BP' or TM's or PS's online course to move up from ~170?

pretzellogic
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BP' or TM's or PS's online course to move up from ~170?

Postby pretzellogic » Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:51 pm

First off, I really appreciate any help! I've been scouring the forum relevant info, but haven't quite found it, so I'll pose my question myself, after I provide some background. I plan on buying one of these online courses. Please, help out a first-time poster if you have the knowledge I seek and the time to comment!

I've been scoring about 170 to 173 pretty consistently on timed prep tests. I am *not* finishing the 4th logic game. This is where I lose most of my points every time. My accuracy on the games is good -- but not perfect -- for those questions which I finish.

I "should" be getting at least a 173, based on my "abilities" as measured by other tests... (I understand, of course, that the LSAT performance is not necessarily a function of SAT, GRE, or IQ performance for everyone, but you get my point.)

I have prepared quite a lot -- I've put in several months, taken many prep tests, read the LG Bible, read and continued working through "Ace the LSAT Logic Games", Nova's Master the LSAT, taken notes explaining my wrong answers to make sure I learn the lessons, etc. The Logic Games are just not budging. Other sections have been slowly and surely giving some ground, I believe. Obviously, I had an enormous performance boost in the first few months of study. The LR and RC are improving; the logic games are not budging. Thus, the logic games are the focus -- but I still want to attain perfection in the LR and RC, or get as close to perfection as possible. In a nutshell, I want it all, but the biggest weakness is by far the logic games. Practice practice practice is not moving the LG score -- so...

NOW THE QUESTION:
(Please remember that I welcome any comments from people who took the classroom courses of BP, TM, or even PS, as long as you make it clear what benefits you accrued due to the use of the printed materials and online resources, which is what all I will have access to. I have plenty of time -- if one course is best, but only if you have the time, then let me know, because I do have the time -- just not at the times of day one needs for the classroom course.)

1) Does anyone here believe/know that taking the Testmasters online course or Blueprint online course (BP: the movie) will be very likely to help someone in my situation improve their score??

As I said, I score in the 170's consistently, but below 173. I think I'm capable of approaching 180. My logic games performance is what is holding me back the most.

2) Is there something in the Testmasters printed course materials / Testmasters online videos that will help me bring my performance in the logic games, as well as in Log. Reasoning and Reading Comp. close to the level of perfection attained by Robin Singh?

3) Is there something in the Blueprint printed course materials / Blueprint online videos that will do what I alluded to above, i.e. bring my performance, esp. in the logic games

4) Does anyone recommend (for me) the Testmasters course materials / online videos over the Blueprint course materials / online videos? Why? Do either provide the printed materials/online videos that would be helpful in getting a score from the low 170's to the high 170's? Would both of them serve? Which is better for logic games? Would TM if the BP situation scares me off? Or are the printed materials / videos unlikely to help someone already at this level?

5) Which one of the two programs above has the strongest printed materials / online videos for improving my LG score? Are the printed materials or the online videos more important for the LG? (If you took it in the classroom, was the lecture or the book readin'/practice the most important factor in getting your LG from around 170 to the high 170's (or wherever your improvement occurred)?

6) Finally, is there any other common wisdom on moving scores from 170 to 180 that anyone would like to share? Practice and the Bibles have hit a wall for the games. (Practice is still chugging upwards for the rest of the test.) So, I need practice and something new. Is it BP or TM? Or even the Powerscore online course? (I guess I'm just assuming I've got all that PS has to offer on the games from the Bible, and am thus more or less ruling it out as an option -- if anyone begs to differ about the validity of my assumption, I welcome your comments.) Again -- this is for a person who is already in the 170's!!!!!!!!!!! I know many people draw a distinction between the efficacy of various materials and prep strategies for improvements over different parts of the curve. Please keep the fact we're talking about going from 170-173 now to 177-180 in December.

7) Any comments on Powerscore's online course FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS ALREADY EXHAUSTED THE LG BIBLE'S USEFULNESS AND IS MOST IN NEED OF IMPROVEMENT ON LOGIC GAMES????

The Nutshell:
I'm in the 170's, closer to 170 than to 180. I want, very badly, to get to the very high 170's.

