Why all the hate towards American???

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APimpNamedSlickback
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Re: What's so wrong with American???

Postby APimpNamedSlickback » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:41 pm

jetlagz28 wrote:American WCL 1L here.

How much is any private law school in the United States? The COL is on the high side, you are right. The reason why *WCL gets a bad rap on this board is because people regurgitate what they've read here.

EDIT! * (1:30am typo)


wcl logic

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ATOIsp07
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Re: Why all the hate towards American???

Postby ATOIsp07 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:26 am

^
douchebag.

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SteelReserve
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Re: Why all the hate towards American???

Postby SteelReserve » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:03 pm

^
douchebag.


Hah, might be true, but jetlagz28 comment was not well-thought out nor insightful. The point is not that private law schools are expensive--they very much are. The point is that there are not a great many law schools that make the cost worth it for the majority of its students. American is not one them. Neither is my school (hence why I would never have gone were it nor for the minimal debt I will be graduating with).

And second, the reason why *WCL gets a bad rap on the board is not because people 'regurgitate' what they've read here. It's a simple objective fact. I would encourage the 1L to approach his school's career services office to ask how many 2Ls received paying employment for the summer. I suspect the number will be very very low. Then what? You gonna try to compete with the Georgetown, GW, George Mason, etc etc kids that will own you in the clerkship application process?

Then what? Best case is 40k public sector if you can even get that, or 40k small firm job. Again, enjoy years of extremely tight and difficult living.

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ATOIsp07
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Re: Why all the hate towards American???

Postby ATOIsp07 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:13 pm

SteelReserve wrote:
^
douchebag.


Hah, might be true, but jetlagz28 comment was not well-thought out nor insightful. The point is not that private law schools are expensive--they very much are. The point is that there are not a great many law schools that make the cost worth it for the majority of its students. American is not one them. Neither is my school (hence why I would never have gone were it nor for the minimal debt I will be graduating with).

And second, the reason why *WCL gets a bad rap on the board is not because people 'regurgitate' what they've read here. It's a simple objective fact. I would encourage the 1L to approach his school's career services office to ask how many 2Ls received paying employment for the summer. I suspect the number will be very very low. Then what? You gonna try to compete with the Georgetown, GW, George Mason, etc etc kids that will own you in the clerkship application process?

Then what? Best case is 40k public sector if you can even get that, or 40k small firm job. Again, enjoy years of extremely tight and difficult living.


1.) Until you have actual numbers (ie-hard, supporting data) to your claim, your opinion on what the number is for 2Ls receiving paid employment, your opinion is just speculation.

2.) Regardless of the USNWR rankings, WCL has more lay prestige than GMU and actually has a pretty solid network within the DC area. Employers are probably more knowledgeable and respectful to American grads than GMUs. Take that as you will..

3.) People on here must remember that WCL doesn't have a BIGLAW focus and is aimed more towards clinical training, public interest, human rights, etc. So to compare American to a school such as GW or GMU (which leans more towards business/tax law, etc.) is basically comparing apples to oranges and is rather disingenuous.

Plus, those who make 40K qualify for LRAP/IBR payment plans, which forgive your your reminaing debt after 10 years. Just sayin'...

All in all, it is down to the OP to decide what fits his/her interests and make a decision accordingly. If OP wants BIGLAW, then, yes, there are better options. But for public interest/clinical training/govt., American more than holds its own in an uber-competitive legal market. And the school must be doing something right to be ranked in the top50, despite having bigger schools in its area.

OP, live the life you love. love the life you live.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Why all the hate towards American???

Postby D. H2Oman » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:24 pm

ATOIsp07 wrote:^
douchebag.


lol, I should have known you were back, I felt the IQ on TLS go down a few points.

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FunkyJD
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Re: Why all the hate towards American???

Postby FunkyJD » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:26 pm

ATOIsp07 wrote:
SteelReserve wrote:
^
douchebag.


Hah, might be true, but jetlagz28 comment was not well-thought out nor insightful. The point is not that private law schools are expensive--they very much are. The point is that there are not a great many law schools that make the cost worth it for the majority of its students. American is not one them. Neither is my school (hence why I would never have gone were it nor for the minimal debt I will be graduating with).

And second, the reason why *WCL gets a bad rap on the board is not because people 'regurgitate' what they've read here. It's a simple objective fact. I would encourage the 1L to approach his school's career services office to ask how many 2Ls received paying employment for the summer. I suspect the number will be very very low. Then what? You gonna try to compete with the Georgetown, GW, George Mason, etc etc kids that will own you in the clerkship application process?

Then what? Best case is 40k public sector if you can even get that, or 40k small firm job. Again, enjoy years of extremely tight and difficult living.


1.) Until you have actual numbers (ie-hard, supporting data) to your claim, your opinion on what the number is for 2Ls receiving paid employment, your opinion is just speculation.

2.) Regardless of the USNWR rankings, WCL has more lay prestige than GMU and actually has a pretty solid network within the DC area. Employers are probably more knowledgeable and respectful to American grads than GMUs. Take that as you will.

#2 seems pretty speculative to me, as well. The part in bold is especially shaky. Off the top of my head, I don't think most people in Fairfax County, where there is a decent legal market, would agree with you. And I don't think WCL is blowing Mason out of the water in DC. Where is this lay prestige advantage, then?

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gdane
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Re: Why all the hate towards American???

Postby gdane » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:29 pm

Honestly, I think most of what people say on TLS is speculation. Im not sure how many actual attorney's come on here.

As for the rankings, I realized yesterday that GMU only "beats" American by 4 spots, 41 vs 45. I really doubt that a potential employer is going to say "Hmm... this person went to a school that was ranked 4 spots ahead. Let's hire him/her because 41 is much better than 45".

