YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

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quickquestionthanks
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby quickquestionthanks » Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:38 pm

CardinalRules wrote:
quickquestionthanks wrote:This last page is a good example of why people don't being around lawyers. But at least we have each other. :D


One question, how would an admissions committee know who's who on the board? And if it's because you put a ton of personal info, why not remove it?


Some of us have stats that stand out a bit or information that we might mention from which one could infer something about our undergrad or perhaps extracurriculars. You can definitely edit posts or change information; a few people do fudge their LSN profiles for exactly that reason. But of course an alert Admissions Officer who was online at the right time might have noticed it before the TLSer has second thoughts and removes or edits it.



Meh. Sounds a little paranoid.

But you're right, it's a technical possibility, and if someone quotes you, you can't change it yourself.

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tomhobbes
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby tomhobbes » Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:45 pm

quickquestionthanks wrote:
CardinalRules wrote:
quickquestionthanks wrote:This last page is a good example of why people don't being around lawyers. But at least we have each other. :D


One question, how would an admissions committee know who's who on the board? And if it's because you put a ton of personal info, why not remove it?


Some of us have stats that stand out a bit or information that we might mention from which one could infer something about our undergrad or perhaps extracurriculars. You can definitely edit posts or change information; a few people do fudge their LSN profiles for exactly that reason. But of course an alert Admissions Officer who was online at the right time might have noticed it before the TLSer has second thoughts and removes or edits it.



Meh. Sounds a little paranoid.

But you're right, it's a technical possibility, and if someone quotes you, you can't change it yourself.


Yale's dean of admissions has specifically told us that it's easy to figure out who we are: http://blogs.law.yale.edu/blogs/admissi ... wered.aspx

I'm pretty easy to identify, but it doesn't bother me much. But for some people there is reason to be paranoid.

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soullesswonder
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby soullesswonder » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:14 pm

tomhobbes wrote:
quickquestionthanks wrote:
CardinalRules wrote:
quickquestionthanks wrote:This last page is a good example of why people don't being around lawyers. But at least we have each other. :D


One question, how would an admissions committee know who's who on the board? And if it's because you put a ton of personal info, why not remove it?


Some of us have stats that stand out a bit or information that we might mention from which one could infer something about our undergrad or perhaps extracurriculars. You can definitely edit posts or change information; a few people do fudge their LSN profiles for exactly that reason. But of course an alert Admissions Officer who was online at the right time might have noticed it before the TLSer has second thoughts and removes or edits it.



Meh. Sounds a little paranoid.

But you're right, it's a technical possibility, and if someone quotes you, you can't change it yourself.


Yale's dean of admissions has specifically told us that it's easy to figure out who we are: http://blogs.law.yale.edu/blogs/admissi ... wered.aspx

I'm pretty easy to identify, but it doesn't bother me much. But for some people there is reason to be paranoid.


Slightly off-topic, but Yale basically trashes your app for having a single typo? I've found typos in SCOTUS briefs before...

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Unitas
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby Unitas » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:17 pm

soullesswonder wrote:Slightly off-topic, but Yale basically trashes your app for having a single typo? I've found typos in SCOTUS briefs before...


Must not have been written by YLS graduates... :wink:

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bees
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby bees » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:28 pm

soullesswonder wrote:Slightly off-topic, but Yale basically trashes your app for having a single typo? I've found typos in SCOTUS briefs before...


Yeah that was pretty funny. Yale's sh*t doesn't stink. Not even a tiny bit.

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quickquestionthanks
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby quickquestionthanks » Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:01 pm

Slightly off-topic, but Yale basically trashes your app for having a single typo? I've found typos in SCOTUS briefs before...[/quote]

I would trash an app if I found a typo. You're applying to become a professional proofreader. This is where it counts.

That Asha interview was pretty cool, thanks for posting it. Still I think that they're the exception. I guess it matters if you have to numbers to apply to Yale :) not me!

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soullesswonder
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby soullesswonder » Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:19 pm

quickquestionthanks wrote:I would trash an app if I found a typo. You're applying to become a professional proofreader.


