Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

User avatar
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:12 pm

Postby idrinkcoffee » Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:30 pm

Last edited by idrinkcoffee on Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:57 pm

Postby rucoach » Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:55 pm

1) What score did you get? 180

2) What books did you use? Both Powerscore Bibles and Princeton Review's LSAT Workout

3) Prepcourses? None

4) How long did you study for, under what conditions? 3 months, but not too much in the last month because of work. 6-8 hours per week, a little less the month before the test. I try to study in quiet areas and always in timed conditions.

5) How many preptests? 18

6) What would I change? I would travel in a time machine and beat my undergrad self for shackling me to a 2.94 GPA.

7) Comments? Go through the tests after you are done. Figure out why your right answers are right and wrong answers are wrong. I would do every choice of every LG question to see why they were right or wrong. Practice doing whole tests under timed conditions. Eat well on test morning, drink juice or water (no coffee), and get in a rhythm on tests. I was taking a test every 4 days (spending the 3 days in between to fix whatever section posed the most problem) by the end, so the real one just felt like part of that routine.

User avatar
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:29 pm

Postby rabbit9198 » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:01 am

1) What score did you get?

176 (September 07)

2) What books did you use? (Kaplan, Powerscore LRB, Powerscore LGB, etc)

PowerScore's full-length class books and teacher books (one of my roommates is a PS teacher)

3) What prep courses did you take (if any)? Full length, weekend?

None - why would I pay to take a class when I have a private tutor living upstairs, who will help me if I give him some cookies? :wink:

4) How long did you study for, and under what conditions? (during school, during the summer, etc)

"Started" over the summer (after graduating, pre-job starting), casually reading some books. Really started getting serious beginning-mid August. REALLY got serious beginning of September.

I would do two sections during lunch at work (shortened time length, in an abandoned cubicle), another section on the bus on the way home (shortened time, plus lots of distractions), and a few sections when I got home (rumbling stomach and eight roommates as a distraction).

5) How many preptests did you do?

No idea - I'd say including full tests and single sections, maybe twenty?

6) What would you change if you were to do it again?

I'd prep more for games; I ran out of study time, and didn't get to the last few PS lessons. I got lucky on the test, I think, with a few correct guesses; having games the first section really threw me off...I should have done a bunch more games sections to feel more comfortable going in.

7) Any other misc comments/suggestions.

Good luck!

User avatar
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:21 pm

Postby babs22pa » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:09 pm

1) What score did you get?


2) What books did you use? (Kaplan, Powerscore LRB, Powerscore LGB, etc)

I did LSAC's and Kaplan's practice tests and the full logic games book. I got additional games from LSAC and from the internet.

3) What prep courses did you take (if any)? Full length, weekend?

None. Studied on my own.

4) How long did you study for, and under what conditions? (during school, during the summer, etc)

I did not study much for the logical reasoning or reading comp (only did practice tests). I did two logic games every morning for two months before work at Peets Coffee or at the library. I went from being able to finish only half the section to finishing and missing only 2 on the test.

5) How many preptests did you do?

I did about 15 practice tests out of the book.

6) What would you change if you were to do it again?

Practice bubbling. Maybe take a couple more practice tests under simulated conditions (my practice tests were averaging 178, so I did significantly worse on the test itself).

7) Any other misc comments/suggestions.

Just keep doing those logic games. The more you do the easier and faster they get.

User avatar
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:39 pm

Postby carrickflynn » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:19 pm

1) What score did you get?


2) What books did you use? (Kaplan, Powerscore LRB, Powerscore LGB, etc)

I flipped through a ton. The only one I'd recommend strongly though is the Curvebreakers Games book.

3) What prep courses did you take (if any)? Full length, weekend?


4) How long did you study for, and under what conditions? (during school, during the summer, etc)

On and off for a few months. The 6 weeks before the test I had a break from school and so I studied like it was a full time job.

5) How many preptests did you do?


6) What would you change if you were to do it again?

I would break more often. I noticed that after binge-studying for a few days I always had the biggest jumps after a day or two of slacking. I would also spend more time on games.

7) Any other misc comments/suggestions.

Make sure you are on an 8AM schedule for two weeks before the test, sleep a lot and eat well. Don't time yourself on games sections!!! When I stopped timing myself (during games practice) my overall preptest scores jumped ten points! I went from missing 10+ games questions to missing 2-0.

The main thing is to prioritize this in proportion to how schools prioritize it. If it is more valuable than your GPA think about how much time it deserves!

