Which Florida Law school to go to? Forum

[Mickey Quicknumbers]

ITT: Lomax debates the strengths and weakness of Florida law schools with....himself. Vanity, my favorite sin of them all

because your input is definitely unbiased Gatortim. Granted, I am currently hating Lomax from the FSU library, but that's beside the point.

[Lomax]

ITT: Lomax debates the strengths and weakness of Florida law schools with....himself. Vanity, my favorite sin of them all

Yes, that's basically what it devolved into, because an unbelievably large number of people here seem entirely incapable of simply saying, "oh, yeah, that does sound about right" when reasonable and well-thought out points are made and presented to them. Not only have I had to respond to serious arguments, but I have also had to respond to nonsensical personal attacks that come out of nowhere for no good reason. Vanity? As I have alluded to repeatedly, all I have been trying to do here is preserve a measure of objectivity amidst a flurry of baseless "opinions" that, for whatever reason, people have been posting to throw individuals seriously trying to make a decision on which Florida law school to attend off. And you call me "vain". Why not call me "genuinely helpful" instead, because to anybody not trolling this thread simply to find another opportunity to launch a personal attack over the internet, that's probably what I am. However, objectively speaking, it doesn't actually appear as though there are many people (other than, potentially, guests or other lurkers) at all watching this thread for any reason other than to pick a fight.

Granted, I am currently hating Lomax from the FSU library, but that's beside the point.

Case in point. I don't even know this guy, and simply for my standing up for my purely objective position on which Florida law school is generally the best to attend, he's talking about hating me. Ridiculous.

You know, when I first started posting here, I really did think that productive discussion to reach some agreement where hard facts allow for agreement to be reached would be possible. Adults, law students, right?

[darknightbegins]

ITT: Lomax debates the strengths and weakness of Florida law schools with....himself. Vanity, my favorite sin of them all

Yes, that's basically what it devolved into, because an unbelievably large number of people here seem entirely incapable of simply saying, "oh, yeah, that does sound about right" when reasonable and well-thought out points are made and presented to them. Not only have I had to respond to serious arguments, but I have also had to respond to nonsensical personal attacks that come out of nowhere for no good reason. Vanity? As I have alluded to repeatedly, all I have been trying to do here is preserve a measure of objectivity amidst a flurry of baseless "opinions" that, for whatever reason, people have been posting to throw individuals seriously trying to make a decision on which Florida law school to attend off. And you call me "vain". Why not call me "genuinely helpful" instead, because to anybody not trolling this thread simply to find another opportunity to launch a personal attack over the internet, that's probably what I am. However, objectively speaking, it doesn't actually appear as though there are many people (other than, potentially, guests or other lurkers) at all watching this thread for any reason other than to pick a fight.

Granted, I am currently hating Lomax from the FSU library, but that's beside the point.

Case in point. I don't even know this guy, and simply for my standing up for my purely objective position on which Florida law school is generally the best to attend, he's talking about hating me. Ridiculous.

You know, when I first started posting here, I really did think that productive discussion to reach some agreement where hard facts allow for agreement to be reached would be possible. Adults, law students, right?

No one should be launching a personal attack at you. You have a position and are passionate about it, doesn't make you a bad person. You just defend the Gators tooth and nail to a degree I haven't seen other posters defend other schools in similar situations. Doesn't make you bad but I think it opens you up to at least be poked at by a few us.

As for hating you from the FSU library...I have no idea what that is about.

[DallasCowboy]

I just went through Holland & Knight's Tampa attorneys. Of the 65, over half were UF law, 3 were FSU, 5 were Stetson, and 0 were from the U.

[98234872348]

I just went through Holland & Knight's Tampa attorneys. Of the 65, over half were UF law, 3 were FSU, 5 were Stetson, and 0 were from the U.

TBF, the president of HK is a UF grad.

The other Biglaw firms in Fl have more diverse constitutions.

[GATORTIM]

ITT: Lomax debates the strengths and weakness of Florida law schools with....himself. Vanity, my favorite sin of them all

Yes, that's basically what it devolved into, because an unbelievably large number of people here seem entirely incapable of simply saying, "oh, yeah, that does sound about right" when reasonable and well-thought out points are made and presented to them. Not only have I had to respond to serious arguments, but I have also had to respond to nonsensical personal attacks that come out of nowhere for no good reason. Vanity? As I have alluded to repeatedly, all I have been trying to do here is preserve a measure of objectivity amidst a flurry of baseless "opinions" that, for whatever reason, people have been posting to throw individuals seriously trying to make a decision on which Florida law school to attend off. And you call me "vain". Why not call me "genuinely helpful" instead, because to anybody not trolling this thread simply to find another opportunity to launch a personal attack over the internet, that's probably what I am. However, objectively speaking, it doesn't actually appear as though there are many people (other than, potentially, guests or other lurkers) at all watching this thread for any reason other than to pick a fight.

