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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:39 am 
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TT09 wrote:
txag10 wrote:
I would definately say STCL. TW and St. Mary's are simply...I often forget the exist. STCL has decent job placement, especially in Houston.

Adding in TTU, Lubbock for three years sounds like hell on earth. Probably worse than Afghanistan.


And yet you went to A&M, where I would rather go to school in Afghanistan than go to school in that place. Horrible, horrible town.

STCL is probably the only real viable option out of it, Texas-Wesl. & St. Mary's ITE. Also, TTU is not a bad law school at all, but will probably isolate you only to that particular region and Eastern New Mexico.



Well I've been to College Station and Amarillo (which is close to Lubbock) and I've been to Afghanistan and have helped out at "schools" over there. I'm sure I'd take either of the former places over the latter.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:20 am 
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unc0mm0n1 wrote:
Well I've been to College Station and Amarillo (which is close to Lubbock) and I've been to Afghanistan and have helped out at "schools" over there. I'm sure I'd take either of the former places over the latter.

But only because the Afghan legal market is doing better ITE than ours.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:33 am 
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emhellmer wrote:
DamnLSAT wrote:
emhellmer wrote:

That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Sounds like you got thrown out of a bar in Dallas and have bitter feelings. Dallas is by far the best city compared to SA, Fort Worth and Houston. Austin would probably be the best (for someone in their 20s/30s) but Dallas has everything anyone could want if they want to live in the south: great restaurants, great weather, great sports teams, great big-name companies, and an affluent population (for the south :)) Fort worth is the armpit of Dallas... There's a reason it's DFW and not FWD.

The only thing you get if you go to SA or Houston is fat. Bet the mortgage on that one.


:lol: LOL! I've been around this fine state, and there are a few things that I have learned (these are true 90% of the time):
1. People in Houston are fat.
2. People in SA are fat.
3. People in Dallas are fat.
4. The restraunts in Austin suck.
5. Houston is the only city in which it is socially acceptable to publicly boo the Cowboys.
6. Houstonites and Dallasites always argue about which city is better.
7. Austinites think the rest of the state is insane (with the exception of Fort Worth, which afterall does house the Kimble art museum.


WOA! what restaurants***** have you been to in Austin? You've obviously been to the wrong places lol.. Austin is known for its good food.


As for the OP, I'd say if you're really hell bent on these three schools, go to South Texas. Did you think about applying to Houston part-time?


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:01 pm 
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emhellmer wrote:
DamnLSAT wrote:
emhellmer wrote:

That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Sounds like you got thrown out of a bar in Dallas and have bitter feelings. Dallas is by far the best city compared to SA, Fort Worth and Houston. Austin would probably be the best (for someone in their 20s/30s) but Dallas has everything anyone could want if they want to live in the south: great restaurants, great weather, great sports teams, great big-name companies, and an affluent population (for the south :)) Fort worth is the armpit of Dallas... There's a reason it's DFW and not FWD.

The only thing you get if you go to SA or Houston is fat. Bet the mortgage on that one.


:lol: LOL! I've been around this fine state, and there are a few things that I have learned (these are true 90% of the time):
1. People in Houston are fat.
2. People in SA are fat.
3. People in Dallas are fat.
4. The restraunts in Austin suck.
5. Houston is the only city in which it is socially acceptable to publicly boo the Cowboys.
6. Houstonites and Dallasites always argue about which city is better.
7. Austinites think the rest of the state is insane (with the exception of Fort Worth, which afterall does house the Kimble art museum.


1. So are people in the US
2. So are people in the US
3. So are people in the US
4. They're not bad
5. Never heard of the Cowboys but I've heard of the Cowgirls
6. Some of the best hospitals in the world and NASA...I guess Houston wins
7. Austinites are a bunch of hippies...but the state is a right-wing nut-job state

As for the OP's question, everyone I know who went to South Texas is not very fond of their Alma Mater, and that includes the attorney I work for. I heard from someone who went to Saint Mary's that he chose to go there because he liked their program and I have a friend who is applying there, so it might be a better experience than South Texas. I don't know anything about Wesley...sorry. One thing i have heard from anyone who goes to a 4th tier school is that the school does not matter as long as you can practice after you graduate and that the best thing you can do is reduce your debt


