With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Share Your Experiences, Read About Other Experiences. Please keep posts organized by school and expected year of graduation.

As a black male and with no $ offered from either, which school should I attend?

Howard University
53
66%
Washington College of Law
27
34%
 
Total votes: 80

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oberlin08
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Re: With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Postby oberlin08 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:09 pm

Howard is also really really really inexpensive.

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Shot007
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Re: With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Postby Shot007 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:19 am

Hey, I was wondering if you got a chance to visit any of the campuses as yet - I got into Howard, and will most likely be throwing in an app to American (which I am pretty sure I can get in)... but was wondering if it is even worth it, since I have Howard acceptance.

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ATOIsp07
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Re: With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Postby ATOIsp07 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:05 pm

Shot007 wrote:Hey, I was wondering if you got a chance to visit any of the campuses as yet - I got into Howard, and will most likely be throwing in an app to American (which I am pretty sure I can get in)... but was wondering if it is even worth it, since I have Howard acceptance.



Well, WCL is the better-ranked school (T1). However, it focuses on international law/public interest/govt. and doesn't place a huge emphasis on biglaw. For URMs, Howard gives you the better shot at BIGLAW (assuming you finish at top 20-30%) and also has a better national reputation.

The question, and it's the question that'll really answer all questions regarding this topic, is: would you be better off finishing at median at Howard or at American?

It certainly wouldn't hurt you to apply and it may actually be worth it, especially when you do take it upon yourself to visit the campuses. It also depends on whether or not you're gunning for biglaw or if you have other aspirations with your JD.

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oberlin08
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Re: With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Postby oberlin08 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:58 pm

Shot007 wrote:Hey, I was wondering if you got a chance to visit any of the campuses as yet - I got into Howard, and will most likely be throwing in an app to American (which I am pretty sure I can get in)... but was wondering if it is even worth it, since I have Howard acceptance.



I havent been to official visits to either, HOWEVER, i grew up in the same neighborhood as Howard, and am familiar with AU. Howard Law's campus kindof sucks, theyre library is decent though. AU wins the campus battle.

starstruck393
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Re: With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Postby starstruck393 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:11 pm

ATOIsp07 wrote:
Shot007 wrote:Hey, I was wondering if you got a chance to visit any of the campuses as yet - I got into Howard, and will most likely be throwing in an app to American (which I am pretty sure I can get in)... but was wondering if it is even worth it, since I have Howard acceptance.



Well, WCL is the better-ranked school (T1). However, it focuses on international law/public interest/govt. and doesn't place a huge emphasis on biglaw. For URMs, Howard gives you the better shot at BIGLAW (assuming you finish at top 20-30%) and also has a better national reputation.

The question, and it's the question that'll really answer all questions regarding this topic, is: would you be better off finishing at median at Howard or at American?

It certainly wouldn't hurt you to apply and it may actually be worth it, especially when you do take it upon yourself to visit the campuses. It also depends on whether or not you're gunning for biglaw or if you have other aspirations with your JD.


American is at the bottom of T1. It's not that prestigious. The gap between GW and American is much greater than the gap between American and Howard. Median at American and you'll be in trouble job wise; at least Howard has the HCBU thing going for it. Take the cheaper option, Howard...

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ATOIsp07
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Re: With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Postby ATOIsp07 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:06 pm

starstruck393 wrote:American is at the bottom of T1. It's not that prestigious.


Glad you're not a TLS snob...


starstruck393 wrote:The gap between GW and American is much greater than the gap between American and Howard. Median at American and you'll be in trouble job wise; at least Howard has the HCBU thing going for it.



Flag on the play! Howard is a T3, buddy. Don't get it twisted!

And from my research, although a crazy number of firms do OCI at Howard, it'd be interesting to know how many (numbers/percentages) are hired by those firms. Also, after the top 20-30%, you're more or less screwed for employment (and need to rely on networking. I also believe (since I've been told) that blacks finishing median (or maybe even a bit below) at American can still get that preferential treatment for employment prospects.

I feel you about the financial factor, however.

This is just my opinion, though.

starstruck393
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Re: With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Postby starstruck393 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:28 pm

ATOIsp07 wrote:
starstruck393 wrote:The gap between GW and American is much greater than the gap between American and Howard. Median at American and you'll be in trouble job wise; at least Howard has the HCBU thing going for it.



Flag on the play! Howard is a T3, buddy. Don't get it twisted!

