Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

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ToadGoDead
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby ToadGoDead » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:35 am

Veritas2010 wrote:Because he was:

(a) in JAIL
(b) he probably didn't have anything else to do
(c) Yes, I WAS/AM a good boy and it's not fair because I didn't rob banks, I worked two jobs throughout high school and college. I don't even have a parking ticket.

And circumstances/shircumstances ... I really hope that UMich doesn't take him. That's a terrible precedent. He can go to a Tier 4, if he wants to go that badly...


you sounds very dull

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Zapatero
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby Zapatero » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:37 am

Veritas2010 wrote:I knew that I'd get bashed for this.

I'm not jealous, I've gotten into a lot of good schools and I'm waiting on a few more. I would never trade in my life experiences, grades or achievements for what he has. If he is smart, he should have gone to college and done all that while he was a student, or a law-abiding citizen. We all make mistakes but I think some are more serious than others, and just being able to write great briefs shouldn't be a reason to get admitted into a great law school if one is an ex-con.

I think that someone who breaks the law shouldn't get a free pass into a great law school because all they did for 10 years was sit in a law library ... (I'm sorry if some people are offended by this. But I feel bad for all the rest of us who've followed the rules and might not get in because we're overshadowed by someone like that).

Oh, and we'll see how "qualified" he is when he takes his LSAT or his GPA comes to light.


Free pass? Dude, he was in prison. You make it seem like he was at a pre-law summer camp.

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Jay-Electronica
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby Jay-Electronica » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:37 am

robin600 wrote:
nooyyllib wrote:
Plus, his record doesn't say anything about his ability to perform as a lawyer. Ad hominem flaw.....

It's not that I don't think he'd be a good lawyer, I just wouldn't want him to be MY lawyer. I can't sit with the fact that someone who did something that big is now working for the other side. It's not like you'd hire a terrorist to come up with an anti-terrorism program. IDK can't get past it. Maybe I'm misguided, but I don't think he deserves it (i'm probably gonna get slaughtered for that).

Companies like microsoft are have hired well-known hackers after doing some amazing stunts. The FBI and other federal agencies have done the same. Your argument has no merit.

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annapavlova
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby annapavlova » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:39 am

I think it's an incredibly inspiring story. Anyone who can figure their shit out that in late in life, and after getting themselves in that deep, deserves accolades.

And OP, your "just because someone writes great briefs, doesn't mean he deserves to go to law school" comment is ridiculous. Do you realize how fucking hard it is to even write a GOOD brief? An OK brief? Because you clearly do not, I'll tell you - it's a bitch, and learning how to do it is half of the battle. If this guy can already write like that, he's already done what most law students will never do - write persuasively, and well.

Not to mention the fact that the "great" briefs he wrote were granted cert, with absolutely no formal legal education. I won't ask you if you have any idea how hard that is - the answer is far too obvious.

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reasonabledoubt
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby reasonabledoubt » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:40 am

Veritas2010 wrote:I knew that I'd get bashed for this.

I'm not jealous, I've gotten into a lot of good schools and I'm waiting on a few more. I would never trade in my life experiences, grades or achievements for what he has. If he is smart, he should have gone to college and done all that while he was a student, or a law-abiding citizen. We all make mistakes but I think some are more serious than others, and just being able to write great briefs shouldn't be a reason to get admitted into a great law school if one is an ex-con.

I think that someone who breaks the law shouldn't get a free pass into a great law school because all they did for 10 years was sit in a law library ... (I'm sorry if some people are offended by this. But I feel bad for all the rest of us who've followed the rules and might not get in because we're overshadowed by someone like that).

Oh, and we'll see how "qualified" he is when he takes his LSAT or his GPA comes to light.


Yeah, you're right, he might become governor after he graduates. That's life.... unfortunately it's not the best/brightest/most ethical that get ahead all the time. It's mostly the inverse, the more I think about it.

jelizabeth88
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby jelizabeth88 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:40 am

robin600 wrote:
nooyyllib wrote:
Plus, his record doesn't say anything about his ability to perform as a lawyer. Ad hominem flaw.....

It's not that I don't think he'd be a good lawyer, I just wouldn't want him to be MY lawyer. I can't sit with the fact that someone who did something that big is now working for the other side. It's not like you'd hire a terrorist to come up with an anti-terrorism program. IDK can't get past it. Maybe I'm misguided, but I don't think he deserves it (i'm probably gonna get slaughtered for that).


--ImageRemoved--

Sorry, Frank Abagnale just immediately came to mind.

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reasonabledoubt
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby reasonabledoubt » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:42 am

By the way, if the Michigan students (much like yourself, who worked hard, followed the rules, etc) stage a little strike or boycott of some sort it would shut the potential of this happening right away.

