Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

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darknightbegins
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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby darknightbegins » Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:59 pm

HOPPER4213 wrote:Go to UH without a doubt. Tech is a tier 3-4 law school that is trumped by an in state school in both of the major legal markets in the state in Houston and Dallas. SMU and UH own their respective markets, and with this current economy you may be getting a free education that results in searching for employment for the next two years.

Of course, the top 3-5% of students in a tier 3-4 school will have access to some good job offers, but the vast majority will be pushed to the side for students at a more reputable school. UT, SMU, and UH are the three best schools in the state with UT being the obvious number one. If I had a chance to go to one of these schools I would take it regardless of price.

Someone on here says that UH isnt worth sticker? Its rated as one of the top bang for your buck schools in the country, as it has low tuition and great placement in big law for a non T25. You will regret not taking the best school in the long run regardless of debt incurred.

In this economy, you would be nuts to go to any tier 3-4 law school and have high expectations after graduation. The only thing crazier would be to turn down a tier one to do it. Take UH, dont listen to anyone who thinks that Tech places well in Dallas/Houston. They may place, but def not well.


The OP does have kids. If he could go to Tech for free then it may be worth looking at. I doubt he would land a BigLaw job (most of us won't) but the prospect of coming out debt free when you already have a family sure could be tempting.

However, usually I would agree with you. In life many times you get what you pay for.

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b.gump81
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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby b.gump81 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:20 pm

Esc wrote:
b.gump81 wrote:
firstly, if you read my other posts, you'll see i said UH was the better choice for biglaw

with my jones day post, i was just demonstrating that Tech has just as much reach as UH outside of Houston. Ofcourse, UH is going to have better representation in Houston. I would be disturbed if it didnt, but the same goes for Texas Tech, which is going to have the same type of hold on West Texas in comparison to UH. keep in mind, these schools are about 500 miles apart from each other.



There are no large legal markets in West Texas. Your argument has no merit.


you're misunderstanding my argument

again, I was not referring to biglaw...i was just reiterating that a school is going to have more representation in its immediate surrounding area...hence houston having more representation in houston...smu more in dallas...

but the West Texas region is itself a legal market that is primarily served by Texas Tech...West Texas has tons of small and medium law firms, government offices, PI opportunities, wind energy and alternative energy firms, etc...and when compared to placement outside of their surrounding markets...UH and tech are comparable

HOPPER4213 wrote:Go to UH without a doubt. Tech is a tier 3-4 law school that is trumped by an in state school in both of the major legal markets in the state in Houston and Dallas. SMU and UH own their respective markets, and with this current economy you may be getting a free education that results in searching for employment for the next two years.

Of course, the top 3-5% of students in a tier 3-4 school will have access to some good job offers, but the vast majority will be pushed to the side for students at a more reputable school. UT, SMU, and UH are the three best schools in the state with UT being the obvious number one. If I had a chance to go to one of these schools I would take it regardless of price.

Someone on here says that UH isnt worth sticker? Its rated as one of the top bang for your buck schools in the country, as it has low tuition and great placement in big law for a non T25. You will regret not taking the best school in the long run regardless of debt incurred.

In this economy, you would be nuts to go to any tier 3-4 law school and have high expectations after graduation. The only thing crazier would be to turn down a tier one to do it. Take UH, dont listen to anyone who thinks that Tech places well in Dallas/Houston. They may place, but def not well.


I would love to see where it says UH has been ranked as a "bang for your buck" school, especially with their tuition increase to private school levels

as for tech being published as a ranked "bang for your buck" school
--LinkRemoved--

tech is ranked 19th with UH being 36th (keep in mind this was before their tuition increase from $17,000 to $27,000)...i wonder where UH would rank now?

in years past Tech has been ranked as high as ninth by this publication

next, tech is not a tier 3-4...it is a tier 3...and if you look at admission numbers, it is one of the best tier 3 schools in the nation

finally, i would argue that in this economy, it would be more prudent to take the scholarship and limit debt...it just makes sense to me that when money is tight you limit your expenses...not bank on the idea that ~100,000 in debt will be counteracted when i land a big law job, if and when i actually do

ofcourse, i'll say it again for the about 6th time or so...

if the op wants biglaw, go to UH
for anything else, go to tech

i would love to see some arguments that dont revolve around biglaw and lubbock

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darknightbegins
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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby darknightbegins » Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:26 pm

But lubbock is just so bad, it is difficult to ignore.

YEM
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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby YEM » Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:33 am

darknightbegins wrote:But lubbock is just so bad, it is difficult to ignore.


