Top Law Schools

theorangewon wrote:
Even full tuition scholarships require taking on a significant debt burden when the school refuses to allow students to work, and if you hope to work outside of a 200 mile radius of Virginia, you’ll be completely on your own in trying to find a job. You’ll be looked at like a leper for talking about a cost-benefit analysis of going to law school and if you try to say the school is anything but perfect, you can expect the administration to blackball you from every level of involvement with the school officially, and often socially as well

That's interesting to me. On LST literally 70% of their class leave VA and about half of all grads go to states that don't even border VA. I can't see how the school "blackballs" half their graduates.

Not saying that ATL poster is lying, just has me scratching my head and thinking that it may be a personal experience that motivated that post

mrtux45 wrote:

theorangewon wrote:
Even full tuition scholarships require taking on a significant debt burden when the school refuses to allow students to work, and if you hope to work outside of a 200 mile radius of Virginia, you’ll be completely on your own in trying to find a job. You’ll be looked at like a leper for talking about a cost-benefit analysis of going to law school and if you try to say the school is anything but perfect, you can expect the administration to blackball you from every level of involvement with the school officially, and often socially as well

That's interesting to me. On LST literally 70% of their class leave VA and about half of all grads go to states that don't even border VA. I can't see how the school "blackballs" half their graduates.

Not saying that ATL poster is lying, just has me scratching my head and thinking that it may be a personal experience that motivated that post

Agree with that. I'm from Arkansas and I know a big contingent of one of the biggest Little Rock firms is made up of W&L grads. LST lists no presence in Arkansas, probably because this firm is very old and predates that service. So LST definitely has some holes, and I think W&L has a much broader reach than it suggests.

mrtux45 wrote:

theorangewon wrote:
Even full tuition scholarships require taking on a significant debt burden when the school refuses to allow students to work, and if you hope to work outside of a 200 mile radius of Virginia, you’ll be completely on your own in trying to find a job. You’ll be looked at like a leper for talking about a cost-benefit analysis of going to law school and if you try to say the school is anything but perfect, you can expect the administration to blackball you from every level of involvement with the school officially, and often socially as well

That's interesting to me. On LST literally 70% of their class leave VA and about half of all grads go to states that don't even border VA. I can't see how the school "blackballs" half their graduates.

Not saying that ATL poster is lying, just has me scratching my head and thinking that it may be a personal experience that motivated that post

yeah, per the ABA disclosure they have pretty wide distribution especially for such a small class. anecdotally i was told that W&L is a "good ol' boys" law school with a very strong alumni network, which doesn't look to be entirely concentrated in virginia.

amta wrote:

mrtux45 wrote:

theorangewon wrote:
Even full tuition scholarships require taking on a significant debt burden when the school refuses to allow students to work, and if you hope to work outside of a 200 mile radius of Virginia, you’ll be completely on your own in trying to find a job. You’ll be looked at like a leper for talking about a cost-benefit analysis of going to law school and if you try to say the school is anything but perfect, you can expect the administration to blackball you from every level of involvement with the school officially, and often socially as well

That's interesting to me. On LST literally 70% of their class leave VA and about half of all grads go to states that don't even border VA. I can't see how the school "blackballs" half their graduates.

Not saying that ATL poster is lying, just has me scratching my head and thinking that it may be a personal experience that motivated that post

yeah, per the ABA disclosure they have pretty wide distribution especially for such a small class. anecdotally i was told that W&L is a "good ol' boys" law school with a very strong alumni network, which doesn't look to be entirely concentrated in virginia.

So what I'm gathering is that if you go to W&L drink the kool-aid and don't look back.

Charlie802 wrote:

amta wrote: yeah, per the ABA disclosure they have pretty wide distribution especially for such a small class. anecdotally i was told that W&L is a "good ol' boys" law school with a very strong alumni network, which doesn't look to be entirely concentrated in virginia.

So what I'm gathering is that if you go to W&L drink the kool-aid and don't look back.

yeah. ftr, i dont think drinking the kool-aid at any school you attend is a bad thing. you might as well like what will like be the second biggest purchase you make in your life.

jcburns wrote:

toplaw01 wrote:

WamBamThankYouMaam wrote:

LawBuckeye12 wrote:

ap23 wrote:Anybody know what's going on with W&L's numbers this year? They're giving out a ton of money on LSN, way more than usual, and the FB for admitted students has 190 people in it already. They only matriculated 100-120 the past 4 years or so. Wondering if they're expecting a drop in rankings?

