YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.
User avatar
CardinalRules
Posts: 2332
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:20 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby CardinalRules » Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:18 am

existenz wrote:
soullesswonder wrote:I lean towards the view that schools should take every student above both 75ths if they like them and that student clearly makes an effort beyond the minimum reqs of the app. In this case, I just don't believe that there are so many 75ths apps with specific reasons why they want to attend Michigan that the consequences of misjudging the yield would be that catastrophic.

It would be an interesting one-year experiment to see what happens. Would the school wind up with a much bigger class? Would they shoot up the USNWR rankings? Would it pretty much be a wash, and would only hurt yield?


I think that it depends on the school. Schools in beautiful locations or with special strengths in certain areas might be more able to attract a few more highly qualified applicants than one might suspect. The damage to the yield could be offset by a raised 25th-75th.

cavebat2000
Posts: 238
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:08 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby cavebat2000 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:19 am

TigerBeer wrote:Things that make me feel good:
1) OP getting rejected
2) OP being outraged about it

:lol: thanks for making my day


How can you express such happiness at this person's misfortune? Is there something wrong with you?

cavebat2000
Posts: 238
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:08 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby cavebat2000 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:23 am

scribelaw wrote:Just one more thing from LSN...From applicants with a 172-173 LSAT, there's a 56 percent acceptance rate for people with GPAs from 3.6 to 3.8.

But, there's a 75 percent acceptance rate for people with the same LSAT score and GPAs from 3.4 to 3.59.

I mean, come on. This is YP, plain and simple.


LOL @ people who think they deserve to get in while simultaneously thinking that upset waitlisted people are just assholes.

They YP'd.

/thread

User avatar
CardinalRules
Posts: 2332
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:20 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby CardinalRules » Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:23 am

cavebat2000 wrote:
TigerBeer wrote:Things that make me feel good:
1) OP getting rejected
2) OP being outraged about it

:lol: thanks for making my day


How can you express such happiness at this person's misfortune? Is there something wrong with you?


It's hard to feel too upset for someone with 5 top-8 acceptances, which means that he has Columbia or better waiting for him. To choose that name and entitle this thread as he did, in his circumstances, was a very poor piece of PR.

That said, the comment above did overcook it a bit.

User avatar
Unitas
Posts: 1387
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:03 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby Unitas » Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:25 am

It would be interesting to see how schools manage offers at any time, without the BS they say.

1. Do they have a set total number at a given time?

2. Do they have a set number for specifics ranges at a given time, say 175+ 3.8+ 100 offers, 172-175 3.6+ 200 offers, and so forth, based on statistical historical yields?

3. Do they just offer whoever they like? “Yale comes to mind, they just don’t like that many people”

I doubt very seriously it is number 3 at most top schools. Maybe one of the deans can come explain? They have to have a way to manage offers, it can't just be a free-for-all.

Oh, hi Cardinal. Did you become the victim of, what we refer to as, YP yet?

User avatar
soullesswonder
Posts: 553
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:36 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby soullesswonder » Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:33 am

Kakarot wrote:
Nah, I wasn't mad. I was trying to be funny. Perhaps it is because I have been up since 6 am working and should be in bed that it came across wrong. I apologize. I agree the process of getting WL'd for what appears to be no other reason then apathy on the adcomms part sucks, but I do see why they do it.

I do see your point also, but if they accept those students above the 75th they will most likely want money or otherwise will feel scorned, as seen in the chicago thread. I think the negativity brought about by YP is better then the negativity brought about by accepting then no money offers. Plus, with a YP students can express further interest and possibly get in. How many of those WL'd today would go without any money? I doubt any.


No harm done.

