed in person." Someone will meet you simply out of curiosity when they have time. It works. Whether you want to try it out or not, is up to you, but my personal experience it has worked. People are not has heartless or cold as some of you make it out to be when they see your face and true sincerity. As corny as that shit does sound.

bigben
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby bigben » Sat May 01, 2010 8:06 pm

DanInALionsDen wrote:
bigben wrote:free GULC > MVP sticker

Close call between CCN sticker and free GULC


I know it sounds presumptuous, but with my financial circumstances, I doubt I'd pay sticker anywhere I got in during a regular cycle. I think I'd get some kind of grant everywhere. I'm as poor as it gets pretty much.


Law schools don't really have a rigid grant aid system. It's just one big slush fund that is used mostly for merit awards, though they call some of it financial aid sometimes. You can be as poor as possible and still get 0 aid. This is more likely to happen if you're getting off a waitlist late in the cycle. It all seems pretty unpredictable. Anyway, you get the point.

DanInALionsDen
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby DanInALionsDen » Sat May 01, 2010 8:11 pm

bigben wrote:
DanInALionsDen wrote:
bigben wrote:free GULC > MVP sticker

Close call between CCN sticker and free GULC


I know it sounds presumptuous, but with my financial circumstances, I doubt I'd pay sticker anywhere I got in during a regular cycle. I think I'd get some kind of grant everywhere. I'm as poor as it gets pretty much.


Law schools don't really have a rigid grant aid system. It's just one big slush fund that is used mostly for merit awards, though they call some of it financial aid sometimes. You can be as poor as possible and still get 0 aid. This is more likely to happen if you're getting off a waitlist late in the cycle. It all seems pretty unpredictable. Anyway, you get the point.


Which is why I'm considering reapplying from scratch.

DanInALionsDen
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby DanInALionsDen » Sat May 01, 2010 8:16 pm

nealric wrote:As a soon to be GULC grad, I would repeat the suggestion that anything other than HYS isn't really worth it over GULC full ride. Worst case scenario is that you miss out on biglaw. If that happens, at least you aren't in debt. Miss out on biglaw from NYU and you are up a creek.


Missing out on biglaw isn't an option. I have a very limited set of legal interests: clerkship->biglaw->in house or clerkship->biglaw->judgeship/adjunct professorship.

Wooster33
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby Wooster33 » Sat May 01, 2010 8:22 pm

As a soon to be GULC grad, I would repeat the suggestion that anything other than HYS isn't really worth it over GULC full ride.


+1

However, if you are certain you want to do public interest then IBR and loan forgiveness take much of the benefit out of the scholly. If you want to do federal clerkship and then BigLaw, I would say GULC all the way.

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vanwinkle
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby vanwinkle » Sat May 01, 2010 8:39 pm

DanInALionsDen wrote:Missing out on biglaw isn't an option. I have a very limited set of legal interests: clerkship->biglaw->in house or clerkship->biglaw->judgeship/adjunct professorship.

In this case I think NYU is actually TCR.

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clintonius
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby clintonius » Sun May 02, 2010 4:02 am

And even in that case, don't fool yourself -- clerkships aren't doled out like candy, from all I've read (OL speaking), and biglaw is still tough, though I suppose you have a roughly 7% better shot from NYU than from GULC. That's the difference between 50.1% and 42.8% or something like that in the latest data. If "missing out on biglaw isn't an option," you should really be in the 'HYS or bust' camp.

This is all ignoring the academia aspect. NYU is maybe the worst of the top 10 for academia.

Alexandria
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby Alexandria » Sun May 02, 2010 9:07 am

vanwinkle wrote:
A'nold wrote:I just talked to my wife about this. We are both certain that we would take this offer over sticker anywhere but HYS.

I'm going to say that TITCR.


Yeah, I agree. I'm about to graduate from Michigan in 6 days (!!!!), and I love it, and I do think it's significantly easier to get the more sought-after jobs coming from most of the schools ranked above GULC. However, a free law degree from a school as great as GULC is an amazing opportunity. I think you should take it. Personally... I'm not even sure if I would take HYS over that... it would depend on the financial aid offers from those schools and also on personal factors (like I started law school already married, etc., so feeling more responsibility... if I had been straight from undergrad, I might have been more willing to take the financial gamble and throw away GULC $$$$ for sticker at HYS).

