Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

kilo21
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby kilo21 » Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:41 pm

1) What score did you get?
148 - Feb 2009
169 - Feb 2010
I'll talk about my studying for the Feb 2010 test, because clearly it was much more effective lol

2) What books did you use? (Kaplan, Powerscore LRB, Powerscore LGB, etc)
Powerscore LRB+LGB, Practice Tests #28-56

3) What prep courses did you take (if any)? Full length, weekend?
Self study. Courses are overpriced and ineffective.

4) How long did you study for, and under what conditions? (during school, during the summer, etc)
I studied about 1hr/day for November and December - I was working full time as a co-op (intern) student, so I worked through the bibles on my lunch hours.

5) How many preptests did you do?
28 total. 10 untimed, 18 timed

6) What would you change if you were to do it again?
Nothing.

7) Any other misc comments/suggestions.
It's really, really important to simulate testing conditions. I made sure to do my practice tests in the library in the nosier study carrels to make sure there was some sort of a distraction. It completely paid off when the proctor interrupted Section 2 to remind people not to flip back sections when the next section starts.

rod1224
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:27 am

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby rod1224 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:36 am

So I didn't do well at all... in my opinion (the actual score is irrelevant)

I didn't use Kaplan, I studied myself (pretty hard)

so I assume this time to take a Kaplan course... and tackle this puppy again in October

right?

User avatar
typ3
Posts: 1362
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:04 am

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby typ3 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:05 pm

You can get the same thing by taking a kaplan free test. Getting the print out, and then hitting the kaplan mastery book which has the lsat questions from pt's 1-48 organized by problem type. Do all the problems you have difficulty with, and you should improve a lot. It's what helped me in a few short weeks to get +10 on LR.

astrosag
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:26 pm

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby astrosag » Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:31 pm

First off, thanks for this awesome thread. The help has been tremendous and even inspiring. You all must have gotten into HLS or YLS :D

After long debating law school, I have decided to take the LSATs this June. Prior to this, I browsed through LSAT books and some prep material from Kaplan (friend's prep material) and overall, it doesn't seem bad. Maybe my engineering background helps.

After reading this thread, its obvious that a few things are a must in preparing for this test. However, I need some guidance/advice. Where and which prep/actual tests did you guys take? Basically everything off of the LSAC test prep store? Links would be awesome if you can find the time to hunt them down.

Right now I'm trying to hunt these old tests down as B&N and other bookstores have little other than Princeton Review and Kaplan books.

Again, thanks for everyone's input and good luck to those of you studying!

User avatar
madmartigan
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:55 pm

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby madmartigan » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:33 pm

Time to give back...

1) What score did you get?
168

2) What books did you use? Powerscore bibles.

3) What prep courses did you take (if any)? Full length, weekend?
self-taught.

4) How long did you study for, and under what conditions? (during school, during the summer, etc)
I studied about 2-5 hours per day, every day for about 6 months.

5) How many preptests did you do?
This was the most important aspect of my studies. I took every practice test available 2-3 times. Sometimes just doing them problem-by-problem, sometimes doing sections at a time, and doing a couple 5-section tests per week under testing conditions. But always time yourself; either per passage (RC), per game (LG), or per question (LR).

6) What would you change if you were to do it again?
Can’t really think of anything.

7) Any other misc comments/suggestions.
- Number one, stay calm. Everyone says it, because it’s true.
- Practice taking tests in B&N or in libraries and psyc yourself up like it’s the test, then work on staying calm.
- Unplug the tv; if you’re not doing LSAT prep then read a novel or preferably a magazine (New Yorker, some science mag, etc.).
- After you take a test, review the entire test slowly. Go over all the questions and ponder why each answer is right/wrong.
- Save a few tests, preferably recent tests, for benchmarks. I used the 8 most recent tests. I saved 4 for the weeks leading up to the test and used the rest periodically as benchmarks.
- Towards the end of my prep I tried taking sections in 30 minutes, and this really helped me.
- get a solid timer. I used a huge watch and made a platform for it so I didn't have to adjust my eyesight during the test. time management is huge. I divided the 35 mins into 4 sections and drew lines on my watch so I could gauge my time per passage/game.

4102011
Posts: 1724
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:00 pm

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby 4102011 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:43 am

1) What score did you get?
173

2) What books did you use? (Kaplan, Powerscore LRB, Powerscore LGB, etc)
I used the Powerscore Logic & LR Bibles, the LG workbook, the SuperPrep book, and the three books of ten practice LSATs.

3) What prep courses did you take (if any)? Full length, weekend?
None.

4) How long did you study for, and under what conditions? (during school, during the summer, etc)
I started doing some light studying around early November (took my first preptest the first week), and then would read the Bibles during the week with a practice test on Saturdays up until winter break. I'm a college student, so I had about a month off where I did a practice test every other day from December 27 up until the week before the Feb 6 LSAT, when I only did two. I took practice tests in my house with my dogs and family wandering around being loud, and I think that that definitely helped. I also tried to get my timing down so I would be okay on the real test. Also, every morning before I took a practice test I did a LG section to warm up my brain because I found that if I didn't do one beforehand, I often had timing difficulties with the real test. I did this the day before the real one, too.

5) How many preptests did you do?
I ended up doing 24 practice tests.

