Military Law

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thriller1122

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Re: Military Law

Postby thriller1122 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
thriller1122 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Chinese-American here.

How worried should I be about the security clearance process? Not sure if I can provide a link here, but I read an article about Wei Su, an Army engineer who was under extensive investigation for his clearance but all allegations were eventually dropped due to OPM misstatements. Apparently, his ethnic background was a huge cause for concern for the DOD, and some security clearance attorneys are saying that there is almost a blanket ban on Chinese-Americans getting cleared at this point (especially with former gov't officials saying things like "people from China maintain close ties to the homeland that make them particularly vulnerable to recruiting as spies by Chinese intelligence; you’re American-born, but you’re Chinese at heart").

Always wanted to be a JAG, but is it worth taking the offer and rolling the dice with the security clearance? Basically...I don't want to quit my job just to find out I can't get cleared. Is this something I can ask my Officer Selection Officer about?


You can ask about it, but the SSO and the people who make these decisions are really the only ones that can tell you what might happen. Anecdotaly, being Chinese is not a complete bar to any security clearance (I'm most familiar with TS/SCI). There are certain considerations that factor into the decision such as foreign contacts, which is made a lot worse by the fact that you are (I'm assuming) born in China or at least your family was. Obviously it depends on what part of China, what your family/friends/contacts do professionally or used to do.Basically, its complicated, but you can always apply and go through the process. There is no need to quit your job while doing it, so you can go through and if they say no, then they say no. Better to try and get turned down if its something you really want.


Thanks, though I think the process is that people attend OCS/ODS/DCC/OTS, and the security clearance investigation begins concurrently, with an interim clearance issued in the meantime. This is what is most concerning for me - the fact that I won't know if I am cleared or not until very late in the game. I'd be interested in seeing if anyone was able to obtain a full secret clearance, rather than an interim one, prior to training.


I wouldn't be super worried if they let you go to OCS. It is very rare that the military takes someone, they are ineligable for a clearance, and then are discharged. I'm not sure what specifically JAGs need a security clearance for, but if you are already in an trained they would probably just give you assignments that don't require it. At least in intelligence that is the usual process. It wouldn't make sense for the military to commit all the money to on-boarding and training someone they would never employ.

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usn26

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Re: Military Law

Postby usn26 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Chinese-American here.

How worried should I be about the security clearance process? Not sure if I can provide a link here, but I read an article about Wei Su, an Army engineer who was under extensive investigation for his clearance but all allegations were eventually dropped due to OPM misstatements. Apparently, his ethnic background was a huge cause for concern for the DOD, and some security clearance attorneys are saying that there is almost a blanket ban on Chinese-Americans getting cleared at this point (especially with former gov't officials saying things like "people from China maintain close ties to the homeland that make them particularly vulnerable to recruiting as spies by Chinese intelligence; you’re American-born, but you’re Chinese at heart").

Always wanted to be a JAG, but is it worth taking the offer and rolling the dice with the security clearance? Basically...I don't want to quit my job just to find out I can't get cleared. Is this something I can ask my Officer Selection Officer about?


I agree with the last poster.

You can read up on the adjudication guidelines to see what sort of issues you might face. If you were born in the US and are only need a secret I would say the baseline is that you'd be fine, unless there's some sort of obvious cause for concern. Needing a TS, being born on the mainland, having close (nuclear) family members there, a significant history of travel there, etc, could complicate matters. You could always consult a security clearance lawyer if you're really concerned and want an expert opinion before making the commitment.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:36 am

kdial wrote:Current 3L here, I received an offer in December from the Army for AD Alternate list and Army Reserve spot. I accepted both (choosing to stay on the alternate list if an offer should come up and in the alternative, accepted the Reserve offer). I currently have two questions, 1) should I be doing anything on the Army front right now? I was just wondering if I need to be doing anything before I get to deep into bar study (July 2020). 2) Can anyone weigh in on what my chances are of being picked up off the alternate list? I really want to go AD, but I am trying to mentally prepare myself of the chances of that actually happening. Any and all input would be appreciated. Also, for those like me that continually searched this message board trying to decide if you even have a chance to compete with others applying, you do, keep trying.



I can give my experience with AD Army alternate list. I was picked up the very next cycle primary select. Prepare as if you are going Army JAG, and even thought the alt cycle is for the year do not miss the deadline in the October time frame to submit for the next board. You're letting them know you are dead serious about this opportunity. I re-interviewed really quick and let them know everything I did to ready myself to go.

Being chosen as an alternate is a very good sign that they really like what they see, please keep trying.

