UCLA Critical Race Theory

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beaumondep
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UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby beaumondep » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:39 pm

Just wondering who else has applied to UCLA with a CRT specialization?

Danteshek
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby Danteshek » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:41 pm

Liberal arts thought police goes to law school

beaumondep
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby beaumondep » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:46 pm

Not necessarily a thought police, but interested in different vantage points.

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Laina
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby Laina » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:18 pm

I'm not going to UCLA anymore, but I did apply with this concentration. It sounds amazing, and to work under Cheryl Harris would be a dream. It'd also be nice to go to a school that had this institutionalized, so people who think of it as a "thought police" or whatever would have to find some respect for it. I definitely still plan on pursuing it where I do go to school, and I hope it isn't completely undervalued.

Danteshek
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby Danteshek » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:19 pm

A PhD in English is probably better if you're interested in that kind of thing

beaumondep
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby beaumondep » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:28 pm

Absolutely agree, Laina--Cheryl Harris' work is genius. I know that a lot of different schools have been implementing strong CRT tracks, so I hope that you find one suited to your interests!

And I don't agree that a PhD in English is where I should be if a career in academia isn't where I'm headed.

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annapavlova
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby annapavlova » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:31 pm

Danteshek wrote:Liberal arts thought police goes to law school

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Zannie1986
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby Zannie1986 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:32 pm

I applied to this sub-program, too, really interested in issues of race as a soc. major..my numbers were too low, alas, and was rejected. it was the only school i could find with such a strong program in what i cared about, but i knew it was a stretch for me to get in.
what other schools have good CRT tracks, out of curiosity and regretful ignorance?

Danteshek
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby Danteshek » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:35 pm

beaumondep wrote:And I don't agree that a PhD in English is where I should be if a career in academia isn't where I'm headed.


I take it you're heading to big law after majoring in Critical Race Theory?

beaumondep
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby beaumondep » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:48 pm

Danteshek wrote:
beaumondep wrote:And I don't agree that a PhD in English is where I should be if a career in academia isn't where I'm headed.


I take it you're heading to big law after majoring in Critical Race Theory?


I'm not majoring in Critical Race Theory--it's a field of interest that I've pursued thus far, but I'm sure that law school will open doors that I've not yet been exposed to. I'm not looking to do big law, more non-prof work.

beaumondep
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby beaumondep » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:57 pm

Zannie1986 wrote:I applied to this sub-program, too, really interested in issues of race as a soc. major..my numbers were too low, alas, and was rejected. it was the only school i could find with such a strong program in what i cared about, but i knew it was a stretch for me to get in.
what other schools have good CRT tracks, out of curiosity and regretful ignorance?


Zannie, pmed you.

Danteshek
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby Danteshek » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:07 pm

beaumondep wrote:
Danteshek wrote:
beaumondep wrote:And I don't agree that a PhD in English is where I should be if a career in academia isn't where I'm headed.


I take it you're heading to big law after majoring in Critical Race Theory?


I'm not majoring in Critical Race Theory--it's a field of interest that I've pursued thus far, but I'm sure that law school will open doors that I've not yet been exposed to. I'm not looking to do big law, more non-prof work.


Good for you. Just make sure you take enough of the Bar classes. I know a girl at UCLA who got carried away with CRT and failed the bar, probably because she blew of the basics.

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Laina
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby Laina » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:09 pm

beaumondep wrote:Absolutely agree, Laina--Cheryl Harris' work is genius. I know that a lot of different schools have been implementing strong CRT tracks, so I hope that you find one suited to your interests!

And I don't agree that a PhD in English is where I should be if a career in academia isn't where I'm headed.