6) What would you change if you were to do it again?
I would try to be better about reviewing the questions I got right as well as wrong, and seeing where I had difficulties. I would have also done more full-length (5 sections + writing) tests, because having RC as my very last section was awful. Ugh.

7) Any other misc comments/suggestions.
On the day of the test, just relax and don't freak out. I set a goal of walking out of the test without feeling awful (for me, not finishing the LG sections), and that really let me relax. A lot of people brought books with them or photocopies to read beforehand, but I think that if you prepare beforehand you'll be fine. Also, make sure you read the rules about what to bring/not to bring because having to leave bags in the hallway made a lot of people stress out and not focus.

User avatar
TLS1776
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 3:23 am

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby TLS1776 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:00 pm

A recent chat with Miznitic, who went from a 141 in Feb. 2009 to a 179 in Feb 2010:
3:35:43 PM TLS1776: So when did you first look at the LSAT?
3:35:59 PM TLS1776: I saw that you had been PTing in the 170s prior to your Feb 2009 test; what happened? [Explanation: He ended up getting a 141.]
3:36:55 PM Miznitic: I only took two Preptests prior to that first LSAT attempt (February 2009) under comfortable conditions. Not at all realistic.
3:37:19 PM Miznitic: I figured since I took to that were high, I would be good and I wouldn't need to study. I got cocky.
3:37:23 PM TLS1776: Ah...
3:37:24 PM Miznitic: to = two
3:37:36 PM TLS1776: How comfortable is "comfortable"?
3:37:44 PM TLS1776: More than 45 mins per section?
3:37:57 PM TLS1776: That's a big gap
3:38:03 PM TLS1776: (141/175)
3:38:11 PM Miznitic: Cup of coffee, radio in the background, frequent "I
3:38:17 PM Miznitic: 'm bored breaks"
3:38:20 PM TLS1776: K
3:38:28 PM TLS1776: And was that in Jan 2009?
3:38:40 PM Miznitic: November 2008
3:38:44 PM TLS1776: Ah ok
3:39:11 PM Miznitic: Really poor prep. I did look at a couple LG tips and read a bit, but no real prep as I thought I had it in the bag.
3:39:17 PM TLS1776: Right
3:39:30 PM TLS1776: So what's the chronology from Feb 2009 to Feb 2010?
3:39:48 PM TLS1776: Did you use the Bibles and then start doing PTs, or start with PTs?
3:40:06 PM TLS1776: I started with the Bibles in March 2009 and didn't really start doing PTs until the fall
3:40:16 PM TLS1776: And only once every 2+ weeks.
3:40:22 PM TLS1776: Now I'm doing one every week.
3:40:32 PM TLS1776: And I'm trying to decide if I should go to one/day.
3:40:43 PM Miznitic: I started around June of 2009. I purchased pretty much everything from Amazon, bibles, preptests, etc.
3:41:12 PM Miznitic: pretty much bought everything (even) -- sorry, distracted at work.
3:41:57 PM Miznitic: From about june to ~ october I did an average of one game a night, review the correct answers/wrong answers, and then do maybe 5 LR problems.
3:43:46 PM Miznitic: During that period I would also do at least two full sections a day on the weekend and review everything. It was unnerving the amount of times I got the correct answer for the wrong reasons, so those needed to be reviewed until I fully understand exactly why.
3:44:46 PM Miznitic: During that period I would also do at least two full sections a day on the weekend and review everything. It was unnerving the amount of times I got the correct answer for the wrong reasons, so those needed to be reviewed until I fully understand exactly why.
3:45:07 PM Miznitic: I would also cycle between questions that I had looked at previously. After putting it down for a while and coming back to that same question a few weeks later and try it again.
3:46:07 PM Miznitic: I think if you were to do a preptest a day, you would expect less gains. Thats too much to digest/learn in a day.
3:46:43 PM TLS1776: Right, I'm worried about losing the drive that I have when I take the test once a week.
3:47:06 PM TLS1776: But I've also read about people who started taking PTs every day or every other day leading up to the test and did very well.
3:47:28 PM Miznitic: Take the full test (5 sections, exact conditions if possible) at least once a week. I recommend saturdays starting at 9:00am
3:47:33 PM TLS1776: Did your strategy change at all once you got closer to the exam date?
3:47:37 PM Miznitic: Yep.
3:48:26 PM Miznitic: I recycled more tests, and did at least two complete sections a day, followed by more review of correct/wrong answers.
3:48:46 PM TLS1776: So you never transitioned to doing more than one PT a week?
3:49:14 PM TLS1776: Also, how did you recycle tests?
3:49:35 PM TLS1776: I'm wondering if I should just buy new books or erase the ones I have.
3:49:59 PM Miznitic: Make copies of the blank score sheets.
3:50:43 PM Miznitic: I would take apart sections and rearrange them so that individual preptests weren't the same.
3:50:57 PM TLS1776: Wow, never heard of that before.
3:51:04 PM TLS1776: Good idea.
3:51:12 PM TLS1776: But how did you do that?
3:51:14 PM Miznitic: It worked. I didn't wan't to memorize individual tests.
3:51:26 PM TLS1776: Did you actually cut out the sections?
3:51:31 PM TLS1776: Or did you print them out?
