LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Which is more difficult IYO?

LSAT
254
83%
GRE
52
17%
 
Total votes: 306

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reasontobelieve
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby reasontobelieve » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:55 pm

i've taken them both....lsat is fun at least

scd001
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby scd001 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:55 pm

The gmat is difficult as well. Who would have thought that sentence completions could be so difficult.

Esquires09
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby Esquires09 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:44 pm

So far, this thread has largely been comprised of people expressing a distaste for math, an unwillingness to study for the GRE, and suggestions that the material tested on the LSAT can be learned - whatever that might mean.

The most sensible post made use of statistics which quite clearly demonstrated the quantifiable aspect of the LSAT's superior difficulty, but even these stats are unable to take into consideration the relative caliber and quantity of students taking each test - two variables which would, I think, further skew one's opinion towards the LSAT.

The GRE and LSAT have entirely different aims. The GRE is designed to expose a student's threshold of information across a variety of primary academic subjects or, in the case of the specialty GREs, in specific areas. The LSAT is designed to expose a student's fundamental thought processes. The GRE is a much more egalitarian test, pulling its questions from a finite base, which sources of information can be mined productively by all test-takers. Work ethic and memory improvement in the case of the GRE are all that are necessary for success. The LSAT, on the other hand, requires a certain way of thinking, and it requires this method at a high level, and it happens to be an especial admixture of the analytical (rational/numerate) and creative minds (literate). Obviously those naturally inclined to this mode of thought will identify with aspects of the test more readily; those attempting to learn this manner of thinking will meet with varying levels of success. It is clear from the LSAT's results that the vast majority of individuals must learn how to think according to the LSAT's expectations, and even that, given the number of variables mutable on test-day, will not guarantee success. After taking the LSAT, you may very well hate it, but it is hard not to be impressed by its scope as a quantifier of data.

If those who dislike math believe the LSAT to be a simpler test, they underestimate the affinity between systems like logic and mathematics. The sheer number of individuals who feel no need to to study for the GRE demonstrate its relative approachability. The contention that the material on the LSAT can be learned may be equally applied in the case of the GRE. However, in the case of the former, you are dealing with fundamental methods; in the case of the latter, with statistics, vocabularies, and graphs.

Consider the case of a dancer at a recital: she is asked, for admission into one school, to give a performance incorporating various steps, movements, gyrations, etc which are standard fare for a dancer at her level - even though some of the steps may intimidate her. For another school, a purist-Diaghilev institution, admission to which is, in itself, an honor and professional advantage, she is asked to dance as Diaghilev would have danced to a piece of music previously unannounced and never performed by Diaghilev himself. While the analogy may be imperfect, I think it is clear that to perform well in the first example would be a simpler matter for all but the most Diaghilev-inclined, versatile dancers.

kjunfood
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby kjunfood » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:48 pm

Esquires09 wrote:So far, this thread has largely been comprised of people expressing a distaste for math, an unwillingness to study for the GRE, and suggestions that the material tested on the LSAT can be learned - whatever that might mean.

The most sensible post made use of statistics which quite clearly demonstrated the quantifiable aspect of the LSAT's superior difficulty, but even these stats are unable to take into consideration the relative caliber and quantity of students taking each test - two variables which would, I think, further skew one's opinion towards the LSAT.

The GRE and LSAT have entirely different aims. The GRE is designed to expose a student's threshold of information across a variety of primary academic subjects or, in the case of the specialty GREs, in specific areas. The LSAT is designed to expose a student's fundamental thought processes. The GRE is a much more egalitarian test, pulling its questions from a finite base, which sources of information can be mined productively by all test-takers. Work ethic and memory improvement in the case of the GRE are all that are necessary for success. The LSAT, on the other hand, requires a certain way of thinking, and it requires this method at a high level, and it happens to be an especial admixture of the analytical (rational/numerate) and creative minds (literate). Obviously those naturally inclined to this mode of thought will identify with aspects of the test more readily; those attempting to learn this manner of thinking will meet with varying levels of success. It is clear from the LSAT's results that the vast majority of individuals must learn how to think according to the LSAT's expectations, and even that, given the number of variables mutable on test-day, will not guarantee success. After taking the LSAT, you may very well hate it, but it is hard not to be impressed by its scope as a quantifier of data.