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Re: Military Law

Postby kdial » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:
kdial wrote:Current 3L here, I received an offer in December from the Army for AD Alternate list and Army Reserve spot. I accepted both (choosing to stay on the alternate list if an offer should come up and in the alternative, accepted the Reserve offer). I currently have two questions, 1) should I be doing anything on the Army front right now? I was just wondering if I need to be doing anything before I get to deep into bar study (July 2020). 2) Can anyone weigh in on what my chances are of being picked up off the alternate list? I really want to go AD, but I am trying to mentally prepare myself of the chances of that actually happening. Any and all input would be appreciated. Also, for those like me that continually searched this message board trying to decide if you even have a chance to compete with others applying, you do, keep trying.



I can give my experience with AD Army alternate list. I was picked up the very next cycle primary select. Prepare as if you are going Army JAG, and even thought the alt cycle is for the year do not miss the deadline in the October time frame to submit for the next board. You're letting them know you are dead serious about this opportunity. I re-interviewed really quick and let them know everything I did to ready myself to go.

Being chosen as an alternate is a very good sign that they really like what they see, please keep trying.



Thank you, I will for sure do this. Should I be doing anything right now concerning Army paperwork or anything? I just want to make sure I am on top of all of this before I start studying for the bar.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:14 pm

kdial wrote:

Thank you, I will for sure do this. Should I be doing anything right now concerning Army paperwork or anything? I just want to make sure I am on top of all of this before I start studying for the bar.


There is nothing besides getting into amazing shape that needs to be done.

However during your mental breaks:

Eventually you will need official transcripts and an official birth certificate that would be mailed into them. Those could be knocked out at any time. I know I wanted to keep my copies and mail them their own since I imagined I would never get them back.

The items under appointment documents:

https://www.jagcnet.army.mil/Sites/jaro.nsf/homeContent.xsp?open&documentId=4BE9FEB4D00CA36B85258030004229C6

Those could be pre-filled and merely updated later if you have extra time right now, (or when you need a mental break from bar study).

The only thing you really need to start on as soon as possible is the physical fitness part. Look at the OPAT and look at the requirements of the ACFT. You will have to pass the OPAT to go to basic and you will have to pass the ACFT at basic.

https://www.jagcnet.army.mil/Sites/jaro.nsf/xsp/.ibmmodres/domino/OpenAttachment/Sites/jaro.nsf/4BE9FEB4D00CA36B85258030004229C6/Attachments/OPAT%20Testing%20Instructions.pdf

https://www.army.mil/acft/

The hardest part of the OPAT for me was the shuttle. There are apps on the market that will play the beeps on your phone and you can time your shuttles to see how far you are off. After years focused on studies, I definitely had to get back into better shape. Never too early to start that!

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:16 pm

Thought it would be worth passing on that my PSLF application was approved a while back with all of my remaining Fed loans forgiven. A combination of my USAF AD service and then my time as a Fed.

For those hoping for loan forgiveness:

I did everything by the book in terms of properly consolidating the loans and then making sure I was paying under a qualifying payment plan. I stayed under IBR for the entire 10 year period. IBR was amazing as a O-2/O-3 due to the limited tax exposure and correspondingly lower AGI. It was an ugly transition when I moved to DOJ as a civilian however. Another reminder for you folks leaving active duty: you don't really know how good you have it. A six year O-3 in D.C. requires a high step GS14 or mid step GS15 to break even once you factor in tax liability, health insurance, FERS contributions, TSP contributions, etc.

I then kept close track of all of my payments -- I know several folks, myself included, that had to request one (or more) recounts because qualify payments were not properly recorded. Certify your Military/Fed employment each year and it is easy to track how far along you are. Save all of your paperwork, certifications, etc, somewhere that is easy to access over the 10 year window (I just put everything into an encrypted Dropbox folder). MyFedLoan was my servicer and while they were not perfect, I found their customer service folks to be very helpful & responsive when issues did arise.

Best of luck to you all on the PSLF path!

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:55 pm

I am currently a 2L, and I just applied to the AF OYCP board. I'm obviously anxious to hear back! Any ideas when they usually start to get back to people? Also how do they reach out? My impression thus far is JAX informs the SJAs and they will notify you?

Thank you!!

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:42 pm

Might be an odd question, but in terms of salary, are we starting as an O2 with three years counted towards time in service (which would also mean that we would only need to hit 17 years for retirement instead of 20)?

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Postby Patrick Bateman » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Might be an odd question, but in terms of salary, are we starting as an O2 with three years counted towards time in service (which would also mean that we would only need to hit 17 years for retirement instead of 20)?


Unless you are prior service/ROTC/Service Academy, you come in with 0 years of service.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:09 pm

It is tremendously motivating to hear from someone who has successfully gone through the PSLF process. I'm sure that has been a calculation for a lot of law school students and grads when determining whether or not they can afford to go into public service, myself included. Thanks for sharing and congratulations in being student loan debt free!!!

Patrick Bateman wrote:Thought it would be worth passing on that my PSLF application was approved a while back with all of my remaining Fed loans forgiven. A combination of my USAF AD service and then my time as a Fed.

