IN AT PENN

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Lermontov
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby Lermontov » Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:51 pm

pleasepickme wrote:I've been given an EXTREMELY generous scholarship by Penn, but I'm still torn between it and Harvard. Penn seems like such a great place to be, but I want to clerk for appellate courts in CA and maybe even take a shot at a Supreme Court clerkship, and I don't know if Penn puts me in a good place to do that. What do you guys think? Anyone in the same situation?


It seems like they do okay with clerkships, but for SCOTUS, H definitely wins. I think one of the speakers at the Penn ASW who got SCOTUS a number of years ago likened it to getting struck by lightning.

bluelovebug
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby bluelovebug » Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:57 pm

Lermontov wrote:
pleasepickme wrote:I've been given an EXTREMELY generous scholarship by Penn, but I'm still torn between it and Harvard. Penn seems like such a great place to be, but I want to clerk for appellate courts in CA and maybe even take a shot at a Supreme Court clerkship, and I don't know if Penn puts me in a good place to do that. What do you guys think? Anyone in the same situation?


It seems like they do okay with clerkships, but for SCOTUS, H definitely wins. I think one of the speakers at the Penn ASW who got SCOTUS a number of years ago likened it to getting struck by lightning.


I am in the exact same position, the scholarship to Penn is incredible but I do want to clerk for a COA (don't really care where) and don't want to eliminate my chances of getting a SCOTUS clerkship. I do know, however, that i eventually want to end up in biglaw and when going through the websites of the V25 and even V10 or V5 firms there are more than enough Penn Law associates listed to make me feel that I have a fair shot of getting there. Is the degree from the more prestigious school really worth all of that debt when in the end i'll end up in the same job I wanted anyway (the only difference being I won't have to devote large portions of my paycheck towards paying off student loans). And as far as the SCOTUS clerkship goes, the Penn law grad who had clerked for Thomas at ASW likened getting a SCOTUS clerkship to being struck by lightning regardless of where you went to law school. Even HYS grads need a TON of luck to get SCOTUS, is it worth 200,000k in debt to go to one of those schools even if you don't get SCOTUS?

I'm really torn on all of this because before this cycle started I was just going to go to the highest ranked law school that I was accepted to (I never really thought I would get a scholarship to T10). Graduating debt free is incredibly appealing to me and I love Penn. But there is still a part of me screaming "you are crazy for turning down HYS!"

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x47point6
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby x47point6 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:01 am

If you do decide to turn down merit money at Penn for HYS, which you should, please do so ASAP. Like Monday.

: D

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tintin
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby tintin » Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:41 am

bluelovebug wrote:
Lermontov wrote:
pleasepickme wrote:I've been given an EXTREMELY generous scholarship by Penn, but I'm still torn between it and Harvard. Penn seems like such a great place to be, but I want to clerk for appellate courts in CA and maybe even take a shot at a Supreme Court clerkship, and I don't know if Penn puts me in a good place to do that. What do you guys think? Anyone in the same situation?


It seems like they do okay with clerkships, but for SCOTUS, H definitely wins. I think one of the speakers at the Penn ASW who got SCOTUS a number of years ago likened it to getting struck by lightning.


I am in the exact same position, the scholarship to Penn is incredible but I do want to clerk for a COA (don't really care where) and don't want to eliminate my chances of getting a SCOTUS clerkship. I do know, however, that i eventually want to end up in biglaw and when going through the websites of the V25 and even V10 or V5 firms there are more than enough Penn Law associates listed to make me feel that I have a fair shot of getting there. Is the degree from the more prestigious school really worth all of that debt when in the end i'll end up in the same job I wanted anyway (the only difference being I won't have to devote large portions of my paycheck towards paying off student loans). And as far as the SCOTUS clerkship goes, the Penn law grad who had clerked for Thomas at ASW likened getting a SCOTUS clerkship to being struck by lightning regardless of where you went to law school. Even HYS grads need a TON of luck to get SCOTUS, is it worth 200,000k in debt to go to one of those schools even if you don't get SCOTUS?