Thank you. Stanford has some pretty great profs (Ford for example) in the field, and I'll supplement it with classes in other PhD programs since it's so easy to cross-register. I just hope the other SLS students don't look down on this kind of work--I've had enough of that in undergrad.

beaumondep
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby beaumondep » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:29 am

Laina wrote:
beaumondep wrote:Absolutely agree, Laina--Cheryl Harris' work is genius. I know that a lot of different schools have been implementing strong CRT tracks, so I hope that you find one suited to your interests!

And I don't agree that a PhD in English is where I should be if a career in academia isn't where I'm headed.


Thank you. Stanford has some pretty great profs (Ford for example) in the field, and I'll supplement it with classes in other PhD programs since it's so easy to cross-register. I just hope the other SLS students don't look down on this kind of work--I've had enough of that in undergrad.


Congrats on SLS! :D My cousin is graduating from SLS this year & she had a fabulous time. I also applied, but with my LSAT score I don't think I'll get in. Mind if I ask where you went to undergrad? Cross-registering with PhD programs is a great idea--looking forward to a nice balance with the rigidity of 1L coursework. I'm really glad that there are others pursuing similar interests in the field! CRT, or at least more critical perspectives, is definitely pushing it's way through the crowd.

OlderHopeful
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby OlderHopeful » Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:42 pm

Danteshek, I am not trying to disrespect you in any way, but I must disagree with you. CRT aims to emphasize dominant privileges inherent to our society by looking at the experiences of those oppressed by them. The purpose of applying CRT principles to the study of law is to provide an additional perspective; a perspective that would hopefully alter social experiences through law and policy. How is a PhD in English analogous to this? Additionally, there are many other career choices outside of academia and big law. But, regardless of the path one chooses – and this path can change direction with time, having a background in CRT only enhances and contributes to ones perspective.

Yes, I also indicated an interest in the CRS specialization and would be honored and excited to learn and contribute to the discourse with the leaders in the field, both existing and up and coming. This is one of the major reasons I am interested in UCLA Law. I am still waiting to hear if I have been accepted.

Danteshek wrote:A PhD in English is probably better if you're interested in that kind of thing

Danteshek
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby Danteshek » Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:48 pm

Not sure how CRT will actually help someone who is actually interested in practicing law. CRT is basically an academic pursuit that has very little application to the real world, much less the bar. If you are interested in studying theory (presumably to become a theorist), the training available in graduate English/Sociology/History departments is quite simply far superior than in any law school.

beaumondep
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby beaumondep » Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:21 pm

OlderHopeful wrote:Danteshek, I am not trying to disrespect you in any way, but I must disagree with you. CRT aims to emphasize dominant privileges inherent to our society by looking at the experiences of those oppressed by them. The purpose of applying CRT principles to the study of law is to provide an additional perspective; a perspective that would hopefully alter social experiences through law and policy. How is a PhD in English analogous to this? Additionally, there are many other career choices outside of academia and big law. But, regardless of the path one chooses – and this path can change direction with time, having a background in CRT only enhances and contributes to ones perspective.


Danteshek wrote:A PhD in English is probably better if you're interested in that kind of thing


My thoughts exactly

elmagic
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby elmagic » Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:38 pm

Danteshek wrote:Not sure how CRT will actually help someone who is actually interested in practicing law. CRT is basically an academic pursuit that has very little application to the real world, much less the bar. If you are interested in studying theory (presumably to become a theorist), the training available in graduate English/Sociology/History departments is quite simply far superior than in any law school.

Little application to the real world? Yeah maybe if your idea of the real world is limited to mergers and acquisitions, but then again at least you go to school in a nice building.

OlderHopeful
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby OlderHopeful » Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:44 pm

It all depends on the type of law one chooses to practice. CRT provides substance to the dialogue on race and racism in the law, and can aid one in applying CRT principles to other forms of discrimination as well. As an example, it is very applicable to the contentious immigration debate and can serve the interests of those intent on working in immigration law. Furthermore, a basis in CRT is valuable to anyone with plans to work in the area of racial, social, and environmental justice or other social advocacy practice. CRT should be thought of more as a framework for addressing race, racism, discrimination, power, etc in the legal practice. This is why CRS, which teaches CRT is essential for those interested in these paths. There are many routes for those with a JD, but a grad degree in English/Sociology/History isn’t necessarily going to open those same doors or provide those same opportunities.

