I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

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TCScrutinizer
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby TCScrutinizer » Sat May 01, 2010 5:31 pm

I wouldn't pass up a full scholarship to GULC for sticker at any school other than maybe YHS. With some $ I might pass it up for CCNBP. I can't imagine that federal clerkships are inaccessible to graduates of the top ranked law school in D.C.

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babaghanouj
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby babaghanouj » Sat May 01, 2010 5:34 pm

IMO, any of HYSCCN at sticker would be worth choosing over this offer. The opportunities those schools provide really are that much better than anything GULC has to offer. The above post referencing how GULC "still places great in biglaw" is absurd.

DanInALionsDen
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby DanInALionsDen » Sat May 01, 2010 5:35 pm

TCS wrote:I wouldn't pass up a full scholarship to GULC for sticker at any school other than maybe YHS. With some $ I might pass it up for CCNBP. I can't imagine that federal clerkships are inaccessible to graduates of the top ranked law school in D.C.


Well, even though my numbers aren't extremely impressive for the t14, and I know financial aid at law school is tough to get, I think I might actually be able to get dollars at CCNP (not interested in B). My mom makes 20k/year, and she's a single parent (no contact with my father). I got 90k in grant from GULC before I got this scholarship which brought it up to 40k. I especially think I could get some $ out of NU, where I didn't even apply this year, because I thought they'd reject me for being straight out of college... stupid.

DanInALionsDen
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby DanInALionsDen » Sat May 01, 2010 5:37 pm

babaghanouj wrote:IMO, any of HYSCCN at sticker would be worth choosing over this offer. The opportunities those schools provide really are that much better than anything GULC has to offer. The above post referencing how GULC "still places great in biglaw" is absurd.


There's no bias in this assessment?

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vanwinkle
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby vanwinkle » Sat May 01, 2010 5:39 pm

DanInALionsDen wrote:Yes, yes, but the ELITISM!!!! I don't want my future fellow associates snickering behind me back saying I went to GTTTOWN. :shock: Hahaha.

Once you have a job, who cares where you went to school (at least in terms of your peers). Most places you work, you're going to be working with people who went to a school that is lower ranked and less well regarded than GULC. The only "elite" question is whether GULC is elite enough to impress employers and get you a job when you graduate. After that who the fuck cares, unless you're expecting an executive appointment or something.

sumus romani
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby sumus romani » Sat May 01, 2010 5:41 pm

DanInALionsDen wrote:
sumus romani wrote:It is not financially sound to pass up GLUC with this kind of money for any of the schools you've listed. Remember, there are people who can find no substantial employment from the schools you've listed; people in the top quarter missing out on federal clerkships, biglaw, etc.


Yes, yes, but the ELITISM!!!! I don't want my future fellow associates snickering behind me back saying I went to GTTTOWN. :shock: Hahaha.



But GLUC is an elite school. Don't let a few vocal TLS members make you think otherwise. With the exception of your few years in biglaw, you'll be working mostly with and against non-T14 graduates.

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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby DanInALionsDen » Sat May 01, 2010 5:45 pm

sumus romani wrote:
DanInALionsDen wrote:
sumus romani wrote:It is not financially sound to pass up GLUC with this kind of money for any of the schools you've listed. Remember, there are people who can find no substantial employment from the schools you've listed; people in the top quarter missing out on federal clerkships, biglaw, etc.


Yes, yes, but the ELITISM!!!! I don't want my future fellow associates snickering behind me back saying I went to GTTTOWN. :shock: Hahaha.



But GLUC is an elite school. Don't let a few vocal TLS members make you think otherwise. With the exception of your few years in biglaw, you'll be working mostly with and against non-T14 graduates.


I'm skeptical of your advice on this matter because you keep writing GLUC instead of GULC. Also, I might want to become a judge, and then what? Look at the second circuit... no one from GULC.

Jason321123
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby Jason321123 » Sat May 01, 2010 5:45 pm

My friends that are in law school/graduated law school/practicing law/etc. say that generally this.