For those hoping for loan forgiveness:

I did everything by the book in terms of properly consolidating the loans and then making sure I was paying under a qualifying payment plan. I stayed under IBR for the entire 10 year period. IBR was amazing as a O-2/O-3 due to the limited tax exposure and correspondingly lower AGI. It was an ugly transition when I moved to DOJ as a civilian however. Another reminder for you folks leaving active duty: you don't really know how good you have it. A six year O-3 in D.C. requires a high step GS14 or mid step GS15 to break even once you factor in tax liability, health insurance, FERS contributions, TSP contributions, etc.

I then kept close track of all of my payments -- I know several folks, myself included, that had to request one (or more) recounts because qualify payments were not properly recorded. Certify your Military/Fed employment each year and it is easy to track how far along you are. Save all of your paperwork, certifications, etc, somewhere that is easy to access over the 10 year window (I just put everything into an encrypted Dropbox folder). MyFedLoan was my servicer and while they were not perfect, I found their customer service folks to be very helpful & responsive when issues did arise.

Best of luck to you all on the PSLF path!

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Re: Military Law

Postby Elle in Combat Boots » Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Might be an odd question, but in terms of salary, are we starting as an O2 with three years counted towards time in service (which would also mean that we would only need to hit 17 years for retirement instead of 20)?


This is super confusing for a lot of people (even for those in the JAGC!). I will do my best to explain for the Navy side of the house:

For Navy Student Program folks with no prior service, your Pay Entry Base Date ("PEBD", aka when your "time in service" starts counting for pay chart purposes) starts the day you commission into the IRR. When you come onto active duty in the Navy as an "O-2 with three years of constructive service", that means essentially you are credited three years for RANK purposes only--it has nothing to do with pay charts or your retirement. NEITHER of these come into play with how many years you need to serve to retire from the military.

As an example: 2L with no prior military experience is selected and commissions 15 May 2011 into IRR as an O-1. Sits around in IRR and eventually takes bar exam July 2012. Goes to ODS in October 2012 as an O-1. First day of NJS she is an O-2 (but with a total of "3 years of constructive service," so instead of waiting two years at the O-2 rank in the Navy, she only has to wait one year before promoting to O-3). Just after reporting to her first tour, she gets a nice pay bump on 15 May 2013 because she has hit "two years of service" based on her PEBD. She will promote to O-3 one year after she started NJS because of the "3 years of constructive service". Retirement wise, and in the simplest case, she needs to put in 20 years of AD service ( 20 years from NJS start date).

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Re: Military Law

Postby howell » Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am currently a 2L, and I just applied to the AF OYCP board. I'm obviously anxious to hear back! Any ideas when they usually start to get back to people? Also how do they reach out? My impression thus far is JAX informs the SJAs and they will notify you?

Thank you!!

They will usually hold selection boards around the second week of the month in question, but it varies. They have been very good in recent years about getting results out within days or a week or two after the board is held. I would imagine you would get results in the second half of the month, but a lot of things can delay that.

If you are selected, you will most likely receive a call from the SJA you interviewed with notifying you. If you are not selected, you will most likely receive a disappointing e-mail. If this is something you really want to do, I strongly encourage you to keep applying even if you're not selected for the OYCP.

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Re: Military Law

Postby envirolaw2018 » Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:54 pm

howell wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am currently a 2L, and I just applied to the AF OYCP board. I'm obviously anxious to hear back! Any ideas when they usually start to get back to people? Also how do they reach out? My impression thus far is JAX informs the SJAs and they will notify you?

Thank you!!

They will usually hold selection boards around the second week of the month in question, but it varies. They have been very good in recent years about getting results out within days or a week or two after the board is held. I would imagine you would get results in the second half of the month, but a lot of things can delay that.

If you are selected, you will most likely receive a call from the SJA you interviewed with notifying you. If you are not selected, you will most likely receive a disappointing e-mail. If this is something you really want to do, I strongly encourage you to keep applying even if you're not selected for the OYCP.


Thank you so much for this information! I'm not expecting to get in the first time around, I mainly applied to give myself an extra chance/more feedback for future boards.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:16 pm

envirolaw2018 wrote:
howell wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am currently a 2L, and I just applied to the AF OYCP board. I'm obviously anxious to hear back! Any ideas when they usually start to get back to people? Also how do they reach out? My impression thus far is JAX informs the SJAs and they will notify you?

Thank you!!

They will usually hold selection boards around the second week of the month in question, but it varies. They have been very good in recent years about getting results out within days or a week or two after the board is held. I would imagine you would get results in the second half of the month, but a lot of things can delay that.

If you are selected, you will most likely receive a call from the SJA you interviewed with notifying you. If you are not selected, you will most likely receive a disappointing e-mail. If this is something you really want to do, I strongly encourage you to keep applying even if you're not selected for the OYCP.


