Fordham, Cardozo, and NY Schools other than NYU or Columbia

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Steve Zissou
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Re: Fordham, Cardozo, and NY Schools other than NYU or Columbia

Postby Steve Zissou » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:52 am

justdoit2410 wrote:I am curious about these two schools as well. You say all things being equal one should go to Fordham over Cardozo. I was offered full tuition no strings at Cardozo. I was also accepted to Fordham PT but I would have to pay sticker. In this situation should Cardozo win out, or is Fordham still the better choice? Sorry for the ramble.


Go to Cardozo. There are lots of us on the waitlist that want Fordham at any price.

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ZXCVBNM
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Re: Fordham, Cardozo, and NY Schools other than NYU or Columbia

Postby ZXCVBNM » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:02 pm

1) If you want BigLaw then you have to go to Fordham PT over Cardozo with scholly. Still realize that you'll have to finish in the top 25% (at least, in this economy) to have a shot a BigLaw.
2) If you are not interested in BigLaw and have a big scholly at Cardozo then I would seriously consider it. I don't think Fordham has a big advantage over Dozo when it comes to other jobs and in this economy less debt is much better.
3) Dozo is definitely a solid school and may be on the rise, but don't kid yourself, Fordham is working day and night to climb into the low twenties. Their numbers are going up as we speak and I wouldn't be surprised to see them solidly in the top 25 this year or next.

It really all depends on what you want. You want biglaw and are confident you can do well then definitely go for fordham. If not, maybe its better to take the scholarship.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Fordham, Cardozo, and NY Schools other than NYU or Columbia

Postby OperaSoprano » Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:03 am

ZXCVBNM wrote:1) If you want BigLaw then you have to go to Fordham PT over Cardozo with scholly. Still realize that you'll have to finish in the top 25% (at least, in this economy) to have a shot a BigLaw.
2) If you are not interested in BigLaw and have a big scholly at Cardozo then I would seriously consider it. I don't think Fordham has a big advantage over Dozo when it comes to other jobs and in this economy less debt is much better.
3) Dozo is definitely a solid school and may be on the rise, but don't kid yourself, Fordham is working day and night to climb into the low twenties. Their numbers are going up as we speak and I wouldn't be surprised to see them solidly in the top 25 this year or next.

It really all depends on what you want. You want biglaw and are confident you can do well then definitely go for fordham. If not, maybe its better to take the scholarship.


My classmate is spot on, as usual. Fordham is seriously under ranked at #30, and no other school has managed to do so much on a modest budget. If we had an endowment closer to a billion, like BU, we would be a top 20 school.

barracudasix
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Re: Fordham, Cardozo, and NY Schools other than NYU or Columbia

Postby barracudasix » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:09 am

I'm with OP and Zapper on being drawn to the atmosphere and QoL at Cardozo. I'm not really interested in BigLaw, having worked as a paralegal in it. I would like to work in the arts in some capacity (I think...). Whether this means working for a giant media corp or doing non-profit, I'm not sure yet.

So all things being equal, wouldn't I want to choose Cardozo? Especially if I get any money from them?

And if their endowment is so large in comparison to Fordham, doesn't that say something (positive) about either the success of their graduates or at least their connection to the school?

It seems to me that what matters most for someone hoping to work in A&E is 1. region and 2. networking over 1. firm placement and 2. USNews rankings. Is this a correct or incorrect perception?

Please forgive me if this sounds naive or confrontational; it isn't meant to be either. I honestly come from a non-lawyering family and don't have a clue...

erniesto
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Re: Fordham, Cardozo, and NY Schools other than NYU or Columbia

Postby erniesto » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:21 am

ZXCVBNM wrote:3) Dozo is definitely a solid school in a shaky market and [strike]may be[/strike] describes itself on the rise, but don't kid yourself, Fordham is working day and night to climb into the low twenties. Their admission numbers are going up as we speak and I wouldn't be surprised to see them solidly in the top 25 this year or next.


FTFY

Fordham is definitely superior in career placement though.