1) Go to the best school you can go to.
2) Get the best grades you can get.
3) Make law review.
4) Transfer if you think it's worth it.
5) Repeat from 1-3 if you transfer if not skip to 6.
6) Continue dominating law school until graduation.
7) Aim for a solid summer clerk in between 1L-2L.

Now to your many questions.
1) Is the LSAT a good indicator of law school. Long answer No. Short answer Yes. I hope this will help you ease your anxiety about your LSAT number being a determining factor for your law school performance.
- Yes, in the fact that if you were a studious student you would have spent a shitload of time, money, and preparation to dominate that test. These are all excellent qualifications that will probably make you succeed in law school. Because you have a serious mentality and really willing to grind your ass/teeth/brains/skin/whatever to get that score. Those that have it (it here being innate talent for logic in all its various forms of glory) will naturally do fine, however for the rest of us, (I'm presuming you as well because you retook), have to bust our asses to get that number. So yes it's a pretty good indicator in that sense. It weeds out those of us that want to work hard, those of us that have natural talent, with the rest of the population that is lazy, stupid, etc. (Not trying to be elitist.)
- No. I know some of my friends had RIDICULOUSLY high LSAT scores. I know one of my friends had gotten a 176 and is currently in the bottom half of his class at a top 14. Does the school's competitiveness matter? Yes. A competitive environment makes it harder to fight for those few A's that are based on the curve of your law school. However it does not mean you are automatically going to rock at law school. Law school is a different animal than any other school from what I've been told. Your tests are different, the teaching style is different, and the environment is different. You're going to be competing against some of the best and brightest people in the country. So, not to again sound negative or elitist, if you don't feel like you can be the best at one school, the likelihood that you'll be the best at another is about the same. There will be people in EVERY law school that would probably succeed in HYS that for various reasons went to YOUR specific school because of financial, family, etc. So, not to burst your bubble, but your LSAT scores mean jackshit against a natural born genius. The only thing you can do to catch up to him is to bust your ass more than him and catch up/over take him. There are others that are incredibly gifted, but just ridiculously poor at taking standardized tests. These people could be brilliant and again you will be competing against them. Law school requires a shit load of dedication, perseverance, and hard work. That being said, I know one of my friends who got into UChicago, who had a lower than median LSAT for his year, but graduated 3rd in his class...So...LSAT doesn't really mean jack except in my view point as an indicator of who is naturally talented and who is willing to work hard. That is all. So if you were willing to bust your ass on the test, why not bust your ass in whatever school you go to, and do well.
2) As for your chances on clerking. Yes your school name makes a difference, as well as your grades. But unless you've actually talked to an 2L or someone that is clerking, a lot of it is also how well you can read and write legally. GULC is a VERY good school. Granted it isn't a HYS but it's still a nationally renown and competitive school that many people would respect. That being said you try to get the best grades you can get and learn how to write better than your competitors. That will make you have a better shot than say a boost in rank by 5-10 law schools. It will also make you a better lawyer in the long run. (You would be surprised at how incompetent some lawyers are at legal writing even from the BEST law schools in the country. It doesn't really surprise me seeing as most top 20 law schools don't even grade Legal Research and Writing as a grade except for Pass/Fail.) So if you want to make sure you have a good shot, do shit that will make you better overall as well as in the short term. (This is advice from one of my friends that is currently in "Biglaw")
3) I would seriously consider why you want to clerk. If you're clerking because you want to teach, then yes you should hold out definitely. If you're clerking for job offers and experience. Then I would say your chances at GULC is just as good as elsewhere. This being said that your grades would be similar at whatever school you end up. But that in itself is jumping the gun, seeing as you're not even done with UG yet and you're already worrying about a clerkship at the end of 1L or 2L or even 3L (depending on the job market)? Seriously?
4) You should factor into account the cost of a legal education. (Most people don't seem to understand this.) Most people think that if they graduated from a top 20 law school, they have a solid chance at a BigLaw gig, i.e. +100K a year job. I would sincerely disagree. Yes, you have it a bit easier, but if you haven't read the papers or legal journals/magazines. A lot of jobs in the legal field are being squeezed. There are fewer lawyers working the SAME amount of billable hours from the last 2-3 years. So...that being the factor, the competitiveness in the job market is going up extremely. Again this is where your abilities, not your school name will get land you the job. The name of the school will only get your foot in the door. Your 1L grades (which leads to prime clerkships/internships/interviews/law review), your clerkships/internships, your work experience, your abilities to speak another language, Law Review, publications, etc. will be the things that get you hired. (I've read in a book that a dude got a job interview because he was on Jeopardy...lol.) Things that set you apart will get you that interview. Aside from the holy trinity of law, your chances are just as good as anyone else when you're applying nationally. Regionally you might have a stronger shot if your school focuses specifically in that region. That being said, you're in a great school so I would suggest you think about that carefully. Also, you would have get a 100k+ job to be able to pay off your student loans in a respectable amount of time. I just calculated how much it will cost me to go to law school at sticker and it's nearly 200k. That would mean I would need to get a biglaw job at around 100k to be able to pay that off in about my estimate 2-3 years. I would be FORCED to take a biglaw job instead of say a clerkship. You, if you took the scholarship, would have much more freedom. You don't NEED that biglaw job and if you don't like it, you can always search for a clerkship without accruing more debt via interest, etc. Most lawyers that graduate lower and do not land that biglaw job are generally shafted...It takes them several years to pay off their student loans. If you also have student loans from UG, then you'd be royally shafted...especially if you're going straight from UG => Law school. I wouldn't be surprised if you accrued around 300-400k worth of debt.
5) The only reason in my opinion that you would REALLY be willing to go to another school or hold out is the following:
- Vanity. (Do not ignore this. Law is a very hierarchical field. I understand that NYU degree would look so much better than GULC. Same with say a HYS degree as
opposed to a NYU degree. But don't forget a balance of say +$100k at the end of the year in your account would look just as good in my opinion.)
- A VERY SPECIFIC PROFESSOR/FIELD/AREA OF EXPERTISE THAT SCHOOL SPECIALIZES IN AND IS RENOWN FOR.
- Family/financial/etc. (Personal issues that do not pertain to your profession or law in general.)

