What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

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sundevil77
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby sundevil77 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:13 pm

aIvin adams wrote:
Yellowcard wrote:So by changing the employment data they jumped 17 spots? Is that really all they had to do? Was there anything legitimate that they may have done (statistically speaking) that improved their position?


according to dean berman, lsat scores have been rising. lsat, expenditures per student, and student/fac ratio are all usnwr criteria iirc and have all been improving at asu.


@Yellowcard- They could have simply reported students employed in non-J.D. jobs as being "employed." I'm not saying they did this, but schools can legitimately manipulate this number a bit.

As alvin adams suggests, lsat scores have been rising, although their 75% is 1 point off of UA's. The student/fac ratio is quite low. Again, this number doesn't reflect the availability of course offerings or accessibility of faculty.

I think that most people's problem with the USNWR rankings is that the data can be manipulated, or they don't reflect important measures of a school's quality. The system uses poor metrics. Then again, GPA is a terrible metric, but it is one of the chief components in law school admissions.

Bottom line: UA and ASU are very similar. Statistics can be manipulated to move a school up or down. Variations in rankings, especially schools in the 30-60 range, are not all that important. You should go to the school you like best or that offers you the best financial package.

whiteacre
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby whiteacre » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:01 pm

p.
Last edited by whiteacre on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kaya_belly
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby kaya_belly » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:28 am

Izzle13 wrote:
Usernamepassword wrote:I've never looked forward to tax day before...but im hoping for a response!


FWIW, I just spoke to the admissions office - still no decision on my file (complete as of 11/6/09) and they are now saying that most of the decisions should be out in the next two weeks.


Two weeks??! Yesterday, the admissions office told me by this Friday. Super.

I have tried to twist the meaning of this delay into something positive, but I now pretty much believe that the other afterthoughts like myself are basically on an unofficial waitlist.

Even though my numbers are split, I still initially felt okay about my chances. But the jump in ranking combined with the amount of scholarship $ they seem to be giving out this year has me thinking that they can afford to be really picky right now. And my optimism is starting to feel more like delusion as the days pass.

Good luck to those still waiting!

AngelAuthor
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby AngelAuthor » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:06 am

kaya_belly wrote:But the jump in ranking combined with the amount of scholarship $ they seem to be giving out this year has me thinking that they can afford to be really picky right now. And my optimism is starting to feel more like delusion as the days pass.

My thoughts as well. I've already registered to take the June LSAT to get that score up (I studied for and took it while working full time AND taking 6 upper division classes last fall... didn't do so hot). And I've re-registered at ASU starting this fall for a 2nd degree to tie me over to a second try next year just in case.

AsexualChocolate
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby AsexualChocolate » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:14 am

Still no word yet, but does anybody know to whom the seat deposit check should be made out to? (and don't say "alvin adams," etc...). :roll:

msbeautifulbasham
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby msbeautifulbasham » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:28 am

AsexualChocolate wrote:Still no word yet, but does anybody know to whom the seat deposit check should be made out to? (and don't say "alvin adams," etc...). :roll:


checks should be written to Arizona State University.

and c'mon, sexual! ASU better let you in!

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Padimud
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby Padimud » Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:08 am

sundevil77 wrote:
aIvin adams wrote:
Yellowcard wrote:So by changing the employment data they jumped 17 spots? Is that really all they had to do? Was there anything legitimate that they may have done (statistically speaking) that improved their position?


according to dean berman, lsat scores have been rising. lsat, expenditures per student, and student/fac ratio are all usnwr criteria iirc and have all been improving at asu.


@Yellowcard- They could have simply reported students employed in non-J.D. jobs as being "employed." I'm not saying they did this, but schools can legitimately manipulate this number a bit.

As alvin adams suggests, lsat scores have been rising, although their 75% is 1 point off of UA's. The student/fac ratio is quite low. Again, this number doesn't reflect the availability of course offerings or accessibility of faculty.

I think that most people's problem with the USNWR rankings is that the data can be manipulated, or they don't reflect important measures of a school's quality. The system uses poor metrics. Then again, GPA is a terrible metric, but it is one of the chief components in law school admissions.