If those who dislike math believe the LSAT to be a simpler test, they underestimate the affinity between systems like logic and mathematics. The sheer number of individuals who feel no need to to study for the GRE demonstrate its relative approachability. The contention that the material on the LSAT can be learned may be equally applied in the case of the GRE. However, in the case of the former, you are dealing with fundamental methods; in the case of the latter, with statistics, vocabularies, and graphs.

Consider the case of a dancer at a recital: she is asked, for admission into one school, to give a performance incorporating various steps, movements, gyrations, etc which are standard fare for a dancer at her level - even though some of the steps may intimidate her. For another school, a purist-Diaghilev institution, admission to which is, in itself, an honor and professional advantage, she is asked to dance as Diaghilev would have danced to a piece of music previously unannounced and never performed by Diaghilev himself. While the analogy may be imperfect, I think it is clear that to perform well in the first example would be a simpler matter for all but the most Diaghilev-inclined, versatile dancers.


For the most part, +1

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pjarron
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby pjarron » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:56 pm

razorzor wrote:
pjarron wrote:Any exam that primarily measures how many vocabulary words you remember and pre-algebra formulas is definitely easier than the LSAT. Plus the reading comp on the GRE was easier than the LSAT. I know people who scored in the low 150’s on the LSAT but scored in the 700’s on both sections of the GRE.


Any exam that primarily measures how many vocabulary words you remember out of the whole fucking dictionary is definitely harder than the LSAT. Plus the reading comp on the GRE was harder than the LSAT. I know people who scored low 500s on both sections of the GRE but 170+s on the LSAT.


I find it hard to believe that the people who have read enough complicated, jargon filled stuff to score a 170+ on the LSAT, generally, i mean generally-i'm sure somebody knows the 2 or 3 people who are exceptions- can at least score over 550 on both sections.

ResIpsaLoquitur
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby ResIpsaLoquitur » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:02 pm

I picked GRE b/c

I dont do math so good. Oh and im horrible at circles.

awesomepossum
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby awesomepossum » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:06 pm

WTF is this fluid intelligence and crystallized intelligence horseshit?


I've taken both. The GRE is cake. The LSAT, not so much.

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underdawg
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby underdawg » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:12 pm

awesomepossum wrote:WTF is this fluid intelligence and crystallized intelligence horseshit?


I've taken both. The GRE is cake. The LSAT, not so much.

stfu science boy. you know how to do maths

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rhinestonedarling
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby rhinestonedarling » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:15 pm

IMO it depends on how much you've seen the formats of each. I took them both and did slightly better on the LSAT. If I had taken them both cold I would probably have found the LSAT more difficult, but with months of studying, the LSAT was easier. It's a far more workable test than the GRE.

mabelgs
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby mabelgs » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:17 pm

pjarron wrote:
razorzor wrote:
pjarron wrote:Any exam that primarily measures how many vocabulary words you remember and pre-algebra formulas is definitely easier than the LSAT. Plus the reading comp on the GRE was easier than the LSAT. I know people who scored in the low 150’s on the LSAT but scored in the 700’s on both sections of the GRE.


Any exam that primarily measures how many vocabulary words you remember out of the whole fucking dictionary is definitely harder than the LSAT. Plus the reading comp on the GRE was harder than the LSAT. I know people who scored low 500s on both sections of the GRE but 170+s on the LSAT.


I find it hard to believe that the people who have read enough complicated, jargon filled stuff to score a 170+ on the LSAT, generally, i mean generally-i'm sure somebody knows the 2 or 3 people who are exceptions- can at least score over 550 on both sections.


I know you're responding to this specific (and I'm sure exceptional) situation...I would like to mention that people who score 170+ on the LSAT would probably consider anything under 700 per section on the GRE a crappy score.

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bluejayk
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby bluejayk » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:20 pm

underdawg wrote:stfu science boy. you know how to do maths


I was a humanities major. Never took calculus, got a D in high school trigonometry. 720 on the GRE math section with 3-4 hours of practice. It's really simple math, dude. pi r squared and shit like that.

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rhinestonedarling
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby rhinestonedarling » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:24 pm

mabelgs wrote:
I know you're responding to this specific (and I'm sure exceptional) situation...I would like to mention that people who score 170+ on the LSAT would probably consider anything under 700 per section on the GRE a crappy score.


Nah. Some people just aren't math people. :lol:

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Ranita
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby Ranita » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:45 pm

Speaking for the extreme right side of the bell curve, the GRE is easier to master. Refresh your algebra and read 3 or 4 Verbal Advantage / Improve Your Word Power books, and you'll be rockin' 1600 time and time again.