In my opinion your chances at getting a good clerkship are just as good at GULC than at NYU or any other school you're waitlisted at. On top of which the benefits vs. the costs of not accepting that scholly is pretty ridiculous. In the long run, it will not make TOO huge of a difference, if at all and in the short term you won't have a negative -120k in your bank statement.

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scribelaw
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby scribelaw » Sat May 01, 2010 5:48 pm

DanInALionsDen wrote:
babaghanouj wrote:IMO, any of HYSCCN at sticker would be worth choosing over this offer. The opportunities those schools provide really are that much better than anything GULC has to offer. The above post referencing how GULC "still places great in biglaw" is absurd.


There's no bias in this assessment?


I know a 2L at GTown who told me today that top-third is pretty much a lock for Biglaw but people around the median were getting no Biglaw offers and struggling to find substantial work for the summer.

Also, he said NYU > GULC for DC Biglaw because the top firms are very selective hiring from DC schools. Everyone wants to stay, so lots of competition.

I still don't know, though. It's hard to turn down a T14 school with $$$ for sticker somewhere else, outside of HYS.

Plus, GTown has things going for it -- great clinics and externships during the school year, being right there where all the federal agencies are.

I've talked to three or four lawyers about it down here in Florida and they all think I'd be crazy to pass up the GTown money. They see no difference between GTown and NYU. But they haven't been studying the placement figures, and there is a sizable difference.

09042014
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby 09042014 » Sat May 01, 2010 5:50 pm

Nightrunner wrote:DF alt?


This feels like my child has graduated med school.

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clintonius
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby clintonius » Sat May 01, 2010 5:51 pm

DanInALionsDen wrote:
clintonius wrote:Yup, in this case, follow the money. Scribe, I think you're in a more difficult situation and I'm not sure what to tell you.
Where are you going? NYU? Would you have taken this offer over your offer at NYU?