Ironic, considering Yale's reputation as a "big picture" place that focuses on theory instead of practice.

nsfor2010
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby nsfor2010 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:44 pm

mr.undroppable wrote:
Numbers are necessary, not sufficient. 25% of the class accepted at Michigan also has above 75th percentile scores and managed to avoid getting YP'ed. You're not that special.


Really man? I'll leave you to figure out the logical fallacy in that one.

I don't know who you are responding to but I purposefully made a point to show that I wasn't "slick" (again, really man?) enough for a Darrow.

Why bother responding if you're going to completely disregard what was actually said?

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soullesswonder
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby soullesswonder » Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:50 pm

nsfor2010 wrote:
mr.undroppable wrote:
Numbers are necessary, not sufficient. 25% of the class accepted at Michigan also has above 75th percentile scores and managed to avoid getting YP'ed. You're not that special.


Really man? I'll leave you to figure out the logical fallacy in that one.

I don't know who you are responding to but I purposefully made a point to show that I wasn't "slick" (again, really man?) enough for a Darrow.

Why bother responding if you're going to completely disregard what was actually said?


The inane statements from these apparently drive-by Michigan admits are starting to get a little bit insulting, esp. considering the topic of the thread.

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tomhobbes
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby tomhobbes » Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:59 pm

soullesswonder wrote:
nsfor2010 wrote:
mr.undroppable wrote:
Numbers are necessary, not sufficient. 25% of the class accepted at Michigan also has above 75th percentile scores and managed to avoid getting YP'ed. You're not that special.


Really man? I'll leave you to figure out the logical fallacy in that one.

I don't know who you are responding to but I purposefully made a point to show that I wasn't "slick" (again, really man?) enough for a Darrow.

Why bother responding if you're going to completely disregard what was actually said?


The inane statements from these apparently drive-by Michigan admits are starting to get a little bit insulting, esp. considering the topic of the thread.


Yeah, I'm getting sick of hearing Michigan admits say "this just proves that we're cooler than the rest of you. All of you are just numbers, we've got personality."

lakerfanimal
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby lakerfanimal » Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:04 pm

Lots of interesting stuff on this thread.. One thing I noticed when looking up users on LSN from the 2008-2009 cycle with numbers that one might predict would get yield predicted (3.6 to 3.8 and 171-173) is that those who submit their applications before December/January seem less likely to get wait-listed, so it seems like when the person submits their app is a decently sizable factor in whether they get "YP-ed" or not. A very small sample-size, but I feel like this wouldn't be an extreme conclusion.. I personally do think admissions officers might factor whether one would actually attend into offering admissions, but I think how much so is basically a mystery to all of us.

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beesknees
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby beesknees » Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:25 pm

I don't get why people who have been YPed from Michigan are so upset. You have awesome numbers and can probably enjoy CCN or at least one of the other upper T10.

I got WL at a school that I was above the 75%iles and actually was considering attending because of its location and because I thought I'd get $ (though I made the mistake to not include that special interest in my app).

Yes, it is annoying to see people on those threads to see my ding and say "hey, I was admitted with lower numbers so I must be more special or my softs were more amazing." But it doesn't matter because I still have great options. Also, people forget that the school's most profitable prospects are those kids who are just thrilled to be accepted because they are more than happy to pay sticker and are a safer bet to yield a seat deposit.

BenJ
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby BenJ » Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:28 pm

lakerfanimal wrote:Lots of interesting stuff on this thread.. One thing I noticed when looking up users on LSN from the 2008-2009 cycle with numbers that one might predict would get yield predicted (3.6 to 3.8 and 171-173) is that those who submit their applications before December/January seem less likely to get wait-listed, so it seems like when the person submits their app is a decently sizable factor in whether they get "YP-ed" or not. A very small sample-size, but I feel like this wouldn't be an extreme conclusion.. I personally do think admissions officers might factor whether one would actually attend into offering admissions, but I think how much so is basically a mystery to all of us.


Some of this has to do with the Darrows. People who get Darrows and half-Darrows are much more likely to attend. But in order to be invited to apply for the Darrow, you have to be admitted by early January, when the invites go out. So post-December LSAT applicants will never be considered for the Darrow, which means they're much less likely to attend if they have numbers above Michigan's usual range. Michigan might not YP early applicants because it wants them to apply for and get Darrows, but once the Darrows are gone, they're not going to matriculate the vast majority of the >75th applicants.