User avatar
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:47 am

Postby williambrianlondon » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:20 pm

Curvebreakers was a piece of shiiiiiiyat

Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:08 pm

Postby canttell » Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:43 pm

1) What score did you get? 170

2) What books did you use? (Powerscore LRB, Powerscore LGB)

3) What prep courses did you take (if any)? None

4) How long did you study for, and under what conditions? Started studying about 3 weeks before the test, while working full time. I took the week right before the test off of work and studied 24/7

5) How many preptests did you do? 10+ full length

6) What would you change if you were to do it again? Start studying sooner, and spend more time on Logic Games (5 of my 10 missed were in that section)

7. P.S. everyone should use the Powerscore books, read them 2x and do all the practice. They are fantastic

Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:50 am

Postby lsatconfusion » Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:03 am

Very simple advice


seriously....I feel I would have been far better off both during my prep and the actual test if I read more, just for fun

User avatar
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:03 pm

Postby Aristotelian » Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:07 pm

blueprint - 167

i see so many ppl hitting 170+ without prep classes and im beginning to wonder if such courses are worth taking.

User avatar
Tempus Fugit
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:24 pm

Postby Tempus Fugit » Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:31 am

Most prep classes aren't worth it for people who are already scoring 160+. Almost all prep classes are designed for the masses, so they are more geared to people scoring in the 140-160 range than above 160. If you are already in the mid-160s, I would recommend you consider private tutoring over a prep class.

Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:20 am

Postby dragpo » Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:47 am

One simple tip: When you have to guess, choose D!

I got 163 and 88th Percentile on the December test. I did great in the two LR sections, stellar in the LG (-2, silly mistakes), but was killed by the brutal RC. I only had time for 3 of 4 RC sections, which was never the case in practice tests, and I guessed in error on all the guesses I made. I chose Bs on the 3rd (comparative) reading section because there were so few Bs in the 3 sections I had time to complete. I should have stuck with my usual Powerscore "choose D" methodology as it would have actually resulted in 2 more raw pints and a higher score! A note for you who are yet to write.

User avatar
Posts: 192
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:47 pm

Postby Haribo » Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:55 pm

Yay I've always wanted to post in this thread, and now I can!

1) What score did you get? 180

2) What books did you use?
LSAC practice exams (obviously recommended)
Kaplan 180 (not recommended)
Kaplan Games guide (I used this mostly for distracting myself from doing another set of boring LR/RC questions, because I really like the games. It didn't help me much as I never had problems with games, but their diagramming suggestions for sequencing games are excellent.)

3) What prep courses did you take (if any)? Full length, weekend? None.

4) How long did you study for, and under what conditions?
I took my first diagnostic in early September, and had a 175. At this point my biggest concern was my score not dropping :) I studied on and off, probably between 2 and 8 hours a week, until 2 weeks before the test when I got scared and did approximately 1 full practice test every 2 days. At this point my score still was pretty inconsistent, and I could miss up to 4 in pretty much any section except games.

I ended up reading Voyager's guide to RC about 4 days before the test, and in passing his guide to the LR section, and it helped me improve my consistency GREATLY.

I basically practiced on my bed, with a digital watch, under relatively sketchy timing conditions. I took a lot of breaks and didn't do full practice tests often, at least not until the end (despite my best intentions.)

5) How many preptests did you do? 20-25 total

6) What would you change if you were to do it again?
Nothing! Not stress as much waiting for my score I guess...

7) Any other misc comments/suggestions?
I think I had a pretty easy time with the LSAT because of things I've been doing for a long time: lots of reading, and when I do read I'm fast and can skim over details well if they aren't important, and an enjoyment of logic puzzles, starting as a child and continuing today with those cheesy Penny Press games.

For RC, while I didn't write everything down on the RC passages, taking a few seconds to note the conclusion and focus on the flow of the argument helped my timing. For LR, realizing that the right answer must always be supported in the text, and really focusing in on the details of the argument and the different parts of the stimulus made me go from missing between 1 and 4 per section to confidently answering them all correctly literally overnight (the last 4 tests I took, including the real one, I finished with -0/0 on LR.) (I picked up these tips from Voyager's guide which I highly recommend!)

In general, I really like tests like the LSAT and tried to have fun with it. It was very nice when everything started clicking for me, and I went into the test with a lot of confidence because of it.

User avatar
Posts: 204
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:12 am

Postby cantaboot » Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:19 am

1) What score did you get? 163
2) What books did you use?
Powerscore Bibles

3) What prep courses did you take (if any)? Full length, weekend? None.