Heh, yeah, I'm going to NYU. Initially I wrote that I'd take NYU over $90k at Gtown, but deleted it because I have lots of reasons for wanting NYU that don't necessarily translate broadly (see, e.g., Jason's mention of wanting contact with specific professors above). That being said, I'm very skeptical of the notion that NYU places better than GULC in DC biglaw. In fact I'm not really sure it's possible, given the number of NYU grads who stay in New York and the sheer size of GULC's class.
Last edited by clintonius on Sat May 01, 2010 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby scribelaw » Sat May 01, 2010 5:51 pm

DanInALionsDen wrote:
scribelaw wrote:OP, I'm in a similar boat -- deciding between $90k at GULC versus sticker at NYU.

The money is hard to turn down, but I'm worried about Goergetown's OCI. It does seem like there's a substantial Biglaw hiring difference between the two.


10%

But then I think... how much does LSAT/GPA correlate to success in law school? I would be a median candidate at NYU... at GULC, I'm the very top. If there is a strong correlation, then it should be easier for me to get to the top of GULC then the top of NYU. And the top of any t14 is an amazing thing.


I think it's actually more than 10 percent. That's just the raw difference in Biglaw placement, not counting the varying levels of prestige within biglaw, clerkship placement, and how many students actually try to get Biglaw.

Also, it's crazy to think you'd be top at Gtown but median at NYU. The LSAT median at Gtown is 170 and it's 171 at NYU -- one bubble on a single test. And the LSAT only has a 16 percent predictive value, which is actually pretty good for a standardized test but it shows that you can't plug in your LSAT and figure where you'll land on the curve.

I think you have to assume median and see if the finances and opportunities line up.

DanInALionsDen
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby DanInALionsDen » Sat May 01, 2010 5:57 pm

Jason321123 wrote:My friends that are in law school/graduated law school/practicing law/etc. say that generally this.

1) Go to the best school you can go to.
2) Get the best grades you can get.
3) Make law review.
4) Transfer if you think it's worth it.
5) Repeat from 1-3 if you transfer if not skip to 6.
6) Continue dominating law school until graduation.
7) Aim for a solid summer clerk in between 1L-2L.