3:51:39 PM Miznitic: Copy machine.
3:51:43 PM TLS1776: Ah.
3:51:45 PM TLS1776: Good idea.
3:51:53 PM Miznitic: My paper/toner bill was high though :)
3:52:37 PM Miznitic: I would occasionally do an extra preptest on Sundays, or on a weekday if I had time. That didn't happen too often though.
3:53:02 PM TLS1776: Did you go through all of the PTs before you started recycling?
3:55:18 PM Miznitic: Not really. I started retaking pretests sections that had given me problems and that I had found particularly difficult. I tried to master these as much as possible. I would also occasionally add a new section to an old section when doing this.
3:56:22 PM TLS1776: The problem I have with reviewing LR is that I will frequently remember the correct answer; how did you avoid this problem?
3:56:48 PM TLS1776: I have a big stack of LR problems that I've printed out, but I'm not sure of the best way to review them other than by mentally reviewing what I should have done to get the question right.
3:57:04 PM TLS1776: I can't tell if I'm making progress or just memorizing individual questions.
3:58:16 PM Miznitic: I would give myself a few weeks and recycle the question/section. Even if I did know the answer, I would go through the routine and make sure I was able to get the answer by working it out and proving that it was indeed the correct answer.
3:59:14 PM Miznitic: You have to be careful with that. You're not really supposed to just select the correct answer when you're preparing, you have go through the process used to GET to the correct answer. Thats the part I was really trying hone down.
3:59:22 PM TLS1776: Right.
3:59:34 PM TLS1776: That's what I try to do as well.
3:59:50 PM TLS1776: The problem for me is that I will remember the correct approach as soon as I see the stimulus.
3:59:53 PM Miznitic: It's an excellent strategy.
4:00:17 PM TLS1776: And I wonder if I would be able to do the same thing if presented with a stimulus for which the correct approach was not obvious
4:00:50 PM Miznitic: Thats not necessarily bad either. After going through hundreds of questions, you'll begin to notice a trend. Certain questions "feel" like those you did just yesterday, and you'll quickly know how to work through them.
4:01:14 PM TLS1776: A lot of the LR questions I get wrong require a single insight, so that I feel like they're one-shot deals: once you know the "trick", the question is never as hard again.
4:01:44 PM Miznitic: They reuse those same tricks frequently though.
4:02:30 PM Miznitic: It's like a math problem. You learn how to do it when it is in one form, then come test day you have a mutation of that form that you need to figure out. Same applies to all three sections.
4:02:46 PM TLS1776: Right.
4:03:01 PM Miznitic: three types, even.
4:03:06 PM TLS1776: Did you take any notes when doing RC?
4:03:35 PM TLS1776: I started using Voyager's system (lots of notes), and then found that I did even better by taking no notes at all, but reading very slowly.
4:04:23 PM Miznitic: Kinda, at the end where I would right maybe a sentence or two that VERY briefly summarized what I just read.
4:04:55 PM Miznitic: I would underline critical sections and use a simple notation to designate change in speaker, conclusions, etc.
4:05:03 PM Miznitic: right = write
4:05:06 PM Miznitic: wow. MY brain is dead todya.
4:05:08 PM Miznitic: today.
4:05:29 PM TLS1776: I'd like to ask you about how you'd approach a particular LR Q
4:05:38 PM TLS1776: I know why the right answer is right
4:05:52 PM TLS1776: But I don't know how I would avoid getting something like it wrong in the future
4:06:02 PM TLS1776: [CENSORED: PT 54, Section 4, Question 20]
4:06:21 PM Miznitic: You know, I haven't touched a single lsat item since 2/5.
4:06:42 PM TLS1776: Then don't worry about it
4:07:20 PM TLS1776: Hmm...
4:07:28 PM TLS1776: Did you find recent PTs more difficult than older PTs?
4:07:38 PM TLS1776: Did you do every released PT?
4:09:26 PM Miznitic: I was trying to, but I ran out of time before the test. I was working on questions up until the night before the test.
4:10:13 PM Miznitic: Contrary to popular wisdom, I didn't get a FULL night's rest. I went to bed around 11pm.
4:10:23 PM TLS1776: When did you get up?
4:11:03 PM Miznitic: I got up at 6:30am. Had a light breakfast. Orange Juice/Banana.
4:11:32 PM Miznitic: The two and a half months before hand, I did the same thing though.
4:11:41 PM TLS1776: Oh, I don't want to forget to ask this: What score were you expecting? Had you been tracking your PT scores?
4:11:45 PM Miznitic: one moment.
4:15:41 PM Miznitic: I had been averaging about 176-178 on new PT's, so I was thinking in real life conditions I might get a 172-175.
4:16:00 PM TLS1776: Any idea why you may have performed better?
4:16:21 PM TLS1776: I've seen a few people do it, but I can't understand why it would happen.
4:17:03 PM TLS1776: Also, were you saving your new PTs for your Saturday tests?
4:17:18 PM Miznitic: When I took the test, I wasn't all that "anxious" -- one moment. Work stuff.
4:17:22 PM TLS1776: K
4:21:02 PM Miznitic: When I took the test, if felt very similiar to my same "home" practice. I was able to finish most everything within my time limits. I wasn't in the "zone" as I wasn't exactly comfortable with the LG section.