Thank you so much for this information! I'm not expecting to get in the first time around, I mainly applied to give myself an extra chance/more feedback for future boards.



Definitely keep applying. I was not selected for OYCP and did eventually get a commission. They like seeing you come back was the feedback every time I went through the boards.

That is of course if you don't nail that coveted OYCP slot :wink: Sending you well wishes!!!!

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:19 pm

kdial wrote:
Thank you, I will for sure do this. Should I be doing anything right now concerning Army paperwork or anything? I just want to make sure I am on top of all of this before I start studying for the bar.


Speaking from experience - the most important thing on the alternate list is to knock out the medical as fast as possible. Being medically cleared significantly improves your chances of being picked up from the alternate list. As soon as possible schedule everything and stay on top of it. It resulted in me being picked up. :mrgreen:

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:27 pm

Hey all:

I have been following this forum for awhile and decided to post about my experience and see if I could answer any questions. I am actually a senior Prosecutor for a major Office who has always had an interest in JAG. When I discovered there was an Army Reserve Component that one could apply to directly without prior military experience, I applied and was accepted. However, the one speed bump was securing a Vision Waiver since my uncorrected vision fell outside parameters. It was originally denied, however, upon a reconsideration it was accepted. I was all set to attend training last month but learned that my initial physical for the military I took upon being accepted into JAG had "expired" so I am now having to repeat the medical phase. I remain committed so my advice to anyone is to NOT give up--if JAG wants you, then let them know the feeling is mutual and as difficult or as stressful as the wait is, keep going. I have been so impressed with JARO through this long process--I get the feeling they are used to people giving up on JAG when there is a delay or issues that arise.
I look at this way---you never want to look back and regret not pursuing JAG if that is your dream. I have no idea what the Reserve JAG experience is like on a daily basis, so if Reserve JAGS know then feel free to add on to this message.

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
kdial wrote:
Thank you, I will for sure do this. Should I be doing anything right now concerning Army paperwork or anything? I just want to make sure I am on top of all of this before I start studying for the bar.


Speaking from experience - the most important thing on the alternate list is to knock out the medical as fast as possible. Being medically cleared significantly improves your chances of being picked up from the alternate list. As soon as possible schedule everything and stay on top of it. It resulted in me being picked up. :mrgreen:


Army Reserve Alternate here - I haven’t received an email or anything yet regarding what we should be doing - I was told when I called the office that I should work on preparing for the ACFT and getting documents in order in case I get selected. Did you take care of all of the medical stuff on your own? Or is that something I should be contacting the office about scheduling?

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Re: Military Law

Postby JagRes19 » Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:49 pm

After selection you will receive an email setting you up thru DODMERB (Medical Exam Review Board). You have to go thru a military physical, vision and get some lab work on your own (drugs,STD etc).
All that gets uploaded into MERB then if a waiver is needed JARO assists w that.

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Re: Military Law

Postby mecarey » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:02 pm

I am currently working on my personal statement for joining the Air Force JAG Corps Air Reserve Component. However, there is little guidance provided for the format of the letter. The USAF JAG Corps (active duty, not reserve) provided the following guidance for their applications at https://www.facebook.com/USAFJAG/posts/ ... 135674075/ :

"11 point font, double spaced, and limited to one page with 1 inch margins"

For those of you who have applied for AF Reserves JAG, did you follow the same general format?

Thanks!

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:10 pm

JagRes19 wrote:After selection you will receive an email setting you up thru DODMERB (Medical Exam Review Board). You have to go thru a military physical, vision and get some lab work on your own (drugs,STD etc).
All that gets uploaded into MERB then if a waiver is needed JARO assists w that.



I see, I only asked because Anon said that clearing medical is what helped them get selected off the Alternate list. So to clarify, I'll only receive an email to get the medical portion rolling if I'm selected off the Alternate list, correct?

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Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:26 am

Anonymous User wrote:
JagRes19 wrote:After selection you will receive an email setting you up thru DODMERB (Medical Exam Review Board). You have to go thru a military physical, vision and get some lab work on your own (drugs,STD etc).
All that gets uploaded into MERB then if a waiver is needed JARO assists w that.



I see, I only asked because Anon said that clearing medical is what helped them get selected off the Alternate list. So to clarify, I'll only receive an email to get the medical portion rolling if I'm selected off the Alternate list, correct?


I am the original reply to you for being selected from alt list.

So the above post is correct. The primary and alternate selects receive the same email inviting them to setup their DODMERB account and tasks you with deadlines to complete medical processing.

So in the cycle I was an alternate our DODMERB email came out to us on Feb 26th. It was pretty basic:

Welcome to the DoDMERB Process | XXXXXX.com
Welcome xxxx,
You are authorized to take a Department of Defense Medical Examination Review Board (DoDMERB) medical exam as part of your application to a Service Academy, ROTC, USUHS, or other military program. Please follow the steps below to start your medical exam process. (listed steps with links to setup account).


