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Aberzombie1892 wrote:I'm surprised that you never rebutted one of my earlier assumptions.

UM=UF in big law placement (in 2005).

Neither one of them has shifted much, rank wise, so there is no reason to assume they have not moved in step with each other since then (with FSU placing half as many as them).

Since that is a fact, isn't everything that you are saying just an assumption that UF is better?

True 10 more employers come to UF, but that doesn't result in better employment outcomes.

Isn't better employment outcomes the entire point of having more employers show up?

But honestly, someone here is being far too sensitive about something that they apparently know relatively little about.

(here's a hint, it's not jerzgrl630)

Lomax wrote:

Aberzombie1892 wrote:I'm surprised that you never rebutted one of my earlier assumptions.

UM=UF in big law placement (in 2005).

Neither one of them has shifted much, rank wise, so there is no reason to assume they have not moved in step with each other since then (with FSU placing half as many as them).

Since that is a fact, isn't everything that you are saying just an assumption that UF is better?

True 10 more employers come to UF, but that doesn't result in better employment outcomes.

Isn't better employment outcomes the entire point of having more employers show up?

But honestly, someone here is being far too sensitive about something that they apparently know relatively little about.

(here's a hint, it's not jerzgrl630)

I don't have evidence to refute your assumption that UM=UF in big law placement in 2005, so I won't. My evidence and the testimony of others shows that UF > UM in overall job placement throughout Florida now and in the past. That, I feel, is more important than big law placement.

What you still seem to be missing - what you just ignored - is that 10 more employers at OCI for UF over UM this year meant one-third more apparently interested in UF than in UM. That correlates with employment outcomes.

I am not sensitive about this topic. I am sensitive to people parading their entirely baseless opinions around as qualified ones in the faces of people making serious decisions. I am also sensitive to people making personal attacks on me for trying honestly to argue facts with reason, like this troll, spearnreel, who I have seen respond to my posts only 3 or 4 times, on each occasion with flames, and, to a somewhat lesser extent, like jerzgrl630.

DallasCowboy wrote:Stetson is not as good as UF and costs double with 12 OCI's last year. UM is not as good as UF and costs double. FSU may or may not be, depending if you want to work in the government. Whoever got into UF but is going to Stetson for personal reasons, don't. Is this thread serious?

Sky'stheLimit wrote:More like, UMs pull is limited to the South FL market, but powerful (they produced 30 firms, compared to FL who only did 10 more, but probably drawing Tampa, Orlando, and Jacksonville firms in addition to South FL).

adh07d wrote:

DallasCowboy wrote:Stetson is not as good as UF and costs double with 12 OCI's last year. UM is not as good as UF and costs double. FSU may or may not be, depending if you want to work in the government. Whoever got into UF but is going to Stetson for personal reasons, don't. Is this thread serious?

Read the OP again, you're answering the wrong question.

Sky'stheLimit wrote:More like, UMs pull is limited to the South FL market, but powerful (they produced 30 firms, compared to FL who only did 10 more, but probably drawing Tampa, Orlando, and Jacksonville firms in addition to South FL).

Lomax wrote:In other words, UM's pull is weaker than UF's. UM's doesn't extend much past its source in South Florida, while UF's extends down from Gainesville to include South Florida as well to-be-expected Central Florida. Why is UM's pull weaker than UF's? Because it isn't as well recognized and respected throughout the state and/or doesn't have as good of an alumni base. UM produced only 2 more Miami firms for OCI than UF did, by the way.

You know, I'm getting really tired of this. No judge, eternally silent jury, no contingent fee, opposing counsels who act like they bribed their ways onto the bar - I think I'm just gonna call it quits and let rad law hold fort.

spearnreel wrote:

Lomax wrote:My panties are never in a bunch. Everyone else's are.

Lomax wrote:
What you still seem to be missing - what you just ignored - is that 10 more employers at OCI for UF over UM this year meant one-third more apparently interested in UF than in UM. That correlates with employment outcomes.

I am not sensitive about this topic. I am sensitive to people parading their entirely baseless opinions around as qualified ones in the faces of people making serious decisions. I am also sensitive to people making personal attacks on me for trying honestly to argue facts with reason, like this troll, spearnreel, who I have seen respond to my posts only 3 or 4 times, on each occasion with flames, and, to a somewhat lesser extent, like jerzgrl630.

Lomax wrote:

Aberzombie1892 wrote:I'm surprised that you never rebutted one of my earlier assumptions.

UM=UF in big law placement (in 2005).

Neither one of them has shifted much, rank wise, so there is no reason to assume they have not moved in step with each other since then (with FSU placing half as many as them).

Since that is a fact, isn't everything that you are saying just an assumption that UF is better?

True 10 more employers come to UF, but that doesn't result in better employment outcomes.

Isn't better employment outcomes the entire point of having more employers show up?

