US NEWS Rankings 2011?

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tomhobbes
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby tomhobbes » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:06 am

PDaddy wrote:Wouldn't mind seeing this happen (but it won't):

1) Harvard Law School
2) Stanford Law School
3) University of Chicago Law School
4) NYU School of Law
5) Columbia Law School
6) Yale Law School


Why the Yale hate?

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DallasCowboy
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby DallasCowboy » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:07 am

The employment statistics are all that I care about at this point.

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Mattalones
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby Mattalones » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:09 am

DallasCowboy wrote:The employment statistics are all that I care about at this point.

+100

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PDaddy
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby PDaddy » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:14 am

plex wrote:The amount of ABA law schools go up from 199 to 209 starting next year, who thinks there will be a tier 5?


I don't know, but the perception of the qualities of tier-1 schools should change from "only the top-50 schools are worthy" (and to some top-30, while elitists say T14) to "the top-75 schools are really very good schools". That's the truth. It's just too bad the lazy employers won't do their own work and instead rely upon the schools (and by extension the rankings) to filter and stack the talent pool for them. We don't need new law schools, but we could use some closures and "replacements" (i.e. UCSD replaces Golden gate).

tomhobbes wrote:
PDaddy wrote:Wouldn't mind seeing this happen (but it won't):

1) Harvard Law School
2) Stanford Law School
3) University of Chicago Law School
4) NYU School of Law
5) Columbia Law School
6) Yale Law School


Why the Yale hate?


Yale benefits from metrics that have little meaning in the measurement of actual education and practice. Also, I disagree with the concept of a non-graded school. Stanford and Berkeley, which are also gradeless, contribute more practitioners. Yale is still an elite school, but it produces many academics who contribute more to research, teaching and theory. Ultimately, schools that do this are not as good as schools that can do the same while producing practitioners who can function in the real world.

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FunkyJD
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby FunkyJD » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:24 am

I have no earthly clue why this strain of thought that discounts UT Law in favor of UCLA exists. I'm sure I'll never understand.

Also, re: Dedman being dropped below Baylor: No.

Why did the rankings expand beyond the Top 25 to begin with? I'd like to see it go back to the old system. Here's the top 25. Rest of you are regional anyway. If the difference between 45 and 75 is effectively zero, what difference does it make aside from slick marketing? Hell, Chicago-Kent outplaces Utah and Colorado in the NLJ250.

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entrechatsix
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby entrechatsix » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:32 am

PDaddy wrote:Yale is still an elite school, but it produces many academics who contribute more to research, teaching and theory. Ultimately, schools that do this are not as good as schools that can do the same while producing practitioners who can function in the real world.


you cannot be serious

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Panther7
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby Panther7 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:38 am

PDaddy wrote:
plex wrote:The amount of ABA law schools go up from 199 to 209 starting next year, who thinks there will be a tier 5?


I don't know, but the perception of the qualities of tier-1 schools should change from "only the top-50 schools are worthy" (and to some top-30, while elitists say T14) to "the top-75 schools are really very good schools". That's the truth. It's just too bad the lazy employers won't do their own work and instead rely upon the schools (and by extension the rankings) to filter and stack the talent pool for them. We don't need new law schools, but we could use some closures and "replacements" (i.e. UCSD replaces Golden gate).

Yale benefits from metrics that have little meaning in the measurement of actual education and practice. Also, I disagree with the concept of a non-graded school. Stanford and Berkeley, which are also gradeless, contribute more practitioners. Yale is still an elite school, but it produces many academics who contribute more to research, teaching and theory. Ultimately, schools that do this are not as good as schools that can do the same while producing practitioners who can function in the real world.



You are either the biggest troll on this site or the dumbest poster on this site... I haven't figured out which yet.

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PDaddy
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby PDaddy » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:55 am

Panther7 wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
plex wrote:The amount of ABA law schools go up from 199 to 209 starting next year, who thinks there will be a tier 5?


I don't know, but the perception of the qualities of tier-1 schools should change from "only the top-50 schools are worthy" (and to some top-30, while elitists say T14) to "the top-75 schools are really very good schools". That's the truth. It's just too bad the lazy employers won't do their own work and instead rely upon the schools (and by extension the rankings) to filter and stack the talent pool for them. We don't need new law schools, but we could use some closures and "replacements" (i.e. UCSD replaces Golden gate).