Two days later the alternates received this explanation of the alternate cycle:

I wanted to reach out to everyone who has chosen to remain on our AD alternate list so that you have a point of contact in our office, and to provide some brief instructions going forward.

You all likely received an email in the last day or so regarding medical exams with DoDMERB. I'm sure you are wondering if this means you've been moved off the alternate list, but unfortunately it does not. We have not extended offers to any alternates yet. We included you in the DoDMERB list so that you can begin the medical qualification process (which can take several months to complete), that way you will not be behind in processing in case you ultimately receive an AD offer. Please go ahead and follow the instructions in the email and set up your medical exam appointments. You can also read the attached document regarding JARO medical processing. If you are a currently serving commissioned officer (regardless of component), you DO NOT have to go through the DoDMERB medical exam; just contact me directly for information on what will be needed.

In order to have your medical packet reviewed by our command surgeon, you will have to complete the lab work mentioned in the attachment. However, be aware that the lab work is at your own expense and is not currently reimbursable by the Army or JARO. Because of that, you have the option of holding at that stage and awaiting an AD offer before proceeding with the lab work. Obviously, this will delay any final decision on your medical qualification and overall processing.

You all are ranked on an order of merit list (OML) based on your scores from the selection board. The OML is used to determine the order in which AD offers are extended to alternates. If you move through the medical qualification process quickly, there is a possibility it could improve your chances of receiving an offer, but understand that you will not receive an offer just because you become medically qualified. For example, if you are in OML group 4 and only groups 1 and 2 have received AD offers, if I need to fill a seat for the next officer basic course class and have nobody ready/available within groups 1, 2, or 3, then you could be extended an offer early if you also meet all other eligibility requirements. Please keep in mind there is no guarantee this will happen. Please let me know if you are already licensed to practice law as well.

Again, follow the instructions for setting up the medical exams and let us know if you have any questions. You will receive more information if eventually you are extended an AD offer. Thank you!


The following is all information from a different cycle, but I feel it is very helpful to you for you to understand what is coming next even if some parts of it change for your cycle:

MEDICAL PROCESSING AND QUALIFICATION FOR APPOINTMENT

Medical Processing and Qualification:
Pay close attention to all suspense deadlines indicated below.
Your medical processing consists of two major parts:
• The Department of Defense Medical Examination Review Board
(DoDMERB) Commissioning Physical and Additional Medical Tests, and
• The Judge Advocate General’s (TJAG) Command Surgeon Review and
Waiver Process (if required)

A. Completing the Physical (Initial Appointments):
(1) Pre-Registration: To start the process, JARO will transmit your name and core
information to Concorde Inc., Philadelphia, PA. Concorde Inc. has sub-contracted to
providers across the country to conduct initial medical exams. This information is obtained
from the DoDMERB Medical Worksheet. The deadline to provide the worksheet to JARO is
1 March. The worksheet is included as an enclosure of your welcome packet.
(2) Initial Appointment(s): Between two (2) and four (4) days after your pre-registration
you should be able to log in and access your file. (Must be completed by 1 April) Here
are the steps:
a. Go to XXXX
b. To access your file. Click "Applicant Login" then begin the login process (user ID=
social security number, no dashes; initial password= your last name).
c. You will then be prompted to change your password.
d. Then you will see a screen with your information on it. You may now contact the
providers to schedule your appointments at your convenience. All initial medical
appointments must be completed no later than 1 May.
e. When contacting the provider, tell the clerk that you are requesting a Concorde
Academy exam.
f. Once you've made your initial appointments, enter the dates and time into
XXXXXX. This will provide you the benefit of an email and telephonic
reminder of the time, date, and place of your appointment the day before.
g. If you have any questions regarding the scheduling of your appointment or the
medical examination process, please email Mr. XXXXXX at XXXXXXX.
PART I