As for the LSAT, it's less memorization and more skill-based. Even after studying an obscene amount of time (about 6 months), I still only scored 179-180 on three practice tests, and was averaging 175.

So if you're going for gold, the GRE is it.

Pearalegal
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby Pearalegal » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:47 pm

Esquires09 wrote:So far, this thread has largely been comprised of people expressing a distaste for math, an unwillingness to study for the GRE, and suggestions that the material tested on the LSAT can be learned - whatever that might mean.

The most sensible post made use of statistics which quite clearly demonstrated the quantifiable aspect of the LSAT's superior difficulty, but even these stats are unable to take into consideration the relative caliber and quantity of students taking each test - two variables which would, I think, further skew one's opinion towards the LSAT.

The GRE and LSAT have entirely different aims. The GRE is designed to expose a student's threshold of information across a variety of primary academic subjects or, in the case of the specialty GREs, in specific areas. The LSAT is designed to expose a student's fundamental thought processes. The GRE is a much more egalitarian test, pulling its questions from a finite base, which sources of information can be mined productively by all test-takers. Work ethic and memory improvement in the case of the GRE are all that are necessary for success. The LSAT, on the other hand, requires a certain way of thinking, and it requires this method at a high level, and it happens to be an especial admixture of the analytical (rational/numerate) and creative minds (literate). Obviously those naturally inclined to this mode of thought will identify with aspects of the test more readily; those attempting to learn this manner of thinking will meet with varying levels of success. It is clear from the LSAT's results that the vast majority of individuals must learn how to think according to the LSAT's expectations, and even that, given the number of variables mutable on test-day, will not guarantee success. After taking the LSAT, you may very well hate it, but it is hard not to be impressed by its scope as a quantifier of data.

If those who dislike math believe the LSAT to be a simpler test, they underestimate the affinity between systems like logic and mathematics. The sheer number of individuals who feel no need to to study for the GRE demonstrate its relative approachability. The contention that the material on the LSAT can be learned may be equally applied in the case of the GRE. However, in the case of the former, you are dealing with fundamental methods; in the case of the latter, with statistics, vocabularies, and graphs.

Consider the case of a dancer at a recital: she is asked, for admission into one school, to give a performance incorporating various steps, movements, gyrations, etc which are standard fare for a dancer at her level - even though some of the steps may intimidate her. For another school, a purist-Diaghilev institution, admission to which is, in itself, an honor and professional advantage, she is asked to dance as Diaghilev would have danced to a piece of music previously unannounced and never performed by Diaghilev himself. While the analogy may be imperfect, I think it is clear that to perform well in the first example would be a simpler matter for all but the most Diaghilev-inclined, versatile dancers.



I agree with this, but ugh.

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pjarron
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby pjarron » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:58 pm

mabelgs wrote:
pjarron wrote:
razorzor wrote:
pjarron wrote:Any exam that primarily measures how many vocabulary words you remember and pre-algebra formulas is definitely easier than the LSAT. Plus the reading comp on the GRE was easier than the LSAT. I know people who scored in the low 150’s on the LSAT but scored in the 700’s on both sections of the GRE.


Any exam that primarily measures how many vocabulary words you remember out of the whole fucking dictionary is definitely harder than the LSAT. Plus the reading comp on the GRE was harder than the LSAT. I know people who scored low 500s on both sections of the GRE but 170+s on the LSAT.


I find it hard to believe that the people who have read enough complicated, jargon filled stuff to score a 170+ on the LSAT, generally, i mean generally-i'm sure somebody knows the 2 or 3 people who are exceptions- can at least score over 550 on both sections.


I know you're responding to this specific (and I'm sure exceptional) situation...I would like to mention that people who score 170+ on the LSAT would probably consider anything under 700 per section on the GRE a crappy score.


Yeah, I pretty much have to agree. I'm pretty sure somebody with a 170+ LSAT and a good GPA for graduate school, 3.5+, would find it odd that they can get into a T10 or T5 law school and not a T10 or T5 graduate program. If you get a top 1% LSAT, I'm pretty sure you would be pretty distraught and confused over not getting a similar GRE score.

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englawyer
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby englawyer » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:12 pm

LSAT vs GRE comes down to which weaknesses they expose: LSAT->logic, GRE->vocabulary. If you have bad vocabulary, you will do poorly on the GRE. If you have bad logic, you will do poorly on the LSAT.