ATTN: pro-Lubbock trolling ahead.

...ahem... Lubbock has the most legitimately spicy Thai food in Texas. As I recall, the Volcano Soup at Thai Pepper is the bees knees.

Not a good enough reason not to pay retail at UofH - with Houston having its own very vibrant Asian community - but I'm just saying, there are worse places to be than Lubbock, especially if you've got kids, no social life, no ambition and enjoy flat land and fierce wind.

Housing is also extremely cheap in the hometown of Waylon Jennings and Buddy Holly. That's not nothing, right?


...self censure for incoherence...

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darknightbegins
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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby darknightbegins » Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:58 am

YEM wrote:
darknightbegins wrote:But lubbock is just so bad, it is difficult to ignore.


ATTN: pro-Lubbock trolling ahead.

...ahem... Lubbock has the most legitimately spicy Thai food in Texas. As I recall, the Volcano Soup at Thai Pepper is the bees knees.

Not a good enough reason not to pay retail at UofH - with Houston having its own very vibrant Asian community - but I'm just saying, there are worse places to be than Lubbock, especially if you've got kids, no social life, no ambition and enjoy flat land and fierce wind.

Housing is also extremely cheap in the hometown of Waylon Jennings and Buddy Holly. That's not nothing, right?


...self censure for incoherence...


Good thing it isn't a dry county anymore, if I had to live in Lubbock I'd be a raging alcoholic. And yes, this is Anti-Lubbock trolling.

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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby Aqualibrium » Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:51 pm

still baffled at the "go to UH for Big Law" comments...

The number of students that get Big Law at UH per year is probably somewhere in the 20's (students, not percent); the number that get big law from tech is probably in the 10's. Either way OP has too kick ass for any shot

Is 100k worth the "security" of only having to be one of the 28 best students at a school as opposed to being one of the 12 best?
Last edited by Aqualibrium on Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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0 and 16
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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby 0 and 16 » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:57 pm

Going by the data http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf, class size is 313. 313*.182=57.

So 57 students from each class get big law, not 28. Don't know how much it affects your argument. I was just correcting your numbers.

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ggocat
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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby ggocat » Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:11 pm

You have two decent options. I don't think there is a "correct" decision here. There will be a tradeoff no matter what you select. Going to UH will make more employers attracted to you. Going to Tech (and lessening your debt) will make more employers attractive to you.

UH will likely offer better immediate employment prospects; I wouldn't characterize the difference as "slight" or "significant," as seems to be the debate in this thread.

I would personally opt for less debt. I made a similar decision three years ago and am happy with the result (although the ranking difference was greater, the biglaw placement stats were similar).

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darknightbegins
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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby darknightbegins » Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:20 pm

hombredulce wrote:still baffled at the "go to UH for Big Law" comments...

The number of students that get Big Law at UH per year is probably less somewhere in the 20's (students, not percent); the number that get big law from tech is probably in the 10's. Either way OP has too kick ass for any shot

Is 100k worth the "security" of only having to be one of the 28 best students at a school as opposed to being one of the 12 best?



It is worth not living in Lubbock.

Aqualibrium
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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby Aqualibrium » Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:47 pm

0 and 16 wrote:Going by the data http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf, class size is 313. 313*.182=57.

So 57 students from each class get big law, not 28. Don't know how much it affects your argument. I was just correcting your numbers.



Changes things quite, but also not so much. My earlier comparison is probably the difference between top 10% and top 15%. With the numbers you quoted, the difference is top 10% vs. top 20%.

20 is a lot easier than 10 or 15 for sure, but they are both damn hard. It's still a difficult decision...

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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby Lucidity » Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:11 am

I'm going to reiterate what a lot of people have already said and try and summarize the information and try to be as impartial as possible in my recommendation. All else equal, UH is > than Texas Tech. I doubt anyone on either side of the argument will attempt to argue otherwise.

Texas Tech, although not a great school, is still a very well respected school inside Texas. All of west Texas is dominated by Tech and they DO have some reach in the Dallas Fort Worth metroplex. Tuition is also extremely affordable as is standard of living. The op also states that he has a free ride, so his expenses should barely register if he goes to Tech. The major drawbacks to Tech are geographical. Bring up whatever issues you want, dry county, high county std rate, flat lands, crappy smell from the cattle, etc, bottom line is it's not the most exciting place to live in.