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TTT-LS
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby TTT-LS » Sun May 02, 2010 9:58 am

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Last edited by TTT-LS on Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lawapps0502
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby lawapps0502 » Sun May 02, 2010 10:22 am

DanInALionsDen wrote:I apologize if this is a ridiculous question, but I'm stressing like crazy.

GULC essentially gave me a full tuition scholarship, 40k/yr for three years +5k/yr work study. The scholarship has no GPA condition or anything of that kind. In the director of admissions' own words: "As long as you don't plagiarize or get yourself thrown out of the law school in some other way, the money is yours." The catch: they want an answer by Friday.

I'm on waitlists at Columbia, NYU, Penn, and my question is this: how far up the t14 list would I have to climb to make giving up the near free-ride at GULC worth it? (I know if this were someone's else's thread and I was the one reading it, I'd immediately reply "Cornell," but seriously)

Additional information: I'd like to clerk after law school, at the federal level.


I think if you got off the wait lists at any of those schools you should pass on GULC. Yes, your giving up a large scholarship, but you will earn money once you graduate and be able to pay it off easily. The money GULC may seem great now, but you have to think about your career future 5 years down the road.

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SanBun
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby SanBun » Sun May 02, 2010 11:41 am

lawapps0502 wrote:
DanInALionsDen wrote:I apologize if this is a ridiculous question, but I'm stressing like crazy.

GULC essentially gave me a full tuition scholarship, 40k/yr for three years +5k/yr work study. The scholarship has no GPA condition or anything of that kind. In the director of admissions' own words: "As long as you don't plagiarize or get yourself thrown out of the law school in some other way, the money is yours." The catch: they want an answer by Friday.

I'm on waitlists at Columbia, NYU, Penn, and my question is this: how far up the t14 list would I have to climb to make giving up the near free-ride at GULC worth it? (I know if this were someone's else's thread and I was the one reading it, I'd immediately reply "Cornell," but seriously)

Additional information: I'd like to clerk after law school, at the federal level.


I think if you got off the wait lists at any of those schools you should pass on GULC. Yes, your giving up a large scholarship, but you will earn money once you graduate and be able to pay it off easily. The money GULC may seem great now, but you have to think about your career future 5 years down the road.



YOU JUST CAN'T KNOW THIS! anyone this ignorant to the obvious signs of downturn in the legal economy will be punished down the road.

OP, take the money at GULC. As a previous poster said, any sane person would do this. Please, be sane, for your own good.

And this article really has it nailed --LinkRemoved-- you should be GRATEFUL it's out there to warn you of debt and overconfidence. Be smarter than the rest: USE that information to your advantage.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sun May 02, 2010 11:44 am

lawapps0502 wrote:
DanInALionsDen wrote:I apologize if this is a ridiculous question, but I'm stressing like crazy.

GULC essentially gave me a full tuition scholarship, 40k/yr for three years +5k/yr work study. The scholarship has no GPA condition or anything of that kind. In the director of admissions' own words: "As long as you don't plagiarize or get yourself thrown out of the law school in some other way, the money is yours." The catch: they want an answer by Friday.

I'm on waitlists at Columbia, NYU, Penn, and my question is this: how far up the t14 list would I have to climb to make giving up the near free-ride at GULC worth it? (I know if this were someone's else's thread and I was the one reading it, I'd immediately reply "Cornell," but seriously)

Additional information: I'd like to clerk after law school, at the federal level.


I think if you got off the wait lists at any of those schools you should pass on GULC. Yes, your giving up a large scholarship, but you will earn money once you graduate and be able to pay it off easily. The money GULC may seem great now, but you have to think about your career future 5 years down the road.


You do realize that around 80% of the people that actually enter big law drop out long before the five year mark, right?

SanBun wrote:Dude, no way, take the money at GULC. Any sane person would do this. Please, be sane, for your own good.

