Really? Maybe?

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stayway
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Really? Maybe?

Postby stayway » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:38 pm

Ok, as some of you may know from reading my threads, i have currently gotten accepted to some tier 2 schools - pitt(14k), Catholic(15k), Nova(??), PSU (10k). and waitlisted at GW, waiting for decision for WM and W&L (both probably auto rejections). My numbers are 159/3.33.

I took the LSAT twice and improved 1 point after studying like hell. some might question my efforts but IMHO i think i studied alot (from a testmasters course to all the PTs, LRB, LGB, etc). I was practicing in upper 160s and got pummeled on the real thing with two RCs - RC being my weakest.

It was my dream to go to a t14, but of course I have no shot.

My question is should I even consider taking the LSAT the 3rd time? I honestly have no idea how much I'll prove. I won't even have an accurate PT scores (because I took them once/twice) other than a few from 2010.

Should I take it again and reapply? Maybe I shouldn't even think about this and hope for the best with GW.

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horriblegb
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Re: Really? Maybe?

Postby horriblegb » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:42 pm

Well, from personal experience, this is exactly what happened to me (though, I screwed up the Logic Games, which is by far my strong point, so I was convinced that I could take it a third time and score much higher). I think you should just wait it out at this point, you have already applied, I would not worry about taking the LSAT again for next cycle; however, to get off the waitlist at GW, it may be a good idea, but only if you are confident that you will score better. Hope this helps

stayway
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Re: Really? Maybe?

Postby stayway » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:45 pm

maybe I should order a PT that i haven taken before like Dec 09 and just take it cold? Or take an oldass PT again? Because I've been far too separated from the LSAT since last september.

But the thought of prepping again for the LSAT is chilling.....and I'll be throwing out the 400 dollar ish application fee I spent.....

DukeHopeful
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Re: Really? Maybe?

Postby DukeHopeful » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:50 pm

I can empathize. I'm pretty sure I'm going to take the June test, just to see what happens. By then, I figure I'll have a solid idea of where I'm headed, and I'll roll the dice once more to see if I can break into the 170s. If somehow I break a 172-174, I may consider waiting and going through another cycle, as those points could be worth tens of thousands of dollars over three years. For less than $150, what could it hurt? I say just take it again, see how it goes, and make any decisions then if you have to.

stayway
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Re: Really? Maybe?

Postby stayway » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:58 pm

DukeHopeful wrote:I can empathize. I'm pretty sure I'm going to take the June test, just to see what happens. By then, I figure I'll have a solid idea of where I'm headed, and I'll roll the dice once more to see if I can break into the 170s. If somehow I break a 172-174, I may consider waiting and going through another cycle, as those points could be worth tens of thousands of dollars over three years. For less than $150, what could it hurt? I say just take it again, see how it goes, and make any decisions then if you have to.


i mean u do have a 169 and a 3.8

i think thats a little different than where i stand. I honestly don't know if its possible to study starting right now till june and be ready...maybe? sigh. i don't even know why i'm thinking of this again.

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foxyeconomist
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Re: Really? Maybe?

Postby foxyeconomist » Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:00 pm

I took the Kaplan Advanced Online course, which was amazing. So many full-length tests, pacing sections, and a focus on the tough questions. Even getting 2 more questions right per section will drastically improve your score. Also, I went from being able to solve 80% of the logic games section in about 45 minutes (which is useless) to acing it each time, sometimes in under 30 minutes. My instructors name was Devin, although I'm not sure you can see the instructors name when you sign up. It was a pricey class, but well worth it from my perspective. I improved my score by 12 points!

I'm sure other test prep companies offer something similar, but if you are shooting for a top school, I'd definitely recommend taking an advanced course, because they want you to be able to answer all questions correctly. They don't advise you to just skip questions, like regular classes.

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unknownscholar
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Re: Really? Maybe?

Postby unknownscholar » Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:02 pm

nooyyllib wrote:maybe I should order a PT that i haven taken before like Dec 09 and just take it cold? Or take an oldass PT again? Because I've been far too separated from the LSAT since last september.

But the thought of prepping again for the LSAT is chilling.....and I'll be throwing out the 400 dollar ish application fee I spent.....