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:31 am 
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Obviously, there are people in the world that don't want to work at a BIG firm. While it is true that Tex Wes doesn't get looked at as often as SMU for those jobs, there are other considerations.
Texas Wesleyan is a terrific school, that isn't full of a bunch of elitest-snobs. Our students and our graduates are well-respected in the metroplex. We have wonderful advocacy programs--our Moot Court is competing internationally this year after winning Nationals. We have terrific professors, my Property Professor--Gabriel Eckstein--is on the UN Board and is internationally known for his expertise in water law. Our professors care about the students, and they follow the open door policy we tell student about when they come to visit.
I am just finishing my first year here--I have a paid position with a Dallas firm the first half of the summer, and a clerkship with a Federal Judge the second half.
If you are looking for a great school that actually cares, and has a great reputation in the community, you want to take part in building for the future (after all we are only 20 years old) and a great education at a good price, please come visit--we would love to show you around.
To the one who thinks that FW is the "armpit of Texas." While I may love Dallas, I also love Fort Worth. But I hate people with attitudes like yours no matter where they live.
My ex-BIL went to SMU and then went out of state for a position. He said he would never pay that kind of money again for the same education he could get for half the price, and he would actually know what to do when he was done.
When I am done in two years, you can put me up against anyone else in my field and I promise I will work smarter, do just as well or better, and be far less filled with a b.s. sense of entitlement while I am doing it.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:49 am 
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+1


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:07 am 
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txchick wrote:
Texas Wesleyan is a terrific school, that isn't full of a bunch of elitest-snobs.

Is there a Texas law school that is full of a bunch of elitist snobs?


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:29 am 
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txchick wrote:
Obviously, there are people in the world that don't want to work at a BIG firm. While it is true that Tex Wes doesn't get looked at as often as SMU for those jobs, there are other considerations.
Texas Wesleyan is a terrific school, that isn't full of a bunch of elitest-snobs. Our students and our graduates are well-respected in the metroplex. We have wonderful advocacy programs--our Moot Court is competing internationally this year after winning Nationals. We have terrific professors, my Property Professor--Gabriel Eckstein--is on the UN Board and is internationally known for his expertise in water law. Our professors care about the students, and they follow the open door policy we tell student about when they come to visit.
I am just finishing my first year here--I have a paid position with a Dallas firm the first half of the summer, and a clerkship with a Federal Judge the second half.
If you are looking for a great school that actually cares, and has a great reputation in the community, you want to take part in building for the future (after all we are only 20 years old) and a great education at a good price, please come visit--we would love to show you around.
To the one who thinks that FW is the "armpit of Texas." While I may love Dallas, I also love Fort Worth. But I hate people with attitudes like yours no matter where they live.
My ex-BIL went to SMU and then went out of state for a position. He said he would never pay that kind of money again for the same education he could get for half the price, and he would actually know what to do when he was done.
When I am done in two years, you can put me up against anyone else in my field and I promise I will work smarter, do just as well or better, and be far less filled with a b.s. sense of entitlement while I am doing it.



There are so many things wrong with this, I'll just hit the main ones.

1) Paid summer positions aren't terribly difficult to find around here. They are just $10 - $14 an hour law clerk positions.
2) You have an internship with a judge, which is not hard to get. I have one, so how hard can it be? Clerkships are paid positions after graduation.
3) You get the same basic education at every law school. What you pay for is the name and the doors that it opens. Despite your rosy picture, Wesleyan opens very few doors in D/FW. I've had people who hire tell me that a Wesleyan application is literally just thrown in the trash.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:38 am 
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There is some downright terrible advice in this thread. I would really hesitate to pay sticker at UT in this economy (if I could've gotten in). If you want to work in Houston, go to UH. If you want Dallas, go to SMU. Don't go to either unless you're getting considerable scholarship $$$.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:55 am 
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ebo wrote:
There is some downright terrible advice in this thread. I would really hesitate to pay sticker at UT in this economy (if I could've gotten in). If you want to work in Houston, go to UH. If you want Dallas, go to SMU. Don't go to either unless you're getting considerable scholarship $$$.


Speaking of downright terrible advice...


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:01 pm 
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I love San Antonio, so I would go to St. Mary's if those were my options - the school has a nice old Gothic feel to it too.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:02 pm 
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Just minimize your debt, OP. TITCR.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:13 pm 
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TT09 wrote:
ebo wrote:
There is some downright terrible advice in this thread. I would really hesitate to pay sticker at UT in this economy (if I could've gotten in). If you want to work in Houston, go to UH. If you want Dallas, go to SMU. Don't go to either unless you're getting considerable scholarship $$$.


Speaking of downright terrible advice...

Care to explain???


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:17 pm 
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ebo wrote:
TT09 wrote:
ebo wrote:
There is some downright terrible advice in this thread. I would really hesitate to pay sticker at UT in this economy (if I could've gotten in). If you want to work in Houston, go to UH. If you want Dallas, go to SMU. Don't go to either unless you're getting considerable scholarship $$$.


Speaking of downright terrible advice...

Care to explain???