Now to your many questions.
1) Is the LSAT a good indicator of law school. Long answer No. Short answer Yes. I hope this will help you ease your anxiety about your LSAT number being a determining factor for your law school performance.
- Yes, in the fact that if you were a studious student you would have spent a shitload of time, money, and preparation to dominate that test. These are all excellent qualifications that will probably make you succeed in law school. Because you have a serious mentality and really willing to grind your ass/teeth/brains/skin/whatever to get that score. Those that have it (it here being innate talent for logic in all its various forms of glory) will naturally do fine, however for the rest of us, (I'm presuming you as well because you retook), have to bust our asses to get that number. So yes it's a pretty good indicator in that sense. It weeds out those of us that want to work hard, those of us that have natural talent, with the rest of the population that is lazy, stupid, etc. (Not trying to be elitist.)
- No. I know some of my friends had RIDICULOUSLY high LSAT scores. I know one of my friends had gotten a 176 and is currently in the bottom half of his class at a top 14. Does the school's competitiveness matter? Yes. A competitive environment makes it harder to fight for those few A's that are based on the curve of your law school. However it does not mean you are automatically going to rock at law school. Law school is a different animal than any other school from what I've been told. Your tests are different, the teaching style is different, and the environment is different. You're going to be competing against some of the best and brightest people in the country. So, not to again sound negative or elitist, if you don't feel like you can be the best at one school, the likelihood that you'll be the best at another is about the same. There will be people in EVERY law school that would probably succeed in HYS that for various reasons went to YOUR specific school because of financial, family, etc. So, not to burst your bubble, but your LSAT scores mean jackshit against a natural born genius. The only thing you can do to catch up to him is to bust your ass more than him and catch up/over take him. There are others that are incredibly gifted, but just ridiculously poor at taking standardized tests. These people could be brilliant and again you will be competing against them. Law school requires a shit load of dedication, perseverance, and hard work. That being said, I know one of my friends who got into UChicago, who had a lower than median LSAT for his year, but graduated 3rd in his class...So...LSAT doesn't really mean jack except in my view point as an indicator of who is naturally talented and who is willing to work hard. That is all. So if you were willing to bust your ass on the test, why not bust your ass in whatever school you go to, and do well.
2) As for your chances on clerking. Yes your school name makes a difference, as well as your grades. But unless you've actually talked to an 2L or someone that is clerking, a lot of it is also how well you can read and write legally. GULC is a VERY good school. Granted it isn't a HYS but it's still a nationally renown and competitive school that many people would respect. That being said you try to get the best grades you can get and learn how to write better than your competitors. That will make you have a better shot than say a boost in rank by 5-10 law schools. It will also make you a better lawyer in the long run. (You would be surprised at how incompetent some lawyers are at legal writing even from the BEST law schools in the country. It doesn't really surprise me seeing as most top 20 law schools don't even grade Legal Research and Writing as a grade except for Pass/Fail.) So if you want to make sure you have a good shot, do shit that will make you better overall as well as in the short term. (This is advice from one of my friends that is currently in "Biglaw")
3) I would seriously consider why you want to clerk. If you're clerking because you want to teach, then yes you should hold out definitely. If you're clerking for job offers and experience. Then I would say your chances at GULC is just as good as elsewhere. This being said that your grades would be similar at whatever school you end up. But that in itself is jumping the gun, seeing as you're not even done with UG yet and you're already worrying about a clerkship at the end of 1L or 2L or even 3L (depending on the job market)? Seriously?
4) You should factor into account the cost of a legal education. (Most people don't seem to understand this.) Most people think that if they graduated from a top 20 law school, they have a solid chance at a BigLaw gig, i.e. +100K a year job. I would sincerely disagree. Yes, you have it a bit easier, but if you haven't read the papers or legal journals/magazines. A lot of jobs in the legal field are being squeezed. There are fewer lawyers working the SAME amount of billable hours from the last 2-3 years. So...that being the factor, the competitiveness in the job market is going up extremely. Again this is where your abilities, not your school name will get land you the job. The name of the school will only get your foot in the door. Your 1L grades (which leads to prime clerkships/internships/interviews/law review), your clerkships/internships, your work experience, your abilities to speak another language, Law Review, publications, etc. will be the things that get you hired. (I've read in a book that a dude got a job interview because he was on Jeopardy...lol.) Things that set you apart will get you that interview. Aside from the holy trinity of law, your chances are just as good as anyone else when you're applying nationally. Regionally you might have a stronger shot if your school focuses specifically in that region. That being said, you're in a great school so I would suggest you think about that carefully. Also, you would have get a 100k+ job to be able to pay off your student loans in a respectable amount of time. I just calculated how much it will cost me to go to law school at sticker and it's nearly 200k. That would mean I would need to get a biglaw job at around 100k to be able to pay that off in about my estimate 2-3 years. I would be FORCED to take a biglaw job instead of say a clerkship. You, if you took the scholarship, would have much more freedom. You don't NEED that biglaw job and if you don't like it, you can always search for a clerkship without accruing more debt via interest, etc. Most lawyers that graduate lower and do not land that biglaw job are generally shafted...It takes them several years to pay off their student loans. If you also have student loans from UG, then you'd be royally shafted...especially if you're going straight from UG => Law school. I wouldn't be surprised if you accrued around 300-400k worth of debt.
5) The only reason in my opinion that you would REALLY be willing to go to another school or hold out is the following:
- Vanity. (Do not ignore this. Law is a very hierarchical field. I understand that NYU degree would look so much better than GULC. Same with say a HYS degree as
opposed to a NYU degree. But don't forget a balance of say +$100k at the end of the year in your account would look just as good in my opinion.)
- A VERY SPECIFIC PROFESSOR/FIELD/AREA OF EXPERTISE THAT SCHOOL SPECIALIZES IN AND IS RENOWN FOR.
- Family/financial/etc. (Personal issues that do not pertain to your profession or law in general.)