I am making an educated guess here, but in a few years it will be Cardozo=Brooklyn=St. John's not Cardozo=Fordham like the school fed hype says.

I would still take a large scholarship at Cardozo over Fordham. Last I checked Fordham didn't have double the amount of NLJ placement over Cardozo.

Jacobt
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Re: Fordham, Cardozo, and NY Schools other than NYU or Columbia

Postby Jacobt » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:58 am

well both fordham and cardozo dropped in us news so they both may be going downhill based on that

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kaydish21
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Re: Fordham, Cardozo, and NY Schools other than NYU or Columbia

Postby kaydish21 » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:18 am

Jacobt wrote:well both fordham and cardozo dropped in us news so they both may be going downhill based on that


Incorrect. Fordham kept the exact same score in USNews from last year, a 62. It only dropped in the rankings due to improvements by other schools yet all of the schools in this range are just a huge jumble, look at all the ties with 1 point differential. On the other hand Cardozo dropped 1 point from a 54 last year to a 53 this year. Fordham also did little to game the rankings although it seems all the buzz is that they are going to game them more next year, yet Cardozo seems to be doing all it can to game the rankings or improve at all in USNews. Just for clarification, and not in any way trying to support my own decision to turn down the ride at Dozo for Fordham.

Jacobt
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Re: Fordham, Cardozo, and NY Schools other than NYU or Columbia

Postby Jacobt » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:03 am

Got it, interesting point, but relative to other schools it still dropped, absolute score aside. It could very well go up next year. GW jumped back to where it used to be this year and Fordham has traditional prestige like GW that they could maybe do more with. And Cardozo could end up linked with Brooklyn and St. John's. I don't think you have to worry about that happening to Fordham any time soon. I would feel good about your decision. But Cardozo, Fordham, and Brooklyn all dropped relative to other schools, which I think is interesting. So I wonder if there is a reason for all of them dropping, like hiring practices in NYC or something.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Fordham, Cardozo, and NY Schools other than NYU or Columbia

Postby OperaSoprano » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:16 am

Jacobt wrote:Got it, interesting point, but relative to other schools it still dropped, absolute score aside. It could very well go up next year. GW jumped back to where it used to be this year and Fordham has traditional prestige like GW that they could maybe do more with. And Cardozo could end up linked with Brooklyn and St. John's. I don't think you have to worry about that happening to Fordham any time soon. I would feel good about your decision. But Cardozo, Fordham, and Brooklyn all dropped relative to other schools, which I think is interesting. So I wonder if there is a reason for all of them dropping, like hiring practices in NYC or something.


The reason is that the New York market, with its reliance on the finance industry, got hit really badly. I believe all the NYC schools save CLS suffered in the rankings this year.

From everything I've seen and heard, Fordham is scrupulously honest in the numbers it reports. The school actually increased the percentage reporting salary data in 2009, to make for more reliable statistics. I am pretty impressed that they could do this in a recession.

To address the comment about gaming rankings: GW had no choice. You saw how quickly people condemned them for the slide, when the school had done nothing different that I was aware of. Cutting the PT program appears to have fixed the problem (though we can't be conclusive in causation, I will merely say that I think it's highly likely) and Fordham has to do the same. Of course I am grateful they waited a year. I would have been in trouble personally if they had not.

Despite the rankings discrepancy, BU and BC students generally agree with us that the school is on a par for placement. BU and Fordham go back and forth in the NLJ250 rankings almost every year, despite acknowledged underreporting from the firms in question (and an unpublished response rate.) This is still the only data we have that is not school reported.

Jacobt
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Re: Fordham, Cardozo, and NY Schools other than NYU or Columbia

Postby Jacobt » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:24 pm

Yeah, was kind of thinking it was the finance industry but the rest of the country suffered too. I had not heard about GW ending their part-time program but that would account for the student part of the rankings. I wonder if anyone here buys the argument that GW is in another league by comparison to Fordham, at least in terms of national recognition? They both seem to place well in NYC.




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