MEDICAL PROCESSING AND QUALIFICATION FOR APPOINTMENT

2

Please Note: You will NOT be required to pay for this exam.
You will attend the medical exam and provide any medical documentation needed to
complete your initial physical. This physical is uploaded into the DoDMERB system for initial
review. If any further medical documentation is needed a request will be sent directly to you
for action. In conjunction with this physical you will simultaneously be setting up and
completing additional medical tests as well.
(3) Checking Your DoDMERB Physical Exam Status: Upon completion of your initial
appointments, you will be able to check the status of your physical at
XXXXXXXX. There are four significant statuses to note:
a. REMEDIAL REQUESTED: After completing your initial physical exam
appointment(s), DoDMERB will review your physical to determine if further information is
required. If so, they will send a request to you for remedial information. You may receive
several requests for additional remedial information, so continue to check your status on a
regular basis until it changes to one of the following: (1) QUALIFIED, (2) DISQUALIFIED, or
(3) AWAITING WAIVER PROCESSING.
b. QUALIFIED: This is the one everyone likes to see. It means that DoDMERB has
received all necessary information/records and that you are deemed qualified under their
medical process for appointment. Please note that this is only the first step in your medical
review process. An additional step is required before you can be found to be medically
qualified for US Army standards of appointment. (See below Section (D) TJAG Command
Surgeon Review). We will coordinate directly with DoDMERB to receive a copy of your
complete qualified physical for continued medical processing.
c. DISQUALIFIED: DoDMERB has received all needed information/records and you
are deemed disqualified for Department of Defense standards of appointment, and therefore
require a waiver. (DoDMERB does not typically use this status, but occasionally it will be
used). For our purposes, there is no difference in this status and the subsequent status,
AWAITING WAIVER PROCESSING. We will coordinate directly with DoDMERB to receive a
copy of your completed physical for continued medical processing.
d. AWAITING WAIVER PROCESSING: DoDMERB has received all needed
information/records and you are deemed not qualified for Department of Defense standards
of appointment, and therefore require a waiver. We will coordinate directly with DoDMERB
to receive a copy of your completed physical for continued medical processing. Once
DoDMERB has provided their initial medical assessment they are no longer a part of the
process from this point forward. Instead, individuals requiring a medical waiver for
appointment will have that waiver reviewed as a part of the TJAG Command Surgeon’s
medical review process (See below Section (D) TJAG Command Surgeon Review).
NOTE: DoDMERB will provide you with a status notification once your physical is fully

MEDICAL PROCESSING AND QUALIFICATION FOR APPOINTMENT

3

complete. As additional information may be requested after completing your physical
appointment it is critical that you continue checking on your status until you have confirmation
that your physical has been completed.
B. Additional Medical Tests: Additional medical tests must be completed by 1 June.
The costs associated with the below described medical tests are your own and are not
reimbursable at this time. DoDMERB does not schedule and/or process these medical tests,
which is why they are not a part of your physical exam. However, they are required to be
included in your medical packet, and as such, must be secured separately. Most can be
done at a single location in your local area and/or through your normal medical care
channels.
These additional tests include:
1. HIV Screening
2. Drug Panel Testing: The test must include negative results for the following
drugs: Cocaine, Marijuana (THC), Amphetamines, Opiates, and Phencyclidine (PCP). Tests
may include more than those 5 but not less.
3. Alcohol Screening: The test can be done using blood, urine, or breathalyzer
screen. Choose whichever method is easier or least costly for you.
4. Urinalysis for Protein and Glucose: This test must be a urinalysis. You should
refrain from doing strenuous physical training at least two days prior to taking this test as a
heavy workout can cause trace protein in your urine after the workout. Your results must be
Negative. If you have trace protein or trace glucose as a result, then you will be required to
do a repeat test
5. If you are (40) or older:
- Fasting Sugar Test
- Fasting Lipid Test
- Tonometry (glaucoma) test
- EKG
6. For Females: Pregnancy Test: You cannot be pregnant when you enter military
service. If you are pregnant, then you will need to wait until 6 months after delivery before
you can be deemed medically qualified for military service.
Chain of custody is not required for these additional medical tests and they can be
secured at a location of your choice and/or thru your normal healthcare channels.
C. Forwarding Your Medical Test Results: Once you have completed all of your above
noted additional medical tests they will need to be sent to us no later than 1 July by:

MEDICAL PROCESSING AND QUALIFICATION FOR APPOINTMENT

4

(1) EMAIL: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Subject: AD ACCESSIONS – [YOUR NAME] / Medical Test Results

OR

(2) Sending results via FAX is not preferred; however, if the provider is unwilling to
provide the results to you and will not transmit electronically, then the results may be
faxed.

FAX: XXXXXXXXXXXX
ATTN: AD JARO ACCESSION TEAM

D. TJAG Command Surgeon Review (CSO): All DoDMERB physical exams are reviewed

under US Army appointment standards by the CSO. This second level review can be time-
consuming due to the number of medical packets the CSO must review at any given time and