Bottom line: UA and ASU are very similar. Statistics can be manipulated to move a school up or down. Variations in rankings, especially schools in the 30-60 range, are not all that important. You should go to the school you like best or that offers you the best financial package.


I second this consideration. I know the LSAT median has never been higher than the current 1L class and they had a two- year endowment which gave them more money to throw at that 1L and the current incoming class. That endowment will be gone after this year and they will have to make strides based on perception. The only way to keep that gravy train to keep moving was to throw money and hope it stuck with good applicants and make that employment number increase. With the weight to LSAT alone it would not have been enough to make such a dramatic jump. The employment numbers had to be amazing and believable. While they get an "A" for effort on making them amazing, I have serious doubts that they are believable. The current 3Ls I spoke with there a few weeks ago are still scrambling and their perception was that 40-50% may have something legal by graduation. Not 90%, 40 or 50%. Outside legal, Phoenix is a large place where jobs can be found.... but legal jobs?

Bottom line: This is not going to effect the recruitment or perception from those in the field, not matter what USNEWS says. I tried for a month after data was due to get Career Services at ASU to give me something concrete on their placement in NLJ250 firms. They repeatedly pushed me to their 2007 data - Different economy = different outcome. I love ASU but something smells super fishy about this.

ppljones
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby ppljones » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:48 pm

The admissions office just assured me that I would hear by May. What an absolute joke! I heard months ago from every other school and have already had seat deposits due. Oh well... their loss, not mine. Good luck to the rest of you!

Usernamepassword
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby Usernamepassword » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:06 pm

I just called as well and was told a few more weeks. If it were any school other than ASU i would have withdrawn by now....but ASU is my top choice.... I fear i'll be waiting through the summer....

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aIvin adams
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby aIvin adams » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:40 pm

really sorry to hear about so many people who want to go to asu but havent heard back. thats not right. im sure that asu is doing the best it can this year, but i hope they reflect on their admissions procedure and find issues to address so that they do a better job next year.

to those of you still waiting loyally: good luck, i know its worth it. hopefully this doesnt sour you on how much the school wants you and wants you to succeed when you get there.

Usernamepassword
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby Usernamepassword » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:16 pm

I know there are many current students that browse these forums and was hoping you could answer this. Is the ASU admissions staff a good representation of how the school runs? I ask because I have been told numerous dates that i'd have a decision, and i still don't have one.

I don't want to be in career services and have them tell me to 'check back later' every time i ask a question, or to have inaccessible professors.

Of course I understand they are busy, but everyone is busy. Career services will be busy when we're all hunting for jobs, and i dont want "busy" to mean that I won't get any individual assistance.

Any current students have any good/bad experiences with faculty/staff?

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Bustang
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby Bustang » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:32 pm

Withdrew. Hopefully my scholly goes to one of you guys!

whiteacre
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby whiteacre » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:48 pm

Overall I would say the admin staff is good here. Re: fin aid, the door is always open and getting a meeting has never been a problem. Re: career services, they have been helpful and responsive as many 1L's have been looking for summer work over the last few mths, and many have either gotten paid work or have externships. Re: admissions I don't really know. I can say that at least one person I know here didnt get offered a spot until the very last day before classes started, but this is probably the exception and not the rule for most.

mepg
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby mepg » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:51 pm

Usernamepassword wrote:I know there are many current students that browse these forums and was hoping you could answer this. Is the ASU admissions staff a good representation of how the school runs? I ask because I have been told numerous dates that i'd have a decision, and i still don't have one.

I don't want to be in career services and have them tell me to 'check back later' every time i ask a question, or to have inaccessible professors.

Of course I understand they are busy, but everyone is busy. Career services will be busy when we're all hunting for jobs, and i dont want "busy" to mean that I won't get any individual assistance.

Any current students have any good/bad experiences with faculty/staff?



Not at all. I will say I really like the admissions staff; I really think they are trying to better their procedures. Usually, decisions are not all out until the end of May (so it seems like they are really making an effort; although they don't seem to be succeeding). It might be that they are waiting to see how many people deposit so they can make definite decisions, as opposed to waitlisting people (although they should just tell students that; I am not sure). I have run into no problems with any department being too busy to see me. In general, the administration is great and really seems to want to be accessible to students. I will be doing my volunteer hour in admissions today and will see if I can get any info. Hang in there everyone; I remember how painful this process was.