I'm really torn on all of this because before this cycle started I was just going to go to the highest ranked law school that I was accepted to (I never really thought I would get a scholarship to T10). Graduating debt free is incredibly appealing to me and I love Penn. But there is still a part of me screaming "you are crazy for turning down HYS!"


I totally am having this issue with chicago. I don't want to do biglaw, but i want to have the opportunity to have a fighting chance at a SCOTUS/COA clerkship and academia. I liked the atmosphere at Penn a lot more than at chicago but I don't want to shut these doors.

Thoughts on how much this matters in terms of getting these opportunities?

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Lermontov
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby Lermontov » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:53 am

bluelovebug wrote:
Lermontov wrote:
pleasepickme wrote:I've been given an EXTREMELY generous scholarship by Penn, but I'm still torn between it and Harvard. Penn seems like such a great place to be, but I want to clerk for appellate courts in CA and maybe even take a shot at a Supreme Court clerkship, and I don't know if Penn puts me in a good place to do that. What do you guys think? Anyone in the same situation?


It seems like they do okay with clerkships, but for SCOTUS, H definitely wins. I think one of the speakers at the Penn ASW who got SCOTUS a number of years ago likened it to getting struck by lightning.


I am in the exact same position, the scholarship to Penn is incredible but I do want to clerk for a COA (don't really care where) and don't want to eliminate my chances of getting a SCOTUS clerkship. I do know, however, that i eventually want to end up in biglaw and when going through the websites of the V25 and even V10 or V5 firms there are more than enough Penn Law associates listed to make me feel that I have a fair shot of getting there. Is the degree from the more prestigious school really worth all of that debt when in the end i'll end up in the same job I wanted anyway (the only difference being I won't have to devote large portions of my paycheck towards paying off student loans). And as far as the SCOTUS clerkship goes, the Penn law grad who had clerked for Thomas at ASW likened getting a SCOTUS clerkship to being struck by lightning regardless of where you went to law school. Even HYS grads need a TON of luck to get SCOTUS, is it worth 200,000k in debt to go to one of those schools even if you don't get SCOTUS?

I'm really torn on all of this because before this cycle started I was just going to go to the highest ranked law school that I was accepted to (I never really thought I would get a scholarship to T10). Graduating debt free is incredibly appealing to me and I love Penn. But there is still a part of me screaming "you are crazy for turning down HYS!"


I suppose that's true. But when you look through the ranks of SCOTUS clerks (and even COA) and see 15 times more H grads than Penn, it makes you think that maybe coming from Penn it's like one particular person amongst a crowd getting struck by lightning, while coming from H it's like a tall tree in an open field getting struck. Unlikely, but not earth shatteringly unlikely if you do well.

bluelovebug
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby bluelovebug » Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:02 am

tintin wrote:I suppose that's true. But when you look through the ranks of SCOTUS clerks (and even COA) and see 15 times more H grads than Penn, it makes you think that maybe coming from Penn it's like one particular person amongst a crowd getting struck by lightning, while coming from H it's like a tall tree in an open field getting struck. Unlikely, but not earth shatteringly unlikely if you do well.



I agree 100% that a HYS grad is much, much, more likely to get SCOTUS. But even coming from Yale (which had the highest placement on the court for the 2009-2010 term, both in raw numbers and percentages) your shot is less than 5%. I guess I just haven't decided yet whether or not, for me personally, I am willing to pay 200K for a less than 5% chance at SCOTUS.

x47point6 wrote:I totally am having this issue with chicago. I don't want to do biglaw, but i want to have the opportunity to have a fighting chance at a SCOTUS/COA clerkship and academia. I liked the atmosphere at Penn a lot more than at chicago but I don't want to shut these doors.

Thoughts on how much this matters in terms of getting these opportunities?


