GPA decline addendum

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narkizopoint
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Re: GPA decline addendum

Postby narkizopoint » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:20 pm

I was an english major - it is much easier than math/science/chemistry/etc. Dont lie to yourself, just be content that its much harder than Psych/Communications/Journalism/etc.

hotdoglaw
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Re: GPA decline addendum

Postby hotdoglaw » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:28 pm

r6_philly wrote:before I appear to be an ass I want to qualify that it is good that you switched into something you can excel at, it is a good quality to not beat a dead horse. But it has to be easier for you because you did better. Unless you just didn't really apply yourself at CS but then it wouldn't be something you want to tell law school (that you didn't care). So it would be better if you just tell (if you want to send an addendum anyway) that you found that CS is not for you, you were trying hard but failing, switched to English which is what you really like and can excel at, yada yada... But still if you fail CS, it is tough to explain, because if you tried hard then it means you are bad at strict logic. If you didn't try then ... I said that already.

Or it could be that fellow computer science majors had been programming for years, while my background in CS was nil.

r6_philly
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Re: GPA decline addendum

Postby r6_philly » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:31 pm

hotdoglaw wrote:Or it could be that fellow computer science majors had been programming for years, while my background in CS was nil.


The question was not whether your fellow students did better than you, it is whether or not you did well in CS. So it doesn't matter how they did, it only matters that you couldn't get good grades. CS programs are not designed to only admit people who can program, if that is the case what's the point of the program (they are already competent). Also, the point of computer science is acutally not programming, software engineering and programming is only applied CS, the "science" part of computer science is theoretical. Math/logical based.

hotdoglaw
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Re: GPA decline addendum

Postby hotdoglaw » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:33 pm

r6_philly wrote:
hotdoglaw wrote:Or it could be that fellow computer science majors had been programming for years, while my background in CS was nil.


The question was not whether your fellow students did better than you, it is whether or not you did well in CS. So it doesn't matter how they did, it only matters that you couldn't get good grades. CS programs are not designed to only admit people who can program, if that is the case what's the point of the program (they are already competent). Also, the point of computer science is acutally not programming, software engineering and programming is only applied CS, the "science" part of computer science is theoretical. Math/logical based.

When graded on a curve, how classmates did does matter.

hotdoglaw
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Re: GPA decline addendum

Postby hotdoglaw » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:37 pm

Also, I started tutoring at my school's writing center and won the 2009 award for best creative non-fiction essay. (I'm saying this only to demonstrate I wasn't "taking the easy way out" but genuinely involved in the area.

HBK
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Re: GPA decline addendum

Postby HBK » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:39 pm

It's funny how vehemently you defend such an easy and generally useless major.

nyskidude
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Re: GPA decline addendum

Postby nyskidude » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:46 pm

As a computer science major/math minor, I can vouch for people saying CS is harder than English. In an English paper that is 10 pages, if you don't spell a word correctly or miss a single comma, no big deal, a couple small mistakes per paper isn't going to make you fail the thing. In computer science, when you write a program that has 10+ pages of code (which is everything after freshman year), if you are missing a single semi-colon or misspell a single word, the entire program doesn't work, and you must spend hours upon hours in a lab finding that one miniscule error. Write programs using semaphores and tell me how that goes when you look stuff up in a book (hint: books won't help you with that very much).

Also, for people who say CS majors don't have to write essays, my senior thesis had to be 60 pages long. Yeah, we write essays too.

09042014
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Re: GPA decline addendum

Postby 09042014 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:46 pm

hotdoglaw wrote:Also, I started tutoring at my school's writing center and won the 2009 award for best creative non-fiction essay. (I'm saying this only to demonstrate I wasn't "taking the easy way out" but genuinely involved in the area.


And you couldn't even 3.0 in the first year of the CompSci program. You are proving our point. Thanks.

r6_philly
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Re: GPA decline addendum

Postby r6_philly » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:48 pm

hotdoglaw wrote:When graded on a curve, how classmates did does matter.