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samer
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby samer » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:54 pm

Usernamepassword wrote:I just called as well and was told a few more weeks. If it were any school other than ASU i would have withdrawn by now....but ASU is my top choice.... I fear i'll be waiting through the summer....


Wait...why? I just called yesterday and they said they're making the majority of their decision by this Friday.

Usernamepassword
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby Usernamepassword » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:25 pm

samer wrote:
Usernamepassword wrote:I just called as well and was told a few more weeks. If it were any school other than ASU i would have withdrawn by now....but ASU is my top choice.... I fear i'll be waiting through the summer....


Wait...why? I just called yesterday and they said they're making the majority of their decision by this Friday.



Maybe i received a more general safe answer? I hope that whoever talked to you is correct and that we hear by tomorrow.

kaya_belly
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby kaya_belly » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:09 pm

aIvin adams wrote:really sorry to hear about so many people who want to go to asu but havent heard back. thats not right. im sure that asu is doing the best it can this year, but i hope they reflect on their admissions procedure and find issues to address so that they do a better job next year.

to those of you still waiting loyally: good luck, i know its worth it. hopefully this doesnt sour you on how much the school wants you and wants you to succeed when you get there.


I admit that not getting to experience the in-the-ground trampoline at the Dean's house has left me a bit sour :x

If I do get accepted, I am going to request that he invite me over for a jump-a-thon to make up for my loss.

kaya_belly
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby kaya_belly » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Usernamepassword wrote:I just called as well and was told a few more weeks. If it were any school other than ASU i would have withdrawn by now....but ASU is my top choice.... I fear i'll be waiting through the summer....


I can relate. ASU is really my only choice at this point. I can't realistically move anywhere right now, so it's ASU or nothing.

AsexualChocolate
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby AsexualChocolate » Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:17 pm

It was initially my impression that the ASU admissions office was just understaffed and overworked, but I'm pretty sure all admissions offices are. At this point, I don't think it's a matter of inability, but rather a lack of willingness to get everything done. It seems that ASU caught wind of their increase in the rankings and decided to drag their feet to see how many of their wishlist students matriculate by the deposit deadline when in years past, the cusp I (and many others) find myself on, would have been the tail end of the admitted students line. It's one thing if you are overwhelmed by work and can't give all applications a fair shake by the deposit deadline. It's a completely different thing if you are going to string people along with other deposits due for fear that you'll chase them away by waitlisting them. I find this self-serving delay irresponsible and reprehensible. For Eff's sake, be considerate and at least start loading up your waitlist... Although ASU remains my top choice (mostly due to negative home equity), at this point I'm hoping for a waitlist or rejection to justify a move and so I don't have to look back with any regret for going elsewhere.

<~~~~Bitter Barry

shock259
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby shock259 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:03 pm

ASU was my number 1. Then I got accepted to Tulane and the seat deposit was due. Now it looks like I'm going to Nolo.

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quickquestionthanks
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby quickquestionthanks » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:52 am

I realize that emotions fly high when determining our futures, but seriously, the entire admissions process is such that we are at their mercy. That's the name of the game. I don't see any reason to get angry or indignant for them taking their sweet ass time. You'd do the same without one iota of consideration for the applicants' feelings.

AsexualChocolate
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby AsexualChocolate » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:55 am

quickquestionthanks wrote:I realize that emotions fly high when determining our futures, but seriously, the entire admissions process is such that we are at their mercy. That's the name of the game. I don't see any reason to get angry or indignant for them taking their sweet ass time. You'd do the same without one iota of consideration for the applicants' feelings.


Feelings. Nothing more than feelings... Not about feelings friend. It's about the cash. I don't particularly care to, nor can I necessarily afford to, throw away the extra money on more than one school's seat deposit when I've got this giant money pit awaiting me in the next three years (not to mention the upside-down mortgage I'll have to remedy before I go elsewhere). Already threw away a thousand-plus dollars on applications. That was supposed to be the gamble; not the seat deposit because some school wants to pussy-foot their way around handing out rejections and spots on their waitlist. Sure it's just a few hundred bucks, but those few hundred bucks add up quickly (could be my parking pass for the next year). You pay for something (ie the application), you expect to get something in return (a decision within a reasonable amount of time). And, yes, to answer your next question, I am gonna cry about it... Cuz I've got absolutely nothing to do but sit around and pull out my hair about these damned decisions and inefficient programs. I do see reason to get angry and indignant. I ain't no rich fool.