In my opinion your chances at getting a good clerkship are just as good at GULC than at NYU or any other school you're waitlisted at. On top of which the benefits vs. the costs of not accepting that scholly is pretty ridiculous. In the long run, it will not make TOO huge of a difference, if at all and in the short term you won't have a negative -120k in your bank statement.


I appreciate your advice, but I think you need to do more research for your own sake. You don't seem to know what the pay grade is for biglaw, or how the clerking process actually works. As for the LSAT, to be honest, I barely studied either time and didn't take a prep class cause I thought they were overpriced... whatever that indicates.

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clintonius
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby clintonius » Sat May 01, 2010 6:00 pm

Oh, and last year the difference between NLJ250 hiring at NYU and GULC was ~7%

DanInALionsDen
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby DanInALionsDen » Sat May 01, 2010 6:03 pm

clintonius wrote:Oh, and last year the difference between NLJ250 hiring at NYU and GULC was ~7%


What do you want to do in law, just out of interest?

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clintonius
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby clintonius » Sat May 01, 2010 6:04 pm

Ha, some pretty unrealistic things for which NYU has probably the best faculty in the nation.

DanInALionsDen
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby DanInALionsDen » Sat May 01, 2010 6:08 pm

clintonius wrote:Ha, some pretty unrealistic things for which NYU has probably the best faculty in the nation.


How evasive.

Edit: PI?
Last edited by DanInALionsDen on Sat May 01, 2010 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bigben
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby bigben » Sat May 01, 2010 6:11 pm

Q: Why does every 0L say they want to do a federal clerkship after law school?

A: They have no idea, they just heard it was prestigious.

Jason321123
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby Jason321123 » Sat May 01, 2010 6:13 pm

Oh, I forgot to mention this:

If I were in your position. I would seriously consider going to NYU (or whatever school you desperately want to go to and have a good shot at getting in) immediately and DEMANDyou talk to an admission committee member or the dean of admissions. Seriously. I would not take NO for an answer, if you are COMPLETELY torn on this issue. Tell him/her your situation and that you would like to know about the school's current standing on the waitlist, your chances of getting in, how likely it would be, how many people will be accepted, how many people withdrew recently, sholly money for waitlist candidates, etc. Tell them this is very urgent, as you're under an extreme time constraint on making a decision. (From my experience, most people are complete douches on the phone in admission offices for elite end schools. Not trying to generalize, I've talked to some REALLY nice people to but yeah it's much easier to say, "Oh my, we don't allow candidates to speak to committee members." on the phone than when you're in a suit, in person, in the office, first thing in the morning and ask politely but sternly, I NEED to speak to an admit counselor/member. (I would suggest you go Monday morning if possible.) I would tell them you sincerely wish to go to this school and if they are willing to accept you and you can have a general guarantee (the dean says he'll do everything he can to get you in/really likes your enthusiasm/etc. everything is going great) you would be willing to go to this school immediately. That is what I would do. This is AFTER you have already sent them LOCI. (I'm presuming that you're a smart and responsible person that is trying to do everything to make a decision, otherwise you wouldn't be on this forum. So I would have a LOCI)

Other hints:
- Take note and remember the secretary's name in the office.
- Write a thank you note/another LOCI immediately after the trip to the admission counselor/dean/member that talked to you and then also mention the secretary and how "nice and responsive they were". Also write that they helpful and anything else that stood out on your visit.
- TRY TO GET THE PERSON'S PERSONAL BUSINESS EMAIL INSTEAD OF THE ADMISSION@WHATEVERSCHOOL.EDU They all have one, though it's not listed. ASK FOR THEIR CARD POLITELY.

bigben
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby bigben » Sat May 01, 2010 6:18 pm

free GULC > MVP sticker

Close call between CCN sticker and free GULC
Last edited by bigben on Sat May 01, 2010 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DanInALionsDen
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby DanInALionsDen » Sat May 01, 2010 6:19 pm

Jason321123 wrote:Oh, I forgot to mention this:

