US NEWS Rankings 2011?

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Dignan
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby Dignan » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:55 pm

sibley wrote:
Dignan wrote:Wow. The USNWR editors advise people to keep the rankings in perspective. It looks like they need to follow their own advice.


eh it's just an ad

You're right. I hadn't noticed that.

nymario
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby nymario » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:00 pm


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Bustang
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby Bustang » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:11 pm

ASU to #38? lawl.

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Kiersten1985
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby Kiersten1985 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:17 pm

nymario wrote:http://www.flickr.com/photos/49285543@N07/

just saying.


is there any reason to think this isn't legit?

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Dignan
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby Dignan » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:19 pm

Kiersten1985 wrote:
nymario wrote:http://www.flickr.com/photos/49285543@N07/

just saying.


is there any reason to think this isn't legit?

If it's not legit, then someone went through a tremendous amount of trouble.

de5igual
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby de5igual » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:01 pm

Dignan wrote:
Kiersten1985 wrote:
nymario wrote:http://www.flickr.com/photos/49285543@N07/

just saying.


is there any reason to think this isn't legit?

If it's not legit, then someone went through a tremendous amount of trouble.


which would not surprise me one bit

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Dignan
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby Dignan » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:12 pm

f0bolous wrote:
Dignan wrote:
Kiersten1985 wrote:
nymario wrote:http://www.flickr.com/photos/49285543@N07/

just saying.


is there any reason to think this isn't legit?

If it's not legit, then someone went through a tremendous amount of trouble.


which would not surprise me one bit

It would surprise me. I mean, look at those pages. Someone would have to fake the entire rankings--including Tier 3/4 and specialty rankings. If this is fake, then the faker did an amazing job: spot check any school and you'll see that little details--like bar passage rate--are correct. This would have taken someone days of research and work. I'd bet a lot of money that these are real.

sibley
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby sibley » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:17 pm

thanks to jeff for posting this on his facebook and therefore keeping me in the loop. jeff... which one are you???

empire84
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby empire84 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:23 pm

Dignan wrote:
f0bolous wrote:
Kiersten1985 wrote:
nymario wrote:http://www.flickr.com/photos/49285543@N07/

just saying.


is there any reason to think this isn't legit?


which would not surprise me one bit

It would surprise me. I mean, look at those pages. Someone would have to fake the entire rankings--including Tier 3/4 and specialty rankings. If this is fake, then the faker did an amazing job: spot check any school and you'll see that little details--like bar passage rate--are correct. This would have taken someone days of research and work. I'd bet a lot of money that these are real.


+1

Highlights for whomever:
Top 14:
+Chicago overtakes #5 spot from NYU
+Virginia (10), Duke (11), Northwestern (11)

Tier 1:
+GWU moves from 28 to 20
+UC-Davis moves from 35 to 28
+Georgia moves form 35 to 28
+Wisconsin moves form 35 to 28
+ASU from 55 to 38
+Boulder from 45 to 38
-BC moves from 26 to 28
-Fordham moves from 30 to 34
-U Washington moves from 30 to 34
-IU Bloomington moves from 23 to 27
-Washington & Lee from 30 to 34
-Alabama from 30 to 38
-Hastings from 39 to 42
-American from 45 to 48
-Maryland from 43 to 48
-Cardozo from 49 to 52

Obviously a bunch of other small changes as well. That bump by ASU is pretty crazy. Also surprised Fordham continues to fall.
Last edited by empire84 on Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jrugg88
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby Jrugg88 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:27 pm

Correction: Duke and Northwestern are tied for 11th.

Also, Fordham continues to fall because USNWR started including the night school last year.

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Borhas
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby Borhas » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:29 pm

my law school went down in rankings thus this list lacks all credibility

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quetzalcoatl
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby quetzalcoatl » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:33 pm

Actually empire, Chicago went to #5, not #4

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klussy
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby klussy » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:38 pm

didn't realize a plurality of students at American take the NY bar

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blackacre
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby blackacre » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:24 pm

nymario wrote:http://www.flickr.com/photos/49285543@N07/

just saying.


can someone update another picture here?

theantiscalia
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby theantiscalia » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:28 pm

Brian Leiter is calling these fakes... he's basing that on Duke having 100% employment at graduation... I can't find the images any more to confirm, but does anybody remember that?