4:22:18 PM Miznitic: The Comprehension section was benigh, and the LRs weren't difficult.
4:22:36 PM Miznitic: benign. The LG though did kinda frustrate me due to the time issue.
4:22:55 PM TLS1776: Let me see if I have an accurate image of your prep:
4:23:01 PM TLS1776: You would take two sections a day.
4:23:13 PM TLS1776: A test on Saturday at 9am, occasionally another full PT during the week.
4:23:28 PM TLS1776: You would wait a few weeks before recycling old sections
4:23:35 PM TLS1776: Hmm...
4:23:45 PM TLS1776: You said that you recombined sections to make new PTs.
4:23:58 PM TLS1776: But also that you were averaging 176-178 on new PTs
4:24:16 PM TLS1776: Approx. how many of each kind of test do you think you took?
4:24:39 PM TLS1776: Did you rotate, new PT on one Saturday, a recycled PT on another?
4:26:54 PM Miznitic: I think I did at least 25-27 of the prep tests in total as they were originally. With the multiple combinations and changing sections to with other sections, maybe double that per amount of test. Sundays were used as well on occasion as well.
4:27:44 PM Miznitic: Make sense?
4:28:07 PM TLS1776: Let me repeat it back in different words to double-check I've got it.
4:29:27 PM TLS1776: On 25-27 different occasions you took a full new PT (+ experimental I imagine). I'm not sure what the second sentence means, exactly; does it mean that you recombined sections and then took a full recombined PT on 50 different occasions?
4:29:49 PM Miznitic: Yes.
4:29:54 PM TLS1776: Wow
4:30:13 PM TLS1776: Did you keep track of all of this?
4:30:17 PM TLS1776: Do you have an excel sheet?
4:31:22 PM Miznitic: Unfortunately not. Everything was done AT the moment. I would put the pieces together the night before based on what I knew I remembered, what was fuzzy, or what I knew I had difficult with previously.
4:31:51 PM Miznitic: My wife complained frequently about the state of my office. Papers were stacked, everywhere, and books were strewn about the floor.
4:32:28 PM TLS1776: 75 full PTs averages out to around 3 a week if you took them all over the period of 6 months. So were you following this weekly PT schedule for a full year?
4:32:44 PM TLS1776: That would average something like 1.5 PTs a week
4:32:52 PM TLS1776: not including the daily 2 sections
4:32:58 PM Miznitic: About the middle of june to the night before the test.
4:33:04 PM TLS1776: Wow.
4:33:12 PM TLS1776: I suddenly feel like I'm behind schedule.
4:33:32 PM Miznitic: They weren't always full tests though. The number of COMPLETE tests I did is probably closer to ~ 30.
4:33:43 PM TLS1776: Wait, so what does "full test" mean?
4:33:48 PM Miznitic: 5 sections.
4:33:55 PM TLS1776: And what does "complete test" mean?
4:34:05 PM Miznitic: same thing.
4:34:16 PM TLS1776: Now I'm confused
4:35:34 PM Miznitic: Throughout the week I would work on individual sections. Maybe 2 a night, on occasion I MIGHT do a full/complete test during the week. On saturdays, I -always- did a full/complete test.
4:35:53 PM TLS1776: From June until February.
4:36:34 PM Miznitic: for the indidual sections. Yes. The saturday stuff started later.
4:37:00 PM TLS1776: When?
4:37:20 PM TLS1776: Whatever, this isn't that important.
4:37:32 PM TLS1776: Bottom line is that you put a lot of time into it.
4:37:38 PM Miznitic: Around october, religiously in November.
4:37:39 PM TLS1776: Recycled sections, etc.
4:38:05 PM TLS1776: I wish there was some way to get more information about the way you approached questions.
4:38:19 PM TLS1776: Everyone I talk to says, "It'll come with time"
4:38:36 PM TLS1776: Were you ever able to articulate a specific change that you made?
4:38:49 PM Miznitic: Apporaching questions? Follow the bible approach religiously at first. Then you'll develop your own feel.
4:38:56 PM TLS1776: Right
4:39:00 PM Miznitic: What sort of specific change?
4:39:27 PM TLS1776: For example, I was able to get a -0 on RC on my last PT (52) because I discovered that I had not been absorbing the passages enough.
4:40:04 PM TLS1776: I studied my previous PT (54) and saw that the wrong ACs were so hard to double-check against the passage (by scanning, as Voyager would have you do it) that it was a horrible way to find the right answer
4:40:37 PM TLS1776: A far better way is to visualize everything in the passage so that you have it in your memory, and then look for ACs that ring a bell as correct.
4:40:47 PM TLS1776: At least that's how I articulated the change.
4:41:24 PM TLS1776: I'm currently trying to figure out how to do the same thing with LR
4:41:42 PM TLS1776: I bombed 52's LR (-8) because I would dismiss the right answer as a trick
4:41:52 PM TLS1776: or misunderstand what the stimulus was saying
4:42:01 PM TLS1776: I guess I should just read more carefully
4:42:21 PM TLS1776: I think if I apply my RC approach to LR then I might be able to fix things
4:43:06 PM TLS1776: But I was also hoping I could get some kind of special insight into how you might have changed your approach to a particularly difficult question type
4:43:11 PM TLS1776: or something like that
4:44:50 PM Miznitic: I'll have to finish this later. Boss/Breathing down my neck suddenly. *gah* I'll be happy when I don't have to work in this sort of capacity again.
4:44:59 PM TLS1776: Yeah, thanks a lot for your help.
4:45:05 PM TLS1776: And congratulations again