I don't find YP particularly upsetting and don't understand why people get annoyed about it. Talk about a fragile ego...

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beesknees
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby beesknees » Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:30 pm

BenJ wrote:
lakerfanimal wrote:Lots of interesting stuff on this thread.. One thing I noticed when looking up users on LSN from the 2008-2009 cycle with numbers that one might predict would get yield predicted (3.6 to 3.8 and 171-173) is that those who submit their applications before December/January seem less likely to get wait-listed, so it seems like when the person submits their app is a decently sizable factor in whether they get "YP-ed" or not. A very small sample-size, but I feel like this wouldn't be an extreme conclusion.. I personally do think admissions officers might factor whether one would actually attend into offering admissions, but I think how much so is basically a mystery to all of us.


Some of this has to do with the Darrows. People who get Darrows and half-Darrows are much more likely to attend. But in order to be invited to apply for the Darrow, you have to be admitted by early January, when the invites go out. So post-December LSAT applicants will never be considered for the Darrow, which means they're much less likely to attend if they have numbers above Michigan's usual range. Michigan might not YP early applicants because it wants them to apply for and get Darrows, but once the Darrows are gone, they're not going to matriculate the vast majority of the >75th applicants.

I don't find YP particularly upsetting and don't understand why people get annoyed about it. Talk about a fragile ego...


This seems like a very reasonable explanation.

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soullesswonder
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby soullesswonder » Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:39 pm

BenJ wrote:
I don't find YP particularly upsetting and don't understand why people get annoyed about it. Talk about a fragile ego...


It's got nothing to do with ego and everything to do with perverse incentives. One of my friends was slightly disappointed by the 172 he got this weekend and I was able to cheer him up by showing him LSN graphs and telling him that a higher score would have given him more trouble with Virginia (one of his preferred schools), while my friend isn't really gunning for YSCCN and has only lukewarm enthusiasm for Harvard. It's very irritating to be stereotyped as a prestige whore and a BigLaw wannabe from the beginning, but that's what YP does.
Last edited by soullesswonder on Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unemployed
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby Unemployed » Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:46 pm

I don't care that schools YP. I am just annoyed that Michigan's rep denies the practice.

The truth is, numerically overqualified applicants are held to a higher standard of subjective review. So yes, two similarly overqualified applicants may end up with a Darrow and a waitlist, but that doesn't mean the latter's application was in any way defective. It just wasn't stellar enough. If that same applicant had ballpark numbers instead of 75+%, he would have had a better chance.

To pretend otherwise is... that's just flat out lying.

gobucks8284
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby gobucks8284 » Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:34 am

Part of the problem is the disconnect between the realities of modern admissions for adcomms and the expected etiquette for applicants: they play a game against each other while we're expected to sit around and wait.

I applied to seven schools, only four of which I had the remotest interest in attending. It would have been outrageous for me to tell Virginia the truth: unless I get into Yale, I'll go to your law school assuming you give me a low-debt option. Instead, I had to write a "Why Virginia?" essay, pester the admissions committee with assurances of my "interest" and apply to "safety" schools.

And reading this thread makes me hate Michigan even more.

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bighead715
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby bighead715 » Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:58 am

quit bitching dbags - no one cares

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soullesswonder
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby soullesswonder » Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:44 am

bighead715 wrote:quit bitching dbags - no one cares


I haven't been this impressed with a school's admitted students since the Yalies hijacked Cleareyes' Harvard 1L questions thread. :roll: :roll:

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Shlonster
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby Shlonster » Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:55 am

soullesswonder wrote:
bighead715 wrote:quit bitching dbags - no one cares


I haven't been this impressed with a school's admitted students since the Yalies hijacked Cleareyes' Harvard 1L questions thread. :roll: :roll:



How do we know that he is an admit? I looked through his posts.... but maybe I'm missing something. Annoying and an obvious lover of Mich, but I don't see that he is in. And there's no reason to be so condescending, unless you count "he did it first" as a reason.