Is a TM online course or BP online course the best way to do this? (Tons of practice is already a given.)


Please remember -- I'm not referring to the classroom courses. I'm referring to the online courses which include the same materials you receive in the classroom courses. If you took the classroom course from TM or BP (or PS), please make your review of the printed materials / online videos, etc. distinct from your impressions of the course as a whole. I do not have the ability to take a classroom course, but I have PLENTY of time to spend on the LSAT.

I will be taking the test in December. Please, don't tell me practice, practice, practice on preptests, because the LG score is simply not budging like that. If you would recommend the powerscore materials -- even for someone who already has the bibles -- I'd love to hear the why.

Much appreciation to all who can help me out. I apologize if my length bothers you, I get that all the time. (In bed.)
Last edited by pretzellogic on Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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voltron
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Re: BP' or TM's "self-study" materials to move up from ~170?

Postby voltron » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:07 pm

pretzellogic wrote:First off, I really appreciate any help! I've been scouring the forum relevant info, but haven't quite found it, so I'll pose my question myself, after I provide some background. I plan on buying one of these online courses. Please, help out a first-time poster if you have the knowledge I seek and the time to comment!

I've been scoring about 170 to 173 pretty consistently on timed prep tests. I am *not* finishing the 4th logic game. This is where I lose most of my points every time. My accuracy on the games is good -- but not perfect -- for those questions which I finish.

I "should" be getting at least a 173, based on my "abilities" as measured by other tests... (I understand, of course, that the LSAT performance is not necessarily a function of SAT, GRE, or IQ performance for everyone, but you get my point.)

I have prepared quite a lot -- I've put in several months, taken many prep tests, read the LG Bible, read and continued working through "Ace the LSAT Logic Games", Nova's Master the LSAT, taken notes explaining my wrong answers to make sure I learn the lessons, etc. The Logic Games are just not budging. Other sections have been slowly and surely giving some ground, I believe. Obviously, I had an enormous performance boost in the first few months of study. The LR and RC are improving; the logic games are not budging. Thus, the logic games are the focus -- but I still want to attain perfection in the LR and RC, or get as close to perfection as possible. In a nutshell, I want it all, but the biggest weakness is by far the logic games. Practice practice practice is not moving the LG score -- so...

NOW THE QUESTION:
(Please remember that I welcome any comments from people who took the classroom courses of BP, TM, or even PS, as long as you make it clear what benefits you accrued due to the use of the printed materials and online resources, which is what all I will have access to. I have plenty of time -- if one course is best, but only if you have the time, then let me know, because I do have the time -- just not at the times of day one needs for the classroom course.)

1) Does anyone here believe/know that taking the Testmasters online course or Blueprint online course (BP: the movie) will be very likely to help someone in my situation improve their score??

As I said, I score in the 170's consistently, but below 173. I think I'm capable of approaching 180. My logic games performance is what is holding me back the most.

2) Is there something in the Testmasters printed course materials / Testmasters online videos that will help me bring my performance in the logic games, as well as in Log. Reasoning and Reading Comp. close to the level of perfection attained by Robin Singh?

3) Is there something in the Blueprint printed course materials / Blueprint online videos that will do what I alluded to above, i.e. bring my performance, esp. in the logic games

4) Does anyone recommend (for me) the Testmasters course materials / online videos over the Blueprint course materials / online videos? Why? Do either provide the printed materials/online videos that would be helpful in getting a score from the low 170's to the high 170's? Would both of them serve? Which is better for logic games? Would TM if the BP situation scares me off? Or are the printed materials / videos unlikely to help someone already at this level?

5) Which one of the two programs above has the strongest printed materials / online videos for improving my LG score? Are the printed materials or the online videos more important for the LG? (If you took it in the classroom, was the lecture or the book readin'/practice the most important factor in getting your LG from around 170 to the high 170's (or wherever your improvement occurred)?