Paying an extra $48k to get a law degree from UT vs. SMU is easily worth it.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:40 pm 
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[quote]Just minimize your debt, OP. TITCR./quote]

This post is over a year old. The only reason it came back to life was because txchic decided to sing the praises of Texas Wesleyan.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:43 pm 
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Stringer Bell wrote:
ebo wrote:
TT09 wrote:
ebo wrote:
There is some downright terrible advice in this thread. I would really hesitate to pay sticker at UT in this economy (if I could've gotten in). If you want to work in Houston, go to UH. If you want Dallas, go to SMU. Don't go to either unless you're getting considerable scholarship $$$.


Speaking of downright terrible advice...

Care to explain???


Paying an extra $48k to get a law degree from UT vs. SMU is easily worth it.

All of these people attending law schools with shitloads of debt in this economy is frightening to me

http://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpet ... anewbubble
http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/10/peter- ... education/

IMO, if you're paying sticker and taking on a ton of debt at SMU or UH, you're really headed down a slippery slope with no guarantees in three years. I'd still go to Texas at sticker (again, assuming I could've gotten in) but I'd be scared shitless doing it. In three years I'll graduate (hopefully) from SMU with very manageable debt (comparatively speaking) and it still worries the hell out of me. People keep saying the legal market will rebound and be better for law students looking for jobs in 2-4 years, but no one knows for sure. For all we know, it could be worse. As for taking on a tens of thousands (if not six figures) of debt to go to TW, St. Mary's, or STCL (as people in this thread have advised), well, that doesn't make a lot of sense in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:44 pm 
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sceva31st wrote:
Quote:
Just minimize your debt, OP. TITCR./quote]

This post is over a year old. The only reason it came back to life was because txchic decided to sing the praises of Texas Wesleyan.

Just realized that...nevermind.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:45 pm 
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sceva31st wrote:
Quote:
Just minimize your debt, OP. TITCR.


This post is over a year old. The only reason it came back to life was because txchic decided to sing the praises of Texas Wesleyan.


Actually it looks like it was a little under a year old and got bumped with this in January (not sure why this poster didn't just start a new thread).

irenic wrote:
Throwing Texas Tech into the mix, where do you think it mixes in? I'm from Austin and currently live in San Antonio and I'm increasingly interested in St. Mary's. As far as San Antonio and Austin area are concerned, is St. Mary's the best choice (assuming you aren't accepted into UT or Baylor?


Then Tx Chic bumped it to pimp Tx Wesleyan.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:36 pm 
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Hey ebo, do you have any grasp on how Texas Tech grads do in the DFW market?


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:43 pm 
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irenic wrote:
Hey ebo, do you have any grasp on how Texas Tech grads do in the DFW market?

I would guess they do worse than Baylor grads which do worse than SMU grads which do worse than UT grads. Perhaps someone else can shed some more light on the subject


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:32 pm 
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irenic wrote:
Hey ebo, do you have any grasp on how Texas Tech grads do in the DFW market?


The fact that you can't easily find anything on their site regarding employment statistics contrasted with how readily available information about their chili cookoff is should be a pretty good indication.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:40 pm 
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There's some unfair statements made about Tex Wes in this thread.

It is true that Tex Wes grads have a harder time finding jobs, especially biglaw and corporate jobs, than SMU, UT, Tech, or Baylor. Some of that is attributable to the school's status. Some is attributable to the school's location. Some is attributable to the small number of well-placed almuni. None of it has to do with an actual lack of learning, capabilities of the professors, etc. (although I don't think anybody had argued that.) We have highly placed advocacy programs, students winning national writing competitions, etc.

I have serious problems with several administrative functions of the school. I think it has been incredibly slow to expand its academic functions to advance out of the T4 category (except this year it seems to be doing a lot, including preparing to open a second law review). Career services is seemingly useless. However, if you look at discussions of other schools, people have pretty much the same complaints (even at HYS).

It is intellectually dishonest to say that Tex Wes grads or T4 grads have little or no employment opportunities. There are plenty of people at T14 schools that will graduate with no job. Many who will take any job they can find even if it is out of their desired practice field, desired geographic location, desired firm size, etc. Many will go on to non-law jobs like selling insurance (seriously). Again I concede it may be more difficult for Tex Wes grads than UT grads to find jobs, but it's not like nobody hires from Tex Wes and everybody from UT, South Texas, or wherever always gets jobs.

I have come across several firms, public interest groups and government offices that express a preference for Tex Wes grads than other Texas schools. They tell me our grads are well taught, appreciate the job (even if it is because it is the only option to take) and tend to want to advance within the organization that desperately bouncing from firm to firm to try to squeeze into biglaw. So if you plan on practicing locally in DFW and you are not accepted to SMU, receive a better scholarship to Tex Wes, etc. then it does make sense to go to Tex Wes and spend your time networking. If you want to fly solo in the area it makes just as much sense to go to Tex Wes as it does SMU or any other school that will get you through the bar since you don't have to compete with others for your job.

