Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

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dreaming
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby dreaming » Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:02 pm

MURPH wrote:
danieltorrey wrote:Yeah, I am an URM. But what is odd is that I was checking LSN, and there are some people there who made into GW with lower LSATs than mine for the 2009-2010 cycle. Some even as low as 148 LSAT and 2.91 GPA. That is wayyyyy lowwr than mine. Its hard to tell what is the criteria for acceptance, the acceptance process is not very transparent. How am I supposed to verify, for example, if I am not being discriminated against?
Anyway, thank you for the input, it's much appreciated!

You know, letting us know the fact that you are a URM would probably have made the last ten entries in this thread unnecessary. As such you have as good a chance as anyone to get in off the waitlist. Good Luck. Also GW maintains a chart on their admission web site of GPA and LSAT scores.


Do URMs have a better chance of getting off waitlists??

Sias
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby Sias » Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:03 pm

danieltorrey wrote:Yeah, I am an URM. But what is odd is that I was checking LSN, and there are some people there who made into GW with lower LSATs than mine for the 2009-2010 cycle. Some even as low as 148 LSAT and 2.91 GPA. That is wayyyyy lowwr than mine. Its hard to tell what is the criteria for acceptance, the acceptance process is not very transparent. How am I supposed to verify, for example, if I am not being discriminated against?
Anyway, thank you for the input, it's much appreciated!


lol

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cigrainger
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby cigrainger » Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:12 pm

mistergoft wrote:
danieltorrey wrote:In addition, I don't have a traditional American 4.0 scale GPA because I am foreign graduated; however, my undergrad is in law (LL.B degree, aka Bachelor of Laws) in a civil law country, with strong grade average (8.7 on a 0 to 10 scale)

87/100 is a B+ which is equivalent to a 3.3 gpa...

In what world is a 3.3 a good gpa?


Because that 8.7/10 does not equal 87/100 on a US scale, and probably isn't graded as a 'B+'. For example, where I go to school, at least for social sciences and humanities, getting an 87 is far more difficult than getting a 100 on a paper in the US. 87 is the kind of grade you only hear about in rumors, and if someone averaged 87, they would without doubt have the highest average ever at the university in the social sciences and humanities. Here, 70+ is equivalent to a 4.0 in the US. But any way you go about it, LSAC does not provide a numerical GPA for foreign undergraduate transcripts.

Torrey, what did they give you for your transcript? Above average, superior?

danieltorrey
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby danieltorrey » Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:24 pm

MURPH wrote:
danieltorrey wrote:Yeah, I am an URM. But what is odd is that I was checking LSN, and there are some people there who made into GW with lower LSATs than mine for the 2009-2010 cycle. Some even as low as 148 LSAT and 2.91 GPA. That is wayyyyy lowwr than mine. Its hard to tell what is the criteria for acceptance, the acceptance process is not very transparent. How am I supposed to verify, for example, if I am not being discriminated against?
Anyway, thank you for the input, it's much appreciated!

You know, letting us know the fact that you are a URM would probably have made the last ten entries in this thread unnecessary. As such you have as good a chance as anyone to get in off the waitlist. Good Luck. Also GW maintains a chart on their admission web site of GPA and LSAT scores.



Yeah, you are right, I apologize. How would you figure the URM status may come into play at the wait-list level though? Several people already told me that at this point it is a neglectable factor, so that's why I didn't mention it.

danieltorrey
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby danieltorrey » Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:29 pm

cigrainger wrote:
mistergoft wrote:
danieltorrey wrote:In addition, I don't have a traditional American 4.0 scale GPA because I am foreign graduated; however, my undergrad is in law (LL.B degree, aka Bachelor of Laws) in a civil law country, with strong grade average (8.7 on a 0 to 10 scale)

87/100 is a B+ which is equivalent to a 3.3 gpa...

In what world is a 3.3 a good gpa?


Because that 8.7/10 does not equal 87/100 on a US scale, and probably isn't graded as a 'B+'. For example, where I go to school, at least for social sciences and humanities, getting an 87 is far more difficult than getting a 100 on a paper in the US. 87 is the kind of grade you only hear about in rumors, and if someone averaged 87, they would without doubt have the highest average ever at the university in the social sciences and humanities. Here, 70+ is equivalent to a 4.0 in the US. But any way you go about it, LSAC does not provide a numerical GPA for foreign undergraduate transcripts.

Torrey, what did they give you for your transcript? Above average, superior?


