Thinking of attending UMiami..

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jtgain
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Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby jtgain » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:01 pm

and will have about $175k in debt (total including undergrad) at graduation. Am I a fool? Talk me out of doing this. Or reassure me.

Thanks.

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GoTribe1
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby GoTribe1 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:03 pm

I don't think you should do it, honestly. How much of that debt do you have from undergrad?

Flanker1067
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby Flanker1067 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:10 pm

I mean, do the math. Even if you can find a job, if you don't have connections to biglaw you are basically in servitude for many years. Up to you ultimately...

jtgain
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby jtgain » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:15 pm

GoTribe1 wrote:I don't think you should do it, honestly. How much of that debt do you have from undergrad?


25k

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GoTribe1
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby GoTribe1 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:22 pm

There is a widespread consensus that UM is extremely overpriced. Apparently you'd be paying close to sticker. Personally, I have the same amount of undergrad debt so I am in a similar position in weighing the pros and cons of taking on more. I think it's even more important for those in our shoes that already have loans to pay back to consider going where they're getting the best deal. Consider also where it will be cheap to live for 3 years. I'm trying to keep it around to 100K when all is said and done. What are your other options?

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KirkerBezerker
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby KirkerBezerker » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:28 pm

Fuck that price bro. Your gonna want a $2k car payment after law school not a student loan payment. After visiting the school I can pretty much assure you that the quality of education you will receive there is not worth that price.

The people that pay that price are the parents of the D bags with the Ferraris and Masi's in the parking lot.

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beesknees
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby beesknees » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:29 pm

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Last edited by beesknees on Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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greyarea
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby greyarea » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:30 pm

Don't do it. From what my friends in Miami tell me (who have attended FIU and UMiami) the Miami legal market is fully saturated and unless you are top 10%, family or friends in a law firm, you are looking at a very slim chance of getting big law.

Oh, and if you "habla Espanol" you are not special. Drive around and you'll see that every bus stop bench has a personal injury lawyer with a Spanish Ad.

That being said, big law in Miami is the sweetest of all deals imo. Compared to NY (cold, dirty, and overpriced self important city) Miami has the most beautiful beaches, women, and culturally diverse atmospheres in America.

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DeSilentio2728
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby DeSilentio2728 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:50 pm

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Last edited by DeSilentio2728 on Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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liquidsword
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby liquidsword » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:55 pm

I wouldn't assume that much debt for any school. Really.

jtgain
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby jtgain » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:55 pm

GoTribe1 wrote:There is a widespread consensus that UM is extremely overpriced. Apparently you'd be paying close to sticker. Personally, I have the same amount of undergrad debt so I am in a similar position in weighing the pros and cons of taking on more. I think it's even more important for those in our shoes that already have loans to pay back to consider going where they're getting the best deal. Consider also where it will be cheap to live for 3 years. I'm trying to keep it around to 100K when all is said and done. What are your other options?


My other option is WVU with 8k/yr scholarship. Would have to move back to WV to get much value from that (though it's far cheaper) Would love to stay in South Florida and practice BigLaw in Miami.

I figure if all else fails and I do poorly in school (no top 10%, no big law) then I have IBR to fall back on.

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DeSilentio2728
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby DeSilentio2728 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:09 pm

jtgain wrote:
GoTribe1 wrote:There is a widespread consensus that UM is extremely overpriced. Apparently you'd be paying close to sticker. Personally, I have the same amount of undergrad debt so I am in a similar position in weighing the pros and cons of taking on more. I think it's even more important for those in our shoes that already have loans to pay back to consider going where they're getting the best deal. Consider also where it will be cheap to live for 3 years. I'm trying to keep it around to 100K when all is said and done. What are your other options?


My other option is WVU with 8k/yr scholarship. Would have to move back to WV to get much value from that (though it's far cheaper) Would love to stay in South Florida and practice BigLaw in Miami.

I figure if all else fails and I do poorly in school (no top 10%, no big law) then I have IBR to fall back on.


I hope this doesn't offend you, but I would pay anything not to be stuck in West Virginia the rest of my life.

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beesknees
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby beesknees » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:12 pm

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Last edited by beesknees on Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

LSATfromNC
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby LSATfromNC » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:23 pm

jtgain wrote:and will have about $175k in debt (total including undergrad) at graduation. Am I a fool? Talk me out of doing this. Or reassure me.

Thanks.