SBimmer
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:27 pm

Re: LSAT Studying Advice

Postby SBimmer » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:56 pm

Ken wrote:1) 173

2) Princeton Review books and the real LSATs.

Simply the best source for taking and learning about the LSAT is to get as many real sample LSATs as you can. While other companies may seek to recreate the LSAT, they do not have the benefit of the experimental section which is utilized to weed out bad questions on the real LSATs. Order as many real LSATs booklets as you can. Try to learn from your mistakes by reviewing your errors.

The Powerscore books came out after I took the LSAT, but I have heard that they are excellent.

3) I taught the LSAT and GRE for Princeton Review. They needed a new LSAT instructor and they hired me based solely on my initial diagnostic. Thus, I was able to teach myself for free while teaching others.

While in my unbiased opinion, my classes were excellent, their effectiveness heavily varied by the quality of the instructor. Ask to sit in on 1 or 2 classes of all the test prep companies you are considering (they generally will let you in and there is certainly nothing to lose by asking). Evaluate whether the instructor is a great instructor or not and ask other students after the class if they are learning from the class and materials.

I recommend considering several test prep companies if possible. I have heard that Testmasters is one of the best test prep companies out there. (http://www.testmasters180.com). Note that I get no benefit from recommending them.

4) I studied the LSAT for an entire summer. I simply told my parents that how I fared on the LSAT was more important or as important as my four years of college. Thus, it was essential that I have the time to properly prepare myself. I was somewhat rewarded, going from a 167 to a 173. While not everyone will have such indulgent parents, try to make the time to seriously focus upon preparing for the LSAT. Few things in your life will have more of an impact and this is time well spent.

5) I took over 40 prep tests. When I took the LSAT there were a lot fewer prep tests out there. Now I would likely take as many as I possibly could and not take any of the quasi ones Princeton Review and others have created.

6) Take more real prep tests. Study my mistakes more instead of just continually taking the quasi LSAT tests Princeton Review created. Now that more prep tests are available, I would focus solely on the real tests.

I would buy and learn from the Powerscore books. They seem designed for those who want to score in the upper echelon.

7) Any other misc comments/suggestions.

The LSAT is FUN!!! I am not kidding, but I really enjoyed the months I spent studying for the LSAT. I felt that by learning to master the test I was becoming more intelligent. It is the best standardized test out there and to become great at the logic games and argument sections will make you a better lawyer and smarter person. View it all as a game. Similar to a very complicated crossword puzzle. The excitement I had for studying allowed me to study for hours and resulted in my score.

Take a logical reasoning course while in college. It will likely be titled "Introduction to Critical Thinking" or with a similar title. This will greatly assist you in diagraming, which is essential to succeeding on the games section.

Speed is the name of the game. I had many students complain that if they had all day they could get every answer right, but because of the time constraints they had problems. Practice under rigid time limits to get your pacing down. If you are stuck on one problem and it is just one problem (not part of a many question game), just make your best guess and move on.

Guessing wisely. It is not so much about finding the right answer as eliminating the wrong ones. Try to quickly eliminate 3 of the choices and then hone in on which of the 2 is correct.

Find a personal system that works for you. While you can learn how to diagram from your LSAT course, also utilize symbols that work well for yourself. No one else has to understand your diagrams, just you.

Save time whenever possible. I used to first complete the entire section and only then fill in the bubbles in the answer sheet. I felt that by not having to go from the test booklet to the scantron for each question saved me a lot of time. You could do this on a smaller process and just fill in after completing each large section or page. Note there is a risk here that time could run out without your having filled in all the bubbles, so have your time management down before utilizing this tip.

Cancelling your score is not the end of the world. First, avoid cancelling if you can. There will be a natural tendency to think that you did worst that you actually did. And to put yourself through the torture of 3 more months of LSAT prep plus possibly delaying your applications is not a fun thing to do. That being said, if something occurred during the test that you not would not be repeated and if you really feel like you bombed, cancelling may be the best route. While multiple LSAT scores are averaged by most law schools, a cancelled score is viewed as a slight negative but will not bring your average score down. Cancelling is only an option to implement after much decision and perhaps consulting with others.

Do not panic during the test. I probably lost a few points because I panicked when I got an experimental games section that was harder than anything I had ever seen before. I kept on thinking back to that games section during the test and it was not until the last section, which was another games section, that I realized the first one was the experimental section. Just relax and be confident during the test. Mistakes happen. I missed 8 questions and still did amazingly well. You can miss 20 and still have an excellent score. The LSAT is a forgiving test, trust in your abilities while taking it.

Get a good nights rest the night before. I was sharing a hotel room with a fraternity brother (there is no way I could get a good night's sleep on a Friday night at the Fraternity house) and his idiotic girlfriend calls at 1 am from Germany wishing him good luck. I barely slept after that. Paying for my own hotel room would have been a good investment. Most students will not need to rent a hotel room if they live in a quiet area.

Relax the day before the test. When you wake up the morning of the test tackle a few problems to get in the mindset.

View where you will be taking the test ahead of time so there is no rushing around trying to find the lecture hall. Get there in plenty of time. Do not let others stress levels be contagious. You are primed and ready for battle after doing all of the above.

