LOR from a famous person

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OneKnight
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby OneKnight » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:00 am

Kchuck wrote:
OneKnight wrote:TIMELINE ERROR --> Bush graduated from Yale University in 1968, and Harvard Business School in 1975. Daddy was in office from 1989 – 1993 (good God I'm getting old if you don't remember Bush 1...
Yes, Bush Sr. was a House Rep, our UN ambassador, and Chairman of the RNC during those years, but not President.


Don't forget Grandpappy Prescott was a US Senator and Yale Alumnus



No kidding, he had legacy coming out of his ears!

davipatr
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby davipatr » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:20 pm

What I am saying is that the famous issue does not play at all. Legacy does, sometimes. I also listened to our pre-law advisor have a converstation with Stanford about a legacy student. He was URM native american, enrolled member of tribe, appointed leader in tribe, and on and on. Pretty impressive. When she asked if it mattered whether or not the kid's dad had gone to stanford they said (very smugly) "Well...did he go to stanford law?" "Yes, of course" "(pause) (sigh) What is his father's name?" So basically T3 schools could care less about any of that. They only want the brightest and best who can demonstrate this on paper without anyone special chiming in.

We have to remember that we are talking about (even though maybe they deserve to be) some of the most self-impressed people in the world. Yale, Harvard, and especially Stanford feel like even a 4.0, 180, school president, URM, ambassador to haiti, published ten times at the age of 20 candidate should thank them on bended knee for even reading their file. I am sure especially these three would take exception with anyone thinking they could be wowed by a letter from a famous person. If that famous person knows the individual very well then it will be the second factor, not the first, that looks good to them.

Again, the dean of admissions from GW said right in front of me that they get over 1,000 LORs annually from senators/congessman and always a dozen or so from the exact same senator (apparently orrin hatch is infamous for this), and there are always some that look identical. They want to hear from someone who knows you. And is qualified to evaluate your capacities as a law student.
forty-two wrote:
davipatr wrote:Deans of admissions do not like these letters. They find them personally insulting, and I have heard several say as much. What you have to consider is that the famous person you can get a letter from is probably hit up for a letter multiple times per years, and at this point has a form letter routinely given out to anyone who wants a recomendation.

I have heard several deans (GW, Georgetown, American, Stanford) say that every year at least a few people send in the exact same letter only with the name changed because their local senator recommended them both. Needless to say this did not help them. Without exception all I have heard from deans and admissions people is that what they really want is someone who can speak to your specific qualifications and characteristics. They trust any professor as much if not much more than any famous person.
ps. (our university has a dean's night each fall and spring where they hold a mock admissions panel to educate people on the process) they also frown on famous people putting in a call unless they already have a personal relationship with the school. Basically they think they are awesome (after all, you applied for consideration at their school) and they don't enjoy having someone else's awesomeness thrown in their face.
GW's dad had already been to Yale.


Are you saying this is true in all cases, or just when the recommender doesn't know the applicant very well? I understand why a generic letter from someone famous would be frowned upon, but I would find it weird if it was still looked down on if the applicant actually has a really good relationship with a recommender who just happened to be famous.
Last edited by davipatr on Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

andreea7
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby andreea7 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:23 pm

Famous person = very busy person = very short and impersonal letter= irrelevant

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H. E. Pennypacker
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby H. E. Pennypacker » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:25 pm

George H. W. Bush wasn't just another legacy at Yale.

forty-two
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby forty-two » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:28 pm

davipatr wrote:What I am saying is that the famous issue does not play at all. Legacy does, sometimes. I also listened to our pre-law advisor have a converstation with Stanford about a legacy student. He was URM native american, enrolled member of tribe, appointed leader in tribe, and on and on. Pretty impressive. When she asked if it mattered whether or not the kid's dad had gone to stanford they said (very smugly) "Well...did he go to stanford law?" "Yes, of course" "(pause) (sigh) What is his father's name?" So basically T3 schools could care less about any of that. They only want the brightest and best who can demonstrate this on paper without anyone special chiming in.