Yale benefits from metrics that have little meaning in the measurement of actual education and practice. Also, I disagree with the concept of a non-graded school. Stanford and Berkeley, which are also gradeless, contribute more practitioners. Yale is still an elite school, but it produces many academics who contribute more to research, teaching and theory. Ultimately, schools that do this are not as good as schools that can do the same while producing practitioners who can function in the real world.



You are either the biggest troll on this site or the dumbest poster on this site... I haven't figured out which yet.


Am I the first person to suggest that Yale is not even a top-5 school? Not even close!!!! "Biggest troll"? "Dumbest poster"? Why...b/c I can think for myself? That makes a lot of sense. :roll: This isn't that serious. I like Harvard and Stanford much more than I like Yale. Nobody on this site knows wtf they are talking about half of the time when it comes to rankings, and that includes YOU, so slow your roll. I really can't tell you exactly why schools should be ranked the way I think they should be ranked. I just have preferences, like you do. I think USNWR sucks, even though my rankings largely resemble them.

For the most part, I am doing what many judges do when they receive surveys: rank schools I know little or nothing about! So, your vile should be directed at the judges whose arbitrary, out-of-the-ass ratings contribute to 40% of rankings (i.e., "reputation") that control your future, even though they are unqualified to do so. If you ask me, THAT is what is irresponsible about all of this.

While I am not drinking the Yale Kool Aid everybody else drinks (and I truly believe Chicago is underrated and underranked), I believe it is a very good law school. But if you ask me which graduates I would want to serve me, Yale would be further down the list than #6. The reason? The better your numbers, the worse your people skills. That's why the Yale lab rats wind up cloistered away from the real public. I don't hate on Yale, i just see it for what it is and isn't. And what it isn't is the top law school in the nation.

nuss3
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby nuss3 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:12 am

just a few points for those comparing UT to UCLA and GULC...

-UT's tuition is WAY cheaper, esp. for in-state ($27k, and however much you pay the first year is the most you'll ever pay for tuition)
-whoever favorably compared GULC's firm market to UT's is ignorant. GULC has to compete with yale, harvard, NYU, columbia, michigan, cornell, chicago, duke, northwestern, etc...whereas UT owns all of texas--and it's not like the neighboring states are overloaded with prestigious law schools, either. ucla has the same problem with berkeley and stanford (and in LA, they have to deal with USC), plus migrating east-coasters. texas doesn't have any top vault firms, but there are still dozens of huge firms that aren't shy about a $160k starting salary.
-there's more money flowing through texas than anywhere else in the country right now (cali has a bigger economy, but it's obviously going to hell in a handbasket). texas wasn't hit as hard by the recession as either new york or cali.
-austin is immeasurably better to live in than the DC area. austin has 6th street, legitimate culture, actual college sports, and is two hours away from three major cities (houston, dallas-fort worth, san antonio). the cost of living in austin is probably little more than half of what it is in nyc and los angeles.
-lastly, TEXAS HAS NO STATE INCOME TAX. add that to low COL, and $160k goes much farther in texas than in northeastern cities. $300k in houston will fetch a 4,000 square foot house in a safe neighborhood. $300k in L.A. buys you a shack.

all of this=better job prospects for UT law grads/more reason to move them up retarded ranking lists

edit: san antonio's actually only one hour away...it's late.
Last edited by nuss3 on Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Hattori Hanzo
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby Hattori Hanzo » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:13 am

PDaddy wrote:While I am not drinking the Yale Kool Aid everybody else drinks (and I truly believe Chicago is underrated and underranked), I believe it is a very good law school. But if you ask me which graduates I would want to serve me, Yale would be further down the list than #6. The reason? The better your numbers, the worse your people skills. That's why the Yale lab rats wind up cloistered away from the real public. I don't hate on Yale, i just see it for what it is and isn't. And what it isn't is the top law school in the nation.


You're narrowly focused on only one area (practice) in your ranking of schools. Of course you're entitled to your opinion on that matter but you don't even do a good job at presenting it. Do you have any statistics that show Yale grads make worse practitioners than Harvard or Stanford grads?

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Panther7
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby Panther7 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:43 am

PDaddy wrote:
Panther7 wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
plex wrote:The amount of ABA law schools go up from 199 to 209 starting next year, who thinks there will be a tier 5?


I don't know, but the perception of the qualities of tier-1 schools should change from "only the top-50 schools are worthy" (and to some top-30, while elitists say T14) to "the top-75 schools are really very good schools". That's the truth. It's just too bad the lazy employers won't do their own work and instead rely upon the schools (and by extension the rankings) to filter and stack the talent pool for them. We don't need new law schools, but we could use some closures and "replacements" (i.e. UCSD replaces Golden gate).