And from my research, although a crazy number of firms do OCI at Howard, it'd be interesting to know how many (numbers/percentages) are hired by those firms. Also, after the top 20-30%, you're more or less screwed for employment (and need to rely on networking. I also believe (since I've been told) that blacks finishing median (or maybe even a bit below) at American can still get that preferential treatment for employment prospects.

I feel you about the financial factor, however.

This is just my opinion, though.


Prestige gap. The difference between bottom of T1 and T3 is minimal. I would find it hard to believe that AAs at median at American would be any different than AAs at median at Howard. Maybe you'll get preferential treatment still, maybe not, but it should be about the same either way.

Plus, consider this. How are firms going to know you're AA? Do you put it on your resume? On a cover letter? That would be a real turn off for me if I was reading your resume. Maybe it's just me, but even if I know than a URM is looking for an advantage in the hiring process, being as blatant as putting on your resume that your AA would seem pompous and make me want to look elsewhere. These firms don't have applications with an ethnicity box. They essentially have to see you. That's great if you get an interview, but with a tiny OCI at American, chances are good you'll be sending out a lot of resumes. At least from Howard they'll have a pretty good guess.

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ATOIsp07
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Re: With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Postby ATOIsp07 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:41 pm

starstruck393 wrote:
ATOIsp07 wrote:
starstruck393 wrote:The gap between GW and American is much greater than the gap between American and Howard. Median at American and you'll be in trouble job wise; at least Howard has the HCBU thing going for it.



Flag on the play! Howard is a T3, buddy. Don't get it twisted!

And from my research, although a crazy number of firms do OCI at Howard, it'd be interesting to know how many (numbers/percentages) are hired by those firms. Also, after the top 20-30%, you're more or less screwed for employment (and need to rely on networking. I also believe (since I've been told) that blacks finishing median (or maybe even a bit below) at American can still get that preferential treatment for employment prospects.

I feel you about the financial factor, however.

This is just my opinion, though.


Prestige gap. The difference between bottom of T1 and T3 is minimal. I would find it hard to believe that AAs at median at American would be any different than AAs at median at Howard. Maybe you'll get preferential treatment still, maybe not, but it should be about the same either way.

Plus, consider this. How are firms going to know you're AA? Do you put it on your resume? On a cover letter? That would be a real turn off for me if I was reading your resume. Maybe it's just me, but even if I know than a URM is looking for an advantage in the hiring process, being as blatant as putting on your resume that your AA would seem pompous and make me want to look elsewhere. These firms don't have applications with an ethnicity box. They essentially have to see you. That's great if you get an interview, but with a tiny OCI at American, chances are good you'll be sending out a lot of resumes. At least from Howard they'll have a pretty good guess.



Valid point in regards to prestige. However, even from resumes, I'm sure interviewers can get a fair enough idea of one's background, especially if you list extra-curricular activities (ie-Black Law Student Association).

I would also suggest Howard for biglaw over American. No doubt about it. However, as a whole and in general, American has to be a superior education for it to be in the T1, even if at 45. But then again, it is USNWR so who knows? I guess it's all relative to priorities/career goals.

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gdane
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Re: With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Postby gdane » Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:33 pm

Im waitlisted at American so I, as well as many others, would greatly appreciate it if you could withdraw from American if you dont think you are going to go. It seems like you are leaning toward Howard.

Plus, I think you should choose Howard over American cause you're black. It would be better for you if you want Biglaw.

Thanks!!!

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ATOIsp07
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Re: With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Postby ATOIsp07 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:36 pm

gdane5 wrote:Im waitlisted at American so I, as well as many others, would greatly appreciate it if you could withdraw from American if you dont think you are going to go. It seems like you are leaning toward Howard.

Plus, I think you should choose Howard over American cause you're black. It would be better for you if you want Biglaw.

Thanks!!!



But I don't want biglaw and, if anything, I think WCL would be the safer bet.

Thanks!!!
Enjoy the WL!

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gdane
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Re: With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Postby gdane » Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:41 pm

Ahhh!!!! Thats admirable. I dont want Biglaw either. Working a million hours a week surrounded by jerkoffs doesnt seem all that appealing to me.

Yep I'm having gonna have a great time on the waitlist. Ehh its all cool honestly. I'm really poor right now so I was thinking of taking the year off and working for the Feds in DC. That would be cool!