6) Finally, is there any other common wisdom on moving scores from 170 to 180 that anyone would like to share? Practice and the Bibles have hit a wall for the games. (Practice is still chugging upwards for the rest of the test.) So, I need practice and something new. Is it BP or TM? Or even the Powerscore online course? (I guess I'm just assuming I've got all that PS has to offer on the games from the Bible, and am thus more or less ruling it out as an option -- if anyone begs to differ about the validity of my assumption, I welcome your comments.) Again -- this is for a person who is already in the 170's!!!!!!!!!!! I know many people draw a distinction between the efficacy of various materials and prep strategies for improvements over different parts of the curve. Please keep the fact we're talking about going from 170-173 now to 177-180 in December.

7) Any comments on Powerscore's online course FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS ALREADY EXHAUSTED THE LG BIBLE'S USEFULNESS AND IS MOST IN NEED OF IMPROVEMENT ON LOGIC GAMES????

The Nutshell:
I'm in the 170's, closer to 170 than to 180. I want, very badly, to get to the very high 170's.

Is a TM online course or BP online course the best way to do this? (Tons of practice is already a given.)


Please remember -- I'm not referring to the classroom courses. I'm referring to the online courses which include the same materials you receive in the classroom courses. If you took the classroom course from TM or BP (or PS), please make your review of the printed materials / online videos, etc. distinct from your impressions of the course as a whole. I do not have the ability to take a classroom course, but I have PLENTY of time to spend on the LSAT.

I will be taking the test in December. Please, don't tell me practice, practice, practice on preptests, because the LG score is simply not budging like that. If you would recommend the powerscore materials -- even for someone who already has the bibles -- I'd love to hear the why.

Much appreciation to all who can help me out. I apologize if my length bothers you, I get that all the time. (In bed.)


Last I heared California courts have shut down BP. So BP may be out of the picture.

pretzellogic
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Re: BP' or TM's "self-study" materials to move up from ~170?

Postby pretzellogic » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:21 pm

OK, BP may be out. Will the TM online course be the best way for me to move from the low 170's to the high 180's? Given all that's been written above?

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blhblahblah
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Re: BP' or TM's "self-study" materials to move up from ~170?

Postby blhblahblah » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:35 pm

TM is generally regarded as the best LSAT preparation company money can buy. That said, taking TM online doesn't necessarily mean it will be the best way to fine tune your scoring habits. You might be better off retaining the services of a private tutor. If I'm not mistaken, TM also offers private tutoring services, the staff of which are probably second to none. Or you can do it the good old fashion way and keep taking tests, going over your errors, looking for any salient patterns, and gearing your improvement strategy to specifically target those areas.

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blhblahblah
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Re: BP' or TM's "self-study" materials to move up from ~170?

Postby blhblahblah » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:38 pm

You should also be aware of the fact that the difference between a 175 and 180 is more luck than skill. The LSAT isn't designed to reliably distinguish people within this range. On any given day, the same person equipped with the same skills can vary anywhere between this range, and this would have hardly anything to do with lacking adequate preparation. In this range, the smallest factors play the biggest roles (minor distractions, temporary thought lapses, etc.)

pretzellogic
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Re: BP' or TM's "self-study" materials to move up from ~170?

Postby pretzellogic » Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:52 pm

Thanks for the replies... I understand your point blah. However, and I'm sure you'd be likely to agree, there's still room to improve for someone who is scoring at my level. (I.e., below 175, and above 170, consistently). If I could start scoring between 175 and 180 consistently, I'd feel quite good.

In regard to the question of private tutoring, the money would just be too much.

Basically, I'm pretty likely to get one of these online courses. I may not, depending on what I hear here, but that's what I'm after. As I've written, my mine problem is logic games.

Will TM's online course be best for that, rather than PS's online course? (Apparently, as one poster said, BP is done for...)

I'd really love to hear from anyone who did TM's online course, or PS's online course. I've seen many references to BP solo on this site, but almost nothing about TM's online course or PS's online course. Is Robert Singh the instructor in the videos for TM's online course?!?!?

I'd also really love to hear from anyone who has something positive or negative to say about the PRINTED MATERIALS from TM or PS. As I wrote, I already have the LGB and the LRB. Which would be the best material to study from here on out -- the PS online course materials (same as classroom course) or the TM online course materials (same as classroom course)? Obviously, those who took the regular classroom course could answer this for me.

In addition, anyone who pushed their score from around 170 after a couple months of study towards the high 170's after a few more months would make me very happy if they would share something.

