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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:09 pm 
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MrGradgrind wrote:
This has to be a flame. Unless someone is immortal, then its common knowledge that law school for people that close to the age of retirement is a waste of time and money. Law school is too expensive for the investment of time and money to be worth it at that age. Chances are the TC, even if he/she graduated wouldn't get much of a return on their investment, especially since there are too many lawyers right now AND employers are known to favor younger workers for hiring unless an older candidate is a last resort or if they have special qualifications (which the TC lacks for legal work due to not even having a JD as of now).

I'm ashamed of myself for not catching it the first time, but why post this thread in the LSAT Prep Forum when a thread like this clearly belongs in the Law School Admissions Forum?


That's moronic. This guy could easily practice law for 25 or more years. I know a number of people who practiced law into their eighties.

25 years of doing something you enjoy is definitely worth the cost of law school.

OP-my dad went to law school when he was in his late thirties, and created a study group with all of the other students who were 35-60. The people in their group got the top grades in pretty much every class. According to my dad, it really pissed off the kids in their 20s.

Do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:49 pm 
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Other25BeforeYou wrote:
OP-my dad went to law school when he was in his late thirties, and created a study group with all of the other students who were 35-60. The people in their group got the top grades in pretty much every class. According to my dad, it really pissed off the kids in their 20s.

Do it.


OP, you've got about a decade on me, but as Other says-- Do it.

You're not looking at any schools on my list, but if we were at the same school, we could follow "dad's" lead and kick @$$ on the traditional 1Ls. (Do a forum search for "non trad" and you'll see there are plenty of posts you might find helpful)


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:52 am 
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Other25BeforeYou wrote:
MrGradgrind wrote:
This has to be a flame. Unless someone is immortal, then its common knowledge that law school for people that close to the age of retirement is a waste of time and money. Law school is too expensive for the investment of time and money to be worth it at that age. Chances are the TC, even if he/she graduated wouldn't get much of a return on their investment, especially since there are too many lawyers right now AND employers are known to favor younger workers for hiring unless an older candidate is a last resort or if they have special qualifications (which the TC lacks for legal work due to not even having a JD as of now).

I'm ashamed of myself for not catching it the first time, but why post this thread in the LSAT Prep Forum when a thread like this clearly belongs in the Law School Admissions Forum?


That's moronic. This guy could easily practice law for 25 or more years. I know a number of people who practiced law into their eighties.

25 years of doing something you enjoy is definitely worth the cost of law school.

OP-my dad went to law school when he was in his late thirties, and created a study group with all of the other students who were 35-60. The people in their group got the top grades in pretty much every class. According to my dad, it really pissed off the kids in their 20s.

Do it.


Actually that sounds like a gread idea. I will be 34 when I start so my group would be 34+


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:30 am 
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That makes sense. I plan on practicing in the Jacksonville area so it really doesn't matter so much where I go. However, if I can score in the 165-170 range than I will apply to the Tier 1 schools. My first choice would be Northwestern or the University of Chicago. Unlike most Southern guys, I like it up North. I do love Chicago, although it can get cold.


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:38 am 
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uvalaw4l wrote:
MrGradgrind wrote:
nitsudrx wrote:
No reason to choose schools until you have some idea of how you are going to do on the LSAT. If you are practicing in the 170's (which would be quite an achievement for someone 30 years out of undergrad, but definitely attainable) then no reason to look at Tier 4's. If in the 140's or 150's, you might want to look exclusively at Tier 3/Tier 4's.


A law degree from any Tier 3 or 4 school is useful as little more than toilet paper. Very few people, if any take a JD from a Tier 3 or 4 school seriously, which is why many people avoid those schools like the plague and the T14/Tier 1 or Bust mentality is so commonplace.


They can do fine as solo practitioners. Those schools are avoided because people want good job prospects. But if you're aiming at working for yourself, it doesn't matter.


Not to mention public defender work, or even local prosecutor positions are good options for strong regional tier 3, tier 4 schools. You're an idiot and spreading vile nonsense, like usual.


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:57 am 
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I don't have to practice law. I have an insurance practice which is starting to click. I may just use a legal education to do some high dollar estate planning. Although, I could be a public defender or a prosecutor. Let's get me a 160+ on the LSAT and into law school before we make any decisions. I'm leaning toward selling my insurance practice and practicing law.


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:58 am 
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I always admire people that do this, don't give up on your dreams just because of your age.


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:17 pm 
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I truly believe that a person can achieve anything if they are willing to pay a price. I just wish I'd gone when I was first accepted, but no I had to take a few years off and work. Thiry some odd years later, I still haven't gone. I don't know, maybe it's best this way as I'm more determined. committed and disciplined. The LSAT is a bear, no question. However, the insurance exams and the securities licensing exams are no day at the beach. WIll I get the $100K/yr starting salary from BIG LAW ? Probably not. But I can either go out on my own or work for a boutique law firm and make a nice living. If I become a red hot criminal defense attorney then I could get very well very soon. Lord knows there is a lot of work there.