They gave me above average. But again, its based on a 2004 report, 6 years ago. Do you have any info on how would that rating translate for admissions evaluation?

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cigrainger
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby cigrainger » Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:18 pm

danieltorrey wrote:
cigrainger wrote:
mistergoft wrote:
danieltorrey wrote:In addition, I don't have a traditional American 4.0 scale GPA because I am foreign graduated; however, my undergrad is in law (LL.B degree, aka Bachelor of Laws) in a civil law country, with strong grade average (8.7 on a 0 to 10 scale)

87/100 is a B+ which is equivalent to a 3.3 gpa...

In what world is a 3.3 a good gpa?


Because that 8.7/10 does not equal 87/100 on a US scale, and probably isn't graded as a 'B+'. For example, where I go to school, at least for social sciences and humanities, getting an 87 is far more difficult than getting a 100 on a paper in the US. 87 is the kind of grade you only hear about in rumors, and if someone averaged 87, they would without doubt have the highest average ever at the university in the social sciences and humanities. Here, 70+ is equivalent to a 4.0 in the US. But any way you go about it, LSAC does not provide a numerical GPA for foreign undergraduate transcripts.

Torrey, what did they give you for your transcript? Above average, superior?


They gave me above average. But again, its based on a 2004 report, 6 years ago. Do you have any info on how would that rating translate for admissions evaluation?


I'm not sure, its a bit ambiguous. Above average is the second highest one they give out, from my understanding. You're a URM, and a 160 is not bad. Good luck.

danieltorrey
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby danieltorrey » Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:29 pm

danieltorrey wrote:
cigrainger wrote:
mistergoft wrote:
danieltorrey wrote:
Because that 8.7/10 does not equal 87/100 on a US scale, and probably isn't graded as a 'B+'. For example, where I go to school, at least for social sciences and humanities, getting an 87 is far more difficult than getting a 100 on a paper in the US. 87 is the kind of grade you only hear about in rumors, and if someone averaged 87, they would without doubt have the highest average ever at the university in the social sciences and humanities. Here, 70+ is equivalent to a 4.0 in the US. But any way you go about it, LSAC does not provide a numerical GPA for foreign undergraduate transcripts.

Torrey, what did they give you for your transcript? Above average, superior?


They gave me above average. But again, its based on a 2004 report, 6 years ago. Do you have any info on how would that rating translate for admissions evaluation?


I'm not sure, its a bit ambiguous. Above average is the second highest one they give out, from my understanding. You're a URM, and a 160 is not bad. Good luck.


:D
Last edited by danieltorrey on Mon May 03, 2010 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hoyasaxon
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby hoyasaxon » Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:40 pm

danieltorrey wrote:Yeah, I am an URM. But what is odd is that I was checking LSN, and there are some people there who made into GW with lower LSATs than mine for the 2009-2010 cycle. Some even as low as 148 LSAT and 2.91 GPA. That is wayyyyy lowwr than mine. Its hard to tell what is the criteria for acceptance, the acceptance process is not very transparent. How am I supposed to verify, for example, if I am not being discriminated against?
Anyway, thank you for the input, it's much appreciated!


that 148/2.91 is probably a backdoor, my relatives have donated millions of dollars to GW entrance....life's not fair-deal with it...my tardive roommate (144 lsat) from ug went to fordham law bc his father was on the board....i definitely would not take solace from someone getting in with a 148.

discrimination? you mean, your hoping to get accepted into a top 20 law-school with a median lsat that is a full 5 points higher than your highest lsat score, and the word "discrimination" is what comes to mind??? wow.

i say just be persistent with your loci's.......your numbers could just have easily constituted a quick DING; your urm status is probably still very beneficial-even in the WL stage, and i am willing to argue that as a non-urm, you should have been dinged straight up..hundreds of applicants with higher lsat's and very strong gpa's have been rejected.....

danieltorrey
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby danieltorrey » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:26 pm

deleted, see below.
Last edited by danieltorrey on Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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clintonius
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby clintonius » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:38 pm

Haha, who the fuck is this guy?

danieltorrey
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby danieltorrey » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:42 pm

clintonius wrote:Haha, who the fuck is this guy?


Taking about me?

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clintonius
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby clintonius » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:43 pm

Bah. Not worth it. My comment was brash and I apologize. Long day.

danieltorrey
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby danieltorrey » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:44 pm

:D
Last edited by danieltorrey on Mon May 03, 2010 5:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.

danieltorrey
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby danieltorrey » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:49 pm

clintonius wrote:Bah. Not worth it. My comment was brash and I apologize. Long day.