Explain this to me... You claim you got curved down? CS classes are not like English classes, you earn points for getting things right. If points were added to your grade then you got curved up then you have no complain. If you points were removed - well I never heard of that... I mean if you earned a B grade and eveyrone earned a A grade so they got curved to a C and you got a D?

r6_philly
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Re: GPA decline addendum

Postby r6_philly » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:51 pm

nyskidude wrote:
Also, for people who say CS majors don't have to write essays, my senior thesis had to be 60 pages long. Yeah, we write essays too.


I co-authored a paper with my prof. this past year. The course was marked as writing emphasis, we handed in about 60 pages including small writing assignements and term paper and essay tests (computer security). I am writing a independent research project this semester. You can do a thesis. We have to write spec documents and process documents in Software Engineering. I have a couple of English major friends. I write/submit twice as much as them.

09042014
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Re: GPA decline addendum

Postby 09042014 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:52 pm

r6_philly wrote:
hotdoglaw wrote:When graded on a curve, how classmates did does matter.


Explain this to me... You claim you got curved down? CS classes are not like English classes, you earn points for getting things right. If points were added to your grade then you got curved up then you have no complain. If you points were removed - well I never heard of that... I mean if you earned a B grade and eveyrone earned a A grade so they got curved to a C and you got a D?


When a teacher curves a class they assign grades on a Gaussian distribution. They don't just add points. If for example they curved to a B- median, if the median grade was an 85, an 85 would be a B-.

You are graded on competition with other students not how many points you get.

Law school is the same way.

r6_philly
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Re: GPA decline addendum

Postby r6_philly » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:57 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
When a teacher curves a class they assign grades on a Gaussian distribution. They don't just add points. If for example they curved to a B- median, if the median grade was an 85, an 85 would be a B-.

You are graded on competition with other students not how many points you get.

Law school is the same way.


What if all students are within 1-2% of points earned? he would have to be substantially lower to get a letter grade or 2 lower?

sorry, goes back to the other thread, i never cared about the curve

09042014
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Re: GPA decline addendum

Postby 09042014 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:08 pm

r6_philly wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
When a teacher curves a class they assign grades on a Gaussian distribution. They don't just add points. If for example they curved to a B- median, if the median grade was an 85, an 85 would be a B-.

You are graded on competition with other students not how many points you get.

Law school is the same way.


What if all students are within 1-2% of points earned? he would have to be substantially lower to get a letter grade or 2 lower?

sorry, goes back to the other thread, i never cared about the curve


No, if all students were within 1-2% he would have only had to do slight worse to get a D, or an F. In many curved classes F's are by discretion only.

I've had tests where 90% was a B-, and classes were 40% is an A.

Law school is graded like this so you get familiar before you start.

r6_philly
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Re: GPA decline addendum

Postby r6_philly » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:16 pm

Desert Fox wrote:No, if all students were within 1-2% he would have only had to do slight worse to get a D, or an F. In many curved classes F's are by discretion only.

I've had tests where 90% was a B-, and classes were 40% is an A.

Law school is graded like this so you get familiar before you start.



So when SD is small they still curve to about the same distribution? Thanks for finally explaining to me right. I see now why foreign education systems have the advantage (like mine).

I couldn't understand it when I was told last semester I didn't have to take 2 finals. I understand now.

I think school/law school is going to be easier than I thought, if all I have to do is do better. My understanding was that I have to get close to what was given out (and expected to earn). I guess I was wrong. You mean I could have worked half as hard to get the same grades? :| something is wrong is with this.

Just to make sure I get this right. If I get 100 on a test, and the next best score is a 50 and the median is 40, the 40 would be say B, 50 would be A- and I would have an A? right?

09042014
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Re: GPA decline addendum

Postby 09042014 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:20 pm

r6_philly wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:No, if all students were within 1-2% he would have only had to do slight worse to get a D, or an F. In many curved classes F's are by discretion only.

I've had tests where 90% was a B-, and classes were 40% is an A.

Law school is graded like this so you get familiar before you start.



So when SD is small they still curve to about the same distribution? Thanks for finally explaining to me right. I see now why foreign education systems have the advantage (like mine).

I couldn't understand it when I was told last semester I didn't have to take 2 finals. I understand now.