So, if a famous person just happens to be in the best position to write a letter, then that's fine but you shouldn't expect the name of the recommender to give you a boost? If so, that's what I thought. Your earlier post just made it seem like a well known recommender should be avoided at all costs.

davipatr
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby davipatr » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:33 pm

forty-two wrote:
davipatr wrote:What I am saying is that the famous issue does not play at all. Legacy does, sometimes. I also listened to our pre-law advisor have a converstation with Stanford about a legacy student. He was URM native american, enrolled member of tribe, appointed leader in tribe, and on and on. Pretty impressive. When she asked if it mattered whether or not the kid's dad had gone to stanford they said (very smugly) "Well...did he go to stanford law?" "Yes, of course" "(pause) (sigh) What is his father's name?" So basically T3 schools could care less about any of that. They only want the brightest and best who can demonstrate this on paper without anyone special chiming in.

So, if a famous person just happens to be in the best position to write a letter, then that's fine but you shouldn't expect the name of the recommender to give you a boost? If so, that's what I thought. Your earlier post just made it seem like a well known recommender should be avoided at all costs.


No, being well known doesn't matter one way or the other unless they are a well known alumn. Barack Obama for example (if he knew the person) would be a bulletproof recomendation to Harvard (I think that's where he went). The Bush's similarly for Yale.

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T14_Scholly
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby T14_Scholly » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:39 pm

How the fuck would anyone on this forum know whether a LOR from Tony Blair would help you out? Lol, just a bunch of people throwing guesses out there.

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GATORTIM
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby GATORTIM » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:24 pm

T14_Scholly wrote:How the fuck would anyone on this forum know whether a LOR from Tony Blair would help you out? Lol, just a bunch of people throwing guesses out there.

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bees
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby bees » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:30 pm

GATORTIM wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:How the fuck would anyone on this forum know whether a LOR from Tony Blair would help you out? Lol, just a bunch of people throwing guesses out there.


Because some adcoms have actually publicly stated that letters from famous people can hurt more than they help. If the famous person doesn't know you well and is just writing you a generic letter, then adcoms will look at you like you're a tool who thought name dropping would help. If the person knows you well enough to write a meaningful letter, then it works the same as if a normal professor wrote you a great recommendation.

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holydonkey
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby holydonkey » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:32 pm

Tony Blair pisses the crap out of me. At least Bush had balls. Stupid balls, but balls none the less.

A neocon labor party leader with no spine can't possibly please anyone. Blair somehow managed to combine the worst of liberalism and the worst of conservatism.

If I was the adcomm, I'd deny you on that alone.

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T14_Scholly
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby T14_Scholly » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:38 pm

bees wrote:
GATORTIM wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:How the fuck would anyone on this forum know whether a LOR from Tony Blair would help you out? Lol, just a bunch of people throwing guesses out there.


Because some adcoms have actually publicly stated that letters from famous people can hurt more than they help. If the famous person doesn't know you well and is just writing you a generic letter, then adcoms will look at you like you're a tool who thought name dropping would help. If the person knows you well enough to write a meaningful letter, then it works the same as if a normal professor wrote you a great recommendation.


Okay, maybe they said that about Congressmen or something. How about Tony fucking Blair? You don't know.

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hotdog123
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby hotdog123 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:49 pm

T14_Scholly wrote:
bees wrote:
GATORTIM wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:How the fuck would anyone on this forum know whether a LOR from Tony Blair would help you out? Lol, just a bunch of people throwing guesses out there.


Because some adcoms have actually publicly stated that letters from famous people can hurt more than they help. If the famous person doesn't know you well and is just writing you a generic letter, then adcoms will look at you like you're a tool who thought name dropping would help. If the person knows you well enough to write a meaningful letter, then it works the same as if a normal professor wrote you a great recommendation.


Okay, maybe they said that about Congressmen or something. How about Tony fucking Blair? You don't know.


Pipe down.

