179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

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Stanley Otto Swift
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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby Stanley Otto Swift » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:02 am

Olive wrote:How about RC tips--how did you improve in that section? Any timing strategies specifically?
Additionally, what did your study plan look like a month before the test?

All the advice is much appreciated.


A month away from the December LSAT I was taking practice tests and doing a very thorough review. By then, I was testing in the high 170s, so it was just a matter of getting accustomed to the most recent tests and building my endurance. I also tried to read a couple of hours every day (non LSAT material) to keep my RC sharp and to maintain my focus.

I have no great advice for RC and I'm not sure there is any good advice, given that RC is such an individual thing. I experimented with several different methods, but what worked for me was a minimalist approach. I did a very brisk read of the passage and just referred back when I got to the questions. Moderate underlining to de-lineate the main points and shifts of tone/argument.

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Stanley Otto Swift
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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby Stanley Otto Swift » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:04 am

DavidYurman85 wrote:Did you practice with any non-official LSAC prep material?

edit: typed too many words


I used some non-LSAC stuff toward the end when I wanted to practice without wasting preptests. By then I had done enough problems where I didn't think it would hurt me, but I wouldn't recommend it for someone at the beginning of their prep.

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hypermeganet
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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby hypermeganet » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:53 am

Stanley Otto Swift wrote:
Olive wrote:How about RC tips--how did you improve in that section? Any timing strategies specifically?
Additionally, what did your study plan look like a month before the test?

All the advice is much appreciated.


I have no great advice for RC and I'm not sure there is any good advice, given that RC is such an individual thing. I experimented with several different methods, but what worked for me was a minimalist approach. I did a very brisk read of the passage and just referred back when I got to the questions. Moderate underlining to de-lineate the main points and shifts of tone/argument.


This is the exact method I used for the SAT, GRE, and plan to use on the LSAT. I missed one RC question between the SAT and GRE and average 2-3 misses currently on my timed practices, FWIW.

Also, the advice about just figuring out the similarities b/w questions on LR (and even LG) is key. A large majority of the questions are very, very similar. Not just in what they want, but in the easy-to-spot incorrect answer types. Even the correct answers have a "feel" to them. This is why a quick run through the LG and LR bible plus loads of practice problems (untimed at first and then timed) is the best way to study, I think.

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Stanley Otto Swift
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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby Stanley Otto Swift » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:31 am

solotee wrote:Thanks for looking out for us, very inspiring achievement. Any specific advice that you could offer us test takers that are stuck in the mid 160's?


Perfect your LG performance. They are so learnable that with enough practice I don't think a top scorer (90%+) should be missing ANY questions in this section. One thing I did when I was still struggling with LG, was to figure my score on a given preptest and then figure what I would have gotten had I not missed any in LG. When you start seeing those 165s become 169s it really motivates you to nail this section. You can effectively eliminate 23% of the test (or whatever) with this approach.
Last edited by Stanley Otto Swift on Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Lmao Zedong
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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby Lmao Zedong » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:34 am

Stanley Otto Swift wrote:One thing I did when I was still struggling with LG, was to figure my score on a given preptest and then figure what I would have gotten had I not missed any in LG. When you start seeing 165s becoming 169s, and 168s becoming 171s, it really motivates you to nail this section.



then i'll bet this
Stanley Otto Swift wrote:
multiprose wrote:what was you sextion distribution and how did you improve?


Missed 2 on RC and 1 on LG.


was particularly infuriating

Darth Topher
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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby Darth Topher » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:42 am

congradulations

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Stanley Otto Swift
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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby Stanley Otto Swift » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:48 am

GargamelITT wrote:
was particularly infuriating


Words cannot describe the disgust I felt when I realized that a LG question cost me my 180. Perfection should be the goal, nevertheless.

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doinmybest
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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby doinmybest » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:56 am

Thank you for being so helpful.

Heres a question I see a lot on this board. What is your take?

What do you think is more important for someone trying to make a breakthrough? Drilling practice problems/sections or taking as many PTs as you can with comprehensive review?

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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby Batman2 » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:48 pm

coldbeverage wrote:
2) Did you take your preptests in a particular order? Ex: Oldest to newest, random, evenly dispersed, etc.

!


I also was wondering about this, if you get a chance...

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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby patat » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:55 pm

What specifically were the supplemental materials you used?

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WhiskeyGuy
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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby WhiskeyGuy » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:27 pm

Say your RC was at -4 (w/ no studying) but you had been missing -8 on EACH LR section for the six or seven LR sections you had done timed--how would you resolve this?

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ruleser
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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby ruleser » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:31 pm

Thanks for your tips/info. I love people who put the positive/don't set limits attitude out there. I've retaken 3 times and am going a 4th because I know I have high 170's in me - and I think it may be important not to think even that but to think/know 180 is possible - do you agree with that? Last exam I got 168 - -6 on LG, -5 RC, -3 LR - seems to me should be able to get -0 LG from what everyone says, and RC I started -2. What did it take you to get from -1 or -2 per section on LR to -0, and what was your number 1 error you used to make on RC?