I think a lot of that depends on how much it matters to you to work in academia at a T20 school....I think it is obvious that Chicago will give you a better shot at academia overall; but if you consider working at lower ranked schools then I don't think the difference between Penn and Chicago will matter as much. For example, University of Iowa is ranked 26 in USNWR and less than half of their faculty come from a T10 law school (and many of those are from Mich/Penn)

Basically, I think it will be much easier to accomplish pretty much any goal coming from HYS or Chicago than it will be from Penn, but that isn't to say that it will be impossible. But the only reason I haven't already sent in my deposit to Penn is that I am also afraid it will be shutting doors; I don't want to look back on this decision later and have regrets.

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Core
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby Core » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:43 pm

MeasuredOptimism wrote:Going to Preview Day tomorrow. Anyone else?

Was going to, but I got in like 3 hours before my train and could not manage the trek while falling asleep lol.
How was it?

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tintin
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby tintin » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:49 pm

bluelovebug wrote:
I think a lot of that depends on how much it matters to you to work in academia at a T20 school....I think it is obvious that Chicago will give you a better shot at academia overall; but if you consider working at lower ranked schools then I don't think the difference between Penn and Chicago will matter as much. For example, University of Iowa is ranked 26 in USNWR and less than half of their faculty come from a T10 law school (and many of those are from Mich/Penn)

Basically, I think it will be much easier to accomplish pretty much any goal coming from HYS or Chicago than it will be from Penn, but that isn't to say that it will be impossible. But the only reason I haven't already sent in my deposit to Penn is that I am also afraid it will be shutting doors; I don't want to look back on this decision later and have regrets.


Interesting, I thought that academia was pretty much difficult across the board to get into, and that even yale/harvard/stanford grads worked at lower ranked school in the beginning.

what this decision seems to be coming down for (to me) is either somewhere i think id be way more comfortable and have a better time in a place i like, or go somewhere that i have mixed feelings about the student body/location but the academics(or at least career placement potential) are clearly superior. sigh.

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Lermontov
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby Lermontov » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:58 pm

bluelovebug wrote:But the only reason I haven't already sent in my deposit to Penn is that I am also afraid it will be shutting doors; I don't want to look back on this decision later and have regrets.


If you actually think you might have regrets down the road, then go with H. I don't know if I agree that Penn limits you in that sense - I haven't had the opportunity to warrant really thinking about it - but if it's possible that it will then you should go with H. Money is only money. Experiences and time cannot be re-had.

MeasuredOptimism
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby MeasuredOptimism » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:28 am

Core wrote:
MeasuredOptimism wrote:Going to Preview Day tomorrow. Anyone else?

Was going to, but I got in like 3 hours before my train and could not manage the trek while falling asleep lol.
How was it?


Overall, good. Pretty typical admitted students event. I'm agonizing over whether or not I'm going to commit to take the Levy (deadline Wednesday).

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Core
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby Core » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:48 am

MeasuredOptimism wrote:
Core wrote:
MeasuredOptimism wrote:Going to Preview Day tomorrow. Anyone else?

Was going to, but I got in like 3 hours before my train and could not manage the trek while falling asleep lol.
How was it?


Overall, good. Pretty typical admitted students event. I'm agonizing over whether or not I'm going to commit to take the Levy (deadline Wednesday).

What are your other options?

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Lermontov
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby Lermontov » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:25 pm

MeasuredOptimism wrote:
Core wrote:
MeasuredOptimism wrote:Going to Preview Day tomorrow. Anyone else?

Was going to, but I got in like 3 hours before my train and could not manage the trek while falling asleep lol.
How was it?


Overall, good. Pretty typical admitted students event. I'm agonizing over whether or not I'm going to commit to take the Levy (deadline Wednesday).


Curious how the decision's going...

Also, does anyone have Chris Fritton's email address (the clerkship person...)?

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Georgiana
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby Georgiana » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:37 pm

Lermontov wrote:
MeasuredOptimism wrote:
Core wrote:
MeasuredOptimism wrote:Going to Preview Day tomorrow. Anyone else?