Ah... That felt good. Somebody change the subject already...

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quickquestionthanks
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby quickquestionthanks » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:42 am

AsexualChocolate wrote:
quickquestionthanks wrote:I realize that emotions fly high when determining our futures, but seriously, the entire admissions process is such that we are at their mercy. That's the name of the game. I don't see any reason to get angry or indignant for them taking their sweet ass time. You'd do the same without one iota of consideration for the applicants' feelings.


Feelings. Nothing more than feelings... Not about feelings friend. It's about the cash. I don't particularly care to, nor can I necessarily afford to, throw away the extra money on more than one school's seat deposit when I've got this giant money pit awaiting me in the next three years (not to mention the upside-down mortgage I'll have to remedy before I go elsewhere). Already threw away a thousand-plus dollars on applications. That was supposed to be the gamble; not the seat deposit because some school wants to pussy-foot their way around handing out rejections and spots on their waitlist. Sure it's just a few hundred bucks, but those few hundred bucks add up quickly (could be my parking pass for the next year). You pay for something (ie the application), you expect to get something in return (a decision within a reasonable amount of time). And, yes, to answer your next question, I am gonna cry about it... Cuz I've got absolutely nothing to do but sit around and pull out my hair about these damned decisions and inefficient programs. I do see reason to get angry and indignant. I ain't no rich fool.

Ah... That felt good. Somebody change the subject already...



^^^proof you do not have to be rich to have entitlement issues

I am not trying to antagonize you, honestly. But Jesus, get over it. You want something from them, so it is going to happen on their schedule. There is a reason they have a deposit system; most people do not get accepted after the deadline and most people go to the school at which they place a deposit. If you get accepted after you deposit elsewhere, is that $250 a worthwhile sunk cost? Is it not a tiny fraction of your investment in law school?

You can either accept what I am saying as mature and levelheaded, or you can call me an asshole, and act like a whining bitch for the rest of your life. My recommendation, learn to take it in stride.

I do not mean to single you out. There are a lot of people on here who need an attitude adjustment.

AsexualChocolate
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby AsexualChocolate » Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:10 am

Whoa, buddy. Calm yourself now. I'm not gonna get into an online bitchslap fest, but entitlement issues? How about inability to sense the half-serious nature of my whining issues...? I'm sorry I rubbed you the wrong way by expressing an expectation of a reasonable course of action, but I'm not accustomed to bending over and taking it in the arse after I've coughed-up the cash...

This whole time I thought you were a total doucher...but you're not a doucher. Stop the trolling.

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aIvin adams
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Re: What's up with Arizona State (ASU)?

Postby aIvin adams » Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:18 am

quickquestionthanks wrote:I realize that emotions fly high when determining our futures, but seriously, the entire admissions process is such that we are at their mercy. That's the name of the game. I don't see any reason to get angry or indignant for them taking their sweet ass time. You'd do the same without one iota of consideration for the applicants' feelings.


no, i wouldnt.

right now im mad at cox cable. im not a customer, but its mostly bc i just dont want to use them but i feel like i dont have a choice. their advertising is dishonest and ive never appreciated their product or customer service. ugh. as for asu, if they truly didnt give a shit about the prospective students applying, then i would be skeptical about whether they would care much more for them when they are actual law students studying. and if i didnt think they cared about their students, why would i go there? im forking over a lot of cash that could be going to u of a or ucla or nyu (or whatever). we're still consumers and if they're jobbing Asexual then he's got a right to be pissed and complaining about it is probably to our benefit both if asu does care about treating applying students well and if they dont.

still tho, i suspect they do care about not treating prospective students like shit and probably are struggling with a weird admissions cycle and its partner in crime which is all things budget ITE. i can see the logic about asu taking extra time bc of the usnwr jump, but i dont know what else to say about that except its such a logical explanation that i cant say im surprised asu groupthought of it if, in fact, they did.




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