He gave a thoughtful, logical, credited explanation. (as others have, as well)

No need to be a dick.

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bees
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby bees » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:26 pm

T14_Scholly wrote:
bees wrote:
GATORTIM wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:How the fuck would anyone on this forum know whether a LOR from Tony Blair would help you out? Lol, just a bunch of people throwing guesses out there.


Because some adcoms have actually publicly stated that letters from famous people can hurt more than they help. If the famous person doesn't know you well and is just writing you a generic letter, then adcoms will look at you like you're a tool who thought name dropping would help. If the person knows you well enough to write a meaningful letter, then it works the same as if a normal professor wrote you a great recommendation.


Okay, maybe they said that about Congressmen or something. How about Tony fucking Blair? You don't know.


:lol:

davipatr
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby davipatr » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:15 pm

T14_Scholly wrote:
bees wrote:
GATORTIM wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:How the fuck would anyone on this forum know whether a LOR from Tony Blair would help you out? Lol, just a bunch of people throwing guesses out there.


Because some adcoms have actually publicly stated that letters from famous people can hurt more than they help. If the famous person doesn't know you well and is just writing you a generic letter, then adcoms will look at you like you're a tool who thought name dropping would help. If the person knows you well enough to write a meaningful letter, then it works the same as if a normal professor wrote you a great recommendation.


Okay, maybe they said that about Congressmen or something. How about Tony fucking Blair? You don't know.

You seem like such a nice, intelligent person. Why don't you try this out and then come tell me how I was right. You must have never met a dean of admissions if you think something like name dropping impresses them. Is Tony Blair an academic? No. Is he a Judge? No. Is there anything about him that qualifies him to state whether or not a person is qualified to attend law school at Stanford, Yale, or Harvard? No. The only thing he is capable of producing that a dean would want to consider is an evaluation of a person's character with whom he is very well acquanted. The fact that he is "TONY FUCKING BLAIR" is irrelevant.

The bottom line is that if someone is not qualified to give very good, very specific and detailed information about either your character or intellectual ability you don't want them to give you a letter, it won't do you any good. I do know.

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T14_Scholly
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby T14_Scholly » Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:43 am

davipatr wrote:You seem like such a nice, intelligent person. Why don't you try this out and then come tell me how I was right. You must have never met a dean of admissions if you think something like name dropping impresses them. Is Tony Blair an academic? No. Is he a Judge? No. Is there anything about him that qualifies him to state whether or not a person is qualified to attend law school at Stanford, Yale, or Harvard? No. The only thing he is capable of producing that a dean would want to consider is an evaluation of a person's character with whom he is very well acquanted. The fact that he is "TONY FUCKING BLAIR" is irrelevant.

The bottom line is that if someone is not qualified to give very good, very specific and detailed information about either your character or intellectual ability you don't want them to give you a letter, it won't do you any good. I do know.


That might be what adcomms preach, but if they actually had a letter in front of them from fucking Tony Blair, it might just have an impact. At least, it's plausible. Neither you nor I have a fucking clue though. That's my point.

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Vincent Vega
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby Vincent Vega » Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:48 am

Now do the Tony Blair, throw your hands in the air now everywhere.

Jaggles
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby Jaggles » Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:58 am

T14_Scholly wrote:
davipatr wrote:You seem like such a nice, intelligent person. Why don't you try this out and then come tell me how I was right. You must have never met a dean of admissions if you think something like name dropping impresses them. Is Tony Blair an academic? No. Is he a Judge? No. Is there anything about him that qualifies him to state whether or not a person is qualified to attend law school at Stanford, Yale, or Harvard? No. The only thing he is capable of producing that a dean would want to consider is an evaluation of a person's character with whom he is very well acquanted. The fact that he is "TONY FUCKING BLAIR" is irrelevant.

The bottom line is that if someone is not qualified to give very good, very specific and detailed information about either your character or intellectual ability you don't want them to give you a letter, it won't do you any good. I do know.