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:41 pm 
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uvalaw4l wrote:
They can do fine as solo practitioners. Those schools are avoided because people want good job prospects. But if you're aiming at working for yourself, it doesn't matter.


Why should a person go to a school with underwhelming job prospects? An individual may as well use any degrees that they already possess instead of going to a TTT while possibly incurring a lot of debt just to have poor job prospects. There is a reason TTT stands for third tier toilet.


ChrisMike624 wrote:
Not to mention public defender work, or even local prosecutor positions are good options for strong regional tier 3, tier 4 schools. You're an idiot and spreading vile nonsense, like usual.


Those are not exactly high paying positions. Law school is way too expensive and time consuming to not maximize the potential profit from all the money and 3 years worth of work. Most people begin their post undergraduate life with some debt, whether it is credit card or undergrad loan debt is irrelevant. Very few people graduate from law school without debt, so why let the loan linger and grow due to having a JD from a school that isn't as marketable as a T14 or Tier 1 school?

Whether anyone likes it or not, T14 and some Tier 1 schools basically print money and money is one of the most important things in life. If you want to make your points more convincing, then name calling won't make your arguments any more convincing, all name calling does is make you look a lot more childish than you should be at your age and education level.


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:48 pm 
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That's true. Money talks and hogwash walks.


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:55 pm 
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texaslawyer wrote:
That's true. Money talks and hogwash walks.


This is definitive proof that this thread is a flame. Anyone that knows that money talks would not consider going to a TTT. I'm just glad that I was the first person to see this thread for what it was. In any case, I'm done with this thread. I wonder how many more people will cheer you on in their naiveté while citing anecdotal evidence.


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:47 pm 
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MrGradgrind wrote:
uvalaw4l wrote:
They can do fine as solo practitioners. Those schools are avoided because people want good job prospects. But if you're aiming at working for yourself, it doesn't matter.


Why should a person go to a school with underwhelming job prospects? An individual may as well use any degrees that they already possess instead of going to a TTT while possibly incurring a lot of debt just to have poor job prospects. There is a reason TTT stands for third tier toilet.


Why do you need job prospects when you plan on working for yourself? If you are solo, a lot of clients don't care where you went to school. Most non-lawyers aren't familiar with rankings anyways.


quote="MrGradgrind"]
ChrisMike624 wrote:
Not to mention public defender work, or even local prosecutor positions are good options for strong regional tier 3, tier 4 schools. You're an idiot and spreading vile nonsense, like usual.


Those are not exactly high paying positions. Law school is way too expensive and time consuming to not maximize the potential profit from all the money and 3 years worth of work. Most people begin their post undergraduate life with some debt, whether it is credit card or undergrad loan debt is irrelevant. Very few people graduate from law school without debt, so why let the loan linger and grow due to having a JD from a school that isn't as marketable as a T14 or Tier 1 school?

Whether anyone likes it or not, T14 and some Tier 1 schools basically print money and money is one of the most important things in life. If you want to make your points more convincing, then name calling won't make your arguments any more convincing, all name calling does is make you look a lot more childish than you should be at your age and education level.[/quote]

How much do they make if you are so familiar? I didn't think they made much either, but someone posted the website for Riverside DAs and they make 60K their first year. 70K after that. Plus government jobs are sweet.

This guy is at a different point in his life. He probably has a home, nice car, credit and other things we who went straight through don't have. Maybe he's not looking to maximize profit and just wants to do something he enjoys. Law can be extremely enjoyable even if you aren't pulling 160K.

I went to T14 because I wanted BIGLAW. If I were going to work for myself, I'd have gone to UH or STCL. I know grads from both of those schools who, after a decade, make really good money. It's not impossible.


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:51 pm 
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Thank you uvalaw for some sanity, and a reality check... Some of us aren't in this for high paying positions and actually want to do low-paying work for enjoyment and fulfillment... Also some of us non-trads can afford to go to law school without taking out a loan. Something you people that have been working for an entire three years max can't even comprehend.


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:04 pm 
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I don't say that I wouldn't go BIG LAW if the opportunity presented itself, but the likelihood is not very likely. I do have some nice things, but I do still possess the ambition and drive to get ahead. If one doesn't have this then go do something mundane and be bored to tears. I imagine I will hang out my own shingle and work 80-100hrs/wk. I might not start out at $160K but I'll get there. Uvalaw you're right I don't have to go to a T1 school, but I will if I can get in. I've heard that the T1 schools don't like us non traditional students. A friend of mine went to Duke law at 45 and he said he never felt welcome. I don't know. What would it be like at UVA ?


