UCLA v. NYU/CLS Forum

[KG_CalGuy]

Some of you may have read my earlier thread which talked about the reasons for attending a higher ranked school regardless of funding, but out of curiosity (and hopefully valuable insight), I am curious as to which option you would pick. Some background info

• I have lived in CA my entire life and at this point am very interested in practicing in CA for my career regardless of what school I go to (however, I'm not against employment elsewhere if the right opportunity presents itself). I think Southern California (especially San Diego) would be a great place to live and raise a family but I also like SF.
• I have no idea what type of law I'd like to practice. I used to have a leaning towards international/human rights, but am not so sure about that anymore and think it's premature to commit myself to a particular field as of now. I am open to PI, private practice, or government work.
• I have a long-term gf (been dating for ~7yrs) who will still be in school in CA during my 1L year and is unsure about relocating (not that I feel she ought to feel compelled to in any way)
• I would like to do a clerkship if possible. Of course a SCOTUS clerkship is an extremely difficult opportunity to gain, but I'd like to at least try for that as a long-term goal.
• I've visited all three schools and find them all amazing.
• I'll be financing this almost exclusively on my own (so I'll be the one with the debt).

P.S. I like stats/concrete support. So try to avoid "in my opinion school X is just better" as your argument.

[KG_CalGuy]

really, no arguments presented?

[SHARK WEEK!]

Reasons for UCLA:

1. You have a large scholarship offer.
2. Your girlfriend lives there.
3. The weather is much better. Don't even go down the path of "oh, well I'd like to experience the seasons, so..." No. No you fucking don't.
4. The median salaries out of all three schools are the same. (Ok, so 160K won't get you as far in CA). So what. You get what you pay for. And NYC is not much cheaper.
5. CLS and NYU will give you a better shot of landing a SCOTUS clerkship, but that's like saying that a 1% chance of landing a SCOTUS clerkship is ten times better than a .1% chance of landing a SCOTUS clerkship. Yep. It is, but so fucking what. You're probably NOT going to land a SCOTUS clerkship anywhere you go, so don't let that be a consideration my friend.
6. UCLA is less douchey than CLS and NYU. Ok, that is arguable.

Go with the money. Go to UCLA.

[KG_CalGuy]

Reasons for UCLA:

3. The weather is much better. Don't even go down the path of "oh, well I'd like to experience the seasons, so..." No. No you fucking don't.

This seriously made me LOL. I would definitely be going to NY for city environment, not the weather (and don't even try to tell me that LA has a cool urban environment, it doesn't)

[joonhp]

Think about how happy you and your girlfriend will be after you get married, decide to buy a home and realize that your law school debt is very small because of your scholarship and in-state tuition.

[solidsnake]

Flame. international/human rights is an internet myth.

[Hopefullawstudent]

90K can buy you a nice wedding!!!

[KG_CalGuy]

Flame. international/human rights is an internet myth.

It's not so much a myth as a very small job market. Any maybe if you actually went on a firm's website, you would see that they have "public international law" practices, see Latham&Watkins http://www.lw.com/practices.aspx?page=p ... actice=221

[kittenmittons]

Flame. international/human rights is an internet myth.

It's not so much a myth as a very small job market. Any maybe if you actually went on a firm's website, you would see that they have "public international law" practices, see Latham&Watkins http://www.lw.com/practices.aspx?page=p ... actice=221

ENJOY LATHAM

[KG_CalGuy]

Yes, because I'm so arrogant to speculate that I was going to get a job at Latham & Watkins. My point was that you should understand the meaning of the word myth before you throw it out like an expert.

[finalaspects]

Columbia or NYU... both can land you a job in California anyways.

the main concern is your gf... if you think you'll eventually marry her then stay in CA... but then again if she was serious she might move out there for you.

[kittenmittons]

Yes, because I'm so arrogant to speculate that I was going to get a job at Latham & Watkins. My point was that you should understand the meaning of the word myth before you throw it out like an expert.

I'm flaming latttham not you.

Finalaspects has tcr, but CLS over NYU.

[nealric]

Columbia or NYU. UCLA is giving up a lot - more than the 60k would compensate for IMO.

I say if your relationship is that serious, she would either be fine with moving or long distance until it is possible to move. If your relationship can't handle a year of long distance, its probably not forever material anyways.

[solidsnake]

Did you really cite Latham? If you can't understand internet meme, you've got bigger problems on your hands, pal. All we need is another aspie fighting for human rights when they don't even have their finger on the pulse of our culture.

[clintonius]

Latham's description says that "The team is particularly engaged in advising clients on the resolution of disputes related to overseas investments." Every massive firm has this sort of practice, and it's finance, not international human rights. That field is possibly much smaller than you are aware.

At any rate, NYU's massive PI and government network would probably benefit you more than a CLS degree for those fields, but CLS is going to have the edge in private practice and clerkships (if I recall the ASW speech correctly, the dean of NYU has made it his goal for 25% of the class of 2013 to land clerkships, but who knows if that will actually happen).

[KG_CalGuy]

Latham's description says that "The team is particularly engaged in advising clients on the resolution of disputes related to overseas investments." Every massive firm has this sort of practice, and it's finance, not international human rights. That field is possibly much smaller than you are aware.

At any rate, NYU's massive PI and government network would probably benefit you more than a CLS degree for those fields, but CLS is going to have the edge in private practice and clerkships (if I recall the ASW speech correctly, the dean of NYU has made it his goal for 25% of the class of 2013 to land clerkships, but who knows if that will actually happen).

For the record, I didn't intend to cite Latham as an example of human rights law. I'm aware that the fields are entirely separate and that human rights law is a VERY limited field of employment that is extremely competitive. I cited Latham to show that "international law" was not a myth. And, as I said in my original post, I am not committed to any field because I don't see how it's possible to have any idea of what field I want to practice as a 0L

[clintonius]

Fair enough, and I do think there are lots of people who conflate "international law" and "international human rights law." There's a ton of work in the former, but it's going to be mostly cross-border M&A and that sort of thing. You wrote "international/human rights" in the OP, which probably led most people to believe you were talking about international human rights law. That is a very small, difficult nut to crack.

[glowhard]

Have you visited either NYU or CLS? They're pretty dramatically different in terms of "feel," but nearly identical in terms of opportunities, so IMO that's just a personal choice.

In terms of New York vs. UCLA: I don't think you'd be insane to pass up NYU and CLS for nearly 100k, but it really all depends on what you want from your career and law school. On one hand you're saying you want to live in SoCal and raise a family, and then you also say you want to be a SCOTUS clerk.... so depending on which one of those pulls you harder, you might have your decision made. In other words, if you want to be a top California lawyer with a fine clerkship under your belt, go to UCLA and work hard. If you want to spend the next ten years competing with the top 1% of the legal world for the top .1% of the jobs, go somewhere in NYC.

[KG_CalGuy]

Anybody's opinion change with a small award from CLS (25k over three years)?

[clintonius]

If it were me, I'd go to Columbia even without that scholarship. For you it's more complicated because of the girly-friend. CLS is going to carry serious weight wherever you go. NYU (where I'll likely be attending, btw) isn't going to translate to CA as well, I don't think. You're going to need to weigh prestige and opportunities like clerkships vs the benefits of staying local.