Anybody who was hung up on finishing the 4th logic game after a few months, while still getting above 170 on the test, who managed to "sure up" their performance would also be able to shed some light on the best way for me to proceed.

Thanks to those who will answer, and to those who already have!

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Lyov Myshkin
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Re: BP' or TM's or PS's online course to move up from ~170?

Postby Lyov Myshkin » Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:53 pm

i think you can find bp solo stuff on craigslist if you live in la or sf.

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blhblahblah
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Re: BP' or TM's or PS's online course to move up from ~170?

Postby blhblahblah » Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:54 pm

Well if you suck at logic games, read the LGB. Seriously, you can get perfect on them. And if games are keeping you from crossing the 175 line, the goal of crossing it is definitely realistic given your weakness.

ed. just read your post more fully, and I guess you do have the LGB. Well, then keep redoing games over and over again. Eventually, you'll learn to make big inferential leaps that will help you bank extra time for that last game.

pretzellogic
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Re: TM's or PS's or BP's online course to move up from ~170?

Postby pretzellogic » Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:07 pm

Yeah, I live in SF, so I could find it on craigslist, thanks for the tip. I think I'd opt for the course, though, not just the books, which means that BP may be out of the question, according to the first reply. Thus, I'm looking hard at TM, and also considering PS, now. The luck comment is understood; however, I think materials could make a big difference, too, even at the highest reaches of the curve.

Doesn't anyone think buying the online course for TM or PS is worthwhile for pushing a person from low-170's to the high-170's? This is really the main point of interest for me... Which of these has the most to offer to people already in the low 170's whose practice has hit a very distinct and lasting wall with the logic games section, even as performance elsewhere in the LSAT improves?

Someone has an opinion on which is better for this purpose, right? Is PS's online course or TM's online course better for me? Esp. when it's logic games holding me back from averaging in the high 170's rather than the low 170's?

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Lyov Myshkin
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Re: TM's or PS's or BP's online course to move up from ~170?

Postby Lyov Myshkin » Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:15 pm

pretzellogic wrote:Yeah, I live in SF, so I could find it on craigslist, thanks for the tip. I think I'd opt for the course, though, not just the books, which means that BP may be out of the question, according to the first reply. Thus, I'm looking hard at TM, and also considering PS, now. The luck comment is understood; however, I think materials could make a big difference, too, even at the highest reaches of the curve.

Doesn't anyone think buying the online course for TM or PS is worthwhile for pushing a person from low-170's to the high-170's? This is really the main point of interest for me... Which of these has the most to offer to people already in the low 170's whose practice has hit a very distinct and lasting wall with the logic games section, even as performance elsewhere in the LSAT improves?

Someone has an opinion on which is better for this purpose, right? Is PS's online course or TM's online course better for me? Esp. when it's logic games holding me back from averaging in the high 170's rather than the low 170's?


exposure. just do every game in every commercial logic games book you can find, explore various methods and find what works for you. a prep course is kinda overpriced and likely to be of little benefit (that you couldn't obtain yourself) if you're only having trouble with games, imo.

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Stanley Otto Swift
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Re: BP' or TM's or PS's online course to move up from ~170?

Postby Stanley Otto Swift » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:33 pm

TM doesn't have an "online class" per se. It's just a bunch of explanations and supplemental materials, and I doubt very seriously that it would be of any help to you if you're already in the 170s. At that point, you either need a baller tutor, or you have to keep plugging along on your own. Online courses will be of no use to you, you're too strong.

Regarding games, I reiterate the advice I gave here:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=40106&p=872361#p872361

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neskerdoo
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Re: BP' or TM's "self-study" materials to move up from ~170?

Postby neskerdoo » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:39 pm

pretzellogic wrote:OK, BP may be out. Will the TM online course be the best way for me to move from the low 170's to the high 180's? Given all that's been written above?


^retarded


almost as much as the second poster who quoted the OP's tome

Bankhead
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Re: BP' or TM's or PS's online course to move up from ~170?