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im_blue
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby im_blue » Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:58 am

soullesswonder wrote:
BenJ wrote:
I don't find YP particularly upsetting and don't understand why people get annoyed about it. Talk about a fragile ego...


It's got nothing to do with ego and everything to do with perverse incentives. One of my friends was slightly disappointed by the 172 he got this weekend and I was able to cheer him up by showing him LSN graphs and telling him that a higher score would have given him more trouble with Virginia (one of his preferred schools), while my friend isn't really gunning for YSCCN and has only lukewarm enthusiasm for Harvard. It's very irritating to be stereotyped as a prestige whore and a BigLaw wannabe from the beginning, but that's what YP does.


171-173 is prime YP territory for UVA. Your friend would be much better off with a 3.5-3.84/170 than getting 1-3 pts higher.

louboutin
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby louboutin » Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:06 am

im_blue wrote:
soullesswonder wrote:
BenJ wrote:
I don't find YP particularly upsetting and don't understand why people get annoyed about it. Talk about a fragile ego...


It's got nothing to do with ego and everything to do with perverse incentives. One of my friends was slightly disappointed by the 172 he got this weekend and I was able to cheer him up by showing him LSN graphs and telling him that a higher score would have given him more trouble with Virginia (one of his preferred schools), while my friend isn't really gunning for YSCCN and has only lukewarm enthusiasm for Harvard. It's very irritating to be stereotyped as a prestige whore and a BigLaw wannabe from the beginning, but that's what YP does.


171-173 is prime YP territory for UVA. Your friend would be much better off with a 3.5-3.84/170 than getting 1-3 pts higher.


I got a 172 on the LSAT and I have found it to be kind of irritating. I wish I had done much better, or gotten a 170. I feel like I'm getting shut out of MVP because of it, when those are actually schools I'd be pretty happy to attend.
This is NOT to say that I am unhappy with my score... I'm glad I did well, and I have some good acceptances.
It just would have been nice if Michigan hadn't WL me. Boo.

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im_blue
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby im_blue » Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:10 am

louboutin wrote:
im_blue wrote:
soullesswonder wrote:
BenJ wrote:
I don't find YP particularly upsetting and don't understand why people get annoyed about it. Talk about a fragile ego...


It's got nothing to do with ego and everything to do with perverse incentives. One of my friends was slightly disappointed by the 172 he got this weekend and I was able to cheer him up by showing him LSN graphs and telling him that a higher score would have given him more trouble with Virginia (one of his preferred schools), while my friend isn't really gunning for YSCCN and has only lukewarm enthusiasm for Harvard. It's very irritating to be stereotyped as a prestige whore and a BigLaw wannabe from the beginning, but that's what YP does.


171-173 is prime YP territory for UVA. Your friend would be much better off with a 3.5-3.84/170 than getting 1-3 pts higher.


I got a 172 on the LSAT and I have found it to be kind of irritating. I wish I had done much better, or gotten a 170. I feel like I'm getting shut out of MVP because of it, when those are actually schools I'd be pretty happy to attend.
This is NOT to say that I am unhappy with my score... I'm glad I did well, and I have some good acceptances.
It just would have been nice if Michigan hadn't WL me. Boo.

If it's any consolation to you, NYU will happily take your 172 as long as you have a decent GPA (3.5+).

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Shlonster
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby Shlonster » Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:16 am

Here is an honest question I'm almost embarrassed to be asking, considering how much I've talked about it. Is yield even part of the equation used in the rankings? I did a quick search for what goes into the formula, and found one article mentioning they quit using it in '03 (I think this was for UG, though.... not sure if the formula is the same), and everything else I saw didn't list it period.

So, from what I can tell, yield does not play a role in determining a schools ranking. I have always assumed that when people cried YP, a school would do it keep their yield high, boost rating, ???, profit. This doesn't seem to be true - it doesn't mean that they don't YP, it just doesn't help me understand why they bother to YP.

Does anyone have any more knowledge on this? Should I just be searching the forum? Is this an annoying question?

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Reinhardt
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Re: YP at Michigan is DISGUSTING

Postby Reinhardt » Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:19 am

"Yield" is not actually in the ranking, but it is directly related to "acceptance rate," and that is part of the ranking.




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