You are insane for even contemplating this. Not just Joker insane, but Jennifer Aniston thinking about Bragelina insane.

LSATfromNC
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby LSATfromNC » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:25 pm

liquidsword wrote:I wouldn't assume that much debt for any school. Really.


Even Princeton Law?

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DeSilentio2728
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby DeSilentio2728 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:27 pm

LSATfromNC wrote:
liquidsword wrote:I wouldn't assume that much debt for any school. Really.


Even Princeton Law?


I am assuming it would take a bit more than 175k to start up a law school at Princeton and then graduate from said school.

steven3579
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby steven3579 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:32 pm

If being a lawyer is what you really want and Miami is your only option then i say go for it. If you can find a job that pays 60,000 a year and throw 20,000 a year at your loans, that leaves you with 20-25,000 a year after taxes to live off of for the next ten years. That's not a lot of money but if you can't find a job with your undergraduate degree that pays much more than that, then at least you're a lawyer doing what you love. Good luck with whatever you choose and remember that things always have a way of working themselves out.

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A'nold
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby A'nold » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:33 pm

I would pay 500k to attend HYS and then just use IBR to pay it back......... 8)

matchesmalone
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby matchesmalone » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:39 pm

I'm in the same position as OP at this point, though I don't have the 25k of undergrad debt. Anyone going to ASW? I feel it's a good time to ask what percentage of the class gets BigLaw.

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gdane
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby gdane » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:47 pm

Im not sure how familiar you are with Miami. You said you would love to stay in South Florida, but im not sure how much you know about Miami.

I live in Miami, went to FIU and I cant wait to get out of here. I loved FIU, but Miami. Ugh.

Ill address the debt load first. Don't do it. EVERYONE at Miami wants to do Biglaw and the Biglaw market in Miami is garbage. It always has been, but its been even worse lately. It will stay this way for a while. Unemployment in FL is 11.9% and 12% in Miami and it is forcasted to stay bad in Miami for the next 2 years. In other words, while most of the country will be doing better, Miami will still be in shambles. My UG Conlaw professor told me that Greenberg Taurig (Biggest So.Fla firm) cut its SA program and hired very, very few first year associates. They've also laid off hundreds since 2008. Hunton and Williams and Holland and Knight have also laid off thousands. You cant count on Biglaw. It just isnt there.

There is also a huge shitlaw market. Tons of Personal Injury and Traffic lawyers. As a previous poster noted, there are tons of these lawyers advertising, in both english and spanish. So if you think about going into that field, its already very oversaturated.

Dont go to UM. It is an extremely overrated school. Actually, being a T2 ranked in the 80's its pretty low rated.

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PDaddy
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby PDaddy » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:53 pm

beesknees wrote:
jtgain wrote:
GoTribe1 wrote:There is a widespread consensus that UM is extremely overpriced. Apparently you'd be paying close to sticker. Personally, I have the same amount of undergrad debt so I am in a similar position in weighing the pros and cons of taking on more. I think it's even more important for those in our shoes that already have loans to pay back to consider going where they're getting the best deal. Consider also where it will be cheap to live for 3 years. I'm trying to keep it around to 100K when all is said and done. What are your other options?


My other option is WVU with 8k/yr scholarship. Would have to move back to WV to get much value from that (though it's far cheaper) Would love to stay in South Florida and practice BigLaw in Miami.

I figure if all else fails and I do poorly in school (no top 10%, no big law) then I have IBR to fall back on.


Ooo, biglaw in Miami would be really hard. I have friends at Miami in a good position on the curve and will be happy just with employment! Plus Miami is not a huge biglaw market anyway, so even if you were at the top of your class, its not a sure bet by any stretch.

Total facepalm to the IBR as fall back for bad decision to go to expensive T2 law school comment.


My general position is this: if you cannot keep your debt below $100K at a school, it probably isn't worth going. But much depends on your personal finances, family, etc. You should strive to keep it below $75K. There are exceptions to this rule.
Last edited by PDaddy on Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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darknightbegins
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby darknightbegins » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:51 am

Well if he has 25K going in it might be pretty tough to keep debt below 75K after three years of law school.

Damn if its down to Miami and WVU...maybe sit out a cycle and try again. The next cycle may not be competitive as this one. I was considering Miami but the price scared me off. Where do you want to work? What kind of law do you want to do? If you can get in state at UF or FSU its cheaper, if not, you aren't saving much money over Miami. Maybe look at other schools throughout the southeast if that is where you want to practice and can save you money.