The 10 year loan repayment forgiveness program is important to note because it makes the whole taking on debt at a non T14 school argument pointless. Well, it at least quiets it down.

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FunkyJD
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Re: Why all the hate towards American???

Postby FunkyJD » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:47 pm

gdane5 wrote:The 10 year loan repayment forgiveness program is important to note because it makes the whole taking on debt at a non T14 school argument pointless.

Yes, because you are guaranteed to get a qualifying public sector job.

gdane5 wrote:Well, it at least quiets it down.

The silence is deafening.

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gdane
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Re: Why all the hate towards American???

Postby gdane » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:51 pm

You dont have to be a jerkoff. I really dont get why so many people on here insist on being one.

For the record, being a jerkoff doesnt get your point across. It only makes you look like an idiot.

My point was that there are options and solutions to every problem out there. While getting the type of job that would allow one to qualify for loan forgiveness may be difficult, it is an option.

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FunkyJD
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Re: Why all the hate towards American???

Postby FunkyJD » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:54 pm

Thin-skinned, too. Have fun in law school. :P

For the record, I'm not trying to be a jerk. I just find some of your claims to be interesting. There's not really a good way to tell someone they're crazy.

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DeSilentio2728
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Re: Why all the hate towards American???

Postby DeSilentio2728 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:42 am

Posted this elsewhere:

By your logic, then paying full sticker at a law school like BC or BU would be a gamble just the same, as only 35% of BC or BU grads are going to end up in Big law (per http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf) whereas American is around 15%. Either way, according to your logic it is still a gamble, as you are making these decisions based upon percents. BC/BU are just better percents, but definitely not guarantees.

All I am saying, is that stating law school choices as gambles is a bad way of stating these decisions. Unfortunately, too many posters on tls keep advising perspective applicants that the choice of particular law schools is a gamble.

Post subject: Re: Need Help Choosing between American and Rutgers at Newark

If you notice on that chart, American had the 25th highest number of graduates entering Big Law upon graduation.

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Rocketman11
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Re: Why all the hate towards American???

Postby Rocketman11 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:37 am

FunkyJD wrote:
ATOIsp07 wrote:
2.) Regardless of the USNWR rankings, WCL has more lay prestige than GMU and actually has a pretty solid network within the DC area. Employers are probably more knowledgeable and respectful to American grads than GMUs. Take that as you will.

#2 seems pretty speculative to me, as well. The part in bold is especially shaky. Off the top of my head, I don't think most people in Fairfax County, where there is a decent legal market, would agree with you. And I don't think WCL is blowing Mason out of the water in DC. Where is this lay prestige advantage, then?


Definitely agree. These two schools are seen as on just about equal footing out here (I work in DC) - that is, equal but still dwarfed by GULC and GW. The advantage GMU has over AU, is that it is well known for being libertarian with an econ focus, so a Mason grad will get a leg up when applying for a handful of DCs think tanks and many Republican organizations versus an American grad (all else being equal, though admittedly the latter organizations aren't as substantial).

I can't speak as far as private practice advantages though.

globallawyer
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Re: Why all the hate towards American???

Postby globallawyer » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:03 pm

In terms of the "lay prestige" argument, if you look at peer review rankings, American ranks higher than GMU (American ranks 43rd, while GMU is 50). However, much like the USNR rankings, this isn't a huge difference, which to me, puts them about on par.
(http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... ws-pe.html) Peer rankings for anyone who is interested.

As someone who is a VA resident, I chose American over the much cheaper GMU mostly out of personal preference. I have no interest in Big Law and I'm very interested in the international scene, so for me, American is just a much better fit. Also, their clinical programs are ranked 2nd which is also very appealing since it gets you experience and a chance to network with real clients. (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... l-training)

For what it's worth, every WCL alum I've spoken to raves about the school and the amazing internship opportunities they experienced because of it.

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Rocketman11
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Re: Why all the hate towards American???

Postby Rocketman11 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:14 pm

globallawyer wrote:
For what it's worth, every WCL alum I've spoken to raves about the school and the amazing internship opportunities they experienced because of it.


My incredibly successful boss, a WCL alum, has nothing but bad things to say. I can only think of 1 other WCL alum (graduated around 06) that i've met professionally and when I asked her how she liked American her response was "eh it was law school." Hardly the zeal you have encountered, but such is the beast that is anecdotal evidence.

globallawyer
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Re: Why all the hate towards American???

Postby globallawyer » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:21 pm

Rocketman11 wrote:
globallawyer wrote:
My incredibly successful boss, a WCL alum, has nothing but bad things to say. I can only think of 1 other WCL alum (graduated around 06) that i've met professionally and when I asked her how she liked American her response was "eh it was law school." Hardly the zeal you have encountered, but such is the beast that is anecdotal evidence.



At least you're boss is "incredibly successful." I acknowledge that anecdotal evidence is highly subjective and depends on each person's individual experiences and shouldn't be the whole basis of one's decision. At every school you will probably find people who love it and hate it. After reading through all of the WCL debates on this site, I just thought I'd throw my two cents in. Your point is well taken.

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Rocketman11
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Re: Why all the hate towards American???

Postby Rocketman11 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:26 pm

globallawyer wrote:At least you're boss is "incredibly successful." I acknowledge that anecdotal evidence is highly subjective and depends on each person's individual experiences and shouldn't be the whole basis of one's decision. At every school you will probably find people who love it and hate it. After reading through all of the WCL debates on this site, I just thought I'd throw my two cents in. Your point is well taken.


Right just balancing things out!

I will note my boss isn't successful because of American. In my line of work (lobbying) you just need some sort of advanced degree, the most common of which is a JD. Doesn't matter where you get it from, because you advance through networking not from any sort of school prestige or that kind of thing.




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