I think school/law school is going to be easier than I thought, if all I have to do is do better. My understanding was that I have to get close to what was given out (and expected to earn). I guess I was wrong. You mean I could have worked half as hard to get the same grades? :| something is wrong is with this.

Just to make sure I get this right. If I get 100 on a test, and the next best score is a 50 and the median is 40, the 40 would be say B, 50 would be A- and I would have an A? right?


Yes that is how it works.

But I wouldn't take from this that law school exams will be easy. Unlike CS, everyone in law school is going to be trying, and they'll all be the same league as you intellectually. Exams are also graded subjectively which makes them random to a small degree. Work you ass off and let the chips fall where they may.

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Unitas
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Re: GPA decline addendum

Postby Unitas » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:21 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:No, if all students were within 1-2% he would have only had to do slight worse to get a D, or an F. In many curved classes F's are by discretion only.

I've had tests where 90% was a B-, and classes were 40% is an A.

Law school is graded like this so you get familiar before you start.



So when SD is small they still curve to about the same distribution? Thanks for finally explaining to me right. I see now why foreign education systems have the advantage (like mine).

I couldn't understand it when I was told last semester I didn't have to take 2 finals. I understand now.

I think school/law school is going to be easier than I thought, if all I have to do is do better. My understanding was that I have to get close to what was given out (and expected to earn). I guess I was wrong. You mean I could have worked half as hard to get the same grades? :| something is wrong is with this.

Just to make sure I get this right. If I get 100 on a test, and the next best score is a 50 and the median is 40, the 40 would be say B, 50 would be A- and I would have an A? right?


Yes that is how it works.

But I wouldn't take from this that law school exams will be easy. Unlike CS, everyone in law school is going to be trying, and they'll all be the same league as you intellectually. Exams are also graded subjectively which makes them random to a small degree. Work you ass off and let the chips fall where they may.



Aren't exams also graded blind meaning the professor doesn't know who wrote it?

hotdoglaw
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Re: GPA decline addendum

Postby hotdoglaw » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:23 pm

nyskidude wrote:As a computer science major/math minor, I can vouch for people saying CS is harder than English. In an English paper that is 10 pages, if you don't spell a word correctly or miss a single comma, no big deal, a couple small mistakes per paper isn't going to make you fail the thing. In computer science, when you write a program that has 10+ pages of code (which is everything after freshman year), if you are missing a single semi-colon or misspell a single word, the entire program doesn't work, and you must spend hours upon hours in a lab finding that one miniscule error. Write programs using semaphores and tell me how that goes when you look stuff up in a book (hint: books won't help you with that very much).

Also, for people who say CS majors don't have to write essays, my senior thesis had to be 60 pages long. Yeah, we write essays too.


I think that comparing grammatical errors to errors in writing code is comparing apples and oranges. On the one hand you are right: grammatical errors not = fail. On the other hand a B- paper not = an A paper when you fix grammar mistakes. In CS, you add a semi-colon and your done. Fine.

...but that does sound rigorous...hours and hours looking for a minuscule error.

And about the curve... Some courses were curved, others were not. In general, however, a significant amount of background knowledge was assumed for even introductory courses. The result was constantly playing catch-up.

I'm bored defending the dignity of the English major. In retrospect I think I should have done something like the History of Salt or Primitive Cultures.

r6_philly
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Re: GPA decline addendum

Postby r6_philly » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:39 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Yes that is how it works.

But I wouldn't take from this that law school exams will be easy. Unlike CS, everyone in law school is going to be trying, and they'll all be the same league as you intellectually. Exams are also graded subjectively which makes them random to a small degree. Work you ass off and let the chips fall where they may.



Noted, thank you sir!

I want to clarify, I am not saying law school will be easy, I think it would be easier than I perceived, because I was brought up in the environment that I have to get perfect or near it. I wouldn't be so stressed if I don't get all the points as long as I am doing better. I feel that the goal of being equal or better is easier to achieve than actually trying to fullfill an impossible goal (like you said, some tests are not supposed to be granted full credit, but I would want it).




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