Was wondering the same thing with the class size. I know the FB group has some people that are already students and some students undecided but it seems like they are gonna get more than 120 (which is a shame). Wouldn't expect a drop in the rankings because their jobs numbers really picked up although their median LSAT is low compared to schools around them in rank.

I wouldn't assume that all 190 people in the accepted students page will eventually attend. According to their 509 they accepted 895 students last year and 117 enrolled. The class size might be a little higher because of the increased aid amounts, but I think W&L is really trying to raise their medians to get back to their mid-20's ranking. After their rank dropped 17 spots in 2013, W&L fired the dean and began to focus on job placement to improve their rank. Now, they're probably also trying to raise medians, by giving out a lot of merit aid, to increase their rank more.

I think it's their strategy to improve the ranking. Their employment outcome was pretty decent last year and their employment is the same or better this year . I think they aim to improve their LSAT and GPA next year in purpose of moving up in the ranking!

Considering all of this, I'm surprised that they are still sending email invitations to apply. I received one last night. It's probably a hail mary but I figured it was worth a shot. I applied last night.

Same here...I really haven't heard that much about W&L and I can't seem to find many alumni in the BigLaw firms in NYC, but the rankings boost makes them much more attractive.

dbalkaran wrote:

jcburns wrote:

toplaw01 wrote:

WamBamThankYouMaam wrote:

LawBuckeye12 wrote:

ap23 wrote:Anybody know what's going on with W&L's numbers this year? They're giving out a ton of money on LSN, way more than usual, and the FB for admitted students has 190 people in it already. They only matriculated 100-120 the past 4 years or so. Wondering if they're expecting a drop in rankings?

Was wondering the same thing with the class size. I know the FB group has some people that are already students and some students undecided but it seems like they are gonna get more than 120 (which is a shame). Wouldn't expect a drop in the rankings because their jobs numbers really picked up although their median LSAT is low compared to schools around them in rank.

I wouldn't assume that all 190 people in the accepted students page will eventually attend. According to their 509 they accepted 895 students last year and 117 enrolled. The class size might be a little higher because of the increased aid amounts, but I think W&L is really trying to raise their medians to get back to their mid-20's ranking. After their rank dropped 17 spots in 2013, W&L fired the dean and began to focus on job placement to improve their rank. Now, they're probably also trying to raise medians, by giving out a lot of merit aid, to increase their rank more.

I think it's their strategy to improve the ranking. Their employment outcome was pretty decent last year and their employment is the same or better this year . I think they aim to improve their LSAT and GPA next year in purpose of moving up in the ranking!

Considering all of this, I'm surprised that they are still sending email invitations to apply. I received one last night. It's probably a hail mary but I figured it was worth a shot. I applied last night.

Same here...I really haven't heard that much about W&L and I can't seem to find many alumni in the BigLaw firms in NYC, but the rankings boost makes them much more attractive.

I'm wondering if the goal is to have a bigger class. Meaning more alumni meaning a potential increase for big law opportunity in the future which will translate to higher rankings. So they are trying to get people to apply and are giving scholarships to get those people to attend. Just a thought.

It's true that most of W&L graduates will not stay in VA, and I do not think it is egregious because their employment is pretty decent. W&L does not have major legal market, but they're still fine to land a job (at graduation rate is ~60% if I remembered correctly). In other words, W&L reputation is "fine" for national reach because if they do not know have national prestige and major legal market, it is easy to fall behind for other law schools in employment, but they do not.

P/s It's just my two cents!

Charlie802 wrote:

dbalkaran wrote:

jcburns wrote:

toplaw01 wrote:

WamBamThankYouMaam wrote:

LawBuckeye12 wrote:

ap23 wrote:Anybody know what's going on with W&L's numbers this year? They're giving out a ton of money on LSN, way more than usual, and the FB for admitted students has 190 people in it already. They only matriculated 100-120 the past 4 years or so. Wondering if they're expecting a drop in rankings?

Was wondering the same thing with the class size. I know the FB group has some people that are already students and some students undecided but it seems like they are gonna get more than 120 (which is a shame). Wouldn't expect a drop in the rankings because their jobs numbers really picked up although their median LSAT is low compared to schools around them in rank.

I wouldn't assume that all 190 people in the accepted students page will eventually attend. According to their 509 they accepted 895 students last year and 117 enrolled. The class size might be a little higher because of the increased aid amounts, but I think W&L is really trying to raise their medians to get back to their mid-20's ranking. After their rank dropped 17 spots in 2013, W&L fired the dean and began to focus on job placement to improve their rank. Now, they're probably also trying to raise medians, by giving out a lot of merit aid, to increase their rank more.