There are many reasons to chose a different school for sure, but not even a HLS JD will guarantee you any job but a solo practice.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:54 pm 
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irenic wrote:
Hey ebo, do you have any grasp on how Texas Tech grads do in the DFW market?


http://www.texasbar.com/AM/Template.cfm ... ntID=13350

Dallas county

http://www.texasbar.com/AM/Template.cfm ... ntID=13353

Tarrant county

Also keep in mind how many lawyers each schools graduate when you draw your conclusions.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:55 pm 
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busted wrote:
It is intellectually dishonest to say that Tex Wes grads or T4 grads have little or no employment opportunities.

Lol. I love that you get on your high horse and as a Tex Wes student claim "intellectual dishonesty" on those who warn against it, yet these garbage comparisons come out:

busted wrote:
However, if you look at discussions of other schools, people have pretty much the same complaints (even at HYS)

Let's be intellectually honest here. No, HYS students don't really complain about the same problems (literally no real job traction through their career services), that T4 gutter school students do, now do they? Faulty comparison.

busted wrote:
There are many reasons to chose a different school for sure, but not even a HLS JD will guarantee you any job but a solo practice.

"Busted" again. Man Cooley would love you. Nobody really believes that a job is guaranteed through Harvard, epic straw man tactic right there my friend. But students certainly have a much better shot at their dream job if they work hard, and people understand this difference between Harvard and T4 bottom feeders. Ask yourself this question. How many top firms come to your school every year for OCI?

Sure, students will succeed coming out of T4s, but those students usually have a real grasp about what they are up against when they come out of those schools. You my friend are not one of those people.


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 Post subject: Re: St. Marys, Texas Wesleyan, or South Texas?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:40 pm 
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esq wrote:
busted wrote:
It is intellectually dishonest to say that Tex Wes grads or T4 grads have little or no employment opportunities.

Lol. I love that you get on your high horse and as a Tex Wes student claim "intellectual dishonesty" on those who warn against it, yet these garbage comparisons come out:


*yawn*

esq wrote:
busted wrote:
However, if you look at discussions of other schools, people have pretty much the same complaints (even at HYS)

Let's be intellectually honest here. No, HYS students don't really complain about the same problems (literally no real job traction through their career services), that T4 gutter school students do, now do they? Faulty comparison.


Not so. I recently spoke with a HLS 1L who was complaining about how useless he felt career services is and how bad their advice is. Take a look pretty much anywhere on the internet and you'll find people complaining about career services at whatever school they attend. (The youtube videos are a more entertaining way to see the criticism...) Similarly, you can look around and see people bemoaning every other aspect of their school. E.g. professors are jerks, student organizations serve as resume filler, dishonest employment data, etc. That doesn't mean that the students at HLS have the same degree of frustration with career services.

You edited out all of my actual point -- no law school is perfect, some schools are clearly better than others, going to a T4 school does not mean never finding a satisfactory job.

The only way you get around appreciating the legitimacy of my position -- which agrees with some of yours -- is to whitewash it with the tired belief that you must go to X level schools or better or you will never get a job or the more ridiculous position that people coming out of T3 and T4 schools are ruining employment opportunities for everybody.

esq wrote:
busted wrote:
There are many reasons to chose a different school for sure, but not even a HLS JD will guarantee you any job but a solo practice.

"Busted" again. Man Cooley would love you. Nobody really believes that a job is guaranteed through Harvard, epic straw man tactic right there my friend. But students certainly have a much better shot at their dream job if they work hard, and people understand this difference between Harvard and T4 bottom feeders. Ask yourself this question. How many top firms come to your school every year for OCI?


Um, you're saying the same thing I am saying. Chances of landing a biglaw job, many government jobs, high ranked firms, etc. are obviously much better at a higher ranked school than a T4 school. I mean, who's going to disagree with that??

Not everybody goes to law school intending to work in one of those roles. Lots of my classmates intend to work at small firms in the area. Those firms are ran by and filled with people who went to Tex Wes. They in turn hire out of our graduating classes. Some intend to solo practice. Some have positions secured by family members waiting for them when they graduate. They don't need to go to a better school.

Quote:
Sure, students will succeed coming out of T4s, but those students usually have a real grasp about what they are up against when they come out of those schools. You my friend are not one of those people.


That's impressive that you were able to distill that out of a single post, especially considering not a word of it was in reference to myself or my expectations upon graduation. It's even more impressive considering that you completely missed the point of what I said above. But hey, I guess that's why all the big firms are clamoring for you, right?


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