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doinmybest
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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby doinmybest » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:36 pm

ruleser wrote:Thanks for your tips/info. I love people who put the positive/don't set limits attitude out there. I've retaken 3 times and am going a 4th because I know I have high 170's in me - and I think it may be important not to think even that but to think/know 180 is possible - do you agree with that? Last exam I got 168 - -6 on LG, -5 RC, -3 LR - seems to me should be able to get -0 LG from what everyone says, and RC I started -2. What did it take you to get from -1 or -2 per section on LR to -0, and what was your number 1 error you used to make on RC?


Did LSAC give you permission to take a 4th? Or is your first attempt over two years old?

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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby FacePalm » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:46 pm

WhiskeyGuy wrote:Say your RC was at -4 (w/ no studying) but you had been missing -8 on EACH LR section for the six or seven LR sections you had done timed--how would you resolve this?


LR bible. PT LR sections only until it clicks. I find it easier to focus and improve by concentrating on single section types i.e. practice LR all week and take one full PT on Saturday. I used this method to improve LG from -16 to -1, LR from -8 to -2.5ish per section (currently working on LR), ironically RC has generally improved slightly (-6 to -4.5) though I still haven't focused on it yet. You can string 4 or 5 sections of a single type together, but I think "endurance" testing is overrated. Test day adrenaline is sufficient.
Note on LR: there is often an easy and a hard section in each test, though sometimes they are more balanced.

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WhiskeyGuy
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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby WhiskeyGuy » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:56 pm

FacePalm wrote:
WhiskeyGuy wrote:Say your RC was at -4 (w/ no studying) but you had been missing -8 on EACH LR section for the six or seven LR sections you had done timed--how would you resolve this?


LR bible. PT LR sections only until it clicks. I find it easier to focus and improve by concentrating on single section types i.e. practice LR all week and take one full PT on Saturday. I used this method to improve LG from -16 to -1, LR from -8 to -2.5ish per section (currently working on LR), ironically RC has generally improved slightly (-6 to -4.5) though I still haven't focused on it yet. You can string 4 or 5 sections of a single type together, but I think "endurance" testing is overrated. Test day adrenaline is sufficient.
Note on LR: there is often an easy and a hard section in each test, though sometimes they are more balanced.


I'll try that, although I have been taking a practice LR section every evening and then spend a good deal of time afterward reviewing why I got incorrect answers wrong--no improvement from this after 4 tests worth of LRs, yet.

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los blancos
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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby los blancos » Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:05 pm

I diaged at 157 and was practicing in the mid to high 170s before bombing the real thing (163). Any advice?

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Shaggier1
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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby Shaggier1 » Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:43 pm

I diaged at 157 and was practicing in the mid to high 170s before bombing the real thing (163). Any advice?


Boiler,

To what do you attribute the drop in score?

Did you bomb on section in particular? Or was it an overall drop?

Were you taking your practice tests under strictly timed conditions?

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rondemarino
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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby rondemarino » Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:38 pm

ruleser wrote:Thanks for your tips/info. I love people who put the positive/don't set limits attitude out there. I've retaken 3 times and am going a 4th because I know I have high 170's in me - and I think it may be important not to think even that but to think/know 180 is possible - do you agree with that? Last exam I got 168 - -6 on LG, -5 RC, -3 LR - seems to me should be able to get -0 LG from what everyone says, and RC I started -2. What did it take you to get from -1 or -2 per section on LR to -0, and what was your number 1 error you used to make on RC?


Damn dude. I thought its 3 times and done?

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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby Helmholtz » Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:44 pm

rondemarino wrote:
ruleser wrote:Thanks for your tips/info. I love people who put the positive/don't set limits attitude out there. I've retaken 3 times and am going a 4th because I know I have high 170's in me - and I think it may be important not to think even that but to think/know 180 is possible - do you agree with that? Last exam I got 168 - -6 on LG, -5 RC, -3 LR - seems to me should be able to get -0 LG from what everyone says, and RC I started -2. What did it take you to get from -1 or -2 per section on LR to -0, and what was your number 1 error you used to make on RC?


Damn dude. I thought its 3 times and done?


You can take more than three times if they're spaced out in time enough or if a school grants you a waiver to take it again. It's useful for victims of recurring performance anxiety or people confident that they're smarter than the LSAT keeps telling them (and telling them and telling them and telling them) they are.

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los blancos
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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby los blancos » Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:51 pm

Shaggier1 wrote:
I diaged at 157 and was practicing in the mid to high 170s before bombing the real thing (163). Any advice?


Boiler,

To what do you attribute the drop in score?

Did you bomb on section in particular? Or was it an overall drop?

Were you taking your practice tests under strictly timed conditions?