Postby Bankhead » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:01 pm

your LOGIC GAMES performance is what is holding you back???? Do every logic in existance...twice. If you are intelligent enough to master the other two sections you can certainly get a perfect on logic games. It's a matter of practice, even more so then the other two sections are.
You owe it to yourself to master this section. I doubt you need a course.

pretzellogic
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Re: BP' or TM's or PS's online course to move up from ~170?

Postby pretzellogic » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:09 pm

Yeah, that's retardation for you -- a slip of a finger on a computer keyboard. Retardation existing concurrently with an IQ above 140.

pretzellogic
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Re: BP' or TM's or PS's online course to move up from ~170?

Postby pretzellogic » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:12 pm

Thanks for all the replies. I guess I'll have to just keep working as I am, and hope for the best... It's unfortunate that a higher score is one of the things money can't buy.

tocanuk
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Re: BP' or TM's or PS's online course to move up from ~170?

Postby tocanuk » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:45 pm

Wow, pretzellogic. I hope we don't end up at the same LS. You sound like a total douchebag. No offense intended. Just callin' it like I see it.

TCR to your "problem" is to get all the past games (approx. 225 of them) and do them repeatedly, proving and disproving every answer choice.

If you are completely retarded when it comes to games, then you might want to classify the games into types (linear, sequence, etc) and difficulty, and then do everything by type first, then by difficulty. Rinse. Lather. Repeat.

A prep-course will be a complete waste of time for you.

jeeeeez.
Last edited by tocanuk on Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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blhblahblah
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Re: BP' or TM's or PS's online course to move up from ~170?

Postby blhblahblah » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:53 pm

lol @ sporting his IQ

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bluejayk
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Re: BP' or TM's or PS's online course to move up from ~170?

Postby bluejayk » Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:16 am

blhblahblah wrote:lol @ sporting his IQ


Yeah, that's so cringe-inducing, it's hard to believe anyone actually thinks like that.

To the OP: a prep-course is almost definitely going to be a waste of your time. 90% of students in prep classes are 140-150 scorers trying to hit 160-165.

Your best bet is practice, or plunking down the change for a really good tutor. I don't understand why it's out of your budget but an online class is. You probably could get away with 4-5 two hours sessions to pick up a few tricks and eliminate bad habits in the games section. Anyway, you might have to live with the ignominy of a low 170's score. Not everyone can do it, you might just not be fast enough.

tocanuk
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Re: BP' or TM's or PS's online course to move up from ~170?

Postby tocanuk » Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:26 am

bluejayk wrote:Anyway, you might have to live with the ignominy of a low 170's score. Not everyone can do it, you might just not be fast enough.


But he's got retardation existing concurrently with an IQ above 140!!!!

ZOMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!

8-O!!!!!

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Lyov Myshkin
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Re: BP' or TM's or PS's online course to move up from ~170?

Postby Lyov Myshkin » Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:38 am

tocanuk wrote:
bluejayk wrote:Anyway, you might have to live with the ignominy of a low 170's score. Not everyone can do it, you might just not be fast enough.


But he's got retardation existing concurrently with an IQ above 140!!!!

ZOMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!

8-O!!!!!


aspergers

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Stanley Otto Swift
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Re: BP' or TM's or PS's online course to move up from ~170?

Postby Stanley Otto Swift » Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:41 am

Regarding a tutor:

You don't necessarily need to schedule dozens of hours to get what you need. You could probably find someone solid (especially in Cali) to work with you for 10 hours or so at approximately the cost of Powerscore's online course. Just a thought if you're really serious about this.

pretzellogic
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Re: BP' or TM's or PS's online course to move up from ~170?

Postby pretzellogic » Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:56 pm

A douchebag?

The guy called me retarded. I pointed out that I wasn't retarded, and gave the only evidence one can give for that contention. (However flawed that particular evidence may be, it's still what you're left with.)

If somebody replied to one of my posts by saying I sound like a fat chick, and I pointed out my weight and build rule that out, would I be a douche?

People like you need to get over your hang-ups about what one can talk about when it comes to intelligence (g), and imperfect measures of intelligence (IQ). We can all talk about our LSAT score, right? If I would've said, I'm not retarded I got a 175, what would you say then? Well, I didn't take the real deal yet. I really hate people being hung-up about that crap. I used to tell people my SAT score when they asked. Now I'm turning into the kind of true d-bag who just says "I did well". I hate that... Shooting your mouth off about it? Yeah, that's d-baggish. Defending yourself against rude insults or answering someone's direct question? Most certainly not d-baggish.

