Prep Test 56 - 2 LR questions - CONTAINS SPOILERS

whattodo2008
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Prep Test 56 - 2 LR questions - CONTAINS SPOILERS

Postby whattodo2008 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:04 am

Hi, I just did better than usual on the test, except that I had a couple of questions on the first section of the LR.

Section 2:

#20: I got this one right, but have a hard time eliminating the contender (C).

Also

#24. I chose B, can't figure out why it is A.

KaplanLSATInstructor
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Re: Prep Test 56 - 2 LR questions - CONTAINS SPOILERS

Postby KaplanLSATInstructor » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:26 am

You might want to double-check Q. 20. I have (C) listed as the credited response.

As for Q. 24, the author's argument is that we can expect an overall decrease in negative effects due to acid rain. Why? Because fewer acidic pollutants are released in the air.

The problem with the argument is that author claims an "overall" decrease in negative effects just because of one positive circumstance. To weaken his claim, we want to show how this positive circumstance either doesn't help overall or how there's another circumstance that may counteract that circumstance.

(B) does the latter. It offers a counteraction. Even though we may be releasing fewer pollutants, there are fewer neutralizers in the air. So, that suggests that the same amount of pollutants will go un-neutralized -- causing the same amount of acid rain.

(A), on the other hand, talks about ecosystems that reduce negative effects when there are increased levels of acid in the environment. This fails to weaken on two accounts. 1.) It talks about what happens when there are INCREASED levels of acid -- something that's irrelevant to the argument since the author is claiming a DECREASE in acidic pollutants and therefore a DECREASE in effects of acid rain. 2.) Even if the decrease in acidic pollutants alone didn't reduce the amount of acid rain, these ecosystems seem to be able to handle that acid rain. After all, if these ecosystems could reduce negative effects with increased levels of acids, imagine what they could do with no increase! That suggests that negative effects would decrease no matter what, thus strengthening the author's argument.

HTH

- Chris

whattodo2008
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Re: Prep Test 56 - 2 LR questions - CONTAINS SPOILERS

Postby whattodo2008 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:31 pm

Thanks for the detailed responses. I think you are looking at another prep test though. I am looking at the December test.

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Re: Prep Test 56 - 2 LR questions - CONTAINS SPOILERS

Postby LSAT All Star » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:53 pm

whattodo2008 wrote:Thanks for the detailed responses. I think you are looking at another prep test though. I am looking at the December test.


PT 56 - 2/24

First, what is the argument?

We have 40K seals.

Most served their purpose when the doc they sealed was opened.

Lead cost money, so seals were destroyed when they served their purpose. [Note, it says they were recast, but it does not state they were recast into other seals. The lead could have be recast into anything.]

Thus

Must have been far more than 40K docs.

So, what is the problem with this argument? The premises are all about the number of seals. The conclusion is about the number of documents. Certainly there is one premise that states seals were destroyed when their purpose was served - a document was opened - but we are talking about the number of seals that were not destroyed (the 40K we have) not the ones that were destroyed. The number not destroyed is not connected to the number of documents produced.

Do the premises necessarily lead to the conclusion? No. It could be that 40,003 seals were prepared and only three were used while 40K were kept in reserve for future documents. Then those three that were used were recast. So, the argument does not prove there were even 40K documents, much less many times that number. There could have been only three documents and all the premises in the argument still be true.

Now we get to Choice A. This closes the gap in the argument. By claiming most of the seals produced were actually used, we know the example I used above is not true. In fact, if most were used and we still have 40K left over, there must of been far more than 40K documents. (This response option ties the number of seals to the number of documents. That was the gap in the argument).

Choice B is irrelevant. We do not care if the documents were destroyed or not. The argument is about how many were produced. Using my example, there still could have been only three documents. Two of them could have been destroyed and one still exists. That would fit with this response option (most destroyed) but not have any effect on the argument.

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Sogui
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Re: Prep Test 56 - 2 LR questions - CONTAINS SPOILERS

Postby Sogui » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:57 pm

I would like to know why Section 2 - Q.20 was E instead of C.

They both seemed to imply the same thing "Don't try psychotherapy if bad stuff happens"

It seems that (C) says everything (E) does, but then some. Why E and not C?

antim1
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Re: Prep Test 56 - 2 LR questions - CONTAINS SPOILERS

Postby antim1 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:18 pm

I chose C too.

Here is what Kap says:

(C) Distortion. This is tricky. The psychologist is
making a claim regarding the appropriateness of the
behavior of the psychotherapists while using an
indirect reference to the quality of the advice that
would be provided on talk shows. To say that
psychotherapy should never be provided when there is
even the slightest chance of compromise with quality is
dif ferent from the psychologists feeling that
psychotherapy should not be provided when it is
“nearly always incompatible with providing high-quality
psychological help.”

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Sogui
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Re: Prep Test 56 - 2 LR questions - CONTAINS SPOILERS

Postby Sogui » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:26 pm

antim1 wrote:I chose C too.

Here is what Kap says:

(C) Distortion. This is tricky. The psychologist is
making a claim regarding the appropriateness of the
behavior of the psychotherapists while using an
indirect reference to the quality of the advice that
would be provided on talk shows. To say that
psychotherapy should never be provided when there is
even the slightest chance of compromise with quality is
dif ferent from the psychologists feeling that
psychotherapy should not be provided when it is
“nearly always incompatible with providing high-quality
psychological help.”