Bro, the vanity comment was alluding to the movie in your 'tar, nothing more....

[GatorStudent]

No one should be launching a personal attack at you. You have a position and are passionate about it, doesn't make you a bad person. You just defend the Gators tooth and nail to a degree I haven't seen other posters defend other schools in similar situations. Doesn't make you bad but I think it opens you up to at least be poked at by a few us.

Lomax definitely does strongly defend UF, especially since he does not attend there (yet). I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but people are going to react strongly to it.

Lomax, your avatar probably doesn't help the situation! haha

[Mickey Quicknumbers]

Granted, I am currently hating Lomax from the FSU library, but that's beside the point.

Case in point. I don't even know this guy, and simply for my standing up for my purely objective position on which Florida law school is generally the best to attend, he's talking about hating me. Ridiculous.

You know, when I first started posting here, I really did think that productive discussion to reach some agreement where hard facts allow for agreement to be reached would be possible. Adults, law students, right?

Relax man, I was kidding. I don't know if you've ever heard of it but Florida State and Florida kindof have this rivalry. And when one side of that rivalry beats the other side 6 years in a row (including all 3 years that you've been at this school) it leaves that side bitter towards the other side.

[KafkaLover]

This is my take on the OP's question.
Both my parents are UM graduates and both taught at UM Law and I live in Miami, so clearly I'm going to have some personal bias.
In my opinion, UF Law is objectively the best school to go to in the state, both in terms of rank and in terms of the low in-state tuition. If you get in and don't mind living in G-ville for a few years, that's the best choice.
However, if you are considering a choice between UM, Nova, and Stetson, or any other lower-ranked schools, I would DEFINITELY go for the U. From what my mother (who is a practicing attorney in Miami) has told me, fourth tier schools like Nova or other smaller Florida schools are NOT well respected in the SoFlo legal market. I personally know an attorney who graduated from a small fourth tier school in Florida and it has SEVERELY hurt his employment prospects, even though he has a stellar background otherwise.
I don't know much about Miami's national reach, but in Miami it is my understanding that UM is basically king, or at least regarded as equally favorable to UF. Other schools, like Nova, Florida Coastal, FIU, ect. are generally regarded as being very poor. There are exceptions to the rule (a partner at my mom's firm went to St. Thomas, for example) but in my experience that is the situation in Miami. I cannot speak for legal markets outside Miami, but my general feeling is that UF, FSU, and UM are the schools to consider. Anything outside those schools would likely, in my opinion, hurt your future employment prospects.

[ChrisC]

This is my take on the OP's question.
Both my parents are UM graduates and both taught at UM Law and I live in Miami, so clearly I'm going to have some personal bias.
In my opinion, UF Law is objectively the best school to go to in the state, both in terms of rank and in terms of the low in-state tuition. If you get in and don't mind living in G-ville for a few years, that's the best choice.
However, if you are considering a choice between UM, Nova, and Stetson, or any other lower-ranked schools, I would DEFINITELY go for the U. From what my mother (who is a practicing attorney in Miami) has told me, fourth tier schools like Nova or other smaller Florida schools are NOT well respected in the SoFlo legal market. I personally know an attorney who graduated from a small fourth tier school in Florida and it has SEVERELY hurt his employment prospects, even though he has a stellar background otherwise.
I don't know much about Miami's national reach, but in Miami it is my understanding that UM is basically king, or at least regarded as equally favorable to UF. Other schools, like Nova, Florida Coastal, FIU, ect. are generally regarded as being very poor. There are exceptions to the rule (a partner at my mom's firm went to St. Thomas, for example) but in my experience that is the situation in Miami. I cannot speak for legal markets outside Miami, but my general feeling is that UF, FSU, and UM are the schools to consider. Anything outside those schools would likely, in my opinion, hurt your future employment prospects.

TITCR. The very limited biglaw and high paying legal market in S. FL is filled with UF, UM, and to a lesser extent FSU grads, and of course top national schools. Nova Southeastern Law School grads fill the crappier small firms, ie 10 lawyer PI shops, etc. These jobs in the S FL market pay ~50k to start. Not easy to stomach when you have $130,000 in loans and a one bedroom apartment is $1,000 a month in a decent area.

I've never even really seen a St Thomas, Florida Coastal, etc. grad in a firm, so unless you want to go solo, don't go.

[Lomax]

Bro, the vanity comment was alluding to the movie in your 'tar, nothing more....

Relax man, I was kidding. I don't know if you've ever heard of it but Florida State and Florida kindof have this rivalry. And when one side of that rivalry beats the other side 6 years in a row (including all 3 years that you've been at this school) it leaves that side bitter towards the other side.