But honestly, someone here is being far too sensitive about something that they apparently know relatively little about.

(here's a hint, it's not jerzgrl630)

I don't have evidence to refute your assumption that UM=UF in big law placement in 2005, so I won't. My evidence and the testimony of others shows that UF > UM in overall job placement throughout Florida now and in the past. That, I feel, is more important than big law placement.

What you still seem to be missing - what you just ignored - is that 10 more employers at OCI for UF over UM this year meant one-third more apparently interested in UF than in UM. That correlates with employment outcomes.

I am not sensitive about this topic. I am sensitive to people parading their entirely baseless opinions around as qualified ones in the faces of people making serious decisions. I am also sensitive to people making personal attacks on me for trying honestly to argue facts with reason, like this troll, spearnreel, who I have seen respond to my posts only 3 or 4 times, on each occasion with flames, and, to a somewhat lesser extent, like jerzgrl630.

Aberzombie1892 wrote:True 10 more employers come to UF, but that doesn't result in better employment outcomes.

DallasCowboy wrote:None of them ITE

From what I hear from my law school friends here (UF): nobody has jobs

Lomax wrote:

Sky'stheLimit wrote:More like, UMs pull is limited to the South FL market, but powerful (they produced 30 firms, compared to FL who only did 10 more, but probably drawing Tampa, Orlando, and Jacksonville firms in addition to South FL).

In other words, UM's pull is weaker than UF's. UM's doesn't extend much past its source in South Florida, while UF's extends down from Gainesville to include South Florida as well to-be-expected Central Florida. Why is UM's pull weaker than UF's? Because it isn't as well recognized and respected throughout the state and/or doesn't have as good of an alumni base. UM produced only 2 more Miami firms for OCI than UF did, by the way.

You know, I'm getting really tired of this. No judge, eternally silent jury, no contingent fee, opposing counsels who act like they bribed their ways onto the bar - I think I'm just gonna call it quits and let rad law hold fort.

Lomax wrote:

Aberzombie1892 wrote:I'm surprised that you never rebutted one of my earlier assumptions.

UM=UF in big law placement (in 2005).

Neither one of them has shifted much, rank wise, so there is no reason to assume they have not moved in step with each other since then (with FSU placing half as many as them).

Since that is a fact, isn't everything that you are saying just an assumption that UF is better?

True 10 more employers come to UF, but that doesn't result in better employment outcomes.

Isn't better employment outcomes the entire point of having more employers show up?

But honestly, someone here is being far too sensitive about something that they apparently know relatively little about.

(here's a hint, it's not jerzgrl630)

I don't have evidence to refute your assumption that UM=UF in big law placement in 2005, so I won't. My evidence and the testimony of others shows that UF > UM in overall job placement throughout Florida now and in the past. That, I feel, is more important than big law placement.

What you still seem to be missing - what you just ignored - is that 10 more employers at OCI for UF over UM this year meant one-third more apparently interested in UF than in UM. That correlates with employment outcomes.

I am not sensitive about this topic. I am sensitive to people parading their entirely baseless opinions around as qualified ones in the faces of people making serious decisions. I am also sensitive to people making personal attacks on me for trying honestly to argue facts with reason, like this troll, spearnreel, who I have seen respond to my posts only 3 or 4 times, on each occasion with flames, and, to a somewhat lesser extent, like jerzgrl630.

GatorStudent wrote: In the interest of full disclosure, I saw a study a few years ago showing that Miami actually had more national/regional reach than UF. It was a fairly comprehensive study too, IIRC. (However, this could be more due to the fact that those who go to UM are more willing to move to big cities and other regions, whereas UF grads tend to stay in Florida.)

ram jam wrote:It is all this simple... People that cannot get accepted to Florida Law, go to FSU Law. People that cannot get accepted to FSU Law, go to Miami law or stetson, unless they are debt averse, in which case, they will go to FIU law. Florida law school applicants also have the fallback position of NOVA, if shit really hits the fan.

About the NALP. The employment data is great for an overview. However, I have worked for two large size Florida law firms that hire extensively from UF, and neither of these law firms are listed in any of that data. I can say with confidence that the information gathered for those stats are given voluntarily and passively. That data does not represent even 50% of all hiring firms from Florida Law schools.

Drew2010 wrote:

ram jam wrote:It is all this simple... People that cannot get accepted to Florida Law, go to FSU Law. People that cannot get accepted to FSU Law, go to Miami law or stetson, unless they are debt averse, in which case, they will go to FIU law. Florida law school applicants also have the fallback position of NOVA, if shit really hits the fan.

About the NALP. The employment data is great for an overview. However, I have worked for two large size Florida law firms that hire extensively from UF, and neither of these law firms are listed in any of that data. I can say with confidence that the information gathered for those stats are given voluntarily and passively. That data does not represent even 50% of all hiring firms from Florida Law schools.