That might be what adcomms preach, but if they actually had a letter in front of them from fucking Tony Blair, it might just have an impact. At least, it's plausible. Neither you nor I have a fucking clue though. That's my point.

It has been my experience that adcomms and deans of admissions preach letters from famous people who don't really know a candidate are useless do so for the sole purpose of misleading candidates and to be sure to increase their workload of wading through bullshit. :roll:

nyskidude
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby nyskidude » Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:03 am

Dangit... And I thought my LOR from Paris Hilton was going to HELP me get into a T6 law school....

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T14_Scholly
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby T14_Scholly » Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:04 pm

Jaggles wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:
davipatr wrote:You seem like such a nice, intelligent person. Why don't you try this out and then come tell me how I was right. You must have never met a dean of admissions if you think something like name dropping impresses them. Is Tony Blair an academic? No. Is he a Judge? No. Is there anything about him that qualifies him to state whether or not a person is qualified to attend law school at Stanford, Yale, or Harvard? No. The only thing he is capable of producing that a dean would want to consider is an evaluation of a person's character with whom he is very well acquanted. The fact that he is "TONY FUCKING BLAIR" is irrelevant.

The bottom line is that if someone is not qualified to give very good, very specific and detailed information about either your character or intellectual ability you don't want them to give you a letter, it won't do you any good. I do know.


That might be what adcomms preach, but if they actually had a letter in front of them from fucking Tony Blair, it might just have an impact. At least, it's plausible. Neither you nor I have a fucking clue though. That's my point.

It has been my experience that adcomms and deans of admissions preach letters from famous people who don't really know a candidate are useless do so for the sole purpose of misleading candidates and to be sure to increase their workload of wading through bullshit. :roll:


Chances are Tony Blair isn't going to be writing too many letters and increasing their workload.

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castellon
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby castellon » Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:05 pm

miche1esim wrote:bush jr got into yale and harvard. that is all.


He got rejected from UT law.

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Vincent Vega
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby Vincent Vega » Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:32 pm

castellon wrote:
miche1esim wrote:bush jr got into yale and harvard. that is all.


He got rejected from UT law.


I'm sure he cried all night about that.

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Thunder Jones
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby Thunder Jones » Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:43 pm

You should have gotten Matthew McConaughey to write your LOR.

Tony Blair is a douche, Matthew McConaughey plays bongos.

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Vincent Vega
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby Vincent Vega » Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:55 pm

I got Bill Nye the Science Guy to write me a LOR. He wrote that my academic potential was "hotter than 1.99 nonillion kilograms of solar plasma."

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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby imchuckbass58 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:05 pm

davipatr wrote:You seem like such a nice, intelligent person. Why don't you try this out and then come tell me how I was right. You must have never met a dean of admissions if you think something like name dropping impresses them. Is Tony Blair an academic? No. Is he a Judge? No. Is there anything about him that qualifies him to state whether or not a person is qualified to attend law school at Stanford, Yale, or Harvard? No. The only thing he is capable of producing that a dean would want to consider is an evaluation of a person's character with whom he is very well acquanted. The fact that he is "TONY FUCKING BLAIR" is irrelevant.


Well, actually, Tony Blair recently was a visiting professor at Yale and taught a couple of classes there (http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/unive ... -next-yea/). He's not a law professor, but I think he's as qualified as any other political science professor to write a recommendation and give his opinion if someone is academically qualified to attend law school.

If you look at OP's post, he specifically asks if a famous person's recommendation would be helpful IF THAT FAMOUS PERSON WERE HIS PROFESSOR. Assuming the professor actually knows OP in some way (i.e., it was a seminar, or you went to office hours often), then I think this is fine, and definitely a plus.

fomenting
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Re: LOR from a famous person

Postby fomenting » Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:01 am

I guess I should clarify my original question. I took a class with him, he knows me pretty well, I was one of the more (although not most) memorable students in the class, and he said I am a "very good writer". So, in essence, he can write about my intellectual abilities in depth. Let me add to that the fact that we are on opposite political spectrums. Will I go from T6 to T3?




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