Yale benefits from metrics that have little meaning in the measurement of actual education and practice. Also, I disagree with the concept of a non-graded school. Stanford and Berkeley, which are also gradeless, contribute more practitioners. Yale is still an elite school, but it produces many academics who contribute more to research, teaching and theory. Ultimately, schools that do this are not as good as schools that can do the same while producing practitioners who can function in the real world.



You are either the biggest troll on this site or the dumbest poster on this site... I haven't figured out which yet.


Am I the first person to suggest that Yale is not even a top-5 school? Not even close!!!! "Biggest troll"? "Dumbest poster"? Why...b/c I can think for myself? That makes a lot of sense. :roll: This isn't that serious. I like Harvard and Stanford much more than I like Yale. Nobody on this site knows wtf they are talking about half of the time when it comes to rankings, and that includes YOU, so slow your roll. I really can't tell you exactly why schools should be ranked the way I think they should be ranked. I just have preferences, like you do. I think USNWR sucks, even though my rankings largely resemble them.

For the most part, I am doing what many judges do when they receive surveys: rank schools I know little or nothing about! So, your vile should be directed at the judges whose arbitrary, out-of-the-ass ratings contribute to 40% of rankings (i.e., "reputation") that control your future, even though they are unqualified to do so. If you ask me, THAT is what is irresponsible about all of this.

While I am not drinking the Yale Kool Aid everybody else drinks (and I truly believe Chicago is underrated and underranked), I believe it is a very good law school. But if you ask me which graduates I would want to serve me, Yale would be further down the list than #6. The reason? The better your numbers, the worse your people skills. That's why the Yale lab rats wind up cloistered away from the real public. I don't hate on Yale, i just see it for what it is and isn't. And what it isn't is the top law school in the nation.



I wasn't referring to a single post. Everytime I see something retarded posted on these forums, it always seems to have your name to the left of it.

twistedwrister
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby twistedwrister » Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:47 am

Hattori Hanzo wrote:
PDaddy wrote:While I am not drinking the Yale Kool Aid everybody else drinks (and I truly believe Chicago is underrated and underranked), I believe it is a very good law school. But if you ask me which graduates I would want to serve me, Yale would be further down the list than #6. The reason? The better your numbers, the worse your people skills. That's why the Yale lab rats wind up cloistered away from the real public. I don't hate on Yale, i just see it for what it is and isn't. And what it isn't is the top law school in the nation.


You're narrowly focused on only one area (practice) in your ranking of schools. Of course you're entitled to your opinion on that matter but you don't even do a good job at presenting it. Do you have any statistics that show Yale grads make worse practitioners than Harvard or Stanford grads?


Since you asked...

http://www.vault.com/wps/portal/usa/education/law-ranking?programtype=2954

VAULT'S TOP 25 LAW SCHOOL RANKINGS

Vault surveyed nearly 400 hiring partners, hiring committee members, associate interviewers and recruiting professionals across the country on which law schools best prepare their graduates to achieve in the firm environment. With 58% of law school graduates entering private practice, Vault's law school rankings fill an important gap with their unique emphasis on employability.

Vault surveyed only those people who directly assess the value of law school graduates in the real world once they enter the workforce- those individuals responsible for evaluating and hiring law school students. The respondents--who represent over 100 law firms-- were advised to consider the following factors in their rankings: research and writing skills; knowledge of legal doctrine; possession of other relevant knowledge (e.g., science for IP lawyers); and ability to manage a calendar and work with an assistant.

1 Stanford Law School
2 University of Michigan Law School
3 New York University School of Law
4 University of Virginia School of Law
5 University of Chicago Law School
6 Harvard Law School
7 Columbia Law School
8 UC Berkeley School of Law
9 Northwestern University School of Law
10 Yale Law School
11 Vanderbilt Law School
12 Duke University School of Law
13 Penn Law School
14 Maurer School of Law
15 Cornell Law School
16 University of Minnesota Law School
17 Georgetown University Law Center
18 UCLA School of Law
19 University of Iowa College of Law
20 George Washington University Law School
21 Boston University School of Law
22 University of Texas at Austin School of Law
23 University of North Carolina School of Law
24 Emory University School of Law
25 University of Wisconsin Law School

Just like U.S. News rankings, I wouldn't put too much stock in this one particular poll, but it does provide some support that Stanford and Harvard grads make better practitioners than Yale grads do (at least according to those who make hiring decisions).