Power = numbers.... organized numbers.

stayway
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby stayway » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:43 am

jelizabeth88 wrote:
robin600 wrote:
nooyyllib wrote:
Plus, his record doesn't say anything about his ability to perform as a lawyer. Ad hominem flaw.....

It's not that I don't think he'd be a good lawyer, I just wouldn't want him to be MY lawyer. I can't sit with the fact that someone who did something that big is now working for the other side. It's not like you'd hire a terrorist to come up with an anti-terrorism program. IDK can't get past it. Maybe I'm misguided, but I don't think he deserves it (i'm probably gonna get slaughtered for that).


--ImageRemoved--

Sorry, Frank Abagnale just immediately came to mind.


LOL: exactly what I thought as well! Nicely done.

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Jay-Electronica
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby Jay-Electronica » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:43 am

How about this: Stop crying like a little sissy about someone elses life and worry about your own. This is ridiculous!

stayway
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby stayway » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:45 am

this thread is surprisingly successful in distracting me from my admissions worries.

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reasonabledoubt
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby reasonabledoubt » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:46 am

nooyyllib wrote:this thread is surprisingly successful in distracting me from my admissions worries.


I know, right, it gives us all hope. I'm starting to think I can get into Yale despite my undergrad hijinks on a motorcycle. (don't ask)

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Veritas2010
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby Veritas2010 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:49 am

tomhobbes wrote:
Veritas2010 wrote:WTH???!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/09/us/09 ... terstitial

Are they SERIOUSLY going to admit a con? Meanwhile people like moi get ulcers over library fines ... nice.

Hey maybe this is the soft Yale needs! Yes - going to jail is the new Fulbright. *bangs head on wall*


Would it help if I told you that the difference between you and him is not your criminal history, it's that he's really smart?



I don't think that he's smarter just because of ONE thing that he's done in jail. Granted that it's pretty unusual and impressive. But a lot of undergrads do impressive and unusual things as well while staying OUT of jail, like intern at The Hague or rebuild homes in New Orleans.

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Zapatero
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby Zapatero » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:49 am

reasonabledoubt wrote:By the way, if the Michigan students (much like yourself, who worked hard, followed the rules, etc) stage a little strike or boycott of some sort it would shut the potential of this happening right away.

Power = numbers.... organized numbers.


That's assuming:
-The Michigan students don't want him to attend
-The faculty cares whether the students want him to attend

I can't understand how some people think he doesn't deserve to study law. This man committed a crime, served out his sentence, and would like to move on with his life. He has displayed an extraordinary talent for the law and has accomplished more from a jail cell than most of us will accomplish in our entire careers.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:53 am

From what I said in the other thread where all this was hashed out already:

vanwinkle wrote:Here are my thoughts on the matter:

Shouldn't everybody want this guy to succeed? I mean, this guy is the archetype of the reformed felon. Do we want to give people positive things to look forward to so that if they change and learn to contribute we will accept them into society, or do we want to label them, "once a felon, always a felon"?

And if he ends up taking federal money, from student loans or public school grants or whatever... The government pays for the education of so many graduate students. It's going to end up paying for a huge chunk of mine if I go into PI work, and I'm just some guy. It pays for the educations of many others who end up wasting that money, dropping out, or taking the money and then bolting to higher-paying corporate work as soon as they've fulfilled their government obligations. Why shouldn't it pay to educate ex-cons, especially if it helps those people be this productive, benefit others, and stop being harmful toward society?

I'd rather taxpayers fund his education than end up having to fund his reincarceration.

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chadwick218
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby chadwick218 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:55 am

Why not? He has paid back his debt to society. At least he has done something with his life. IMO, he is far more deserving than many of the folks going straight from undergrad to law school.

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reasonabledoubt
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby reasonabledoubt » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:55 am

ccs1702 wrote:
reasonabledoubt wrote:By the way, if the Michigan students (much like yourself, who worked hard, followed the rules, etc) stage a little strike or boycott of some sort it would shut the potential of this happening right away.

Power = numbers.... organized numbers.


That's assuming:
-The Michigan students don't want him to attend
-The faculty cares whether the students want him to attend

I can't understand how some people think he doesn't deserve to study law. This man committed a crime, served out his sentence, and would like to move on with his life. He has displayed an extraordinary talent for the law and has accomplished more from a jail cell than most of us will accomplish in our entire careers.


Ok, but if I don't pass character and fitness after I graduate because of that panty raid incident during UG which was prosecuted as a robbery, I'm going to be uber pissed.