I've taken it several times. Several. a few times before before an application cycle filled with ONLY autorejections from tier 1 through very low tier 3s. And a few times after. You'll be fine, if you decide to make the commitment. I say if you're certain you can do better and prefer to wait another year, go for it. and don't walk in the building to sit for another one until you've scored comfortably in your goal range. And even if you have an upward trend, as I do, be prepared to fight for a seat through the summer. I figure this is a very small price to pay for an excellent education once you've already proven to yourself that you're excellent legal education material.

It takes a lot of heart to put yourself back into that ring again. But it's a lot harder to sit and wonder "what if".

stayway
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Re: Really? Maybe?

Postby stayway » Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:03 pm

foxyeconomist wrote:I took the Kaplan Advanced Online course, which was amazing. So many full-length tests, pacing sections, and a focus on the tough questions. Even getting 2 more questions right per section will drastically improve your score. Also, I went from being able to solve 80% of the logic games section in about 45 minutes (which is useless) to acing it each time, sometimes in under 30 minutes. My instructors name was Devin, although I'm not sure you can see the instructors name when you sign up. It was a pricey class, but well worth it from my perspective. I improved my score by 12 points!

I'm sure other test prep companies offer something similar, but if you are shooting for a top school, I'd definitely recommend taking an advanced course, because they want you to be able to answer all questions correctly. They don't advise you to just skip questions, like regular classes.


are you trolling?

anyways. LG wasn't a big deal for me. I only had an issue with one of the games for my sept exam ended up getting -4 on LG. It's RC and LR that are killing me.

stayway
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Re: Really? Maybe?

Postby stayway » Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:15 pm

unknownscholar wrote:
nooyyllib wrote:maybe I should order a PT that i haven taken before like Dec 09 and just take it cold? Or take an oldass PT again? Because I've been far too separated from the LSAT since last september.

But the thought of prepping again for the LSAT is chilling.....and I'll be throwing out the 400 dollar ish application fee I spent.....


I've taken it several times. Several. a few times before before an application cycle filled with ONLY autorejections from tier 1 through very low tier 3s. And a few times after. You'll be fine, if you decide to make the commitment. I say if you're certain you can do better and prefer to wait another year, go for it. and don't walk in the building to sit for another one until you've scored comfortably in your goal range. And even if you have an upward trend, as I do, be prepared to fight for a seat through the summer. I figure this is a very small price to pay for an excellent education once you've already proven to yourself that you're excellent legal education material.

It takes a lot of heart to put yourself back into that ring again. But it's a lot harder to sit and wonder "what if".


how many times have you taken it? what were your results? I'm leaning towards maybe busting my ass till june 7th and taking that. I might not have anything to lose. if i dont score well, i'll still go to whatever school i paid my deposit to, if i score well, i'll be too happy to even care about the deposit.

and my schedule this semester (im still in UG) is perfect since I have four day weekends every week.

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unknownscholar
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Re: Really? Maybe?

Postby unknownscholar » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:01 pm

Again, several. I've climbed 10+ points.

I've taken the test many times because, to be quite frank, I was uninformed. And for no apparent reason other than the fact that I simply didn't seek out the best advice. Or the proper tools.

If you decide to retake, don't let it be because you hope you can do better. Get the proper tools you need to guarantee it.

You seem to have a very good idea about what it is you want to do with your law degree, so it seems to me that the only concern left should be where you think you can get the education you need to do what you want to do.
If it's at GW, fight for your seat. Now or later. If its a T14, start studying or plan for a transfer. If its a Tier 2, start packing.

Ask yourself if getting into GW makes a difference in whether or not you'll prepare again. You said you wanted a T14. What are you willing to do to get it? Could you give 100% at a tier 2?

There are multiple ways you can achieve your career goal; you've just gotta figure out which path you want. And stick with it. The good news is, you've got time on your side.

nitr0x99
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Re: Really? Maybe?

Postby nitr0x99 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:22 pm

I'm in the same boat as you...kinda


Took it the first time and got 159. I was disappointed because I thought I studied hard. Took it a second time and got a 160, but I have no one to blame except for myself because I didn't even study the second time around.