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doinmybest
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby doinmybest » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:02 am

While I love the Vault rankings for this reason...

twistedwrister wrote:1 Stanford Law School
2 University of Michigan Law School
3 New York University School of Law
4 University of Virginia School of Law
5 University of Chicago Law School
6 Harvard Law School
7 Columbia Law School
8 UC Berkeley School of Law
9 Northwestern University School of Law
10 Yale Law School
11 Vanderbilt Law School
12 Duke University School of Law
13 Penn Law School
14 Maurer School of Law
15 Cornell Law School
16 University of Minnesota Law School
17 Georgetown University Law Center
18 UCLA School of Law
19 University of Iowa College of Law
20 George Washington University Law School
21 Boston University School of Law
22 University of Texas at Austin School of Law
23 University of North Carolina School of Law
24 Emory University School of Law
25 University of Wisconsin Law School




You know as well as I do that this data doesn't really prove or support this statement at all.

twistedwrister wrote:it does provide some support that Stanford and Harvard grads make better practitioners than Yale grads do (at least according to those who make hiring decisions).

twistedwrister
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby twistedwrister » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:45 am

doinmybest wrote:While I love the Vault rankings for this reason...

twistedwrister wrote:1 Stanford Law School
2 University of Michigan Law School
3 New York University School of Law
4 University of Virginia School of Law
5 University of Chicago Law School
6 Harvard Law School
7 Columbia Law School
8 UC Berkeley School of Law
9 Northwestern University School of Law
10 Yale Law School
11 Vanderbilt Law School
12 Duke University School of Law
13 Penn Law School
14 Maurer School of Law
15 Cornell Law School
16 University of Minnesota Law School
17 Georgetown University Law Center
18 UCLA School of Law
19 University of Iowa College of Law
20 George Washington University Law School
21 Boston University School of Law
22 University of Texas at Austin School of Law
23 University of North Carolina School of Law
24 Emory University School of Law
25 University of Wisconsin Law School




You know as well as I do that this data doesn't really prove or support this statement at all.

twistedwrister wrote:it does provide some support that Stanford and Harvard grads make better practitioners than Yale grads do (at least according to those who make hiring decisions).


Look, I'm not going to get drawn into some argument about this survey -- I really don't care either way. I qualified my original statement as much as possible, but I'll go ahead and restate the proposition in another way: According to survey of nearly 400 hiring partners, hiring committee members, associate interviewers and recruiting professionals across the country, Stanford and Harvard better "prepare their graduates to achieve in the firm environment" than Yale does, taking the following factors into account: "research and writing skills; knowledge of legal doctrine; possession of other relevant knowledge (e.g., science for IP lawyers); and ability to manage a calendar and work with an assistant."

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Borhas
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby Borhas » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:00 am

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... -scho.html

Vault, whose rankings of law firms by prestige attracts some interest, has now produced, via a largely obscure methodology, a ranking of law schools. The "top 25" is not as silly as the Cooley "top 25," but at least with Cooley one knows why the results are ridiculous, because the ranking method is transparent (and transparently absurd). The ordinal listing in Vault is equally absurd, but the rhyme-or-reason of the absurdity is harder to pin down given how little Vault tells us about the "method":


but the best part is the quotes that the raters left:

he results are even weirder when one looks at the representative comments from evaluators that Vault shares on its web site. Regarding #1 Stanford:

"Mixed bag, not always practical lawyers"

"Unprepared and uninterested in private practice; entitled"

Where is the love for #1? (Well, there's a little: "Every graduate I've encountered knows how to take an issue apart; great analytical skills.")

Are they happier with #4 Virginia? Not really:

"Maybe it's the law school's emphasis on softball and beer, but the lack of work ethic shows in recent grads."

Regarding #12 Duke:

"Graduates of this school are not prepared to practice law. There must be no practical training provided at all.

But it's not just Duke, it's even #5 Chicago:

"Law school education is too theoretical - would like to see lawyers with more 'practical' experience and application of the law"

And #10 Yale

"Weakness is lack of exposure to practical experience"

And #17 Georgetown:

"The lawyers I've worked with from this school were sloppy and unprepared."

"We've hired several lawyers from this school and they all have poor people skills and produce low-quality work."

