Is Notre Dame Worth Sticker?

[clint4law]

You really need to retake in June. There is no downside.

I'm gonna think about it and finalize my decision by Wednesday. Thanks so much for the input. I'm very grateful.

[clint4law]

[quote="clint4law"

Yeah...but I like to have the flexibility of having a portable degree. while i'm certain i'll end up back home the portability factor is a +

Right, so why not go to one of the T14s?

I still have business ties in the Midwest and will be making frequent visits during my 1L (Chicago and Madison). Only T14s I considered were Michigan and NU (I hate UChicago)...was Held and then rejected by NU. Waitlisted at Michigan.

Oh! I misunderstood. I had thought you said you were accepted to two other T14s outside of the midwest.

Can you maybe try and leverage UIUC $ with ND?[/quote]

I tried and failed

[clint4law]

[quote="clint4law"

Yeah...but I like to have the flexibility of having a portable degree. while i'm certain i'll end up back home the portability factor is a +

Right, so why not go to one of the T14s?

I still have business ties in the Midwest and will be making frequent visits during my 1L (Chicago and Madison). Only T14s I considered were Michigan and NU (I hate UChicago)...was Held and then rejected by NU. Waitlisted at Michigan.

Oh! I misunderstood. I had thought you said you were accepted to two other T14s outside of the midwest.

Can you maybe try and leverage UIUC $ with ND?

I tried and failed[/quote]

I was accepted to a few T14s outside the midwest but because of recent business developments I'm unable to move out east

[woeisme]

FWIW, I'll be going to ND or Emory at half rather than Cornell at sticker. I'd have chosen either of them over GULC as well, had I gotten in (w/ sticker). If Duke or UVA had come through, that's another story.

seriously? why? Is it a south thing?

[fortissimo]

ND got flattened at OCIs (to be fair, there was a bit of a "bubble" going on before, with some unusually good summers at places like K&E), though there seems to be as much geographic flexibility as ever for non-biglaw stuff.

Obviously, Michigan (and then NU) would be preferred over anything here, but I don't think the decision is stupid in an of itself... just maybe stupid when made in contrast to other options

Of late, NU seems to be outplacing Michigan in Chicago.

wow. self-selection?

Not sure this is true, but if so, yes considering Chicago sends the second highest number of offices to our OCI. Keep in mind that a very large portion of Mich students are not from the Midwest. There are many East Coasters and West Coasters. Out of my friends, less than 20% are targeting Chicago at OCI. Most of us are bidding on NYC, DC, or SF at OCI. We get a shit load of Chicago offices at OCI though (second highest number of offices...after NYC offices, and I think it's still our second most popular destination for grads (after NYC). We get a shit load of NYC, Chicago, and DC offices in the sum.

[flcath]

FWIW, I'll be going to ND or Emory at half rather than Cornell at sticker. I'd have chosen either of them over GULC as well, had I gotten in (w/ sticker). If Duke or UVA had come through, that's another story.

seriously? why? Is it a south thing?

My brother was c/o 2009 (slightly above median) at one of the aforementioned. Long story short: in addition to (objectively) poor QoL and long hours, he was unable to land *anything* in the area of the country his SO needs (we have strong non-legal connections to said area) for several months after graduation. His opinion: 1. he should have gone to Penn (got basically same $ there) and 2. he'd have been better off at Vandy or Emory for what he ended up wanting (I think he's factoring in the "higher class rank due to decreased quality of completion" factor, which is the ultimate whiner move)

Not saying you should make decisions based off anecdotes, but seeing some of the issues we gloss over here on TLS play out firsthand (and things worked out fine; not trying to be melodramatic) makes me a little more cautious/detached in my decision-making than I'd otherwise be.

Edit: Also, I want to do an Article III clerkship, and Cornell is TTTerrible at these. They say no one there wants them, but I can only believe so much self-selection: 1 COA clerk?