PTs were probably about as realistic as can be. I even threw in experimentals.

I took June 09. My strongest sections in prep were LR and LG (LG was originally my weakness but on my last 6 or 7 [very recent, PTs 50+] PTs I was finishing early, usually -0 or -1). I was worried most about RC because I had demonstrated the ability to do very well on the section but still less consistently than the others. However, I knew going in that my test would go as LG goes because that' the least 'secure' section to me (the one with the biggest f*** up potential).

I had LR LG RC(ex) RC LR. I started out really well and felt very confident after my first section (perhaps a bit TOO comfortable) and got caught in the dinosaurs LG and basically had to guess on the entire game. I was aiming for 175+ of course (I decided a long time ago that I won't be going to law school unless I crack 170 - I want UMich or UChicago). It completely shell-shocked me but I kept mentally strong during the next section, momentarily convincing myself that it might've been the experimental (deep down, I think I knew it was the real thing). I was pretty sure I murdered the experimental RC.

You can imagine my chagrin when I flipped to the fourth section after the break and found not only that the LG was real but that the RC I had just killed was experimental. I fell apart at that point and basically had to force myself to finish the test. The result was a 13-point drop from my PT average - I've heard of people doing worse on the real thing but I've never heard of anyone bombing as bad as I did.

I'm registered for September. I'm not going to do that much studying (just PTs 40-47 and every LG section ever released) because I know I have the skill set... the LSAT is basically just a crap shoot for me now.

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los blancos
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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby los blancos » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:02 pm

Stanley Otto Swift wrote:
solotee wrote:Thanks for looking out for us, very inspiring achievement. Any specific advice that you could offer us test takers that are stuck in the mid 160's?


Perfect your LG performance. They are so learnable that with enough practice I don't think a top scorer (90%+) should be missing ANY questions in this section. One thing I did when I was still struggling with LG, was to figure my score on a given preptest and then figure what I would have gotten had I not missed any in LG. When you start seeing those 165s become 169s it really motivates you to nail this section. You can effectively eliminate 23% of the test (or whatever) with this approach.



This.

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sayan
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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby sayan » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:03 pm

So are the last 2 sections guaranteed to be authentic?

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sayan
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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby sayan » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:05 pm

boilercat wrote:
Shaggier1 wrote:
I diaged at 157 and was practicing in the mid to high 170s before bombing the real thing (163). Any advice?


Boiler,

To what do you attribute the drop in score?

Did you bomb on section in particular? Or was it an overall drop?

Were you taking your practice tests under strictly timed conditions?



PTs were probably about as realistic as can be. I even threw in experimentals.

I took June 09. My strongest sections in prep were LR and LG (LG was originally my weakness but on my last 6 or 7 [very recent, PTs 50+] PTs I was finishing early, usually -0 or -1). I was worried most about RC because I had demonstrated the ability to do very well on the section but still less consistently than the others. However, I knew going in that my test would go as LG goes because that' the least 'secure' section to me (the one with the biggest f*** up potential).

I had LR LG RC(ex) RC LR. I started out really well and felt very confident after my first section (perhaps a bit TOO comfortable) and got caught in the dinosaurs LG and basically had to guess on the entire game. I was aiming for 175+ of course (I decided a long time ago that I won't be going to law school unless I crack 170 - I want UMich or UChicago). It completely shell-shocked me but I kept mentally strong during the next section, momentarily convincing myself that it might've been the experimental (deep down, I think I knew it was the real thing). I was pretty sure I murdered the experimental RC.

You can imagine my chagrin when I flipped to the fourth section after the break and found not only that the LG was real but that the RC I had just killed was experimental. I fell apart at that point and basically had to force myself to finish the test. The result was a 13-point drop from my PT average - I've heard of people doing worse on the real thing but I've never heard of anyone bombing as bad as I did.

I'm registered for September. I'm not going to do that much studying (just PTs 40-47 and every LG section ever released) because I know I have the skill set... the LSAT is basically just a crap shoot for me now.


So basically a demoralization due to a really hard game destroyed your concentration and focus? Was the test actually otherwise challenging or do you blame the drop solely on that fact?

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Shaggier1
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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby Shaggier1 » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:07 pm

So are the last 2 sections guaranteed to be authentic?


The exp. section has always appeared in the first 3 sections. There is no official rule saying that it must appear in the first 3, as far as I know (maybe someone can prove me wrong), but LSAT has never broken with the trend.

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sayan
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Re: 179 LSAT, 154 diagnostic, taking questions, giving advice...

Postby sayan » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:12 pm

Shaggier1 wrote:
So are the last 2 sections guaranteed to be authentic?


The exp. section has always appeared in the first 3 sections. There is no official rule saying that it must appear in the first 3, as far as I know (maybe someone can prove me wrong), but LSAT has never broken with the trend.


Neat. So if the exp. is not a LR then you know immediately which section was the exp., right?




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