Ouch. But wait, look what Vault reports someone saying about #2 Michigan:

"Overrated. Produces a lot of mediocre lawyers"

Ouch again! And a double put-down for #13 Penn:

"Like Columbia, students sometimes seem a little ungrounded"

And #22 Texas gets whacked too:

"Not impressed. Research skills not up to par."


many involving comparisons that seem vaguely left-handed. UCLA, we are told, is "The Fordham of the west coast." On Michigan: "For producing quality graduates, UM is on the heels of the top Ivies." On Minnesota: "One of the better state schools." On George Washington: "A law school on the rise, but not there yet." BU: "Solid; high 2nd tier." North Carolina: "Getting better." Vanderbilt: "Very strong at top of class, not quite as strong as very top tier schools below top of class." Wisconsin: "Surprisingly good candidates."

twistedwrister
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby twistedwrister » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:19 am

Like I said, don't put too much stock in any one survey, including the Vault survey. Also, please take what Brian Leiter says with a grain of salt.

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Spaceman Spiff
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby Spaceman Spiff » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:23 am

twistedwrister wrote:Like I said, don't put too much stock in any one survey, including the Vault survey. Also, please take what Brian Leiter says with a grain of salt.


I put exactly zero stock in a survey that puts Indiana within 4 spots of Yale.

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doinmybest
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby doinmybest » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:24 am

Borhas wrote:
he results are even weirder when one looks at the representative comments from evaluators that Vault shares on its web site. Regarding #1 Stanford:

"Mixed bag, not always practical lawyers"

"Unprepared and uninterested in private practice; entitled"

Where is the love for #1? (Well, there's a little: "Every graduate I've encountered knows how to take an issue apart; great analytical skills.")

Are they happier with #4 Virginia? Not really:

"Maybe it's the law school's emphasis on softball and beer, but the lack of work ethic shows in recent grads."

Regarding #12 Duke:

"Graduates of this school are not prepared to practice law. There must be no practical training provided at all.

But it's not just Duke, it's even #5 Chicago:

"Law school education is too theoretical - would like to see lawyers with more 'practical' experience and application of the law"

And #10 Yale

"Weakness is lack of exposure to practical experience"

And #17 Georgetown:

"The lawyers I've worked with from this school were sloppy and unprepared."

"We've hired several lawyers from this school and they all have poor people skills and produce low-quality work."

Ouch. But wait, look what Vault reports someone saying about #2 Michigan:

"Overrated. Produces a lot of mediocre lawyers"

Ouch again! And a double put-down for #13 Penn:

"Like Columbia, students sometimes seem a little ungrounded"

And #22 Texas gets whacked too:

"Not impressed. Research skills not up to par."


Haha when do Biglaw firms ever have anything good to say about their associates?

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holydonkey
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby holydonkey » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:05 am

So I live in DC. US News' headquarters is in DC. Anyone think the new rankings might be available at the headquarters early?

At organizations I've worked for, whenever we have a new publication, we always put out table copies in our office when the product comes back from the printer. Maybe US News does as well.

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84Sunbird2000
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby 84Sunbird2000 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:08 am

holydonkey wrote:So I live in DC. US News' headquarters is in DC. Anyone think the new rankings might be available at the headquarters early?

At organizations I've worked for, whenever we have a new publication, we always put out table copies in our office when the product comes back from the printer. Maybe US News does as well.


The only problem is that the physical copy of the College Guide comes out April 20, and the USNWR magazine summary of said guide comes out April 27. They are releasing the rankings online on April 15, so I'm somewhat doubtful about leaked print rankings.

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scribelaw
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby scribelaw » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:12 am

My (self-interested) guess:

1. Yale
2. Harvard
3. Stanford
4. Columbia
4. NYU
6. Chicago
7. Berkeley
8. Penn
8. Michigan
10. Virginia
10. Northwestern
10. Duke
13. Cornell
14. Georgetown

miamiman
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby miamiman » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:31 am

Borhas wrote:Quote:
the results are even weirder when one looks at the representative comments from evaluators that Vault shares on its web site. Regarding #1 Stanford:

"Mixed bag, not always practical lawyers"

"Unprepared and uninterested in private practice; entitled"

Where is the love for #1? (Well, there's a little: "Every graduate I've encountered knows how to take an issue apart; great analytical skills.")

Are they happier with #4 Virginia? Not really:

"Maybe it's the law school's emphasis on softball and beer, but the lack of work ethic shows in recent grads."

Regarding #12 Duke:

"Graduates of this school are not prepared to practice law. There must be no practical training provided at all.