I think vocabulary and logic are independent skill sets (for me personally, logic >>> vocabulary), so its tough to compare them. However, vocabulary is much easier to study/game than logic, so I would say LSAT is harder.

Pearalegal
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby Pearalegal » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:17 pm

englawyer wrote:LSAT vs GRE comes down to which weaknesses they expose: LSAT->logic, GRE->vocabulary. If you have bad vocabulary, you will do poorly on the GRE. If you have bad logic, you will do poorly on the LSAT.

I think vocabulary and logic are independent skill sets (for me personally, logic >>> vocabulary), so its tough to compare them. However, vocabulary is much easier to study/game than logic, so I would say LSAT is harder.



But...math. The GRE exposed my lopsided brain for what it was. I studied for the math too.

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englawyer
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby englawyer » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:47 am

The GRE exposed my lopsided brain for what it was. I studied for the math too.


me too (in the opposite direction). However, most of the grad programs I was looking at would be fine with a 400-600 verbal as long as the math was above 700. Do english/history/etc. grad programs care if you do poorly on the math?

18488
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby 18488 » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:30 am

I think GRE math is probably ridiculously easy for anyone who had to do any math in college, because it's pretty foundational stuff. But for many people who just haven't used math in years, and won't really use any math in grad school, the math section just tests material they forgot long ago and don't have any real reason to reacquire.

Also with the LSAT, I felt like I was really developing new and important thinking skills--the prep process was actually somewhat intellectually rewarding--I really can't imagine someone feeling the same way toward the GRE.

mabelgs
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby mabelgs » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:59 am

sbrown83 wrote:I think GRE math is probably ridiculously easy for anyone who had to do any math in college, because it's pretty foundational stuff. But for many people who just haven't used math in years, and won't really use any math in grad school, the math section just tests material they forgot long ago and don't have any real reason to reacquire.

Also with the LSAT, I felt like I was really developing new and important thinking skills--the prep process was actually somewhat intellectually rewarding--I really can't imagine someone feeling the same way toward the GRE.


+1.

Except for all the GRE vocab. I find that rewarding too. But the math is useless to anyone who isn't in a career that involves math...and people who are in a career that involves math will all get 800s on that section anyway! So...totally useless.

Pearalegal
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby Pearalegal » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:02 am

englawyer wrote:
The GRE exposed my lopsided brain for what it was. I studied for the math too.


me too (in the opposite direction). However, most of the grad programs I was looking at would be fine with a 400-600 verbal as long as the math was above 700. Do english/history/etc. grad programs care if you do poorly on the math?


It seemed like most programs I applied to (history) didn't really care about the GRE at all.

Oh, I decided not to go. I am not Dr. Pearalegal.

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Scythron
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby Scythron » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:02 pm

radical4peace wrote:
mabelgs wrote:
Scythron wrote:
radical4peace wrote:I think for most people the LSAT is harder because LR and LG are not like anything most of us have seen before. The GRE is like the SAT all grown up, so nothing too hard. I found the reading comp on the LSAT to be more difficult as well.

I'm not very good at math and got a 1300 on the GRE -- around 90th percentile verbal and 50th percentile math. That was with basically no studying and just a half-assed attempt to review some vocab and math tricks before test day.

On the other hand, I studied both on my own and with a tutor (total of about 15 hours) for the LSAT. Diagnostic was around a 155 because LR was kinda weird and LG totally freaked me out. I had to learn how to do these types of questions. After studying, I got a 162. LR became easy and well, LG still freaked me out. :(

Bottom line: Most people will work harder to get the same percentile score on the LSAT compared to the GRE.


Attributing the qualities of an individual to a group. Thanks for letting me practice my flaw in reasoning.


:lol:


:shakes head: You know what I mean. I think most people who take both tests would find the LSAT requires more studying and work. Just my two cents.


I agree, I'm just busting your balls. Once you get LSAT in your brain you can't get it out.

stewknew
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby stewknew » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:06 pm

LSAT is no question more challenging i think...

the GRE math is super easy and the vocab/english section is marginally more difficult

i studied 4.5 months for the LSAT and 2 for the GRE and i scored 98 percentile on both

make of that what you will

william wallace
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby william wallace » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:03 am

Would love to get this going again. Should I just start a new thread with a link to this one?

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PDaddy
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Re: LSAT vs. GRE: which is harder IYO?

Postby PDaddy » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:13 am

The LSAT is the kingdaddy of all of the tests. I'd rather take the MCAT than the LSAT.




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