No worries mate, had a long day also!

Cheers!

hoyasaxon
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby hoyasaxon » Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:00 pm

danieltorrey wrote:
hoyasaxon wrote:
danieltorrey wrote:Yeah, I am an URM. But what is odd is that I was checking LSN, and there are some people there who made into GW with lower LSATs than mine for the 2009-2010 cycle. Some even as low as 148 LSAT and 2.91 GPA. That is wayyyyy lowwr than mine. Its hard to tell what is the criteria for acceptance, the acceptance process is not very transparent. How am I supposed to verify, for example, if I am not being discriminated against?
Anyway, thank you for the input, it's much appreciated!


that 148/2.91 is probably a backdoor, my relatives have donated millions of dollars to GW entrance....life's not fair-deal with it...my tardive roommate (144 lsat) from ug went to fordham law bc his father was on the board....i definitely would not take solace from someone getting in with a 148.

discrimination? you mean, your hoping to get accepted into a top 20 law-school with a median lsat that is a full 5 points higher than your highest lsat score, and the word "discrimination" is what comes to mind??? wow.

i say just be persistent with your loci's.......your numbers could just have easily constituted a quick DING; your urm status is probably still very beneficial-even in the WL stage, and i am willing to argue that as a non-urm, you should have been dinged straight up..hundreds of applicants with higher lsat's and very strong gpa's have been rejected.....



I understand that you may have found it strange that I brought up the word "discrimination" on a previous post. However, I said it as an example of unverifiability. I don't necessarily believe I am being discriminated against. Law school is almost as much about hypothesis as is philosophy, legal rules are actually hypothesis of incidence, so its good to get used to many hypothesis flying around, just for the sake of pushing the limits of a given rule or practice, Supreme Court Justices do that all the time.

So, assuming I was being discriminated against, there would be no way to hold anybody accountable because there would be no way to check that, just as there would be no way to know any other factor, like you said about the backdoor entrance.
Is it important to be able to verify whats the criteria for admissions? Sure, the first pillar of any republican system (res publica, which means, from latin, public thing) is accountability, as lawyers and prospective lawyers, we should strive for an environment that fosters accountability, and I dont think the current system fosters it enough. Am I going to just to trust someone I don't even know? Well, maybe, but it is important to have the accountability mechanisms in place anyway. That is all I was saying.

Anyway, I think the reason why I am still in the picture at GW and have been admitted to other good schools thus far is that I already hail from a legal background. Thus, do I hope to get into a top 20 school with just a 160 LSAT? Sure, I believe this legal background should compensate that; see, the LSAT was designed as a tool for schools to asses how likely an applicant would be in succeeding at law school. Well, foreign lawyers been there and done that. So I just think it is somewhat bis in idem.


so because you know some latin-derived legal terms- you believe that catapults you into serious contention for gw law? if anything, your extensive, thorough training and insight into legal thought (something almost noone else on this board has) should really have honed your analytical reasoning skills....this raises another flag about your lsat score..

you're familiar with fancy legal jargon, you've obviously been trained in the deduction tools necessary to be an attorney, and yet you can still only get 160? (160 is a rock solid score, dont get me wrong....but its below GW's 25th percentile..mere fact)

again, your numbers, even assuming an extraordinary grade point average, puts you more in line with the other DC law schools- your lsat is in fact below American's lsat median (163), a school slotted a full 28 spots lower in the usnwr rankings.

there are M.D's, phD's, international doctorates, and hundreds of masters degrees on this forum alone.....and many (not all) of them are finding their cycle to be a strict gpa/lsat numbers game...

plus, everyone on this forum has "extraordinary, unbelievable" softs...in their own heads...myself included.

that being said- i am rooting for you; you seem to be extremely interested in going to GW- and im sure your enthusiasm and ambtion will reflect well with the adcomm...i say keep pluggin away at them...

good luck
Last edited by hoyasaxon on Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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ziggystardust23
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby ziggystardust23 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:01 pm

Ugh 6 waitlists!

American
USC
William and Mary
Vanderbilt
University of Texas
BU

I think I'm going to wait out all of them but American, here's hoping for some movement soon!

Lt. Aldo Raine
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby Lt. Aldo Raine » Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:37 pm

If I may redirect from the flame war going on above, here's my cycle thus far. Stats are 3.85/168. I'm a URM with two years work experience after attending a strong (T5) undergrad.