Ahhh, my apologies then - probably should've caught on, but what with the more genuine attacks I've been copping recently, I was on hair trigger. Nice reference, in retrospect, GATORTIM.

[darknightbegins]

Bro, the vanity comment was alluding to the movie in your 'tar, nothing more....

Relax man, I was kidding. I don't know if you've ever heard of it but Florida State and Florida kindof have this rivalry. And when one side of that rivalry beats the other side 6 years in a row (including all 3 years that you've been at this school) it leaves that side bitter towards the other side.

Ahhh, my apologies then - probably should've caught on, but what with the more genuine attacks I've been copping recently, I was on hair trigger. Nice reference, in retrospect, GATORTIM.

I second one of the posters that the Avatar sometimes does piss me off. That fucking smile on Keanu gets to me for some reason.

[swflgirl]

I have found this thread to be very interesting. I currently live in Fl, plan to attend school in Fl and intend to stay in Fl when I am done. Everyone's personal opinions aside, what are good ways to research a little more objectively to inform myself on which school might be right for me? I read here that the schools themselves provide biased information and clearly here people have their own opinions, so I am kind of confused as to where I should go or what I should do to get some unbiased information. Does such a thing even exist? I prefer the west coast of Florida which is where I currently live. I wouldn't mind making huge money but at this stage of my life I am more interested in having a career, a job, and a life that makes me happy and simply being comfortable rather than sacrificing everything else for big money. I want a good education, I want good oportunities and I don't want to be hugely in debt. I feel like when I read the forum I get pulled in all different directions and it is confusing. My four choices are UF, FSU, Stetson and Miami. And yes I have read all the pages in this thread, and I do intend to go visit all the schools. My question is how do I do some objective research on my own? Any suggestions?

[Aberzombie1892]

I have found this thread to be very interesting. I currently live in Fl, plan to attend school in Fl and intend to stay in Fl when I am done. Everyone's personal opinions aside, what are good ways to research a little more objectively to inform myself on which school might be right for me? I read here that the schools themselves provide biased information and clearly here people have their own opinions, so I am kind of confused as to where I should go or what I should do to get some unbiased information. Does such a thing even exist? I prefer the west coast of Florida which is where I currently live. I wouldn't mind making huge money but at this stage of my life I am more interested in having a career, a job, and a life that makes me happy and simply being comfortable rather than sacrificing everything else for big money. I want a good education, I want good oportunities and I don't want to be hugely in debt. I feel like when I read the forum I get pulled in all different directions and it is confusing. My four choices are UF, FSU, Stetson and Miami. And yes I have read all the pages in this thread, and I do intend to go visit all the schools. My question is how do I do some objective research on my own? Any suggestions?

Objective research?

Things you can do:
Subscribe to US News law school rankings 2010
Subscribe to US News law school rankings 2011 in April (to see where they worked, how much they made, reporting percentage, etc.)
Look at the employee profiles at the locations at which you would want to work (and see where they graduated from)
Contact some attorneys and ask them their opinion (preferably someone you know or someone who you know knows)
Visit the schools, even before admitted students days/weekends/etc. - those visits are painstakingly planned out - they are somewhat of a smokescreen
Talk to students that are currently attending - but not 1L's or 2L's - preferably only 3L's or higher (joint degree candidates in their 4L year) because they can give you an overview of the entire experience.

Your choice should depend on your personal preference or scholarship offer.

[swflgirl]

Great thank you Aberzombie.

[Lomax]

Sigh. It really was all for naught.

I did the objective research myself and presented it in this thread and others, coming from almost the same original position as you are, swflgirl. I also defended the integrity of my research and conclusion - that being that UF is the best choice of the bunch for prospective students like us - to the point of tearing my hair out.

But hey, maybe you just tuned out and decided that because there was an argument, everything said had to be "personal opinion". If you want to come to conclusions entirely your own, which would not be a bad idea, then Aberzombie1892's suggestions are generally good ones. However, there are more tools you can use to be more fully informed.

NALP OCI Search (allows you to see how many firms did on-campus interviewing at different law schools): --LinkRemoved--
Martindale Advanced Search (allows you to see how many graduates of X law school practice in X city - better than looking at employee profiles of individual firms): http://www.martindale.com/Find-Lawyers- ... Firms.aspx

Also, a few of Aberzombie1892's suggestions aren't particularly good ones. You mentioned that you're wanting to do objective research. Asking people for their opinions of how graduating from X law school will affect your future, even if they are seemingly more in the know, would not qualify as such; nor would gathering a biased opinion of your own based on a day's "painstakingly planned out" visit to X law school.

[Sky'stheLimit]

I just went through Holland & Knight's Tampa attorneys. Of the 65, over half were UF law, 3 were FSU, 5 were Stetson, and 0 were from the U.