Definitely take a prep class as for most it is money well spent, but I do wish it were cheaper.


Overall, study hard but enjoy your time studying. This will be the most effective time you spend for how you fare on the LSAT is as important as your 4-5 years in college.

sharpnsmooth
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:41 pm

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby sharpnsmooth » Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:43 pm

indy wrote:Note from Ken - I found this thread to be full of excellent advice from those who did amazingly well (a few 180's in here and may 170+) and I hope it will benefit you in your LSAT studies. Please add your advice now or after you take the LSAT. Also, for those looking for a discount on LSAT Prep, I negotiated $100 off from Princeton Review LSAT classes at http://www.top-law-schools.com/prlsat.html.

I'm writing to inquire of the methods/techniques ppl who scored 160+ used to get the score they did.

1) What score did you get? 178

2) What books did you use? (Kaplan, Powerscore LRB, Powerscore LGB, etc) Kaplan & Powerscore

3) What prep courses did you take (if any)? Full length, weekend? None

4) How long did you study for, and under what conditions? (during school, during the summer, etc) 6 months, 3 hours a day no matter what.

5) How many preptests did you do? Almost all available except the hard ones to find... probably about 50 twice each.



6) What would you change if you were to do it again? Contemplated jumping off a cliff less while waiting for my score.

7) Any other misc comments/suggestions. Do every prep test. If you are getting around a 160, you can study on your own and see why you are getting things incorrect. Study reading comprehension A LOT. a lot of people assume they're good at it, and all the courses seem to treat it as the least important but you can get 28/28 or 27/27 here if you prepare as much as people prepare for logic games.

Thanks,
Indy

sharpnsmooth
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:41 pm

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby sharpnsmooth » Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:49 pm

oh, and if you can buy the course books. people sell them all over ebay. if you buy the lesson books, you can basically give yourself the lessons and get everything you'd get in the classroom without having to go at a slower student's pace and paying the tuition.

stress, as was mentioned on here many times, is absolutely huge. i went to my test center twice the week of to take practice tests. the first time, i scored a 164 which was 14 points down from my real score a week later and the lowest I had gotten since my second prep test. just sitting there once, however, systematically desensitized me to the environment.

also, work out if you can leading up to the test. you want to be very comfortable in your posture sitting there for 3 1/2 hours.

i also got a professional massage the day of the test. this was a great move.

i don't know if everybody had this option, but if you get laid by a steady partner the day before the test. this eased my mind, and made me confident going in. make sure absolutely no interpersonal situations of any kind arise the week of.

if your test center permits situations, take advantage of it. if they call time, and you have 2 questions left which you know could be done in one minute combined and they are distracted... take advantage of it.

Shrimps
Posts: 271
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:04 pm

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby Shrimps » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:26 pm

Sex just before the test: yes or no?

lsatgenius
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:13 am

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby lsatgenius » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:24 am

sharpnsmooth wrote:oh, and if you can buy the course books. people sell them all over ebay. if you buy the lesson books, you can basically give yourself the lessons and get everything you'd get in the classroom without having to go at a slower student's pace and paying the tuition.


From what I've seen of course books, they are pretty useless. They just have a lot of blank spaces because you are supposed to take notes on what they say in class. I think they purposely do this to make you go to class.

sharpnsmooth wrote:i also got a professional massage the day of the test. this was a great move.


Good idea. I think I'm going to do this.

sharpnsmooth
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:41 pm

Re:

Postby sharpnsmooth » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:41 pm

NoaNoa wrote:Hello everyone, could some of you 160+ people be so kind as to explain this question to me.

If violations of any of a society's explicit rules routinely go unpunished, then that society's people will be left without moral guidance. Because people who lack moral guidance will act in many different ways, chaos results. Thus, a society ought never to allow any of its explicit rules to be broken with impunity.

The reasoning in the argument is most vulnerable to criticism on the grounds that the argument:

A- takes for granted that a society will avoid chaos as long as none of its explicit rules are routinely violated with impunity

B- fails to consider that the violated rules might have been made to prevent problems that would not arise even if the rules were removed

C- infers, from the claim that the violation of some particular rules will lead to chaos, that the violation of any rule will lead to chaos

D- confuses the routine nonpunishment of violations of a rule with sometimes not punishing violations of the rule

E- takes for granted that all of society's explicit rules result in equally serious consequences when broken

I see how going from the first assertion "If violations of any of a society's explicit rules routinely go unpunished" to "Thus, a society ought never to allow any of its explicit rules to be broken with impunity" seems a leap, but I initially chose C. The correct answer is D... Any comments/help is appreciated.
Thanks


You're not allowed to post questions on here like that unless the forum has an agreement with LSAC, which I don't understand why they would.

But:

The evidence says if they are routinely broken and not punished, there'll be no morals which somehow will lead to chaos. In other words, if there's no chaos, the rules are not routinely broken without punishment -- right?

From here, their conclusion is the government ought to NEVER let their rules be broken with impunity (i.e. not punished in classic overly confusing LSAT language).

Does routinely = always??? too extreme!!! If you routinely binge eat, you will be fat. If you binge eat once, you can still have those 6-pack abs that drive them ho's crazy.

So that is the flaw. The never is unwarranted. Had they said "never FREQUENTLY," all would be kosher.