4) How long did you study for, and under what conditions?
I returned from an exchange trip in August and started prepping for the test in September. But I canceled my score because I choked terribly on the LG section. I then studied on and off through Oct and Nov until I felt ver confident about it.

I did not do the whole test under timed conditions, but made sure that each separate section was timed.

5) How many preptests did you do? Every single one of them

6) What would you change if you were to do it again?
Read more .... but it could not have helped that much, though. And stress less ....

7) Any other misc comments/suggestions?
Though my score is not high by the forum standard, I got 1-2 wrong on each LR and only 2 wrong on LG, and bombed the RC (I did not feel very well towards the end of my test, and the scientific passage - which I hate - did not help me either) - I ended up missing 1.5 passages and randomly bubbling all Cs.

I would suggest that for LR and LG, you simply do a lot of practicing, until you reach the point where you instinctively know what the quesiton is asking before you go to the stem....

I have a bad work habit, which is panicking and ready to give up at the very last 5-10 minutes esp on the RC. This has prevented me from getting a stella score -- the fact that english is not my first language probably made things worse (though I am otherwise an avid reader and fairly good writer). I guess not many of you here have this setback.

If you follow the instructions on this thread you will reach 170!

Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:45 pm

Postby Magus8472 » Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:06 am

I'm here on a lark, but I figure I might as well give my input.

1) 173

2) The big ugly Princeton Review and smaller-yet-equally-hideous Barrons PassKey from this year.

3) None.

4) About three hours a day for the two weeks leading up to the exam. It was during finals season of my final UG quarter. Just went over the books and then did the practice questions at the end.

5) As in sitting down, timing myself a la the actual test? None, but that probably wasn't the best idea.

6) It worked out for me, so nothing.

7) Just don't base your own judgment of your entire worth as a human being on this, yeah?

User avatar
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:11 am

Postby Framboise » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:12 am

1) What score did you get?
180 (Sept 07)

2) What books did you use?
LSAC practice exams (the single most useful study aid out there)
Kaplan 180 (highly recommended)
Princeton Review (not at all recommended - read about 10 pages, realized it was a waste of time and never looked at it again)

3) What prep courses did you take (if any)? Full length, weekend?

4) How long did you study for, and under what conditions?
I took a diagnostic test at the beginning of July and scored a 168. Then I didn't study for the next 2 months. I began studying in the beginning of September. I spent about 4-6 hours a day studying Mon-Fri for three weeks. (I go to a semester school, so classes hadn't started yet and I was done with my summer job.) On weekends, I either rested or spent at most 2 hours studying. The week before the test, I took two 2 practice tests, but other than that, tried not to think about the LSAT at all. Taking this break helped me significantly reduce my stress level.

5) How many preptests did you do?
Between 10-12. I tried to take all of my preptests under conditions as close to those of the actual test as possible. Always doing all the sections in one sitting, timing myself with a non-digital watch, etc.

6) What would you change if you were to do it again?
I would not spend 2 months of the summer worrying about not having started to study yet. Either start studying early or accept the fact that you're prone to procrastination and won't start studying until the last possible minute.

7) Any other misc comments/suggestions.
Make sure you know about all of the weird LSAT regulations, e.g. no cell phones, no digital watches, no pens, no hoods, etc. etc. And put together your clear plastic bag two or three days before the test, so you're not worrying about what you need to have with you the night before or the morning of.

If there are many test centers in your area, ask people who've already taken the test about the conditions at the various centers. My test center had great conditions - lots of table room, comfortable chairs. But I've heard horror stories from people who went to other centers in my area.

Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:38 am

Postby harshdadude » Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:11 am

1) What score did you get?

2) What books did you use? (Kaplan, Powerscore LRB, Powerscore LGB, etc)
First time: BP test prep (course + self-study)
Second time: Bibles + Kaplan 180.

3) What prep courses did you take (if any)? Full length, weekend?
Blueprint - full course. Took the test 6 months later though.

4) How long did you study for, and under what conditions? (during school, during the summer, etc)
First time: Studied 12 hours a week for 2 months, and then about 6 hours a day for a month until the test. -- did horrible.
Second time: Barely studied. 1 hour a day, a couple of pre-tests... did wonderful.

5) How many preptests did you do?

like 10

6) What would you change if you were to do it again?

Not study so much + make sure I get a GOOD test center.

7) Any other misc comments/suggestions.

get a good test center.

Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:28 pm

Postby Alpert21 » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:29 pm

Last edited by Alpert21 on Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
blue mosquito
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:59 pm

Postby blue mosquito » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:42 am

1) What score did you get? 174

2) What books did you use? LSAC Superprep, 10 Next Actual LSATs, Powerscore LG Bible (all highly recommended)

3) What prep courses did you take (if any)? None

4) How long did you study for, and under what conditions?
I studied sporadically for 6 weeks prior to the test. My first diagnostic was a 176. I took 6 more full-length practice tests, a few broken into sections, but all timed. My scores ranged from 169-179 and I realized that the Games were the major variable, with my score ranging from -0 to -8 and that the problem was running out of time. RC and LR were always between 0-2 wrong. I decided to study only games and worked all the way through the Powerscore LG Bible, then did only the games section from 6 more real LSATs. The Powerscore LG Bible really helped with learning setups, which solved my running-out-of-time problem.

5) How many preptests did you do? 7 full length + games from 6 additional.

6) What would you change if you were to do it again? The only thing I would do differently is to eat a good breakfast the morning of (eggs and bacon) plus one more cup of coffee. I was seriously bonking by the last section and it took my score down a couple points:
LG -0
LR1 -1
RC -2
LR2 -4
(Looking at the answers, I think I would have answered one of the RC and 2 of the LR2 questions correctly if I hadn't been so hungry and tired. Not that it matters too much, as it turned out.)

7. Any other advice? Relax and be confident.

User avatar
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:31 pm

Postby girasol » Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:59 pm

I got a 173, though I was practicing around 178 at the end, with a few 180s. I started out in the low 160s.

-Take AT LEAST twenty practice tests. The more the better...this is the single best thing you can do to raise your score.

-Get the LOGIC GAMES BIBLE and the LOGICAL REASONING BIBLE from Powerscore. Barnes & Noble does not seem to carry them anymore, so order them off the internet.

-Remember that you can study for this test- in fact, it responds quite well to the right kind of practice. I studied up from a 160-ish to a 173 in about six weeks (I did this with only the Bibles, a pencil, and a timer), and I am not known for my stellar study habits. I just really wanted this, had a clear number in mind, and gave up everything else for a month in order to get it. It is very possible to increase your score by as many as ten points, maybe even more, as long as you put in the time and effort.

Good luck!

User avatar
Posts: 120
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:20 am

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby waytofailself » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:16 pm

I'm a bit more mortal than many people here, but...

1) What score did you get? 164 (after first practicing around high 150s)

2) What books did you use? I bought a whole bunch of books, but found the LSAC provided test books to be most useful. Nothing beats the real tests...and some of the other books actually give poorly written questions (McGraw Hill for example). I didn't use individual books for reading comprehension (wish I did though), but found McGraw hill to be best for explaining games (just don't rely on their questions) and Princeton Review to be best for logic reasoning. I also recommend Kaplan's LSAT 180, as it saved my butt on the games section.

3) What prep courses did you take (if any)? N/A

4) How long did you study for, and under what conditions? I work full time as a teacher, and while I started studying for the December test at the end of August, I found myself to not be able to devote as much time as I would've liked. I spent one month getting familiar with the questions, one month working on my trouble spots, and two months working two practice tests a week and at least 4 practice sections a week. Juggling my job/LSAT = tough.

5) How many preptests did you do? See above. I ended up doing 8 full preptest and working through the sections of around 4 more. The more practice the better...I probably could've made the upper 160s if I had the time to go full out on this (but I'm still happy with my score!).

6) What would you change if you were to do it again? Take reading comp more seriously from the start. My weakness was logic reasoning, and I did okay in fixing it, but my reading score dropped tremendously. I started taking preptests missing upwards of 30 LR questions and got it down to 11 on test day. I started out missing one or two RC questions and missed 5 on test day (which is still less than the abysmally -12 & -13 I made on the 2006 tests).

7) Any other misc comments/suggestions. Start studying early. Better yet, start studying now. However, more than anything else, make sure you are in the right frame of mind going into the test room. Relax the night before. Try your best not to freak out. Get good sleep. Make sure not to drink a ton of coffee like I did on the morning of the test and have to pee horribly bad during the second section (and not having time to go until after the 3rd). Bring a small snack and a watch with you.

Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:11 pm

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby Georgetown51 » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:28 pm

I got a 176.

Started studying about 2 months before the test.

I used no practice materials.

I took 10 official LSATs, all in a timed environment at the library.