Go to their Miami office

[darknightbegins]

Unless you get some money from Miami then forget the U if you are worried about debt. Sticker is almost 40K add cost of living to that at between 16-20K and its going to add up quick. I'd suggest UF or FSU if you want to practice on the west coast. Sounds like you want a stable career and a decent living, in which case government work may appeal to you the most. If you can get in state to UF or FSU that is HUGE and FSU is located at the state capital, can't beat that.

[swflgirl]

Lomax, please don't sigh and pull your hair out. I read this thread and the others you have posted to. You are very well informed and articulate. In fact it is because of the information I have gathered from this forum that I now understand as much as I do about the LSAT and about law school. I am new to the forum, to the idea of going to law school, to the whole process and I am having trouble seeing past all the arguing to figure out what is what, that's all. I have been a moderator on a forum dedicated to my current profession for a long time and I am not used to so much mud slinging! I will go back and read it all again. And thank you for your efforts to educate people like me, who haven't got a clue.

[Aberzombie1892]

Also, a few of Aberzombie1892's suggestions aren't particularly good ones. You mentioned that you're wanting to do objective research. Asking people for their opinions of how graduating from X law school will affect your future, even if they are seemingly more in the know, would not qualify as such; nor would gathering a biased opinion of your own based on a day's "painstakingly planned out" visit to X law school.

She would visit so she would be able to talk to 3L's and 4L's (stay up).

How would talking to lawyers about how various schools compared be any less useful than anything that isn't data?

True data can knock data out (i.e. more firms go to UF, but the same number of people from UF and UM end up in big firms - so that fact that more employers go to UF is completely irrelevant).

But there isn't enough data on everything - so there has to be some opinion.

If she needs an opinion, whats better:

1) Someone who finished law school, has been working for a few years, and practices in the state where the candidate wants to work or
2) a 0L who obsesses over UF, like it's "better' than UM in any quantifiable way?

[Lomax]

Unless you get some money from Miami then forget the U if you are worried about debt. Sticker is almost 40K add cost of living to that at between 16-20K and its going to add up quick. I'd suggest UF or FSU if you want to practice on the west coast. Sounds like you want a stable career and a decent living, in which case government work may appeal to you the most. If you can get in state to UF or FSU that is HUGE and FSU is located at the state capital, can't beat that.

The government is hurting along with everything else right now, and doesn't look to be recovering anytime soon. Jobs are few and far between, and pay little; if you look at current openings (https://jobs.myflorida.com), there are only two entry-level positions (Assistant State Attorney), making between $35,000 and $40,000 a year. Especially now, there seems to be little reason to choose FSU over UF unless one is dead-set on going into public administration.

[Lomax]

Lomax, please don't sigh and pull your hair out. I read this thread and the others you have posted to. You are very well informed and articulate. In fact it is because of the information I have gathered from this forum that I now understand as much as I do about the LSAT and about law school. I am new to the forum, to the idea of going to law school, to the whole process and I am having trouble seeing past all the arguing to figure out what is what, that's all. I have been a moderator on a forum dedicated to my current profession for a long time and I am not used to so much mud slinging! I will go back and read it all again. And thank you for your efforts to educate people like me, who haven't got a clue.

Thank you, swflgirl. I think I may now be able to sleep peacefully tonight after all.

And you obviously have much more of a clue than a lot of people do, given that you are making the effort to sort out fact from opinion. Hopefully your efforts will bear fruit for you.

As for the mudslinging - yes, it's disgusting, and naturally muddies things quite a bit. I don't know where it comes from, and wish it would stop.

If she needs an opinion, whats better:

1) Someone who finished law school, has been working for a few years, and practices in the state where the candidate wants to work or
2) a 0L who obsesses over UF, like it's "better' than UM in any quantifiable way?

3) The quantifiable data that leads the 0L who obsesses over finding out which school will allow him and others to get the most out of their heavy investments to conclude that UF is a better choice than UM for prospective students such as himself and swflgirl, given what they are looking for.

Whether or not there is enough objective data is for swflgirl to decide, at which point she can turn to opinion. Here she did not ask for opinion. In fact, she specifically requested sources of objective information and not opinion. When it comes time for her to turn to opinion, the sources you specified may serve her well.

[Grizz]

Jobs are few and far between, and pay little; if you look at current openings (https://jobs.myflorida.com), there are only two entry-level positions (Assistant State Attorney), making between $35,000 and $40,000 a year.

On the plus side, at least in Tampa, there are some really cute fresh-out-of-law-school girls who work in the SA's office.

[ram jam]

UF>FSU>UM>FIU>stetson>Nova>Flo coastal>a literal bag of douche>Lomax

[destroyer]

UF>FSU>UM>FIU>stetson>Nova>Flo coastal>a literal bag of douche>Lomax

no way FIU>stetson