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:09 pm 
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One of the reason that law schools do actually accept non-traditional students (older students) with lower scores/grades than the traditional students is that they actually value the insights and perspectives that come with age/experience. Specifically, working for a few years will usually teach you via first-hand experience that sometimes your viewpoint on a topic isn't necessarily the only valid one. I showed some of the posts on this thread to some people on admissions committees (including 2 deans) at Tier 1 schools. Without fail they laughed at how some people who assume they will excel in top law school lack that very skill.


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:26 pm 
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Brent wrote:
One of the reason that law schools do actually accept non-traditional students (older students) with lower scores/grades than the traditional students is that they actually value the insights and perspectives that come with age/experience. Specifically, working for a few years will usually teach you via first-hand experience that sometimes your viewpoint on a topic isn't necessarily the only valid one. I showed some of the posts on this thread to some people on admissions committees (including 2 deans) at Tier 1 schools. Without fail they laughed at how some people who assume they will excel in top law school lack that very skill.


Agreed, this age is about 33 years old :)


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:32 pm 
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Brent and jack 123,

Thank you for your insight. I believe that I can cut the mustard at any school I am accepted. Brent, I have the guts to do this, I started my own business at 53 and I'm 56 so law school seems within reason to me. If I had my choice of schools and money was no oject my choices would be 1)Stanford 2)University of Chicago 3)Duke 4) UVA 5) Georgetown and 6)Northwestern. I really love the Chicago area which I know is unusual for a Texan. I'll probably end up at Florida Coastal because my family and business are in Jacksonville, Fl. Furthermore, I go to church with half of the legal community and many of the judges. Many have said they would write letters of recommendation for me. I like this board, it's active and thought provoking. That is what we future and present attorneys MUST do is think. All too often we don't. I've seen stduents who hit 175+, 4.0 GPA fall flat on their faces and I've seen 155-160 LSAT, 3.2 GPAs do famously. I believe that law school is much like the NFL. Just because someone has the right pedgree doesn't mean they are going to be sucessful.


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:37 pm 
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Sounds all to familiar. I am mid 50's and went to grad school to improve my chances of getting into Columbia or NYU. By the time I finished gradf school I was burned out and then got married with kids following shortly thereafter. When you get back on line give me a shout. I would love to pick your brain.


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:51 pm 
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texaslawyer wrote:
Brent and jack 123,
Thank you for your insight. I believe that I can cut the mustard at any school I am accepted. Brent, I have the guts to do this, I started my own business at 53 and I'm 56 so law school seems within reason to me....


I think its great and wish you all the success!! Negative people are always there to bring people down - maturity teaches us to ignore them. They often cant help themselves

Similar to you,I postponed LS in 1990 for great business opportunity which was very successful - now I'm starting LS this August and could not be more excited. I'll be 44 in July and love the fact that I am going back. As a previous posted mentioned, you'll have plenty of years to put the eduction to good use.

Bravo to you my Texas friend.


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:05 pm 
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SmittyLaw wrote:
Definitely take the time to study for the LSAT - with the PowerScore books you should definitely get out of the 140s.I would recommend reading a couple of informal logic books to learn the basics of argument structure and fallacies. You can do it!



Recommend away my friend...


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:07 pm 
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Flame or not, its the first time I have ever seen anybody list Northwestern and Florida Coastal in their set of school choices.


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:14 pm 
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this is totally not a real thread.. flame flame flame..

no one would go to law school at 50 that has any expectations of a decent retirement...plus that grouping of schools shows that the guy is either joking or has no idea what he's talking about


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:39 am 
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Milkwasabadchoice I grant you my choices of schools maybe unusual, but at my age I don't have to go to a T1. Granted, this was before I knew what schools were the top, middle and bottom. I definitely know what I'm talking about. As I see it most people on this board are so obessed with getting into a T1 school, getting hired by a Big Law firm and start out $150000+ and make partner in 7-8 years. Most won't get near a top flight school or hired by Big Law. The ones that do 90 % of the time will be gone in 2-3 years and will end up in some mundane, dead end job hating life. I think what unsettles most traditional students is that we non-trads have all the foolishness out our systems and we usually do quite well when we go back to school.


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:52 am 
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even if you do "quite well", I'm just surprised that you would want to start a career at 53 years old...

What type of law will you practice? How much do you have saved for retirement? Can you use a computer? Do you spend 30 min. in the grocery store trying to decide which granola cereal to buy? Do you decide in the end to just not buy granola cereal and then drive home going 35 in the right lane of a two laned highway?


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 Post subject: Re: Law school after 50
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:00 am 
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milkwasabadchoice wrote:
this is totally not a real thread.. flame flame flame..

no one would go to law school at 50 that has any expectations of a decent retirement...plus that grouping of schools shows that the guy is either joking or has no idea what he's talking about


This is not a flame. texaslawyer has been posting plenty since he joined last fall. None of his threads/posts have been flames or garbage, he is a respectable poster trying to follow his dreams. Props texaslawyer!


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