Was going to, but I got in like 3 hours before my train and could not manage the trek while falling asleep lol.
How was it?


Overall, good. Pretty typical admitted students event. I'm agonizing over whether or not I'm going to commit to take the Levy (deadline Wednesday).


Curious how the decision's going...

Also, does anyone have Chris Fritton's email address (the clerkship person...)?

cfritton@law.upenn.edu (its Christine Fritton btw)

pleasepickme
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby pleasepickme » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:44 pm

Lermontov wrote:
bluelovebug wrote:
Lermontov wrote:
pleasepickme wrote:I've been given an EXTREMELY generous scholarship by Penn, but I'm still torn between it and Harvard. Penn seems like such a great place to be, but I want to clerk for appellate courts in CA and maybe even take a shot at a Supreme Court clerkship, and I don't know if Penn puts me in a good place to do that. What do you guys think? Anyone in the same situation?


It seems like they do okay with clerkships, but for SCOTUS, H definitely wins. I think one of the speakers at the Penn ASW who got SCOTUS a number of years ago likened it to getting struck by lightning.


I am in the exact same position, the scholarship to Penn is incredible but I do want to clerk for a COA (don't really care where) and don't want to eliminate my chances of getting a SCOTUS clerkship. I do know, however, that i eventually want to end up in biglaw and when going through the websites of the V25 and even V10 or V5 firms there are more than enough Penn Law associates listed to make me feel that I have a fair shot of getting there. Is the degree from the more prestigious school really worth all of that debt when in the end i'll end up in the same job I wanted anyway (the only difference being I won't have to devote large portions of my paycheck towards paying off student loans). And as far as the SCOTUS clerkship goes, the Penn law grad who had clerked for Thomas at ASW likened getting a SCOTUS clerkship to being struck by lightning regardless of where you went to law school. Even HYS grads need a TON of luck to get SCOTUS, is it worth 200,000k in debt to go to one of those schools even if you don't get SCOTUS?

I'm really torn on all of this because before this cycle started I was just going to go to the highest ranked law school that I was accepted to (I never really thought I would get a scholarship to T10). Graduating debt free is incredibly appealing to me and I love Penn. But there is still a part of me screaming "you are crazy for turning down HYS!"


I suppose that's true. But when you look through the ranks of SCOTUS clerks (and even COA) and see 15 times more H grads than Penn, it makes you think that maybe coming from Penn it's like one particular person amongst a crowd getting struck by lightning, while coming from H it's like a tall tree in an open field getting struck. Unlikely, but not earth shatteringly unlikely if you do well.


This is the feeling I got after talking to both Penn and Harvard students/grads. All the Harvard students knew of at least one or two people in their class who had gotten one, and the Penn people all pointed to that one guy that spoke remotely at ASD.

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FunkyJD
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby FunkyJD » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:50 pm

Got my second status checker update in two weeks today. Was UR 4/7, now listed as UR 4/13. Is there a consistent pattern as to when Penn issues a decision after status checker updates? Or is it just "you hear when you hear."

And by which modes of communication does Penn notify you of acceptance, WL, or rejection respectively?

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Lermontov
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby Lermontov » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:33 pm

Georgiana wrote:
Lermontov wrote:
Also, does anyone have Chris Fritton's email address (the clerkship person...)?

cfritton@law.upenn.edu (its Christine Fritton btw)


Thanks :)

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alirod12
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby alirod12 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:02 pm

Come on Penn...match one of my scholarships! I'll send in my deposit tomorrow!

lz06
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby lz06 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:51 am

they just gave me the 75k wilson (I had the 60k). not enough so will be withdrawing soon

Action Jackson
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby Action Jackson » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:04 pm

Lermontov wrote:
bluelovebug wrote:
Lermontov wrote:
pleasepickme wrote:I
It seems like they do okay with clerkships, but for SCOTUS, H definitely wins. I think one of the speakers at the Penn ASW who got SCOTUS a number of years ago likened it to getting struck by lightning.