Put a gun to my head between WVU and Miami then I pick Miami. At least I'll enjoy the climate, culture and women in Miami as I work to pay off my debt.

jtgain
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby jtgain » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:28 am

Thanks for the great responses.

Please help me out with the facepalms for IBR because I'm seeing that as a life raft. If I'm not top 10% and have a massive amount of debt, I could go into public practice, have the payments at a percentage of income, and then after 10 years be debt free.

This isn't my first plan, but it's there. It's not like I'm sentencing myself to a life of indentured servitude. I've crunched the numbers and from what I am seeing, with IBR, my lifestyle would be no worse than it is now, but I would have the benefit of being in a profession that I love, with a path for forward movement.

Others mention FSU or UF. I'm 34 years old with a family. I've worked most of my adult life at garbage jobs and I'm ready for a profession. I can't really uproot my family and move to Gainesville or Tallahassee. I might return to WV where family is located, but I don't really want to do that. I love living in South Florida, and I think that I have the ability to get the top 10% and get one of those few biglaw jobs. (I know, everyone thinks that)

So, is this gamble I'm taking like placing everything on red at the roulette table, or am I placing everything on a single number?

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DeSilentio2728
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby DeSilentio2728 » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:43 am

jtgain wrote:Thanks for the great responses.

Please help me out with the facepalms for IBR because I'm seeing that as a life raft. If I'm not top 10% and have a massive amount of debt, I could go into public practice, have the payments at a percentage of income, and then after 10 years be debt free.

This isn't my first plan, but it's there. It's not like I'm sentencing myself to a life of indentured servitude. I've crunched the numbers and from what I am seeing, with IBR, my lifestyle would be no worse than it is now, but I would have the benefit of being in a profession that I love, with a path for forward movement.

Others mention FSU or UF. I'm 34 years old with a family. I've worked most of my adult life at garbage jobs and I'm ready for a profession. I can't really uproot my family and move to Gainesville or Tallahassee. I might return to WV where family is located, but I don't really want to do that. I love living in South Florida, and I think that I have the ability to get the top 10% and get one of those few biglaw jobs. (I know, everyone thinks that)

So, is this gamble I'm taking like placing everything on red at the roulette table, or am I placing everything on a single number?


Go to Miami. Be Proud of yourself for getting in and working hard while you are there. Your family will be proud of you for entering a new profession. You gotta do it now because it gets really tough after 40 to head back to school. Screw uprooting yourself, but don't plan on a biglaw job. You'll find a way to make things work out.
Last edited by DeSilentio2728 on Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

LSATfromNC
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Re: Thinking of attending UMiami..

Postby LSATfromNC » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:27 pm

jtgain wrote:Thanks for the great responses.

Please help me out with the facepalms for IBR because I'm seeing that as a life raft. If I'm not top 10% and have a massive amount of debt, I could go into public practice, have the payments at a percentage of income, and then after 10 years be debt free.

This isn't my first plan, but it's there. It's not like I'm sentencing myself to a life of indentured servitude. I've crunched the numbers and from what I am seeing, with IBR, my lifestyle would be no worse than it is now, but I would have the benefit of being in a profession that I love, with a path for forward movement.

Others mention FSU or UF. I'm 34 years old with a family. I've worked most of my adult life at garbage jobs and I'm ready for a profession. I can't really uproot my family and move to Gainesville or Tallahassee. I might return to WV where family is located, but I don't really want to do that. I love living in South Florida, and I think that I have the ability to get the top 10% and get one of those few biglaw jobs. (I know, everyone thinks that)

So, is this gamble I'm taking like placing everything on red at the roulette table, or am I placing everything on a single number?


IBR may or may not be around, I personally wouldn't count on it. And if you don't work public interest, you will be left with one hell of a tax year once your loans are forgiven.

I am in a similar situation, a little older than average and I have a family, I would never, never, never consider going 175k in debt for law school. I'd prefer to save for my kids education than continue making minimum payments on my law degree until 2040! Hell, I will probably have grand kids by then!

If you have the numbers for FSU or UF, and are an instate resident, I could give you 175,000 reasons why you are stupid if you don't spend a couple thousand and move your family there. 34 or 35 you're no spring chicken, waiting a year isn't exactly going to be life changing.




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