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GordonBombay
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby GordonBombay » Sun May 02, 2010 11:52 am

--ImageRemoved--

Georgetown for free = slam dunk

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tommytahoe
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby tommytahoe » Sun May 02, 2010 12:33 pm

I agree with the slam dunk metaphor, and with the others who say the same thing. GT with money becomes a risk in your decision only in the event that it significantly hurts your ability to find work upon graduation. And, despite concerns that have been raised about GULC's size, and about OCI, GULC is not a school where you will run into such a hiring problem. Period. To many it's golden, and I'm certain you can't doubt its bona fides as a GREAT place to learn the law.
Of course I can't quibble with the federal clerkship stats you put up, OP. But if federal clerkships is so important to you that it would involve over looking a suitcase full of cash, well, so be it.
Besides, many folks do two clerkships: one for say the DC Courts, then a second for Appeals Court, or SCOTUS. It's fair to say that $135,000 less debt buys you the time to hang around in the courts system for another year.

One thing you might want to do, to make your dilemma juicier. Send an email to the T13 school, and say "I've been offered a very tempting offer from GULC, but I really want to attend your T13 school b/c [insert laudatory praise of T13 here]. An offer of [aim a tad higher than you want, say, $40,000] would make your offer extremely hard to resist."

Worth a shot.

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Always Credited
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby Always Credited » Sun May 02, 2010 12:52 pm

TTT-LS wrote:I love how OP casually assumes he'll be able to get a COA clerkship, much less one on 2/9/DC, regardless of where he goes. Truly hilarious. OP, you do realize that such aspirations are insanely audacious regardless of which school you choose, right? Nothing wrong with aiming high, but you sound plain silly the way you frame it.

Moreover, no sane person of any kind would pay sticker to attend CCN when GULC is free. Ever. You are engaging in precisely the kind of optimism bias previously documented on ATL, you are seriously underestimating the substantial and long-term burden of debt, and you are overplaying the advantages of CCN over GULC. Break out of the TLS/0L rankings mindset for a moment and realize that while one school might place better than the other, the differences are a lot smaller than you think.


TITCR

Really, if you're having such a hard time with this decision you aren't going to have a shot at a clerkship anyway. Your "research" is one dimensional. Your reasoning is flawed. I'm truly amazed that someone able to secure such a generous scholly from GULC can't perform by themselves the basic tasks necessary for an informed decision.

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clintonius
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby clintonius » Sun May 02, 2010 3:15 pm

ITT: one person asks for assistance and receives it. Three pages later, TTT-LS, as is his wont, berates the OP for asking a question. Hours later, some douchebag follows suit, because it's hilarz to be an asshole on the internet.

/angry hangover post

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tommytahoe
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby tommytahoe » Sun May 02, 2010 3:25 pm

clintonius wrote:ITT: one person asks for assistance and receives it. Three pages later, TTT-LS, as is his wont, berates the OP for asking a question. Hours later, some douchebag follows suit, because it's hilarz to be an asshole on the internet.

/angry hangover post


For real. A little too much mustard on that sandwich, IMO... wait for angry riposte next...

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mpasi
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby mpasi » Sun May 02, 2010 3:37 pm

I'd go with the nearly free route, Chief. Enjoy DC.

twistedwrister
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby twistedwrister » Sun May 02, 2010 5:05 pm

clintonius wrote:And even in that case, don't fool yourself -- clerkships aren't doled out like candy, from all I've read (OL speaking), and biglaw is still tough, though I suppose you have a roughly 7% better shot from NYU than from GULC. That's the difference between 50.1% and 42.8% or something like that in the latest data. If "missing out on biglaw isn't an option," you should really be in the 'HYS or bust' camp.

This is all ignoring the academia aspect. NYU is maybe the worst of the top 10 for academia.


Not really. Take a look at http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_teaching.shtml Per capita, NYU doesn't place as many students in academia as YHSChicago do, but it is on par with Columbia and MVPB.

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clintonius
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby clintonius » Sun May 02, 2010 5:08 pm

Hey that's cool. Thanks!

twistedwrister
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby twistedwrister » Sun May 02, 2010 5:19 pm

clintonius wrote:Hey that's cool. Thanks!


No problem. I hope you have a great time at NYU next year (if you end up attending).

DanInALionsDen
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby DanInALionsDen » Mon May 03, 2010 1:06 am

Always Credited wrote:
Really, if you're having such a hard time with this decision you aren't going to have a shot at a clerkship anyway. Your "research" is one dimensional. Your reasoning is flawed. I'm truly amazed that someone able to secure such a generous scholly from GULC can't perform by themselves the basic tasks necessary for an informed decision.


Enjoy GW. :wink:




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