[woeisme]

My brother was c/o 2009 (slightly above median) at one of the aforementioned. Long story short: in addition to (objectively) poor QoL and long hours, he was unable to land *anything* in the area of the country his SO needs (we have strong non-legal connections to said area) for several months after graduation. His opinion: 1. he should have gone to Penn (got basically same $ there) and 2. he'd have been better off at Vandy or Emory for what he ended up wanting (I think he's factoring in the "higher class rank due to decreased quality of completion" factor, which is the ultimate whiner move)

Not saying you should make decisions based off anecdotes, but seeing some of the issues we gloss over here on TLS play out firsthand (and things worked out fine; not trying to be melodramatic) makes me a little more cautious/detached in my decision-making than I'd otherwise be.

Edit: Also, I want to do an Article III clerkship, and Cornell is TTTerrible at these. They say no one there wants them, but I can only believe so much self-selection: 1 COA clerk?

So are we talking about Cornell and not GULC then? Either way, though, a couple comments are worth noting:

(1) You shouldn't assume that you'll do better at a "worse" school because of the difference in competition. It's just not really something you should rely on. And I hope that you're aware that Cornell (and GULC) provide for more prestigious opportunities than either ND or Emory. Indeed, many people here (including myself) turned down full-rides to schools ranked even higher than ND/Emory for Cornell.

(2) I recently attended a clerkship meeting in which we were provided information about who is doing clerkships. Three peers doing COA clerkships immediately come to mind... so I'd double check your information.

[nocal]

I didn't see anyone give this link, which might be helpful. It is NLJ 250 + clerkships. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=108528.

[chadwick218]

I didn't see anyone give this link, which might be helpful. It is NLJ 250 + clerkships. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=108528.

A good link, but this really represents hiring decesions made in the Summer of 2008, when a legal market still existed. Although ND c/o 2009 placed 28% into biglaw, the downturn in the economy has been much more profound at schools like ND than T14's. I wouldn't be surprised is ND c/o 2011 placement was under 15%.

[nocal]

That's complete conjecture. The chart shows the facts. Why would ND be affected disproportionately? And if they were, why would that be expected to continue as the economy recovers, as it certainly well before any current OLs graduate?

[chadwick218]

That's complete conjecture. The chart shows the facts. Why would ND be affected disproportionately? And if they were, why would that be expected to continue as the economy recovers, as it certainly well before any current OLs graduate?

Sure, but the chart is based on hiring trends in 2008 and thereby reflects the last of the "good times" in the legal market.

Even for those who will be in the c/o 2013, if the market doesn't recover by 2011, you are still pretty much in the same boat as all of the classes immediately before you.

[flcath]

So are we talking about Cornell and not GULC then?

I didn't get into GULC, so really whether I'd choose GULC over a T25 w/ $$ remains unknown, and unimportant.

I guess I did sort of turn down GULC-PT by not checking that I'd accept it on the app (I think I'd have probably gotten in). I was worried they might PT me even if they'd have let me in FT if not given the option (I have no idea if they actually do this).

(1) You shouldn't assume that you'll do better at a "worse" school because of the difference in competition. It's just not really something you should rely on.

I agree with the bolded, but it probably (well, definitely) does happen. Which is why I say it's the first excuse of whiners... well, maybe second, after the one about how the LSAT doesn't do a good job measuring x, y and z.

And I hope that you're aware that Cornell (and GULC) provide for more prestigious opportunities than either ND or Emory. Indeed, many people here (including myself) turned down full-rides to schools ranked even higher than ND/Emory for Cornell.

Sure, in general, of course. And you know that and I know that.
If you took sticker at Cornell (which you didn't say you did, but that's what I have) over a full-ride at a school ranked better than #20, you probably made an illogical decision... which is not to say it won't work out for you.

(2) I recently attended a clerkship meeting in which we were provided information about who is doing clerkships. Three peers doing COA clerkships immediately come to mind... so I'd double check your information.

Cornell has always had this rep, and if you're there I'm sure you're aware of it. The 1 figure comes from an incomplete list done of last years federal clerks. I was kinda kidding, I think the low #s might actually put Cornell kids at an advantage.