And what do you mean that you can't believe I 'think like that' or whatever you said????? That I think having a high IQ is a good rebuttal to a claim that I'm a retard seems weird to you?

"Which of the following facts would most weaken thatguy◘'s contention that I'm retarded?"
A. I'm tall
B. I'm fat
C. I have a high IQ.

That answer was C. I gave the obvious response.

Generally, in life, the person who calls you RETARDED for a simple mistake is the douchebag. Not the guy who defends himself against such an accusation with sarcasm and a simple fact.

Thanks for the responses, anyhow; the people here are so helpful that they'll respond to someone they think is a douchebag! Very nice of you all!

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bluejayk
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Re: BP' or TM's or PS's online course to move up from ~170?

Postby bluejayk » Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:34 pm

You seem to be confused about more than just the LSAT. There's a difference between being an asshole and being a douchebag. The guy who called you retarded is an asshole. Originally, based on your posts in this thread, I'd have pegged you as a douchebag. However, after your breathless defense of mentioning your IQ.. well, maybe the Asperger's syndrome guy is right.

Here's a tip to make the whole issue easier to understand: When someone calls you retarded, they don't actually think you have a physiological disability. It's a colloquialism that suggests you are foolish or acting foolishly. So responding with a self-report of your IQ doesn't refute the assertion. Paradoxically, it only reinforces the original idea.

You come off really douchey in that last post man, give it a rest. Never, ever mention what you believe your IQ is unless directly questioned about it. That's serious advice.

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Re: BP' or TM's or PS's online course to move up from ~170?

Postby teaadntoast » Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:52 pm

Given the very limited scope of your problem, I don't think a test prep course will be an effective use of your money or your time. If I'm understanding your post correctly, you lose most of your points not because you are struggling with a particular game type, but because you aren't finishing the section. Courses like BP, TM and PS aren't really designed to address that issue - they help people improve their performance by improving comprehension and accuracy.

The best way to address a timing problem, in my experience, is to simply complete as many logic games as possible under timed conditions. By that I mean both practice sections in 35 minute increments and individual games in 8.5 minute increments. This will, if nothing else, train you to recognize when you're running out of time, and highlight any specific game types that pose a problem. I didn't realize, for example, that grouping games were a weakness of mine until I timed myself on a per question basis and discovered how much extra time I spent on them.

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neskerdoo
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Re: BP' or TM's or PS's online course to move up from ~170?

Postby neskerdoo » Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:05 pm

pretzellogic wrote:A douchebag?

The guy called me retarded. I pointed out that I wasn't retarded, and gave the only evidence one can give for that contention. (However flawed that particular evidence may be, it's still what you're left with.)

If somebody replied to one of my posts by saying I sound like a fat chick, and I pointed out my weight and build rule that out, would I be a douche?

People like you need to get over your hang-ups about what one can talk about when it comes to intelligence (g), and imperfect measures of intelligence (IQ). We can all talk about our LSAT score, right? If I would've said, I'm not retarded I got a 175, what would you say then? Well, I didn't take the real deal yet. I really hate people being hung-up about that crap. I used to tell people my SAT score when they asked. Now I'm turning into the kind of true d-bag who just says "I did well". I hate that... Shooting your mouth off about it? Yeah, that's d-baggish. Defending yourself against rude insults or answering someone's direct question? Most certainly not d-baggish.

And what do you mean that you can't believe I 'think like that' or whatever you said????? That I think having a high IQ is a good rebuttal to a claim that I'm a retard seems weird to you?

"Which of the following facts would most weaken thatguy◘'s contention that I'm retarded?"
A. I'm tall
B. I'm fat
C. I have a high IQ.

That answer was C. I gave the obvious response.

Generally, in life, the person who calls you RETARDED for a simple mistake is the douchebag. Not the guy who defends himself against such an accusation with sarcasm and a simple fact.

Thanks for the responses, anyhow; the people here are so helpful that they'll respond to someone they think is a douchebag! Very nice of you all!



^ retarded




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