I feel like a big idiot and deserve whatever ridicule I get. I have a 15K/year scholarship at a T2, but it is contingent on top 35% in the class. A part of me wants to take the test over and really try my hardest, but on the same token, I don't know what I'd do for the next year and a half. I really don't wanna live with my parents that much longer =/

I can offer no advice, just someone to relate to. Regret is a horrible emotion. I was stupid and reckless and now I know that being disappointed with yourself is INFINITELY worse than having someone else disappointed in you. I never realized that before because I always managed to get by with good grades and never really had to worry about this kind of thing. If I had worked harder and put up with the temporary pain of studying more and working harder at the LSAT I would have been more successful, instead I have to live with the permanent pain of regret.

Sorry if I hijacked, I had to vent.

stayway
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Re: Really? Maybe?

Postby stayway » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:39 pm

nitr0x99 wrote:I'm in the same boat as you...kinda


Took it the first time and got 159. I was disappointed because I thought I studied hard. Took it a second time and got a 160, but I have no one to blame except for myself because I didn't even study the second time around.

I feel like a big idiot and deserve whatever ridicule I get. I have a 15K/year scholarship at a T2, but it is contingent on top 35% in the class. A part of me wants to take the test over and really try my hardest, but on the same token, I don't know what I'd do for the next year and a half. I really don't wanna live with my parents that much longer =/

I can offer no advice, just someone to relate to. Regret is a horrible emotion. I was stupid and reckless and now I know that being disappointed with yourself is INFINITELY worse than having someone else disappointed in you. I never realized that before because I always managed to get by with good grades and never really had to worry about this kind of thing. If I had worked harder and put up with the temporary pain of studying more and working harder at the LSAT I would have been more successful, instead I have to live with the permanent pain of regret.

Sorry if I hijacked, I had to vent.


dont worry, i can relate too. except i felt like i studied harder the 2nd time. I studied for almost over a year. the worst part was that my roommate who studied for 2 months or so did better than me.

to unknownscholar, if i get a spot for GW PT, I would be completely done.

stayway
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Re: Really? Maybe?

Postby stayway » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:47 pm

question:

one of my friends tell me taking it the third time isn't really helpful even if I improve substantially because my other two scores have been consistent (158,159). Is this true? Can anyone really say anything about it? What if I go up 10-13 pts the third time? (158,159,170(?)) would the two previous scores still overshadow my high score?

edit:

and even if this "if" scenario happened, would i have a stigma attached to my application the next cycle?

stayway
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Re: Really? Maybe?

Postby stayway » Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:32 am

could i use my recommendations i have on file with LSAC right now for the next cycle?

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Really? Maybe?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:46 am

nooyyllib wrote:
unknownscholar wrote:
nooyyllib wrote:maybe I should order a PT that i haven taken before like Dec 09 and just take it cold? Or take an oldass PT again? Because I've been far too separated from the LSAT since last september.

But the thought of prepping again for the LSAT is chilling.....and I'll be throwing out the 400 dollar ish application fee I spent.....


I've taken it several times. Several. a few times before before an application cycle filled with ONLY autorejections from tier 1 through very low tier 3s. And a few times after. You'll be fine, if you decide to make the commitment. I say if you're certain you can do better and prefer to wait another year, go for it. and don't walk in the building to sit for another one until you've scored comfortably in your goal range. And even if you have an upward trend, as I do, be prepared to fight for a seat through the summer. I figure this is a very small price to pay for an excellent education once you've already proven to yourself that you're excellent legal education material.

It takes a lot of heart to put yourself back into that ring again. But it's a lot harder to sit and wonder "what if".


how many times have you taken it? what were your results? I'm leaning towards maybe busting my ass till june 7th and taking that. I might not have anything to lose. if i dont score well, i'll still go to whatever school i paid my deposit to, if i score well, i'll be too happy to even care about the deposit.

and my schedule this semester (im still in UG) is perfect since I have four day weekends every week.


I decided to do this my last cycle (take in June and depending on how I do decide whether to reapply or not). I managed to improve by 8 points and had no problem in eating the seat deposits I had put down and money I had spent on applications. I say do this if you have the time to devote to studying; the possible pay-off is definitely worth the time and cost.