If I were in your position. I would seriously consider going to NYU (or whatever school you desperately want to go to and have a good shot at getting in) immediately and DEMANDyou talk to an admission committee member or the dean of admissions. Seriously. I would not take NO for an answer, if you are COMPLETELY torn on this issue. Tell him/her your situation and that you would like to know about the school's current standing on the waitlist, your chances of getting in, how likely it would be, how many people will be accepted, how many people withdrew recently, sholly money for waitlist candidates, etc. Tell them this is very urgent, as you're under an extreme time constraint on making a decision. (From my experience, most people are complete douches on the phone in admission offices for elite end schools. Not trying to generalize, I've talked to some REALLY nice people to but yeah it's much easier to say, "Oh my, we don't allow candidates to speak to committee members." on the phone than when you're in a suit, in person, in the office, first thing in the morning and ask politely but sternly, I NEED to speak to an admit counselor/member. (I would suggest you go Monday morning if possible.) I would tell them you sincerely wish to go to this school and if they are willing to accept you and you can have a general guarantee (the dean says he'll do everything he can to get you in/really likes your enthusiasm/etc. everything is going great) you would be willing to go to this school immediately. That is what I would do. This is AFTER you have already sent them LOCI. (I'm presuming that you're a smart and responsible person that is trying to do everything to make a decision, otherwise you wouldn't be on this forum. So I would have a LOCI)

Other hints:
- Take note and remember the secretary's name in the office.
- Write a thank you note/another LOCI immediately after the trip to the admission counselor/dean/member that talked to you and then also mention the secretary and how "nice and responsive they were". Also write that they helpful and anything else that stood out on your visit.
- TRY TO GET THE PERSON'S PERSONAL BUSINESS EMAIL INSTEAD OF THE ADMISSION@WHATEVERSCHOOL.EDU They all have one, though it's not listed. ASK FOR THEIR CARD POLITELY.


Umm... I did consider visiting NYU's admissions office in person, and I've already sent a LOCI, but the rest of your advice.......

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vanwinkle
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby vanwinkle » Sat May 01, 2010 6:20 pm

Jason321123 wrote:If I were in your position. I would seriously consider going to NYU (or whatever school you desperately want to go to and have a good shot at getting in) immediately and DEMANDyou talk to an admission committee member or the dean of admissions. Seriously. I would not take NO for an answer, if you are COMPLETELY torn on this issue.

I'm sure that showing up unannounced and making explicit demands is a great way to spur them into action. I'm sure they'll pick up the phone and call someone to immediately take care of the problem, too.

Image

DanInALionsDen
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby DanInALionsDen » Sat May 01, 2010 6:21 pm

bigben wrote:free GULC > MVP sticker

Close call between CCN sticker and free GULC


I know it sounds presumptuous, but with my financial circumstances, I doubt I'd pay sticker anywhere I got in during a regular cycle. I think I'd get some kind of grant everywhere. I'm as poor as it gets pretty much.

DanInALionsDen
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby DanInALionsDen » Sat May 01, 2010 6:23 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
Jason321123 wrote:If I were in your position. I would seriously consider going to NYU (or whatever school you desperately want to go to and have a good shot at getting in) immediately and DEMANDyou talk to an admission committee member or the dean of admissions. Seriously. I would not take NO for an answer, if you are COMPLETELY torn on this issue.

I'm sure that showing up unannounced and making explicit demands is a great way to spur them into action. I'm sure they'll pick up the phone and call someone to immediately take care of the problem, too.

Image


Hahaha. I was going to respond with something along those lines...

I'm pretty sure entering private property and refusing to leave when asked connotes trespassing, even if you are there to talk to an admissions officer.

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nealric
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Re: I apologize in advance... GULC $$$$. v. t13 question

Postby nealric » Sat May 01, 2010 6:24 pm

As a soon to be GULC grad, I would repeat the suggestion that anything other than HYS isn't really worth it over GULC full ride. Worst case scenario is that you miss out on biglaw. If that happens, at least you aren't in debt. Miss out on biglaw from NYU and you are up a creek.




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