UH is a much more respected school. It dominates Houston, which has one of, if not the largest legal market in the state. It is a tier 1 school with a nationally ranked IP and Health Law program. However, like Tech UH is also a regional school. One of the main advantages that UH had in the past has been their low tuition rate. It was because of this that UH was able to claim their "bang for the buck" value school credentials. Now, if what i hear is correct and they have raised their tuition to 27k a year (which rivals private tuition) i don't see how they can claim this title anymore. Standard of living at UH is also extremely questionable. In my research, EVERYONE i talk to tell me horror stories of the positioning of UH in down town Houston. The area is simply put, extremely unsafe. Muggings and attempted break ins are common. The campus is also quite old and dilapidated.

It all boils down to this:

The law school experience: Depends on the person, but i consider a plain and boring locale, although not ideal, to trump a shady and dangerous locale where my safety can be in question. Of course, away from the campus itself Houston offers a wide variety of enjoyments. This is extremely subjective and up to each individual.

The Worth of the Degree: Clearly a UH JD is > than a TT JD. UH grads will have a much easier time in Houston and although both schools have low Big Law placement, UH has a slight edge. Both are clearly outclassed by UT, both are likely to be limited in Texas (which isn't a bad thing by any stretch, considering the strength of the Texas economy).

Cost Benefit of the degree: This, i think is where the discussion clearly puts Tech as the winner. I hear so many people declare cavalierly that 100k debt ~ vs practically zero debt as a trivial matter. I can't fathom such a reckless attitude and when i hear it i can't help but think people are just talking out of their rear ends without really putting in the required contemplation of what this actually means. A 6 figure debt will most likely take decades to pay off and will be a burden that you lug with you for a significant portion of your life. It is not something to take lightly, especially considering the recent black eyes that the law profession has recently received. Never underestimate debt. Advice along the lines of "you're entitled to be 100k in the hole" just because hes going to law school is extremely irresponsible, especially when he has another option that still gives him a competitive degree for free.

My advice, unless you have a passion to do IP, Health Law, or really really want to practice in Houston, go to Tech. The slightly extra prestige and because-its-not-lubbock isn't worth 100k and chance of getting mugged on your way to class.

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darknightbegins
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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby darknightbegins » Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:50 am

It takes money to make money and you get what you pay for are terms that come to mind when I think about law school. Hell I don't want 6 figure debt and because of the type of law I am interested in I am willing to go to a somewhat lower ranked school to avoid 100K debt. However Houston is a Tier 1 school and Tech is a TTT school in a state with already good law schools. 100K debt may not take decades to pay off. We don't know what kind of cash the OP's wife has or how many kids he has. If he had 100K coming out he could always go the IBR route if this was really an issue.

If OP was single I would say don't worry so much about 100K in the hole. Coming out of Houston you probably could be looking at a salary starting around 50-70K. It wouldn't take "decades" to pay back 100K if you are looking at a starting salary at that range. Sure you might have to live lean for the first few years, but (hopefully) your salary should go up as you get older. However, the OP does have kids which makes things more difficult.

I am a selfish only child, however, if I had a family I would likely go the safer route and go with Tech. Got to put your family first in a situation like this. Coming out of Tech with no debt could be close to a sure thing, landing a good job necessarily isn't. If you are young and single I think the reward of Houston outweighs the risk, but if you have a family you should be a bit more risk adverse.

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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby hotdog123 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:00 am

Lucidity wrote:The area is simply put, extremely unsafe. Muggings and attempted break ins are common.


Lucidity wrote:The slightly extra prestige and because-its-not-lubbock isn't worth 100k and chance of getting mugged on your way to class.


Mmm, tasty misinformation.

U of H is actually the safest campus in the state with the lowest campus crime rate per capita between schools like UT, A&M, Baylor, SMU, & TTU.

Especially the law school, which is furthest removed from the ward of any part of campus.

Sure the neighborhood surrounding it isn't exactly paradise, but if you find yourself walking down the street there at 2AM, then that's your own fault.

Everything else you said is pretty much spot on, though.

I didn't notice that the OP had a family already. That's a game changer. Obviously he needs to ask himself if he wants to raise his family in Houston or West Texas. (Not DFW, cause chances are against that happening)

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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby leraa6587 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:23 am

.
Last edited by leraa6587 on Mon May 03, 2010 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby RSN_M3 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:36 am

DonnyMost wrote:
Lucidity wrote:The area is simply put, extremely unsafe. Muggings and attempted break ins are common.


Lucidity wrote:The slightly extra prestige and because-its-not-lubbock isn't worth 100k and chance of getting mugged on your way to class.


Mmm, tasty misinformation.

U of H is actually the safest campus in the state with the lowest campus crime rate per capita between schools like UT, A&M, Baylor, SMU, & TTU.