Even if you are short on material, you still can substantially improve your score. It's just going to take a lot of work. I'll try to find a thread on here that is helpful. If I can't find it, I'll take the time to write out some suggestions.

Edit: Here are some links.

On retaking on limited material: http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prel ... 343.0.html
On RC: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=72420
Last edited by Richie Tenenbaum on Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Really? Maybe?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:49 am

nooyyllib wrote:question:

one of my friends tell me taking it the third time isn't really helpful even if I improve substantially because my other two scores have been consistent (158,159). Is this true? Can anyone really say anything about it? What if I go up 10-13 pts the third time? (158,159,170(?)) would the two previous scores still overshadow my high score?

edit:

and even if this "if" scenario happened, would i have a stigma attached to my application the next cycle?

nooyyllib wrote:could i use my recommendations i have on file with LSAC right now for the next cycle?


I have three scores and while it isn't a positive by any means, I don't think it is killer. Schools have a huge inventive to take the highest score.

And you can use the same LORs.

stayway
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Re: Really? Maybe?

Postby stayway » Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:54 am

thank you so much i really appreciate it.

while i do have my last semester of college left, my schedule this semester allows me to have thurs and fridays off. leading me to have four day weekends every week. so i guess i have no excuse about not having time to study again.

it's been 5 months since i looked at a single LSAT question so i plan on getting up before my class tomorrow and taking the free june 07 diagnostic LSAC provides. of course it won't be an accurate reflection of where i stand by any means (since I took that test probably 3 times). it'll still give me an idea though.

any threads, advice, inputs, personal experience would be greatly appreciated.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Really? Maybe?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:04 am

nooyyllib wrote:thank you so much i really appreciate it.

while i do have my last semester of college left, my schedule this semester allows me to have thurs and fridays off. leading me to have four day weekends every week. so i guess i have no excuse about not having time to study again.

it's been 5 months since i looked at a single LSAT question so i plan on getting up before my class tomorrow and taking the free june 07 diagnostic LSAC provides. of course it won't be an accurate reflection of where i stand by any means (since I took that test probably 3 times). it'll still give me an idea though.

any threads, advice, inputs, personal experience would be greatly appreciated.


Added links to my above post.

Some additional advice: Even if you consider Games a strength, make sure you become near perfect on the section. Working through previously done LR questions and going over all missed answers and identifying why each is wrong and then why the correct answer is correct should help a lot. Same can be done with RC. You can also try to experiment with speed reading books (just don't make it a primary focus). Start reading the Scientific American and the economist on a consistent basis.

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Veritas
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Re: Really? Maybe?

Postby Veritas » Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:08 am

third time was the charm for me, went up 13 points.

YOU CAN DO IT!

stayway
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Re: Really? Maybe?

Postby stayway » Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:14 am

thanks.

i read bernie's post before. i'm also an LSD user. I actually wrote out the incorrect choices and wrote my own understandings and stuff. i guess i didnt really understand the 'why". i'm not sure if i can plow through all the PTs like i did for my 2nd exam. i think i'm going to look at the more recent ones.

veritas: it must be nice to be in your shoes.

i just looked at my sept 09 and found out i got 8/9/5/5 - LR/RC/LG/LR

the experimental RC really destroyed me. and the fourth game in LG.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Really? Maybe?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:36 am

nooyyllib wrote:thanks.

i read bernie's post before. i'm also an LSD user. I actually wrote out the incorrect choices and wrote my own understandings and stuff. i guess i didnt really understand the 'why". i'm not sure if i can plow through all the PTs like i did for my 2nd exam. i think i'm going to look at the more recent ones.

veritas: it must be nice to be in your shoes.

i just looked at my sept 09 and found out i got 8/9/5/5 - LR/RC/LG/LR

the experimental RC really destroyed me. and the fourth game in LG.


Try to have the mindset of you are explaining this question to someone else. Be able to point out why that wrong answer choice MUST be incorrect. Working as a tutor helped force me to do this with a ton of questions and got me from very good at LR to near perfect. Do this with an entire LR section. Do this with multiple LR sections. If you don't have the time or you don't find it as helpful, try just doing it with the last 10 Q's of each section. Also- Try doing the first 10 Qs in 10 minutes (as long as you're maintaining accuracy).




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