Yes, the students above the 75th will probably want money, but I think it's generally understood that scholarships are more hit-or-miss (the Chicago angst notwithstanding - I don't totally get it b/c Chicago never been known as generous). A YP presumes to know whether the applicant would actually attend, which I feel is a greater presumption than "we like you, but aren't going to go all out to get you." Plus, would it really be so bad if an applicant took the attitude, "I'm not going to ED to Mich, b/c I might get into Harvard, but if Mich offered 67k I'd decline Harvard"? Maybe the applicant wants Midwest Midlaw and doesn't want so much debt coming out of LS. The problem is that YP doesn't appear to allow for these situations. It almost seems to equate debt sensitivity to indifference about the schools.

PREEMPTIVE EDIT: My hypothetical applicant is not me - I freely admit that I did not submit a Why Michigan or take any active measures to avoid a potential YP

User avatar
CardinalRules
Posts: 2332
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:20 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby CardinalRules » Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:42 am

Kakarot wrote:
Oh, hi Cardinal. Did you become the victim of, what we refer to as, YP yet?


No, surprisingly; I thought that Penn might have pulled that trigger, but something must have stood out to them about my file.

EDIT: I should qualify the statement by mentioning that I withdrew from a couple of potential YP candidates before receiving a decision.

User avatar
Unitas
Posts: 1387
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:03 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby Unitas » Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:48 am

CardinalRules wrote:
Kakarot wrote:
Oh, hi Cardinal. Did you become the victim of, what we refer to as, YP yet?


No, surprisingly; I thought that Penn might have pulled that trigger, but something must have stood out to them about my file.


Kudos then. I thought most of MVP would YP you.

I dunno soullesswonder, I was one of those on 1/11 that was rejected from Michigan after being under review for two weeks with good numbers for them. Look at the red dots in the top right of their LSN, we were pretty much all rejected the same day all with good numbers for them. Strange stuff.

Honestly though, I doubt I would have ever even visited without a Darrow. Not that the school isn't great I just have never been to the state and really have no desire to ever go to it.

User avatar
CardinalRules
Posts: 2332
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:20 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby CardinalRules » Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:51 am

Kakarot wrote:
Honestly though, I doubt I would have ever even visited without a Darrow.


It sounds as though you have some soulmates in the Chicago thread. Just kidding. :D

For myself, I didn't apply to Michigan, so I can't offer any school-specific insight. Overall, though, it does seem as though YP works fairly effectively, and the vast majority of its victims do indeed have better options elsewhere (like OP).

User avatar
Unitas
Posts: 1387
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:03 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby Unitas » Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:56 am

CardinalRules wrote:
Kakarot wrote:
Honestly though, I doubt I would have ever even visited without a Darrow.


It sounds as though you have some soulmates in the Chicago thread. Just kidding. :D

For myself, I didn't apply to Michigan, so I can't offer any school-specific insight. Overall, though, it does seem as though YP works fairly effectively, and the vast majority of its victims do indeed have better options elsewhere (like OP).


I am not as bad as the Chicago people. I never complained or said I was owed anything. What a joke that was yesterday. :roll:

I was confused by the reject and still am. I didn't complain or knock their school over it though, but it was my fastest decision by far and for it to be an instant reject. It appears I didn't get to any review stages. I believe GeePee and me applied around the same day and he got WL'd today and I got rejected over a month and a half ago. How does that work? Our files should have been in the same spot with very similar numbers.

User avatar
CardinalRules
Posts: 2332
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:20 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby CardinalRules » Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:59 am

Kakarot wrote:
CardinalRules wrote:
Kakarot wrote:
Honestly though, I doubt I would have ever even visited without a Darrow.


It sounds as though you have some soulmates in the Chicago thread. Just kidding. :D

For myself, I didn't apply to Michigan, so I can't offer any school-specific insight. Overall, though, it does seem as though YP works fairly effectively, and the vast majority of its victims do indeed have better options elsewhere (like OP).


I am not as bad as the Chicago people. I never complained or said I was owed anything.

I was confused by the reject and still am. I didn't complain or knock their school over it though, but it was my fastest decision by far and for it to be an instant reject. It appears I didn't get to any review stages. I believe GeePee and me applied around the same day and he got WL'd today and I got rejected over a month and a half ago. How does that work? Our files should have been in the same spot with very similar numbers.