I think it's their strategy to improve the ranking. Their employment outcome was pretty decent last year and their employment is the same or better this year . I think they aim to improve their LSAT and GPA next year in purpose of moving up in the ranking!

Considering all of this, I'm surprised that they are still sending email invitations to apply. I received one last night. It's probably a hail mary but I figured it was worth a shot. I applied last night.

Same here...I really haven't heard that much about W&L and I can't seem to find many alumni in the BigLaw firms in NYC, but the rankings boost makes them much more attractive.

I'm wondering if the goal is to have a bigger class. Meaning more alumni meaning a potential increase for big law opportunity in the future which will translate to higher rankings. So they are trying to get people to apply and are giving scholarships to get those people to attend. Just a thought.

I think W&L found out they need more W&L alumni. They offer a ton of money to improve their class size and LSAT median

toplaw01 wrote:

Charlie802 wrote:
I'm wondering if the goal is to have a bigger class. Meaning more alumni meaning a potential increase for big law opportunity in the future which will translate to higher rankings. So they are trying to get people to apply and are giving scholarships to get those people to attend. Just a thought.

I think W&L found out they need more W&L alumni. They offer a ton of money to improve their class size and LSAT median

I agree with that and I think they're also trying to buy an increase in their medians. They knew they were going to have some positive perceptions with the big increase in rankings and are trying to capitalize. That endowment they have is huge so why not spend I guess.

Still seems very much like a "fit" school that's not for everyone. Have to be ok in a small town at a small school with a southern, relationship-building type of culture. I also wonder how much of a range of resources in terms of class offerings and externships a school that size in the middle of nowhere has to offer. Have to weigh that great scholarship against schools with a more dynamic/diverse student-body and better opportunities to network/get hands on experience.

ap23 wrote:
Still seems very much like a "fit" school that's not for everyone. Have to be ok in a small town at a small school with a southern, relationship-building type of culture. I also wonder how much of a range of resources in terms of class offerings and externships a school that size in the middle of nowhere has to offer. Have to weigh that great scholarship against schools with a more dynamic/diverse student-body and better opportunities to network/get hands on experience.

They have six clinics to spread across a small student population, one that does death penalty work and run by the guy who defended Dylan Roof, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, and Susan Smith, and a third year program based on simulations of real cases/transactions in addition to externships.

toplaw01 wrote:
I think W&L found out they need more W&L alumni. They offer a ton of money to improve their class size and LSAT median

Aka the WashU strategy from last year (and of course they moved up exactly 0 spots..)

imnottelling wrote:

ap23 wrote:
Still seems very much like a "fit" school that's not for everyone. Have to be ok in a small town at a small school with a southern, relationship-building type of culture. I also wonder how much of a range of resources in terms of class offerings and externships a school that size in the middle of nowhere has to offer. Have to weigh that great scholarship against schools with a more dynamic/diverse student-body and better opportunities to network/get hands on experience.

They have six clinics to spread across a small student population, one that does death penalty work and run by the guy who defended Dylan Roof, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, and Susan Smith, and a third year program based on simulations of real cases/transactions in addition to externships.

Gotcha. I'm not 100% familiar with all of their offerings so I very well could be wrong. I was just basing my statement off of hearing from students at other schools in urban areas say in their 2L and 3L years, they're getting work in firms in the area part-time when they're not in class. Think those opportunities would be limited at W&L unless you're commuting out of town quite a ways.

ap23 wrote:

imnottelling wrote:

ap23 wrote:
Still seems very much like a "fit" school that's not for everyone. Have to be ok in a small town at a small school with a southern, relationship-building type of culture. I also wonder how much of a range of resources in terms of class offerings and externships a school that size in the middle of nowhere has to offer. Have to weigh that great scholarship against schools with a more dynamic/diverse student-body and better opportunities to network/get hands on experience.

They have six clinics to spread across a small student population, one that does death penalty work and run by the guy who defended Dylan Roof, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, and Susan Smith, and a third year program based on simulations of real cases/transactions in addition to externships.

Gotcha. I'm not 100% familiar with all of their offerings so I very well could be wrong. I was just basing my statement off of hearing from students at other schools in urban areas say in their 2L and 3L years, they're getting work in firms in the area part-time when they're not in class. Think those opportunities would be limited at W&L unless you're commuting out of town quite a ways.

I can think of a few, albeit not many, individuals who worked part-time during their third year. However, these were firms nearby (45-60 min commute), they summered at these firms, and had all intentions of being hired by these firms after graduation. It is not out of the realm of possibility, but I didn't really pay attention to what they were doing because it wasn't something I would have wanted to do my second or third year (in part, because I was not going to be practicing at those firms/that area and I kept myself really busy during school with extracurriculars).