Danteshek wrote:Not sure how CRT will actually help someone who is actually interested in practicing law. CRT is basically an academic pursuit that has very little application to the real world, much less the bar. If you are interested in studying theory (presumably to become a theorist), the training available in graduate English/Sociology/History departments is quite simply far superior than in any law school.

notanumber
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby notanumber » Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:28 pm

Danteshek wrote:Not sure how CRT will actually help someone who is actually interested in practicing law. CRT is basically an academic pursuit that has very little application to the real world, much less the bar. If you are interested in studying theory (presumably to become a theorist), the training available in graduate English/Sociology/History departments is quite simply far superior than in any law school.


Even as somebody who isn't entirely sold on CRT I'm not sure if I agree with this. Understanding a wide range of legal theories seems essential to effective legal practice (and it seems particularly essential if one wants to clerk for or eventually become a judge).

Different legal theories explore the various logical forms that underlie the creation, application, and interpretation of the law. These logics will necessarily be different for different judges and juries. If they weren't different there would be no need to have, say, courts of appeals. Actually, you'd not need a judge of any sort. The facts of a case could be entered into a computer that could then spit out an appropriate result.

If you want to advocate effectively for a client then it seems critical that you understand these theories and that you are able to contextually mold your arguments around the various logics that underlie them.

There are things I like about CRT and there are things that I don't like about CRT but to dismiss it out of hand as "impractical" simply because you don't like its political or social orientation is to do oneself a disfavor. For example, I don't have much intellectual respect for textualism but if I were arguing a case before a well-known textualist judge you can be sure that I would form arguments that "made sense" to a textualist.

Danteshek
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby Danteshek » Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:35 pm

elmagic wrote:
Danteshek wrote:Not sure how CRT will actually help someone who is actually interested in practicing law. CRT is basically an academic pursuit that has very little application to the real world, much less the bar. If you are interested in studying theory (presumably to become a theorist), the training available in graduate English/Sociology/History departments is quite simply far superior than in any law school.

Little application to the real world? Yeah maybe if your idea of the real world is limited to mergers and acquisitions, but then again at least you go to school in a nice building.


0L? Thought so.

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rayiner
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby rayiner » Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:43 pm

Laina wrote:
beaumondep wrote:Absolutely agree, Laina--Cheryl Harris' work is genius. I know that a lot of different schools have been implementing strong CRT tracks, so I hope that you find one suited to your interests!

And I don't agree that a PhD in English is where I should be if a career in academia isn't where I'm headed.


Thank you. Stanford has some pretty great profs (Ford for example) in the field, and I'll supplement it with classes in other PhD programs since it's so easy to cross-register. I just hope the other SLS students don't look down on this kind of work--I've had enough of that in undergrad.


Its a hint.

elmagic
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby elmagic » Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:49 pm

Danteshek wrote:
elmagic wrote:
Danteshek wrote:Not sure how CRT will actually help someone who is actually interested in practicing law. CRT is basically an academic pursuit that has very little application to the real world, much less the bar. If you are interested in studying theory (presumably to become a theorist), the training available in graduate English/Sociology/History departments is quite simply far superior than in any law school.

Little application to the real world? Yeah maybe if your idea of the real world is limited to mergers and acquisitions, but then again at least you go to school in a nice building.


0L? Thought so.

TTT? Thought so.

Danteshek
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Re: UCLA Critical Race Theory

Postby Danteshek » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:15 am

Congratulations on your admission to Yale Law School! You are now automatically more knowledgeable and more skilled than any lower tier student or graduate! Enjoy law school without grades (kinda defeats the purpose, but whatever)!




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