I am in the exact same position, the scholarship to Penn is incredible but I do want to clerk for a COA (don't really care where) and don't want to eliminate my chances of getting a SCOTUS clerkship. I do know, however, that i eventually want to end up in biglaw and when going through the websites of the V25 and even V10 or V5 firms there are more than enough Penn Law associates listed to make me feel that I have a fair shot of getting there. Is the degree from the more prestigious school really worth all of that debt when in the end i'll end up in the same job I wanted anyway (the only difference being I won't have to devote large portions of my paycheck towards paying off student loans). And as far as the SCOTUS clerkship goes, the Penn law grad who had clerked for Thomas at ASW likened getting a SCOTUS clerkship to being struck by lightning regardless of where you went to law school. Even HYS grads need a TON of luck to get SCOTUS, is it worth 200,000k in debt to go to one of those schools even if you don't get SCOTUS?

I'm really torn on all of this because before this cycle started I was just going to go to the highest ranked law school that I was accepted to (I never really thought I would get a scholarship to T10). Graduating debt free is incredibly appealing to me and I love Penn. But there is still a part of me screaming "you are crazy for turning down HYS!"


I suppose that's true. But when you look through the ranks of SCOTUS clerks (and even COA) and see 15 times more H grads than Penn, it makes you think that maybe coming from Penn it's like one particular person amongst a crowd getting struck by lightning, while coming from H it's like a tall tree in an open field getting struck. Unlikely, but not earth shatteringly unlikely if you do well.


This is the feeling I got after talking to both Penn and Harvard students/grads. All the Harvard students knew of at least one or two people in their class who had gotten one, and the Penn people all pointed to that one guy that spoke remotely at ASD.

Are you kids for real?

Ask yourself: what happens if you go to law school and you end up with median grades? I know, I know, you won't, but let's pretend. Do you think you're going to get a SCOTUS clerkship then? Hell no. But you will have the debt.

If you go to Penn law and you're top 1%, then transfer to Yale or Harvard and set your sights on SCOTUS. But if you're not, and there's a 99% chance you won't be, then you'll have saved a ton of money. You need to be the best and brightest at any law school you go to get SCOTUS. If you can do that at Penn, then you can figure out how to maximize your life. But if you're not, and you probably won't be, then you'll know you never had a chance for SCOTUS.

We all want to get that unattainable brass ring, but don't be naive enough to think it's something you can just get by wanting it. Make sensible choices.

lawschoollll
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby lawschoollll » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:10 pm

If I had H vs. Penn $ I think I would probably take H. Yea you'll have debt from H, but the chances of you coming out of H and struggling to re-pay those loans seem as remote as coming out of Penn and getting SCOTUS.

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SteakEmUp
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby SteakEmUp » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:42 pm

pleasepickme wrote:This is the feeling I got after talking to both Penn and Harvard students/grads. All the Harvard students knew of at least one or two people in their class who had gotten one, and the Penn people all pointed to that one guy that spoke remotely at ASD.


Look at Harvard's class size, though. 1 clerk/2.5 years at Penn = 1 clerk/year at Harvard, if you compare the two based on number of graduates instead of by year.

Also (not that it means much), it looks like Penn moved back into the #7 slot for the 2011 USNWR rankings.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=114393

MeasuredOptimism
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby MeasuredOptimism » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:19 pm

Taking the Levy. Hope to see you at Penn in the fall!

cflames7
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby cflames7 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:47 pm

Withdrew from Penn today, leaving the Levy Scholarship behind.

Hardest decision I have ever made. Aged me a couple of years from the stress, i am sure.

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alirod12
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby alirod12 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:17 am

Fuckin' A flames, I know what you mean.

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tintin
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Re: IN AT PENN

Postby tintin » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:37 pm

cflames7 wrote:Withdrew from Penn today, leaving the Levy Scholarship behind.

Hardest decision I have ever made. Aged me a couple of years from the stress, i am sure.


ill take it..... :lol:




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