limited personnel. As the majority of the medical reviews take between (1.5) to (3) months to
complete, we have to adjust the accession processing timeline to take this into account.
Any processing time beyond (3) months may impact your officer appointment forcing us
to shift your final appointment and Judge Advocate Officer Basic Course (JAOBC) date to
the right. This may mean that you will not get your first or second choice when it comes to
scheduling your initial JAOBC training. We realize that this can be problematic for reservists
and your civilian schedules so we make all attempts to limit the negative impact such delay
may cause. Even so, sometimes it is unavoidable.
Regardless of the status of your DoDMERB physical (“qualified”, “disqualified”, or
“awaiting waiver processing”) we are required to forward your physical and additional
medical tests (Medical Packet) to the CSO to determine if you are medical qualified to meet
US Army appointment standards. This process is detailed below:
a. MEETS APPOINTMENT STANDARDS: If you are given this status, you meet US
Army appointment standards and are medically qualified for appointment. At this point your
accession processing will move into the final stages of your appointment. This is the
quickest determination status and can normally be received in (1.5) months of submission.
b. ADDITIONAL INFORMATION REQUESTED: For this status, the CSO has
determined that it requires additional information (outside of your medical packet) to
determine if you are medically qualified for appointment. We will coordinate with you to
secure the additional information (as needed). We will work with the CSO to forward the
additional information/records for their review and determination. One of two determinations
will result from this status: (1) Meets Appointment Standards, or (2) Does Not Meet
Appointment Standards.
c. DOES NOT MEET APPOINTMENT STANDARDS: If you are given this status, you
PART II

MEDICAL PROCESSING AND QUALIFICATION FOR APPOINTMENT

5

have a condition(s) that does not meet US Army appointment standards. We will provide you
with the condition/s identified by the CSO as not meeting the standard. If you wish to be
appointed, you will need to request a medical waiver or provide additional documentation
stating that you do not have the condition that does not meet the standard. We will provide
sample letters and guidance to aide you in gathering information for obtaining a waiver.
Documentation typically includes: medical documentation, letters of recommendation, and a
personal statement regarding the medical condition/s. Medical waiver requests normally
take between (2) to (3) months, but can take longer. Given the timeframes involved with
seeking a medical waiver request we cannot guarantee that you will be able to attend your
expected JAOBC class.
Again we will do everything in our power to lessen the negative impact such delay may
cause.
d. WAIVER REQUEST: If after the Initial Review and (if necessary) a Request for
Additional Information, you receive a “Does Not Meet Appointment Standards” you will be
given the opportunity to submit a medical waiver request. It is likely that you have provided
all of the documentation you wish to submit when your information was sent up for the initial
review. However, if a new condition was identified, or if you would like to submit further
information, this is your opportunity to do so.
e. WAIVER RECOMMENDATION: After reviewing all of the documentation provided in
your waiver request, the CSO will make a waiver recommendation either to approve or deny
the medical waiver. This recommendation is forwarded to TJAG for action.
f. WAIVER APPROVAL/DENIAL: TJAG will make a decision regarding the waiver
based on the recommendation of the CSO and the recommendation from JARO. TJAG
considers waivers on a case by case basis. The timeframes involved will fluctuate and are
hard to project. Certain conditions require an additional level of review and approval
beyond TJAG, up to the Director of Military Personnel Management (DMPM). Review at
the DMPM level could take an additional (3) or more months. As stated above, we will aide
you in requesting the waiver. If your waiver is approved then your accession processing will
move into the final stages of your appointment. Unfortunately, if your waiver is denied, then
you will not be qualified to accept your commission and your accession process will
terminate.
As there is no waiver appeal authority, TJAG has the final say and will not reconsider a
waiver denial unless an abundant amount of evidence is provided showing that you either no
longer have a condition or the condition has changed since the original documentation was
submitted.


Smash those deadlines immediately. The faster you are medically cleared the better. Act as if you will be taken that cycle, and at worst it makes you ready for the next cycle as your medical clearance decision should come shortly before you reapply in the fall. I hope this helps demystify the process for you some and give you an idea of the upcoming time frames for things you'll need to knock out.

Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.

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USguard

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Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:53 am

Re: Military Law

Postby USguard » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:14 pm

Hello All,

I am a recent graduate and frequent user of this board while I was applying to all five branches and their JAG internships/programs. I ended up at the Coast Guard, and wanted to pay it back by offering to be a resource for those applying to our smaller service. I recently commissioned within the last year, so the information I share on here is accurate rather than the hearsay I often found on this board.

To start, some basic info about the program. The USCG offers internships, externships, Reservist and full time JAG positions. Internships/externships are offered year-round, more information can be found see 1.
Full time active duty: The accession source is the Direct Commission Lawyer (DCL) program. Any ABA-accredited law school grad or third year student may apply. If interested, I recommend reaching out to program see 2 and to your local CG recruiter as soon as possible. Local recruiting offices can be found on GoCoastGuard.com. If the recruiters do not get back to you in a timely matter please coordinate with program, see email below. Like the Marines, we make applicants go through MEPs first. A MEPS physical is valid for up to two years, so 2Ls and those are within two years of commissioning are also encouraged to contact their local recruiter now to get started. Our program is small so we do not select a lot of applicants but this does not mean our selection rate is necessarily low like some people purport on this board. We also take a relatively even split of law school grads and 3Ls. For details about the application process see 3. Our next fall board is in November 2020 (application deadline in October) with our next spring board in April 2021. Do not wait until these dates to see a recruiter. As stated above, the application process can take some time so better to get started early.