Some schools are practicing aggressive YP and dinging applicants who appear extremely overqualified. For example, Texas straight-up rejected a couple of people well above their 75ths (cf. CoalstoNewCastle).

User avatar
Shlonster
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:04 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby Shlonster » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:04 am

cavebat2000 wrote:
TigerBeer wrote:Things that make me feel good:
1) OP getting rejected
2) OP being outraged about it

:lol: thanks for making my day


How can you express such happiness at this person's misfortune? Is there something wrong with you?


With my fingers and a keyboard. And no.

User avatar
los blancos
Posts: 7119
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:18 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby los blancos » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:06 am

Helmholtz wrote:
sundevil77 wrote:I know OP came off as a self-entitled prick (especially with the name), but he states a valid point. I consider a TLSer like GeePee to be a pretty darn good applicant. He's got acceptances to many higher ranked schools so there is clearly nothing glaringly wrong with the application. He also wrote a Why Michigan and claims to have showed a lot of sincere interest in attending. He also doesn't come off as a douche in his posts. Nevertheless, he got a waitlist at Michigan. There's no question they're engaging in some type of YP.


So then what accounts for them taking people who have numbers like 176/3.95 and 177/3.8, who were both accepted on LSN? Do you think they just indiscriminately YP random people for the hell of it?


cost/benefit analysis? i.e., you're willing to sacrifice some yield for a shot at killer candidates but not slightly above average ones?

dunno, just talking out of my behind

r6_philly
Posts: 10707
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:32 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby r6_philly » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:06 am

Kakarot wrote:It would be interesting to see how schools manage offers at any time, without the BS they say.

1. Do they have a set total number at a given time?

2. Do they have a set number for specifics ranges at a given time, say 175+ 3.8+ 100 offers, 172-175 3.6+ 200 offers, and so forth, based on statistical historical yields?

3. Do they just offer whoever they like? “Yale comes to mind, they just don’t like that many people”

I doubt very seriously it is number 3 at most top schools. Maybe one of the deans can come explain? They have to have a way to manage offers, it can't just be a free-for-all.

Oh, hi Cardinal. Did you become the victim of, what we refer to as, YP yet?


I feel the most likely answer is a variation of #3 for most schools. But much complicated than just simply pick who they like. I feel like the more holistic schools would do the following

1. set number goals. So say they want to set the 25%, 75% and median numbers as goals for this year

2. set offer number goals. based on previous year yield, set an acceptable number of offers. This should be conservatively set incase yield incarease a lot.

3. auto admit. pick all the ED candidates and early candidates up to a certain percentage so they will ensure the average goals are likely to be met.

4. Start picking who you want. You can pick this based on any number of criterias (with or without consideration of LSAT/GPA).

5. Keeping an eye on the number goals. If you take someone who is below 25% but you must have, you will keep the number up by admitting the highest number candidate in waiting that is most likely to attend.

6 repeat #4-5

I think you set the target quite a bit higher than past year numbers because you will most likely lose the top end candidates more so than the low end. I don't think they have a specific number per score/gpa range but they want to keep the indicators high so the end result will not suffer (lower than expected numbers).

Now for WL. I they would likely to keep a number of super high score/GPA people in the WL. They will retain the option to use them later on to balance the class and keep the numbers up. But why do you not admit them right away?? If you admin, they may keep the acceptance but not attend later on. By putting them on the WL, they will either withdraw or send in LOCI to let you know that they will be available.

Now being on the WL can give you an early admission offer or a later one. If they finish picking who they really want out of the whole pool but still many seats left, they will give it to the highest numbered WL candidates. If they use up all alloted offers before getting to the WL, then they will only use the WL if someone withdraw an acceptance. This is obviously very random, depend on how the applicant pool shape out.