The reason it isn't C is because it never says the routine violation of SPECIFIC rules... just rules in general. In fact, if the same rule is routinely broken, according to this evidence, breaking any rule consistently will lead to chaos. C is not the right answer, not because that would not be a flaw, but because that is not what the argument is doing. It's never talking about specific rules... just rules in general.

This is a bad question, though, because rules are dumb.

sharpnsmooth
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:41 pm

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby sharpnsmooth » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:48 pm

lsatgenius wrote:
sharpnsmooth wrote:oh, and if you can buy the course books. people sell them all over ebay. if you buy the lesson books, you can basically give yourself the lessons and get everything you'd get in the classroom without having to go at a slower student's pace and paying the tuition.


From what I've seen of course books, they are pretty useless. They just have a lot of blank spaces because you are supposed to take notes on what they say in class. I think they purposely do this to make you go to class.

sharpnsmooth wrote:i also got a professional massage the day of the test. this was a great move.


Good idea. I think I'm going to do this.


It's true. You really have to already be in the high 150s to be able to make use of it, because you need to understand what they are doing.

sharpnsmooth
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:41 pm

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby sharpnsmooth » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:48 pm

Shrimps wrote:Sex just before the test: yes or no?


depends.

sex with your needy ex girlfriend? no.

sex with a stable partner who really cares about you and how you perform (on the test, silly): yes.

sharpnsmooth
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:41 pm

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby sharpnsmooth » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:50 pm

dovetail wrote:
gltm wrote:
CardinalRules wrote:I posted general comments in this thread a few pages ago, but I'm available by PM if you have more specific questions. Although I can't guarantee an immediate response, I can guarantee a thorough one.

(I scored a 178, 98 out of 101 correct. My mistakes were 1 reading comprehension, 2 analytical reasoning, 0 logic games.)


How is that possible? AR = LG.


Obviously, he meant Logical Reasoning. Give him a break.


yeah, the names are dumb anyway. they're just invented by the test prep companies so they can patent something.

User avatar
Gemini
Posts: 1943
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:23 pm

Re: Re:

Postby Gemini » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:00 pm

sharpnsmooth wrote:
NoaNoa wrote:Hello everyone, could some of you 160+ people be so kind as to explain this question to me.

If violations of any of a society's explicit rules routinely go unpunished, then that society's people will be left without moral guidance. Because people who lack moral guidance will act in many different ways, chaos results. Thus, a society ought never to allow any of its explicit rules to be broken with impunity.

The reasoning in the argument is most vulnerable to criticism on the grounds that the argument:

A- takes for granted that a society will avoid chaos as long as none of its explicit rules are routinely violated with impunity

B- fails to consider that the violated rules might have been made to prevent problems that would not arise even if the rules were removed

C- infers, from the claim that the violation of some particular rules will lead to chaos, that the violation of any rule will lead to chaos

D- confuses the routine nonpunishment of violations of a rule with sometimes not punishing violations of the rule

E- takes for granted that all of society's explicit rules result in equally serious consequences when broken

I see how going from the first assertion "If violations of any of a society's explicit rules routinely go unpunished" to "Thus, a society ought never to allow any of its explicit rules to be broken with impunity" seems a leap, but I initially chose C. The correct answer is D... Any comments/help is appreciated.
Thanks


You're not allowed to post questions on here like that unless the forum has an agreement with LSAC, which I don't understand why they would.

But:

The evidence says if they are routinely broken and not punished, there'll be no morals which somehow will lead to chaos. In other words, if there's no chaos, the rules are not routinely broken without punishment -- right?

From here, their conclusion is the government ought to NEVER let their rules be broken with impunity (i.e. not punished in classic overly confusing LSAT language).

Does routinely = always??? too extreme!!! If you routinely binge eat, you will be fat. If you binge eat once, you can still have those 6-pack abs that drive them ho's crazy.

So that is the flaw. The never is unwarranted. Had they said "never FREQUENTLY," all would be kosher.

The reason it isn't C is because it never says the routine violation of SPECIFIC rules... just rules in general. In fact, if the same rule is routinely broken, according to this evidence, breaking any rule consistently will lead to chaos. C is not the right answer, not because that would not be a flaw, but because that is not what the argument is doing. It's never talking about specific rules... just rules in general.

This is a bad question, though, because rules are dumb.


What I don't get is why it's not A...

sharpnsmooth
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:41 pm

Re: Re:

Postby sharpnsmooth » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:09 pm

Gemini Hopeful wrote:
sharpnsmooth wrote:
NoaNoa wrote:Hello everyone, could some of you 160+ people be so kind as to explain this question to me.

If violations of any of a society's explicit rules routinely go unpunished, then that society's people will be left without moral guidance. Because people who lack moral guidance will act in many different ways, chaos results. Thus, a society ought never to allow any of its explicit rules to be broken with impunity.

The reasoning in the argument is most vulnerable to criticism on the grounds that the argument:

A- takes for granted that a society will avoid chaos as long as none of its explicit rules are routinely violated with impunity

B- fails to consider that the violated rules might have been made to prevent problems that would not arise even if the rules were removed

C- infers, from the claim that the violation of some particular rules will lead to chaos, that the violation of any rule will lead to chaos

D- confuses the routine nonpunishment of violations of a rule with sometimes not punishing violations of the rule

E- takes for granted that all of society's explicit rules result in equally serious consequences when broken

I see how going from the first assertion "If violations of any of a society's explicit rules routinely go unpunished" to "Thus, a society ought never to allow any of its explicit rules to be broken with impunity" seems a leap, but I initially chose C. The correct answer is D... Any comments/help is appreciated.
Thanks


You're not allowed to post questions on here like that unless the forum has an agreement with LSAC, which I don't understand why they would.