I still don't see what makes C explicitly incorrect. I looked back on my Powerscore "Bible" training and since this appears to be a justify aka "insert the premise that makes the conclusion valid", I don't see what would exclude C.

C says, as you said, "psychotherapy should never be provided when there is even the slightest chance of compromise with quality". The previous premise says "Psychotherapy designed for broad audiences is nearly always incompatible with providing high-quality psychological help." And the conclusion basically says "Therefore psychotherapy should never be done in this setting".

Sure C provides a stronger definition of situations where psychotherapy should not be attempted, but it still creates an "umbrella" that the conclusion falls under and makes it valid.

E seems more narrowly tailored, and also renders the conclusion valid "if assumed".

bakemono
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Re: Prep Test 56 - 2 LR questions - CONTAINS SPOILERS

Postby bakemono » Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:03 pm

i'll tell you why.


Cause it's an assumption question. I got it wrong, cause i thought it was a justify q as well in which case, both C and E would lead to the conclusion, but you'd probably choose C with a grimace on your face, cause C seems stronger even though, technically both are adequate and thus the answer.

It's because it's an assumption question that you got it wrong in which case E is the only necessary answer.

Read the question stem again. The important part is "what MUST be assumed in order" for the conclusion to be properly drawn. Compare that to the usual "conclusion follows logically IF which one of the following is assumed." IF= sufficient, MUST= necessary.

Yeah, i'm pissed i didn't see it before too. They actually had this kind of stem 2-3 times before in the LSAT's, and for some reason i missed it this time around.

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JCougar
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Re: Prep Test 56 - 2 LR questions - CONTAINS SPOILERS

Postby JCougar » Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:56 pm

I got this same question wrong for the same reason. I debated between C and E for a bit, but I chose C because it seemed stronger. Upon review, C is too extreme of a statement.

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Sogui
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Re: Prep Test 56 - 2 LR questions - CONTAINS SPOILERS

Postby Sogui » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:35 pm

I see, so since it's assumption then logically if you negate the answer choices only the right answer choice would lead to the conclusion being invalid.

And since (C) is too strong, negating it wouldn't necessarily mean the conclusion is invalid as well, whereas (E) would mean just that.


Oh well, it was the only one I missed and I had circled both C and E, finished with extra time, went back to #20 and stared at it for 3 minutes before time ran out, alternating answers until I settled on C even though I knew it was too strong I figured there was no such thing as too strong of a premise for a justify question and felt like C & E were tomato-tomato for me.

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JollyGreenGiant
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Re: Prep Test 56 - 2 LR questions - CONTAINS SPOILERS

Postby JollyGreenGiant » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:46 pm

I did this test yesterday.. and I went with E because it talks about Psychotherapists never attempting psychotherapy (which is what the conclusion was talking about) while answer choice C talks about just Psychotherapy and it doesn't mention psychotherapists.

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Sogui
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Re: Prep Test 56 - 2 LR questions - CONTAINS SPOILERS

Postby Sogui » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:04 pm

JollyGreenGiant wrote:I did this test yesterday.. and I went with E because it talks about Psychotherapists never attempting psychotherapy (which is what the conclusion was talking about) while answer choice C talks about just Psychotherapy and it doesn't mention psychotherapists.


Yes I recall that, but I don't think that's why the answer is (E).

If (C) says "Never do psychotherapy if quality is jeopardized"
and (E) says "Psychologists should never attempt psychotherapy if quality is jeopardized"

(I know the answers aren't quite like that but I'm making an example)

then either answer would be fine because it doesn't matter who the "actor" is in C if the act of psychotherapy in those circumstances is universally condemned.

I could be wrong, but that was my take.

MissLucky
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Re: Prep Test 56 - 2 LR questions - CONTAINS SPOILERS

Postby MissLucky » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:58 pm

I realize this is a necessary assumption question, and intuitively I completely see how (C) is far too strong. But when I try to get the answer by applying the denial test, negating (C) does in fact rip apart the conclusion. So is it not wise to use the denial test when you realize that one answer choice may be a sufficient assumption since denying that may rip apart the conclusion too? idk, weird. help?

ps - C's denial: "Psychotherapy should/(could?) at least sometimes be provided in a context in which there is any chance that the therapy might be of less than high quality." - am I not negating this right or sth? because this totally wrecks the conclusion and hence should make it valid.

thoughts?

thnx

MissLucky
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Re: Prep Test 56 - 2 LR questions - CONTAINS SPOILERS

Postby MissLucky » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:00 am

anyone?

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niederbomb
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Re: Prep Test 56 - 2 LR questions - CONTAINS SPOILERS

Postby niederbomb » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:48 am

Thanks for posting this. You made me realize I got the right answer for 24 but somehow marked it as wrong by looking at the answer key for the wrong LR section. :lol:

Alright, I got 20 right because choice (E) more closely paralleled the stimulus: "satisfying this demand is nearly always incompatible with providing high-quality psychological help. For this reason...."

Choice C adds "...should never be provided....if there is any chance...."

Choice E, however, says basically what the stimulus does: "should never attempt....in a manner that makes it unlikely....."

Basically, the stimulus says "E," and it doesn't say "C." It's a distortion, like Kaplan says.

However, on this section I missed 3: #13, #14, and #23. A trap on 13 and 14 and a reversed logic rule on 23. All of these mistakes could have been prevented if I had read more carefully, but I still only barely finished in time: I am in a quandary: help?

I went 25/25 on the second LR section; was this one actually easier? If not, it means I need to warmup when I take the actual test in three days...




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