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ATOIsp07
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Re: With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Postby ATOIsp07 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:43 pm

gdane5 wrote:Ahhh!!!! Thats admirable. I dont want Biglaw either. Working a million hours a week surrounded by jerkoffs doesnt seem all that appealing to me.

Yep I'm having gonna have a great time on the waitlist. Ehh its all cool honestly. I'm really poor right now so I was thinking of taking the year off and working for the Feds in DC. That would be cool!



Yea, taking the year off would be good just because you grow immensely as an individual from working full-time. And you typically go back to school more focused. That's what I'm doing now.

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gdane
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Re: With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Postby gdane » Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:46 pm

Well working isnt anything new for me. Ive worked for the last 6 years. I worked full time throughout undergrad. Its just that I've been unemployed for the last few months and I'm really poor now. Its tough trying to find a job in Miami, FL. There is nothing here. But, DC? Lots of stuff! My best friend tried to find a job here for 6 months and had no luck. Within a month of her moving back to Virginia (No. Va) she found a job.

So point is that while I would love to go to WCL, not going wouldnt be the worst thing in the world.

THE ANSWER
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Re: With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Postby THE ANSWER » Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:36 pm

You know, last year I was in your place and I asked the same question. I didn't get an answer.

As a current 1L at Howard Law who after their first semester is presumedly at the class mean, I still ask this question daily.

I will leave you with this. I went by the "legendary" OCS recently and was told that in the current state of the legal market, no firm wants anybody from the bottom half of the class...thats regardless of the firm's size. Do with it what you will.

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ATOIsp07
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Re: With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Postby ATOIsp07 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:17 pm

THE ANSWER wrote:You know, last year I was in your place and I asked the same question. I didn't get an answer.

As a current 1L at Howard Law who after their first semester is presumedly at the class mean, I still ask this question daily.

I will leave you with this. I went by the "legendary" OCS recently and was told that in the current state of the legal market, no firm wants anybody from the bottom half of the class...thats regardless of the firm's size. Do with it what you will.


Hmmm, only one post in your entire 1-day history on TLS? Interesting to say the least.

and what does "OCS" stand for?

THE ANSWER
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Re: With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Postby THE ANSWER » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:19 pm

THE ANSWER wrote:Hmmm, only one post in your entire 1-day history on TLS? Interesting to say the least.

and what does "OCS" stand for?


So I wanted to get a sense of what people think about Howard Law and I stumbled across this thread. I always find it amusing to read the different myths perpetuated about Howard, lets just say it's how I get my kicks.

Like I said,You don't have to believe me...but as far as I can tell I just gave you the best answer so far, and probably the best that you're going to get.

OCS stands for Office of Career Services.

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ATOIsp07
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Re: With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Postby ATOIsp07 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:25 pm

THE ANSWER wrote:
THE ANSWER wrote:Hmmm, only one post in your entire 1-day history on TLS? Interesting to say the least.

and what does "OCS" stand for?


So I wanted to get a sense of what people think about Howard Law and I stumbled across this thread. I always find it amusing to read the different myths perpetuated about Howard, lets just say it's how I get my kicks.

Like I said,You don't have to believe me...but as far as I can tell I just gave you the best answer so far, and probably the best that you're going to get.

OCS stands for Office of Career Services.



Have you at least enjoyed Howard?

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Shot007
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Re: With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Postby Shot007 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:41 pm

ATOIsp07 wrote:
THE ANSWER wrote:
THE ANSWER wrote:Hmmm, only one post in your entire 1-day history on TLS? Interesting to say the least.

and what does "OCS" stand for?


So I wanted to get a sense of what people think about Howard Law and I stumbled across this thread. I always find it amusing to read the different myths perpetuated about Howard, lets just say it's how I get my kicks.

Like I said,You don't have to believe me...but as far as I can tell I just gave you the best answer so far, and probably the best that you're going to get.

OCS stands for Office of Career Services.



Have you at least enjoyed Howard?


Man I would really like to know the answer to this question, I myself have gotten into Howard next year with a good Scholarship, so I was wondering what the school is like. Campus, daily life, reputation around DC. Coming to visit the school beforehand is sort of out of the question as I am in Canada.

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Shot007
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Re: With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Postby Shot007 » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:22 pm

OP, Did you decide which school you will be attending?

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Jay-Electronica
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Re: With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Postby Jay-Electronica » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:29 pm

I think hes banned right now, but I believe he decided on WCL

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ATOIsp07
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Re: With everything equal, WCL or Howard?

Postby ATOIsp07 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:48 am

i'm back.




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