But:

The evidence says if they are routinely broken and not punished, there'll be no morals which somehow will lead to chaos. In other words, if there's no chaos, the rules are not routinely broken without punishment -- right?

From here, their conclusion is the government ought to NEVER let their rules be broken with impunity (i.e. not punished in classic overly confusing LSAT language).

Does routinely = always??? too extreme!!! If you routinely binge eat, you will be fat. If you binge eat once, you can still have those 6-pack abs that drive them ho's crazy.

So that is the flaw. The never is unwarranted. Had they said "never FREQUENTLY," all would be kosher.

The reason it isn't C is because it never says the routine violation of SPECIFIC rules... just rules in general. In fact, if the same rule is routinely broken, according to this evidence, breaking any rule consistently will lead to chaos. C is not the right answer, not because that would not be a flaw, but because that is not what the argument is doing. It's never talking about specific rules... just rules in general.

This is a bad question, though, because rules are dumb.


What I don't get is why it's not A...


The reason it isn't A is because the argument never presumes that never breaking its rules will stop the society from going into chaos. All it assumes is that if one of its rules are ever broken without punishment -- the society will go into chaos. We do not know anything about whether it can still go into chaos if it punishes rule breakers, and the argument shares no opinion about this.

jhlaw12
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:55 am

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby jhlaw12 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:02 am

Hi,

I was reviewing some of the tips on this board, and came across one back in 2007 (on page 4 of this thread) that says:

7.) Miscellaneous comments:

- I don't diagram rules and inferences on games. I use hypos on grouping, ordering, and assignment games.

Anyone have an idea of what they mean by "hypos"?

Thanks!

sharpnsmooth
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:41 pm

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby sharpnsmooth » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:32 pm

jhlaw12 wrote:Hi,

I was reviewing some of the tips on this board, and came across one back in 2007 (on page 4 of this thread) that says:

7.) Miscellaneous comments:

- I don't diagram rules and inferences on games. I use hypos on grouping, ordering, and assignment games.

Anyone have an idea of what they mean by "hypos"?

Thanks!


I have no idea, but I don't think this is the most effective way to do a sketch. The entire point of the sketch is that once you see it, the inferences can come to you and you'll plug them in. Without inferences, there's no reason to do a sketch.

Shrimps
Posts: 271
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:04 pm

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby Shrimps » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:35 pm

People with excellent working memories can probably juggle all the rules in their head without the need for written set-ups. I wish I had a brain like that. Sort of like a chess grand master playing 20 games at the same time blindfolded.

sharpnsmooth
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:41 pm

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby sharpnsmooth » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:10 pm

Shrimps wrote:People with excellent working memories can probably juggle all the rules in their head without the need for written set-ups. I wish I had a brain like that. Sort of like a chess grand master playing 20 games at the same time blindfolded.


I almost got a 180. I can't come close to doing that, nor do I know any normal people who can. And one thing about the LSAT is that you have to be able to think rationally.

Yes, I equated being normal with thinking rationally. Argumentative flaw blah blah blah.

User avatar
TLS1776
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 3:23 am

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby TLS1776 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:51 pm

jhlaw12 wrote:Hi,

I was reviewing some of the tips on this board, and came across one back in 2007 (on page 4 of this thread) that says:

7.) Miscellaneous comments:

- I don't diagram rules and inferences on games. I use hypos on grouping, ordering, and assignment games.

Anyone have an idea of what they mean by "hypos"?

Thanks!

"Hypo" = "Hypothetical". It's when you use the rules to create a possible situation that satisfies the requirements of the particular question you're working on. Go through the Logic Games section of "Master the LSAT" to see an approach to solving games that relies heavily on hypos. This method is in contrast to what Powerscore advises, which is to try to create a "master diagram" (after seeing the rules but before looking at the questions) that contains as many inferences as can be determined using the rules. See the Powerscore Logic Games Bible for examples of a non-hypo approach.

Personally, I've experimented with both methods and find a middle-approach to be the most useful (i.e. sometimes creating a master diagram and sometimes relying on hypos).

User avatar
Gemini
Posts: 1943
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:23 pm

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby Gemini » Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:19 pm

For me, hypos on the LG section are DANGEROUS.

I can spend too much time on them and eventually my scrap paper is scribbled with hypos and perhaps in a later question, i might've been able to use one, but I wouldn't remember WHICH hypo it is that could be used. Panic would ensue, and voila... more wrong answers.

I need to find a way to minimize doing hypos on the exam...

wren
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:44 am

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby wren » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:49 am

Everyone seems to say they did lots of preptests for practice. At this point I am partway through LG bible advanced linear (chap 2) and I have no clue on any other type of LG problem. Is it pointless to be doing timed full lsats before I finish getting through the bible and have some clue re: games? anyone else have this problem? Thanks!




Return to “LSAT Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alexandros, Baidu [Spider], Instrumental, malysh, StopLawying, SunDevil14 and 10 guests