Especially the law school, which is furthest removed from the ward of any part of campus.

Sure the neighborhood surrounding it isn't exactly paradise, but if you find yourself walking down the street there at 2AM, then that's your own fault.

Everything else you said is pretty much spot on, though.

I didn't notice that the OP had a family already. That's a game changer. Obviously he needs to ask himself if he wants to raise his family in Houston or West Texas. (Not DFW, cause chances are against that happening)


You have blinders on. UH is not a safe campus by any means and the surrounding area is not "isn't exactly a paradise", it's downright shit. You couldn't pay me to walk around campus or around it in any direction after dark. Granted, the campus itself has become safer and prettier in recent years, but it's still pretty crappy. I remember taking the LSAT at UH, and some girl walking behind me caught the attention of the guys sitting outside the student center. "Hey gurl", "hey baby you wanna come chill with us?". :roll: Didn't experience any of that at Rice, St. Thomas or UT.

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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby HBK » Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:45 am

In my experience, Texas Tech had some of the hottest, dumbest, loosest, fake breastiest UG women I've ever met.

So, you have that going for you if you decide to go there.

/didn't go to TT
//that was also several years ago, don't know if that's changed

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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby hotdog123 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:50 am

RSN_M3 wrote:
DonnyMost wrote:
Lucidity wrote:The area is simply put, extremely unsafe. Muggings and attempted break ins are common.


Lucidity wrote:The slightly extra prestige and because-its-not-lubbock isn't worth 100k and chance of getting mugged on your way to class.


Mmm, tasty misinformation.

U of H is actually the safest campus in the state with the lowest campus crime rate per capita between schools like UT, A&M, Baylor, SMU, & TTU.

Especially the law school, which is furthest removed from the ward of any part of campus.

Sure the neighborhood surrounding it isn't exactly paradise, but if you find yourself walking down the street there at 2AM, then that's your own fault.

Everything else you said is pretty much spot on, though.

I didn't notice that the OP had a family already. That's a game changer. Obviously he needs to ask himself if he wants to raise his family in Houston or West Texas. (Not DFW, cause chances are against that happening)


You have blinders on. UH is not a safe campus by any means and the surrounding area is not "isn't exactly a paradise", it's downright shit. You couldn't pay me to walk around campus or around it in any direction after dark. Granted, the campus itself has become safer and prettier in recent years, but it's still pretty crappy. I remember taking the LSAT at UH, and some girl walking behind me caught the attention of the guys sitting outside the student center. "Hey gurl", "hey baby you wanna come chill with us?". :roll: Didn't experience any of that at Rice, St. Thomas or UT.


No, I don't have blinders on. I'll be the first to admit UH's campus leaves a lot to be desired, and the surrounding neighborhood is completely wrecked.

But look it up, UH has the lowest campus crime rate of all the "big" schools in Texas. (I think SMU might be tied with them, not counting the smaller schools like Rice, though).

And, if you think getting hit on implies "unsafe", then well, I'd argue you're the one with a messed up perspective here.

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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby HBK » Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:53 am

DonnyMost wrote:And, if you think getting hit on implies "unsafe", then well, I'd argue you're the one with a messed up perspective here.


They should have offered her some of their OE to loosen the nerves.

/spent too much time in the third ward

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hotdog123
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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby hotdog123 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:56 am

HBK wrote:
DonnyMost wrote:And, if you think getting hit on implies "unsafe", then well, I'd argue you're the one with a messed up perspective here.


They should have offered her some of their OE to loosen the nerves.

/spent too much time in the third ward


A little Olde English before the LSAT is the KEY to success.

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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby HBK » Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:06 am

My favorite third ward story:

When I was a senior in high school and the summer afterwards, some of my friends were renting a house in the third ward. They went to UH and a three bedroom in the Tre was $450- total. I ended up spending a lot of time there.

Anyway, there was this crackwhore we would see all the time. She would come by and offer her services for money or booze. We're all sitting out on the porch late one night and she emerges from this abandoned church-turned crackhouse across the street. She is screaming "I told you not to touch my sister, I told you! Imma come back and burn this mutha fucka down."

We all went to bed, assuming the crazy crackwhore was just being a crazy crackwhore. Until about 5:30, when we heard the sirens. That crazy bitch burned that mutha fucka down. We never saw her again after that. It was a surreal experience seeing a house of God- turned crackhouse- in flames... and also I was still drunk.