Accepted:

Michigan
Texas
UCLA

Waitlisted:

Stanford
Columbia
NYU
Chicago
Duke
Virginia
Georgetown

Rejected:

Yale
Berkeley (during Faculty Review)

No Word:

Harvard

What would you guys set the over/under at for how many schools I would get into off of the wait list? I'm torn right now about whether to attend Michigan or reapply, but an acceptance from one of the first four schools on my wait list list would be a game-changer.

danieltorrey
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby danieltorrey » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:27 pm

:D
Last edited by danieltorrey on Mon May 03, 2010 5:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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MURPH
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby MURPH » Sat May 01, 2010 12:37 am

Some action on UVA

hopefulJAF (URM, ED) 163 3.9 WL, Accepted Accepted in November
abeleagueredmonk N 171 3.29 WL, Rejected
michan17 169 3.5 WL, Rejected
adyu 167 3.61 WL, Rejected
AgentSCo 169 2.9 WL, Rejected
Diskette15 169 3.6 WL, Rejected
Kilpatrick 171 3.16 WL, Rejected
shawshank 173 3.23 WL, Rejected
MURPH 175 2.98 WL, Rejected
dreyes (URM) 168 3.42 WL, Rejected
lionphish (URM) 169 3.45 WL, Rejected
elieli (URM) 171 3.65 WL, Rejected

75th GPA: 3.82 75th LSAT: 171
Median GPA: 3.68 Median LSAT: 169
25th GPA: 3.49 25th LSAT: 167

My theory is that schools have a goal median GPA and a goal median LSAT and probably one for % of URM. Our best guess is that they want to meet or exceed last years medians. In this case it seems that UVA is rejecting waitlisters with GPAs below last years median. No one has been rejected with a GPA above 3.68. LSAT scores are rejected all over the place, above 75% (like me), above and below the median, below 25%. Even elieli a URM with a LSAT above the 75% and GPA just below the median was WL--> Rejected. That is tough. I wonder what happened there?

If they accept anyone at this point is would be people with GPAs above 3.69 but like the earlier post said, they won't be doing it before summer. Since I am out at this point I won't be focusing on keeping track of this school but I encourage others to do so. There were 3 updates today on LSN plus mine. I'd imagine there will be a lot more data as people check their emails and post their info this weekend.

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MURPH
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby MURPH » Sat May 01, 2010 12:54 am

More on georgetown. I've included some old data from LSN and some update. The great news is they are still giving scholarships off of the WL.
gobearsss 173 3.28 WL, Accepted A
afinlay 169 3.8 WL, Accepted A (today)
IHaveDietMoxie 171 3.79 $96,000 WL, Accepted
pertristis N 177 3.42 $30,000 WL, Accepted
holybartender 176 3.35 WL, Accepted
acdisagod 171 3.6 WL, Accepted
Tecumseh 172 3.51 WL, Accepted
raspberryfruitcake WL, Accepted
daninalionsden 171 3.77 $120,000 WL, Accepted (today)
iamtaw 175 3.5 WL, Accepted
ornbarn 171 3.6 WL, Accepted
TX0L N 176 3.6 WL, Accepted
Beatrice 171 3.2 WL, Accepted
griddler 173 3.65 WL, Accepted
highsplit12 177 3.7 WL, Accepted
gscfire33 171 3.83 WL, Accepted
shawshank 173 3.23 WL, Accepted(today)
Xizenta 173 3.18 WL, Accepted(today)
semangat N 168 3.67 WL, Accepted(this week)
mrm2083 171 3.43 $37,500 WL, Accepted W(recent)
lck06 172 3.54 WL, Accepted W (recent)
Chezdik 172 3.71 WL, Accepted W(this week)
clintonius 172 3.8 WL, Accepted W(today)
razak 172 3.81 WL, Accepted W
pelmen74 170 3.7 WL, Accepted W(today)
keifer24 U 162 3.15 WL, Rejected
HailtoPitt U 167 3.3 WL, Rejected(this week)
1armedscissor 164 3.96 WL, Rejected W

75th GPA: 3.81 75th LSAT: 171
Median GPA: 3.7 Median LSAT: 168
25th GPA: 3.45 25th LSAT: 166

There doesn't seem to be any change in strategy here. They are still picking up people with LSATs equal to* or above the median and not accepting anyone with LSAT below the median. All the WL-->rejections are below the LSAT median. GPAs are all over the place.