But it's not just Duke, it's even #5 Chicago:

"Law school education is too theoretical - would like to see lawyers with more 'practical' experience and application of the law"

And #10 Yale

"Weakness is lack of exposure to practical experience"

And #17 Georgetown:

"The lawyers I've worked with from this school were sloppy and unprepared."

"We've hired several lawyers from this school and they all have poor people skills and produce low-quality work."

Ouch. But wait, look what Vault reports someone saying about #2 Michigan:

"Overrated. Produces a lot of mediocre lawyers"

Ouch again! And a double put-down for #13 Penn:

"Like Columbia, students sometimes seem a little ungrounded"

And #22 Texas gets whacked too:

"Not impressed. Research skills not up to par."


I'm inclined to believe these vault vignettes reflect the backgrounds of the people quoting them more than anything reflective of the school. At the big firm my mom works at, for example, the partners who graduated from the top-tier universities say that what they look for in associates are seriousness, abstract-oriented thinking, and an ability to argue both sides of a case. They say these qualities tend to be more concentrated among grads from the theory heavy schools (yale, chicago, etc). "we'll teach them the law; we can't teach them to think."

Conversely, partners who graduated from lower-tier schools note that they look for extroversion and amicability, coupled with the ability "hit the ground running". They note that grads from Chicago, for example, tend to "have their heads in a cloud", and look for ambiguity even when there is none.

So, no, I don't put any stock into these things, especially when they're ripped from context.

sumus romani
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby sumus romani » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:31 am

scribelaw wrote:My (self-interested) guess:

1. Yale
2. Harvard
3. Stanford
4. Columbia
4. NYU
6. Chicago
7. Berkeley
8. Penn
8. Michigan
10. Virginia
10. Northwestern
10. Duke
13. Cornell
14. Georgetown



This is very similar to the 2009 US news results. I believe that if three schools change by just one point each (and I don't mean one place each: rather, I mean one point on the 100 point scale), then you can get your results. I have to say, you are being a bit to realistic for this thread :wink: .

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rockchalk86
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby rockchalk86 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:23 am

Borhas wrote:http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leiter/2008/04/vaults-law-scho.html

Vault, whose rankings of law firms by prestige attracts some interest, has now produced, via a largely obscure methodology, a ranking of law schools. The "top 25" is not as silly as the Cooley "top 25," but at least with Cooley one knows why the results are ridiculous, because the ranking method is transparent (and transparently absurd). The ordinal listing in Vault is equally absurd, but the rhyme-or-reason of the absurdity is harder to pin down given how little Vault tells us about the "method":


but the best part is the quotes that the raters left:

he results are even weirder when one looks at the representative comments from evaluators that Vault shares on its web site. Regarding #1 Stanford:

"Mixed bag, not always practical lawyers"

"Unprepared and uninterested in private practice; entitled"

Where is the love for #1? (Well, there's a little: "Every graduate I've encountered knows how to take an issue apart; great analytical skills.")

Are they happier with #4 Virginia? Not really:

"Maybe it's the law school's emphasis on softball and beer, but the lack of work ethic shows in recent grads."

Regarding #12 Duke:

"Graduates of this school are not prepared to practice law. There must be no practical training provided at all.

But it's not just Duke, it's even #5 Chicago:

"Law school education is too theoretical - would like to see lawyers with more 'practical' experience and application of the law"

And #10 Yale

"Weakness is lack of exposure to practical experience"

And #17 Georgetown:

"The lawyers I've worked with from this school were sloppy and unprepared."

"We've hired several lawyers from this school and they all have poor people skills and produce low-quality work."

Ouch. But wait, look what Vault reports someone saying about #2 Michigan:

"Overrated. Produces a lot of mediocre lawyers"

Ouch again! And a double put-down for #13 Penn:

"Like Columbia, students sometimes seem a little ungrounded"

And #22 Texas gets whacked too:

"Not impressed. Research skills not up to par."


many involving comparisons that seem vaguely left-handed. UCLA, we are told, is "The Fordham of the west coast." On Michigan: "For producing quality graduates, UM is on the heels of the top Ivies." On Minnesota: "One of the better state schools." On George Washington: "A law school on the rise, but not there yet." BU: "Solid; high 2nd tier." North Carolina: "Getting better." Vanderbilt: "Very strong at top of class, not quite as strong as very top tier schools below top of class." Wisconsin: "Surprisingly good candidates."


Moral of the story: every school sucks in some way?





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