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ToadGoDead
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby ToadGoDead » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:56 am

Veritas2010 wrote:
tomhobbes wrote:
Veritas2010 wrote:WTH???!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/09/us/09 ... terstitial

Are they SERIOUSLY going to admit a con? Meanwhile people like moi get ulcers over library fines ... nice.

Hey maybe this is the soft Yale needs! Yes - going to jail is the new Fulbright. *bangs head on wall*


Would it help if I told you that the difference between you and him is not your criminal history, it's that he's really smart?



I don't think that he's smarter just because of ONE thing that he's done in jail. Granted that it's pretty unusual and impressive. But a lot of undergrads do impressive and unusual things as well while staying OUT of jail, like intern at The Hague or rebuild homes in New Orleans.


your level of whiny sissy has just increased

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Zapatero
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby Zapatero » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:57 am

Veritas2010 wrote:I don't think that he's smarter just because of ONE thing that he's done in jail. Granted that it's pretty unusual and impressive. But a lot of undergrads do impressive and unusual things as well while staying OUT of jail, like intern at The Hague or rebuild homes in New Orleans.


Why do I get the sense that OP hasn't even read the whole article?

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tomhobbes
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby tomhobbes » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:58 am

Veritas2010 wrote:
tomhobbes wrote:
Veritas2010 wrote:WTH???!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/09/us/09 ... terstitial

Are they SERIOUSLY going to admit a con? Meanwhile people like moi get ulcers over library fines ... nice.

Hey maybe this is the soft Yale needs! Yes - going to jail is the new Fulbright. *bangs head on wall*


Would it help if I told you that the difference between you and him is not your criminal history, it's that he's really smart?



I don't think that he's smarter just because of ONE thing that he's done in jail. Granted that it's pretty unusual and impressive. But a lot of undergrads do impressive and unusual things as well while staying OUT of jail, like intern at The Hague or rebuild homes in New Orleans.


Because he only did one thing, and it's comparable to those.

jelizabeth88
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby jelizabeth88 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:00 am

tomhobbes wrote:
Veritas2010 wrote:
tomhobbes wrote:
Veritas2010 wrote:WTH???!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/09/us/09 ... terstitial

Are they SERIOUSLY going to admit a con? Meanwhile people like moi get ulcers over library fines ... nice.

Hey maybe this is the soft Yale needs! Yes - going to jail is the new Fulbright. *bangs head on wall*


Would it help if I told you that the difference between you and him is not your criminal history, it's that he's really smart?



I don't think that he's smarter just because of ONE thing that he's done in jail. Granted that it's pretty unusual and impressive. But a lot of undergrads do impressive and unusual things as well while staying OUT of jail, like intern at The Hague or rebuild homes in New Orleans.


Because he only did one thing, and it's comparable to those.



+1

Veritas, you are such a hoot.

notanumber
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby notanumber » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:02 am

I, for one, think that we should just shoot anybody who commits a misdemeanor or a felony. Kind of like in that Star Trek episode.

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pleasetryagain
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby pleasetryagain » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:02 am

--ImageRemoved--

pianist
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby pianist » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:02 am

Veritas2010 wrote:I knew that I'd get bashed for this.

I'm not jealous, I've gotten into a lot of good schools and I'm waiting on a few more. I would never trade in my life experiences, grades or achievements for what he has. If he is smart, he should have gone to college and done all that while he was a student, or a law-abiding citizen. We all make mistakes but I think some are more serious than others, and just being able to write great briefs shouldn't be a reason to get admitted into a great law school if one is an ex-con.

I think that someone who breaks the law shouldn't get a free pass into a great law school because all they did for 10 years was sit in a law library ... (I'm sorry if some people are offended by this. But I feel bad for all the rest of us who've followed the rules and might not get in because we're overshadowed by someone like that).

Oh, and we'll see how "qualified" he is when he takes his LSAT or his GPA comes to light.


1) He has paid his debt to the society and therefore deserves to have a new beginning.
2) "Sitting in a law library" is not a good description of an inmate's life in prison. The latter is actually very tough.
3) Why do schools value one's LSAT score and GPA? Because they need some predictors. From what this guy has achieved while he was in prison (how many qualified lawyers can achieve what he has achieved?), it's not difficult to predict that he has the potential to become a superb lawyer.

Don't portray yourself as a victim, for you are not one, unless of course you have achieved what he has achieved (winning not-so-easy cases without a law license and a formal legal education) and are not being considered for admissions at top law schools.

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Jay-Electronica
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby Jay-Electronica » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:04 am

This is one of the reasons why recidivism is so high, society doesnt want to accept people who have paid their debt. If he is truly rehabilitated he should have as fair a chance as anyone else to be a productive member of society.

stayway
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Re: Michigan to admit ex-con? Really?

Postby stayway » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:05 am

LoL damn you guys are burning him!




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