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Dignan
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby Dignan » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:33 pm

theantiscalia wrote:Brian Leiter is calling these fakes... he's basing that on Duke having 100% employment at graduation... I can't find the images any more to confirm, but does anybody remember that?

Yes, I remember that. Sadly, I think that the only faking going on was by Duke itself. (And, to be fair, it wasn't just Duke. Most T30 law schools were claiming a 95%+ employment rate at graduation.) Those leaked rankings were real.

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mikehoe
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby mikehoe » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:34 pm


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84Sunbird2000
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby 84Sunbird2000 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:37 pm

Yeah - these stats look very weird for employment. Emory reported (on their website) 84.04% employed after 9 months, and they have over 95% listed on the USNews site. PLus, they had a higher employed at graduation on that list than they did after 9 months.

I still assume that this is real, though.

getmetolawschool
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby getmetolawschool » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:43 pm

They're real! I bought them yesterday at a newsstand in NYC.

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sanpiero
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby sanpiero » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:44 pm

Bustang wrote:ASU to #38? lawl.


What portion of the data are you suggesting ASU has manipulated? Since the other factors seem highly unlikely, you must be suggesting they've manipulated employment numbers (% employed at and 9 months after graduation). Is it really that hard to accept that ASU had employment stats close to those of OSU, UW, Utah, UGA, and BYU? I think not. Remember, ASU has small class sizes (~180) and a very strong alumni base in the PHX area, not to mention it is the best law school in the 5th largest metro area in the US. It's also useful to remember these stats are for the class of 2008, a large portion of which had job offers before the economy tanked, and employment stats include students employed in non-legal jobs (I think).

EDIT: grammar
Last edited by sanpiero on Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

de5igual
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby de5igual » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:44 pm

84Sunbird2000 wrote:Yeah - these stats look very weird for employment. Emory reported (on their website) 84.04% employed after 9 months, and they have over 95% listed on the USNews site. PLus, they had a higher employed at graduation on that list than they did after 9 months.

I still assume that this is real, though.


i haven't checked emory's website, but is it because the USNWR is using class of 08 data while emory's website is using class of 09?

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84Sunbird2000
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby 84Sunbird2000 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:46 pm

f0bolous wrote:
84Sunbird2000 wrote:Yeah - these stats look very weird for employment. Emory reported (on their website) 84.04% employed after 9 months, and they have over 95% listed on the USNews site. PLus, they had a higher employed at graduation on that list than they did after 9 months.

I still assume that this is real, though.


i haven't checked emory's website, but is it because the USNWR is using class of 08 data while emory's website is using class of 09?


I thought that, but Emory's website also lists 2008, which had 88.8% employed at graduation. Thus, still suspicious.

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sanpiero
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby sanpiero » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:53 pm

From US News, on their methodology:

"Graduates who are working or pursuing graduate degrees are considered employed."

and

"Those who are unemployed and not seeking jobs are excluded from the calculations and are not counted as unemployed."

Maybe this methodology differs from that which Emory used in reporting the cited figures on its site?

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PDaddy
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby PDaddy » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:55 pm

84Sunbird2000 wrote:Yeah - these stats look very weird for employment. Emory reported (on their website) 84.04% employed after 9 months, and they have over 95% listed on the USNews site. PLus, they had a higher employed at graduation on that list than they did after 9 months.

I still assume that this is real, though.


The more I think about it, the more I know that it would have been quite easy to fake these rankings. I don't think it would be hard at all to fake the specialty rankings...just put is schools that have made the rankings before and slightly reorder them. To arrive at the rankings, in general, all you would have to do is use previously released stats and possibly fudge them a bit.

Rankings, law applications and deposits seem to be a huge scam, and we are the suckers who keep falling for it. It's no accident that most schools' first deposit deadlines are right at the rankings release date...so students don't get much time to think about their decisions, or maybe put down multiple deposits. They know students put much weight into the rankings.

Schools have two excuses for keeping the April 15 deadline: moving it up would give them less time to evaluate many applicants, and moving them back would give them even more work to do over the summer...with fewer commits.

WhatTheLawSchool
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Re: US NEWS Rankings 2011?

Postby WhatTheLawSchool » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:57 pm

klussy wrote:didn't realize a plurality of students at American take the NY bar



Oh... very good point. That's suspect isn't it?

EDIT: Or at least really weird. Wonder why that is?




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