Is it really that simple? I'm pretty confident I could get accepted to every school in Florida, and I would probably choose Miami over both UF and FSU.

ram jam wrote:

Drew2010 wrote:

ram jam wrote:It is all this simple... People that cannot get accepted to Florida Law, go to FSU Law. People that cannot get accepted to FSU Law, go to Miami law or stetson, unless they are debt averse, in which case, they will go to FIU law. Florida law school applicants also have the fallback position of NOVA, if shit really hits the fan.

About the NALP. The employment data is great for an overview. However, I have worked for two large size Florida law firms that hire extensively from UF, and neither of these law firms are listed in any of that data. I can say with confidence that the information gathered for those stats are given voluntarily and passively. That data does not represent even 50% of all hiring firms from Florida Law schools.

Is it really that simple? I'm pretty confident I could get accepted to every school in Florida, and I would probably choose Miami over both UF and FSU.

Are you from/live in Florida?

Lomax wrote:

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Gosh don't get you panties in a bunch.

Well if that is the case why don't people take Fordham over Cornell? It has more employers at OCI...That conclusion would follow your reasoning. Heck why not replace Cornell with Fordham in the T14?

My panties are never in a bunch. Everyone else's are.

Fordham graduating class: around 500 students. Cornell's graduating class: around 200 students. Fewer students = fewer interviewers. Get it?

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Let's say it made a difference, and you were right. Do you think 10 firms/offices really makes a difference? No.

I am right, and 10 firms does make a difference. Why? Because in this case, 10 firms equates to a third more interviewers than UM. A third more employers are interested in UF grads than in UM grads, at least enough to send reps on campus. It isn't that much of a stretch to say that that can probably be extrapolated to a reasonable degree to the market as a whole.

jerzgrl630 wrote:Sorry, this thread was too amusing for me to stay out of it. Lomax, I know this is hard to believe but just because an employer does OCI on a campus doesn't mean they have to hire anyone from that school. This is why it's called an interview process. A firm can do OCI on 5 campuses, interview 20 candidates, and only have spots for 2 summer associates. While the number of firms doing OCI is definitely important to consider, the difference between UF and UM is kind of marginal when you consider the slaughter that is the Florida legal market.

REALLY?! I NEVER would have guessed! But... But... Wait! That doesn't mean that firms aren't showing making a special statement of interest in a school and at least giving its students exclusive preference/opportunity to secure a job by choosing to do OCI at that school and not do OCI at the others, does it, jerzgrl630? But I really wouldn't know about that myself - after all I'm just an ignoramus that you can jump into a thread you know nothing about and talk down to on a topic you haven't actually fully considered, aren't I? A third is a difference that could hardly be described as "kind of marginal". "The slaughter that is the Florida legal market" forces one to consider his or her choice of law school even more carefully, as competition for jobs is greater and things like school prestige, OCI, and alumni base might come into play more than ever before. Next time you find a thread too amusing for you to stay out of it, jerzgrl360, perhaps you should either take the time to really see what's going on, or think twice and stay out.

Aberzombie1892 wrote:You are a hardcore UF guy and that's fine. But just because you feel strongly about the school doesn't mean that you should knock it's rival UM.

I'm really not. I just see a lot of people holding completely baseless "opinions" on this matter, and I see those same individuals spitting out so many logical fallacies at the peril of others who are innocently trying to make their law school decision that I feel obligated to respond. I have nothing against UM, FSU, Stetson, etc., or anyone wishing to go to any of those schools. I just wish that people choosing to go to those other schools over UF would be fully informed of the disadvantageous position they are likely putting themselves in as a result. I have taken it upon myself to inform them here. Others, such as yourself, ill-advisably throw around worthless "opinions" to the contrary, usually formulated after a quick glance at the TLS profile pages and a mental picture of South Beach. By doing so, you help no-one and only confuse the honest and needy.

jerzgrl630 wrote: Calling UF prestigious is like saying that Chili's is fine dining.

Drew2010 wrote:

jerzgrl630 wrote: Calling UF prestigious is like saying that Chili's is fine dining.

From a national perspective that is probably somewhat true. However, when you view UF, Miami, and to a lesser extent FSU in the context of Florida, they are pretty prestigious schools, and are looked upon pretty favorably.

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
That's true, but I wasn't going to touch that amid a sea apparently of hardcore UF people.

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
To be honest, I don't know where people received the notion that UM doesn't have pull beyond south Florida. That doesn't even make any sense to begin with. Heck fewer UM people stay instate versus UF.

ram jam wrote:
Does anyone dare make an inference as to what the USNWR ranking will be this year concerning UF v. FSU? think FSU will surpass UF? Thoughts...

ram jam wrote:Chili is not fine dining? j/k

Does anyone dare make an inference as to what the USNWR ranking will be this year concerning UF v. FSU? think FSU will surpass UF? Thoughts...