* semangat N was accepted today with an LSAT score equal to the median. S/He is the lowest LSAT score accepted.

The fact that they are giving scholarships off of the waitlist is hopeful. I don't see any rhyme or reason behind who gets scholarships. Do you?

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MURPH
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby MURPH » Sat May 01, 2010 12:59 am

nothing new from Penn, Vanderbilt, Duke, Cornell

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MURPH
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby MURPH » Sat May 01, 2010 1:06 am

I went from hold to waitlist at Northwestern this week. That is basically WL-->WL as far as I am concerned.
Others have had more luck.

Shellbelle 171 3.3 WL, Accepted A 1 day
raspberryfruitcake ??? ??? WL, Accepted 2 days
worldpiece17 170 3.3 WL, Accepted 2 days
ainzabo7 (URM) 163 3.7 WL, Rejected 29 days
fl0w (URM) 161 3.3 WL, Rejected 30 days


75th GPA: 3.8 75th LSAT: 172
Median GPA: 3.7 Median LSAT: 170
25th GPA: 3.4 25th LSAT: 166

The two people accepted are = or above the LSAT median and below the GPA median. There isn't really enough info to do more than speculate. NU is known for valuing work experience and doing interviews as part of the application process. I felt that the interview was half to assess the candidate and half to sell the school.

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MURPH
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby MURPH » Sat May 01, 2010 1:10 am

dreaming wrote:
MURPH wrote:
danieltorrey wrote:Yeah, I am an URM. But what is odd is that I was checking LSN, and there are some people there who made into GW with lower LSATs than mine for the 2009-2010 cycle. Some even as low as 148 LSAT and 2.91 GPA. That is wayyyyy lowwr than mine. Its hard to tell what is the criteria for acceptance, the acceptance process is not very transparent. How am I supposed to verify, for example, if I am not being discriminated against?
Anyway, thank you for the input, it's much appreciated!

You know, letting us know the fact that you are a URM would probably have made the last ten entries in this thread unnecessary. As such you have as good a chance as anyone to get in off the waitlist. Good Luck. Also GW maintains a chart on their admission web site of GPA and LSAT scores.


Do URMs have a better chance of getting off waitlists??
Judging by what I've seen today they do not. My theory is they want to admit a certain % of the class as URMs. If they are not meeting that goal they will pick one off of the waitlist. Frankly you are unpredictable. You are a URM with no reportable GPA, a valuable degree in law but a below median LSAT score. I know you don't want to hear this but you need to retake the LSAT.

danieltorrey
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby danieltorrey » Sat May 01, 2010 1:26 am

MURPH wrote:
dreaming wrote:
MURPH wrote:
danieltorrey wrote:Yeah, I am an URM. But what is odd is that I was checking LSN, and there are some people there who made into GW with lower LSATs than mine for the 2009-2010 cycle. Some even as low as 148 LSAT and 2.91 GPA. That is wayyyyy lowwr than mine. Its hard to tell what is the criteria for acceptance, the acceptance process is not very transparent. How am I supposed to verify, for example, if I am not being discriminated against?
Anyway, thank you for the input, it's much appreciated!

You know, letting us know the fact that you are a URM would probably have made the last ten entries in this thread unnecessary. As such you have as good a chance as anyone to get in off the waitlist. Good Luck. Also GW maintains a chart on their admission web site of GPA and LSAT scores.


Do URMs have a better chance of getting off waitlists??
Judging by what I've seen today they do not. My theory is they want to admit a certain % of the class as URMs. If they are not meeting that goal they will pick one off of the waitlist. Frankly you are unpredictable. You are a URM with no reportable GPA, a valuable degree in law but a below median LSAT score. I know you don't want to hear this but you need to retake the LSAT.


You know, I have been considering that at this point, or just attending one of the schools I've been accepted at. Nah, GW is totally worth going the extra mile.
I have a question about the GPA though, if you don't mind me asking. I have an old U.S. GPA which was sent to LSAC and to the schools I applied to. At first I didn't make much of it, but at this point I am willing to think outside the box. Back in the day, when I first came to the USA, I took a few classes at a community college and got a 4.0 GPA there. It was a long time ago, before I got my LLB. It may be stretching up a little, but technically, do you think that could be the GPA the school reports?

Cheers.

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MURPH
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Re: Official TLS Wailisted to Accepted thread 2010

Postby MURPH » Sat May 01, 2010 2:00 am

You need to look that up on your LSAC profile. There are a couple of international applicant threads around where you could get more accurate info.




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