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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby FunkyJD » Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:09 am

That's how the driving the merchants out of the temple story in the Gospels would sound if it were retold by Quentin Tarantino. :lol:

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hotdog123
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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby hotdog123 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:11 am

FunkyJD wrote:That's how the driving the merchants out of the temple story in the Gospels would sound if it were retold by Quentin Tarantino. :lol:


If only they could all come together and break bread over some Frenchy's... the chicken Jesus would eat.

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kalvano
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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby kalvano » Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:30 am

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

Are people really arguing that Texas Tech is a good place to go to law school?


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby RSN_M3 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:32 am

DonnyMost wrote:
RSN_M3 wrote:
DonnyMost wrote:
Lucidity wrote:The area is simply put, extremely unsafe. Muggings and attempted break ins are common.


Lucidity wrote:The slightly extra prestige and because-its-not-lubbock isn't worth 100k and chance of getting mugged on your way to class.


Mmm, tasty misinformation.

U of H is actually the safest campus in the state with the lowest campus crime rate per capita between schools like UT, A&M, Baylor, SMU, & TTU.

Especially the law school, which is furthest removed from the ward of any part of campus.

Sure the neighborhood surrounding it isn't exactly paradise, but if you find yourself walking down the street there at 2AM, then that's your own fault.

Everything else you said is pretty much spot on, though.

I didn't notice that the OP had a family already. That's a game changer. Obviously he needs to ask himself if he wants to raise his family in Houston or West Texas. (Not DFW, cause chances are against that happening)


You have blinders on. UH is not a safe campus by any means and the surrounding area is not "isn't exactly a paradise", it's downright shit. You couldn't pay me to walk around campus or around it in any direction after dark. Granted, the campus itself has become safer and prettier in recent years, but it's still pretty crappy. I remember taking the LSAT at UH, and some girl walking behind me caught the attention of the guys sitting outside the student center. "Hey gurl", "hey baby you wanna come chill with us?". :roll: Didn't experience any of that at Rice, St. Thomas or UT.


No, I don't have blinders on. I'll be the first to admit UH's campus leaves a lot to be desired, and the surrounding neighborhood is completely wrecked.

But look it up, UH has the lowest campus crime rate of all the "big" schools in Texas. (I think SMU might be tied with them, not counting the smaller schools like Rice, though).

And, if you think getting hit on implies "unsafe", then well, I'd argue you're the one with a messed up perspective here.


No being hit on, literally stalked. Then there was that case last year when a student who fell asleep studying in a classroom after hours only to find a guy masturbating in front of her when she awoke. Statistics can be manipulated to show anything, and I suspect that's the case when it comes to UH and safety. Other than its reputation, the school and the surrounding area leaves much to be desired. Then again, reputation is what's key so if UH let me in, everything else would only be a second consideration.

In the interest of full disclosure, UH waitlisted me some time back, but fortunately Tulane and Wake let me in a short time later.

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Re: Dilemma between Texas Tech and University of Houston

Postby Lucidity » Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:12 am

DonnyMost wrote:
Lucidity wrote:The area is simply put, extremely unsafe. Muggings and attempted break ins are common.


Lucidity wrote:The slightly extra prestige and because-its-not-lubbock isn't worth 100k and chance of getting mugged on your way to class.


Mmm, tasty misinformation.

U of H is actually the safest campus in the state with the lowest campus crime rate per capita between schools like UT, A&M, Baylor, SMU, & TTU.

Especially the law school, which is furthest removed from the ward of any part of campus.

Sure the neighborhood surrounding it isn't exactly paradise, but if you find yourself walking down the street there at 2AM, then that's your own fault.

Everything else you said is pretty much spot on, though.

I didn't notice that the OP had a family already. That's a game changer. Obviously he needs to ask himself if he wants to raise his family in Houston or West Texas. (Not DFW, cause chances are against that happening)


I find that statistics, although useful, hardly are EVER detailed enough to make anyone fully informed. Anyone with a little creativity can fudge the numbers to their liking. Average 1st year lawyer salary anyone ? Houston was one of the schools i was seriously considering, and my information comes from first hand experience from people who actually went and graduated there told me. They all like and spoke highly of UH, but no one downplays the third ward and the scum that lives in that area, and all acknowledge the palpable danger. I hear a lot of harrowing stories of what goes on there. One of which included a girl that was ignorant enough to live near campus. Every week she had people pounding on the doors of her apartment trying to break in.

If he wants emphasis on having a good time while hes in law school and doesn't mind the debt, then by all means go to UH. Houston has tons of stuff that can keep him busy, just don't live anywhere near campus and he should be fine. But from the information he has given us, (debt adverse, a family to worry about) i think he would be foolish to reject a free ride from tech.




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