I could be totally far away from the truth, but I have managed many things and this seem like a reasonable way to manage admissions. If I was given the job, this is what I would do.

User avatar
Unemployed
Posts: 699
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:35 am

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby Unemployed » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:07 am

Helmholtz wrote:Actually of the people I named, one of them got no scholarship money and the other one only got $67,500. From the Michigan website:

If my numbers are above your medians and you don’t admit me, doesn't that mean that you're "yield protecting"? I.e., you didn't admit me because you're sure I wouldn't come?

Such questions deeply underestimate the confidence of this Admissions Office, which tends to assume that everyone who is admitted to Michigan Law will want to come to Michigan Law. Okay, okay, we know – not everyone comes, and people who are admitted to lots of other top law schools are the ones least likely to come. But if this yield-protection allegation were true, then we’d be implementing our nefarious plans very poorly; every year, the school with which we have the highest overlap for admitted candidates is Harvard. We never deny someone because we think, by virtue of their LSAT and GPA, that they will be unlikely to accept our offer of admission. Most people with high numbers will be offered admission – but it is also true that people with very strong numbers will often not be admitted. Like all top law schools, we simply receive far more applications from prospective students with high numbers than we could possibly admit – and we look at many, many factors apart from the numbers. No matter how strong a candidate you are numerically, it is worth putting effort into your application to ensure that you are portraying yourself as well as possible.


I have no sympathy for OP, but I think Michigan insults our intelligence with this drivel.

User avatar
soullesswonder
Posts: 553
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:36 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby soullesswonder » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:11 am

los blancos wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
sundevil77 wrote:I know OP came off as a self-entitled prick (especially with the name), but he states a valid point. I consider a TLSer like GeePee to be a pretty darn good applicant. He's got acceptances to many higher ranked schools so there is clearly nothing glaringly wrong with the application. He also wrote a Why Michigan and claims to have showed a lot of sincere interest in attending. He also doesn't come off as a douche in his posts. Nevertheless, he got a waitlist at Michigan. There's no question they're engaging in some type of YP.


So then what accounts for them taking people who have numbers like 176/3.95 and 177/3.8, who were both accepted on LSN? Do you think they just indiscriminately YP random people for the hell of it?


cost/benefit analysis? i.e., you're willing to sacrifice some yield for a shot at killer candidates but not slightly above average ones?

dunno, just talking out of my behind


Ironically, the 176/3.95 admit has already withdrawn.

r6_philly
Posts: 10707
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:32 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby r6_philly » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:12 am

It is probably a bad idea to admit someone who has 180/4.3, super briliant, but will make everyone else in his class feel like crap. Student morale is important. If you are head and shoulder above the rest of the applicants but you do NOT sound humble and full of humility you will probably be rejected. It isn't worth it to offend the rest of the students. I don't agree that you have to have a bad application to be rejected, maybe your applicant is just not good enough so they think that they will fit in.

Try to go get a job at McDonalds with a Ph.D and you will know what I mean. Over qualification is a real problem in the real world. Ok it doesn't have to be that extreme. Try applying for a job that requires 0-3 years of experience with 10+. You will not get call backs most likely. Management think that there are too many potential downsides. This is from personal experience.

Just another take on "YP". Maybe they *really* don't want you... because you are too good for them.

Amelie
Posts: 814
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:19 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby Amelie » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:13 am

.
Last edited by Amelie on Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
los blancos
Posts: 7119
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:18 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby los blancos » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:15 am

soullesswonder wrote:
los blancos wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
sundevil77 wrote:I know OP came off as a self-entitled prick (especially with the name), but he states a valid point. I consider a TLSer like GeePee to be a pretty darn good applicant. He's got acceptances to many higher ranked schools so there is clearly nothing glaringly wrong with the application. He also wrote a Why Michigan and claims to have showed a lot of sincere interest in attending. He also doesn't come off as a douche in his posts. Nevertheless, he got a waitlist at Michigan. There's no question they're engaging in some type of YP.