CGJAG job details: You commission as an O-3 (Lieutenant) 0 years time in service. First year tours are all O-3 “normal” billets (jobs), so no 1st year tour program like the Navy. We do not have a JAG Corps so you are considered a line officer. But you will never be forced to nor must you go “out of specialty” (non-lawyer jobs) to be successful in the service. But if you want to, however, the opportunities to go out of specialty are there and they change year to year. Right now we have pure lawyers going afloat in their second tour. All first tour CGJAGs are stationed in downtown Boston, DC, Norfolk, Miami, New Orleans, Cleveland, Alameda, Seattle, Honolulu, or Juneau. Those locations are also where roughly 80% of all CGJAG billets are located. But the CG has legal billets all over the country/world/with other agencies (e.g. SAUSA prosecuting drug cases, Imbedded attorneys in embassies, legal advisors at AFRICOM in Germany, Professors at the CG Academy, legal advisors to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs at the Pentagon).

In terms of financial benefits we currently do not offer any special bonuses or student debt relief. We do have standard PSLF like other branches. We also have a quick turnaround from civilian to active duty. For example, I was picked up in March of 3L, commissioned in June, and was being paid by July. This meant during bar prep I was being paid. This allowed me to avoid the cash flow problems many law school grads have waiting for work to start/pay to begin. As stated above, we do work in some pretty nice locations, and our housing stipend is prorated to let us live comfortably in those spots (e.g. DC pays O-3s anywhere from $2500-$2800 for housing, and this is non-taxable.) Additionally, if you have a spouse/partner who has their own career and/or children, the opportunities for civilian jobs and the quality of school systems cannot be beat.

I hope this gave some useful insight into CGJAG. I was surprised how few people considered applying to CG when I was applying and I felt a part of that was bad information online. Please feel free to PM me with questions, or ask on this forum, and I will do my best to answer them.
Links:
1 https://www.uscg.mil/Portals/0/Headquarters/Legal/recruit/CGJAG_Legal%20Internship_Externship%20Summer%20Program%20Advertisement_2019-2020.pdf?ver=2019-08-20-145441-053
2 Email: CoastGuardDCL@uscg.mil; Phone: (202) 372-3822
3 https://www.gocoastguard.com/ojak

JagRes19

New
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:49 pm

Re: Military Law

Postby JagRes19 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:48 pm

Correct on the DODMERB:

Actually, it was pretty efficient my first time around. Once you receive the DODMERB email, you are basically setting up an account with DODMERB and dealing with their contract providers. My experience was as follows:

--I did my physical exam at one of the clinics. When I showed up, they pulled up my appointment and said essentially:"Oh this exam is for the military". The exam was pretty straightforward.

--The vision test was done at a private optical clinic around the same time (within a few days of each other).
The optometrist was nice but said firmly he could not answer any specific questions--his job under the DOD contract was to conduct the exam and upload the results when completed. I said fine--totally understand.

--After that, I had to set up an appointment with my private doc for lab tests they mention (drug, STDS, blood work). I then had to upload those per instructions--I cannot recall if it was uploaded to JAG or one of those DODMERB mailboxes.

--A couple-three weeks later, I received notice that I had a disqualifying condition (which I already was expecting) which was uncorrected vision being outside the military standard requiring a waiver.
JAG emailed me with what I needed to provide for them to submit the waiver packet.
I had my private optometrist give me an eye exam and also write a Waiver request letter outlining why in his professional opinion, the military should grant me one. I then uploaded that to JAG per their instructions

I do recall that I totally jumped on everything once I received the DODMERB email so yes, the faster you can complete all of that the better--ESPECIALLY if you believe you are going to need a waiver since that is the piece that I believe takes the longest.

Anonymous User
Posts: 342702
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
JagRes19 wrote:
A. Completing the Physical (Initial Appointments):
(1) Pre-Registration: To start the process, JARO will transmit your name and core
information to Concorde Inc., Philadelphia, PA. Concorde Inc. has sub-contracted to
providers across the country to conduct initial medical exams. This information is obtained
from the DoDMERB Medical Worksheet. The deadline to provide the worksheet to JARO is
1 March. The worksheet is included as an enclosure of your welcome packet.


Does the welcome packet come from DoDMERB? I just received a welcome "letter" via email but no welcome packet or DoDMERB Medical Worksheet. Just wondering if I was supposed to have received the medical worksheet already.

Anonymous User
Posts: 342702
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Military Law

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:22 am

Has anyone received orders or base assignment for the 211th JAOBC? Or the email they were looking to get out listing if people were missing anything?

I'm worried about getting everything moved as time drags on. We report to active duty in 25 days.

How much notice do military movers need to get your stuff? :?

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!




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