Got a scholarship increase about a week after I improved one LSAT point from the Feb test... I live far away in Reno, NV but considering moving. Now that the price is getting more reasonable it is definitely on the top of my list.

I applied March 9, and went under review today! Hoping for a quick decision!

jcburns wrote:I applied March 9, and went under review today! Hoping for a quick decision!

Same here!

pyramidenergy888 wrote:Got a scholarship increase about a week after I improved one LSAT point from the Feb test... I live far away in Reno, NV but considering moving. Now that the price is getting more reasonable it is definitely on the top of my list.

are you going to attend the ASD in march ?

What do you guys think the odds are of being able to land a job in NYC after graduating from W&L? The employment figures seem pretty good at a glance.

Hey all - 2013 W&L grad here. Things are going to be pretty slow during the next couple days at work, so I am happy to answer a couple questions if people have any.

Just to give you an idea as to what my career has been like so you know what I can speak on - I worked at a mildew firm for two years right after graduation. I then went to a one year federal district clerkship and now am working in DC for fed gov. All of these positions have been in or very near Virginia.

Overall I'm a huge fan of the school and look back on my three years fondly, but I'll answer any questions honestly. In a nutshell - it is obviously a small school/town, which comes with clear pros and cons.

Rowinguy2009 wrote:Hey all - 2013 W&L grad here. Things are going to be pretty slow during the next couple days at work, so I am happy to answer a couple questions if people have any.

Just to give you an idea as to what my career has been like so you know what I can speak on - I worked at a mildew firm for two years right after graduation. I then went to a one year federal district clerkship and now am working in DC for fed gov. All of these positions have been in or very near Virginia.

Overall I'm a huge fan of the school and look back on my three years fondly, but I'll answer any questions honestly. In a nutshell - it is obviously a small school/town, which comes with clear pros and cons.

how hard do you think it would be to get a NYC Big Law job from W&L, or a Nyc decent paying medium sized firm job? Thanks in advance for answering !

Admittedly - I have pretty much no experience with this. My off the cuff answer is that you would want to be around top 25%, or maybe even a touch better, to have a decent shot. Between top 25 and 50% is probably possible but very difficult. Bottom half its probably not gonna happen without prior connections or some other awesome selling point. (My 1L and 2L years were pretty close to peak recession, so it's entirely possible that things have gotten a little easier than what I'm ball parking - sorry for the wishy washy answer).

Rowinguy2009 wrote:Admittedly - I have pretty much no experience with this. My off the cuff answer is that you would want to be around top 25%, or maybe even a touch better, to have a decent shot. Between top 25 and 50% is probably possible but very difficult. Bottom half its probably not gonna happen without prior connections or some other awesome selling point. (My 1L and 2L years were pretty close to peak recession, so it's entirely possible that things have gotten a little easier than what I'm ball parking - sorry for the wishy washy answer).

you can only answer what you experienced. Thank you so much for the feedback though.

toplaw01 wrote:

pyramidenergy888 wrote:Got a scholarship increase about a week after I improved one LSAT point from the Feb test... I live far away in Reno, NV but considering moving. Now that the price is getting more reasonable it is definitely on the top of my list.

are you going to attend the ASD in march ?

Possibly... it's a long way to travel from NV. I know they reimburse but would be bringing my SO and would still cost a lot.
edit: yeah just looked airfaire alone is like $600 so probably not I have a bunch of interviews this week because I need to get a job to save up to be able to move across the country in July or August. No savings right now but I can save while my SO makes money for bills. Will probably have to make the decision on where to go without a visit. I only applied to schools that were pretty far away, none in NV or CA, where I am from originally.

Rowinguy2009 wrote:Hey all - 2013 W&L grad here. Things are going to be pretty slow during the next couple days at work, so I am happy to answer a couple questions if people have any.

Just to give you an idea as to what my career has been like so you know what I can speak on - I worked at a mildew firm for two years right after graduation. I then went to a one year federal district clerkship and now am working in DC for fed gov. All of these positions have been in or very near Virginia.

Overall I'm a huge fan of the school and look back on my three years fondly, but I'll answer any questions honestly. In a nutshell - it is obviously a small school/town, which comes with clear pros and cons.

Did the small town drive you crazy? What's the social life like?

Do you know anyone who broke into big law right out? Dc or NYC? I know you mentioned your graduated right in the recession, but any input would be appreciated.

Also can you share what you did for you 1L and 2L summers and how you got those opportunities (connections, career services, etc.)?