So then what accounts for them taking people who have numbers like 176/3.95 and 177/3.8, who were both accepted on LSN? Do you think they just indiscriminately YP random people for the hell of it?


cost/benefit analysis? i.e., you're willing to sacrifice some yield for a shot at killer candidates but not slightly above average ones?

dunno, just talking out of my behind


Ironically, the 176/3.95 admit has already withdrawn.


I understand the dook approach... PR anyone who doesn't write a Why Duke or seems genuinely interested in attending.

I just don't understand Michigan WLing people around or above both 75ths who seemingly would definitely have been interested in attending.
*shrug*

User avatar
soullesswonder
Posts: 553
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:36 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby soullesswonder » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:18 am

r6_philly wrote:It is probably a bad idea to admit someone who has 180/4.3, super briliant, but will make everyone else in his class feel like crap. Student morale is important. If you are head and shoulder above the rest of the applicants but you do NOT sound humble and full of humility you will probably be rejected. It isn't worth it to offend the rest of the students. I don't agree that you have to have a bad application to be rejected, maybe your applicant is just not good enough so they think that they will fit in.

Try to go get a job at McDonalds with a Ph.D and you will know what I mean. Over qualification is a real problem in the real world. Ok it doesn't have to be that extreme. Try applying for a job that requires 0-3 years of experience with 10+. You will not get call backs most likely. Management think that there are too many potential downsides. This is from personal experience.

Just another take on "YP". Maybe they *really* don't want you... because you are too good for them.


This goes against everything I've heard about the general quality of T14 students (based on the comments of 1Ls and 2Ls on this board). At that level, everybody's sharp and I doubt that even a genius (who isn't a complete douchebag) would be so potentially damaging to class morale as to prove a liability.

BuckNuts
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:37 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby BuckNuts » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:19 am

There is absolutely nothing more humorous than reading comments from a doucher who was held/waitlisted/rejected by m*ch*g*n profess his/her outright love for the school, only to get shit on by all the even bigger douchers who will actually be attending that ****hole. You all deserve one another. Go Bucks.
Last edited by BuckNuts on Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

r6_philly
Posts: 10707
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:32 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby r6_philly » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:23 am

soullesswonder wrote:
This goes against everything I've heard about the general quality of T14 students (based on the comments of 1Ls and 2Ls on this board). At that level, everybody's sharp and I doubt that even a genius (who isn't a complete douchebag) would be so potentially damaging to class morale as to prove a liability.


You may be right, this is just my humble observation of the world. Not a theory, observation on how things are run in the world. But T14 academic world may be different, I don't know. But at every school, college, university (non T14 quality though) I have worked at/with, this would be the sentiment of the faculty.

Add: I would consider T14 students to have more pride than others (look at this place), they would more likely to be stressed with being consistently outclassed by competition.

I have been involved in some really competitive enviornments (in the national level, non team-based), and it is the same there too. Competitive elite people don't generally like to lose all the time.
Last edited by r6_philly on Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:26 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Shlonster
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:04 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby Shlonster » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:25 am

BuckNuts wrote:There is absolutely nothing more humorous than reading comments from a doucher who was held/waitlisted/rejected by m*ch*g*n profuse his/her outright love for the school, only to get shit on by all the even bigger douchers who will actually be attending that ****hole. You all deserve one another. Go Bucks.


.... you really can't think of anything more humorous? I'm not impressed by your sad sense of humor.

Also, I hhaaaaaaaatte Terrelle Pryor.

NY88
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:36 pm

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby NY88 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:26 am

The dumbing down of Michigan continues. School is a rankings and affirmative action disgrace.

User avatar
cardnal124
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:31 am

Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby cardnal124 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:27 am

Yale just YP'd me. 155/2.5. I mean WTF?




Return to “Law School Acceptances, Denials, and Waitlists”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: acz26, Christinabruin, lawlawland16, Maaza, studyingeveryday and 21 guests