I didn't take a class.

My biggest piece of advice is to practice time management and intense focus. When you are trying to score high every question matters and you can't "space out" at all.

As a side note, I think that the number of high scorers in this thread who didn't take a study class shows that they are doing a great job writing this test. There is no "magic" way to score 170+.

Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:59 am

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby rolen27 » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:33 am

Whats the best book for reading comprehension

also anyone get ps ultimate setup guide? what is this book and is it helpful?

User avatar
Posts: 403
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:22 am

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby Ken » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:17 pm

This post is from JDewey providing insight into how he got a 180:

Thought I would give my bit of advice. I took a more holistic than most people I think.

Here are my top three bits of advice.

1) Read all different kinds of information. I would read The Economist, The Smithsonian, and Scientific American, daily. I think this is what helped the most, and reading should be a top priority. You can re-wire the neurons in your brain to better handle written words if you read all the time. Most people's brains are probably set in "T.V. Mode" and unfortunately there is no video section on the LSAT. Turn off the television, start reading dense material, this will help you across the board not just on the reading comprehension section.

2) Pick up a good book on INFORMAL logic. I hear people saying that formal logic important, believe me, for this test INFORMAL logic is actually what you want to study. I think people are confusing the two. I am particularly fond of "Informal Logic: A handbook for critical argument" by Douglas N. Walton.

3) When you are studying, figure out why each answer choice was wrong, as well as why the correct one was in fact correct. This is kind of common sense but the tediousness of doing this causes it to be often ignored.


Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:56 pm

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby Unstoppable » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:49 pm

1. 180

2. No books, except for those from the LSAC containing just prep tests.

3. None.

4. I began studying in August and took the test in December. I did not work or go to school during this time, and I had to move home with my parents to allow that. For some, that might not be possible, and for many more, it would be undesireable. For the latter among you, I suggest you take the time to assess what is really important: a test that can and will contribute significantly to determining the career opportunities you will have for the rest of your life, or your personal lifestyle for the next few months? If you lean towards the latter, I suggest you re-evaluate your commitment to law school to begin with...

My preparation consisted almost entirely of prep tests, mostly under very strict conditions. Because four sections does not really prepare you for the six you will face on test day, I usually did them in pairs: four sections (a full prep test), then a 15 minute break, then four sections (another full prep test). This is more extreme than the actual test, so if you can master that level of endurance, then the actual thing will be a piece of cake. I also used the same equipment I would be using on test day, down to the same pencils, sharpener, watch, et cetera. This is important because you do not want anything to be different on test day so that it might throw you off. Some people advise taking prep tests in a public area where there are other people around such as a library. This may be a good idea if you are prone to being distracted by that sort of thing, but I just took my tests at my desk at home and did not find the change in environment at all distracting on test day.

The other important thing, and this is echoed in the posts of a few other top-scorers, is you don't just take the prep tests, but you have to review them thoroughly. I would say that I spent about twice as much time reviewing each test as I did taking them. Any question I got wrong would get exhaustive attention in this review; I would analyze exactly how I approached the question, why that approach failed, and what approach would have allowed me to select the credited response. I would similarly pay great attention to each question that I had marked as 'unsure' during the test. It is important to see how you got it right, and how you avoided getting it wrong (perhaps narrowly) rather than just be content that you got the correct answer. That said, there may be questions for which the answer does not seem as cut-and-dried, even after extensive consideration, as perhaps it ought to be. Do not dwell extensively on these; whether the problem lies in you or in the test (neither is perfect, I assure you), there should not be so many of these as to seriously affect your score on test day. In fact, I would say I only encountered a question which I could not reconcile about once every four prep tests. If it is happening a lot more frequently for you, then you may be missing some important rule or concept which is essential to understanding those questions. Try to look at them as a group and see if they have common elements, and perhaps discuss them on a forum like this one where other people may be able to illuminate the issue that is causing you problems.

5. In the end, I did between 30 and 40 prep tests. If you are going to leave some out, then leave out the older ones, since it tends to be the case that the more recent the test, the more relevant it is to the one you will have on test day.

6. I would have investigated my test center a little more thoroughly. As it turned out, my center was fine (except for the fact that they did not get started remotely on time,) but it was one area that could have caused trouble and I essentially just "lucked out" in that regard. Other than that, as I am completely satisfied with the outcome, I would not change anything.

7. I was worried about taking the test in the morning, especially with a 1 hour plus drive to the test center, so I switched to a sleeping schedule whereby I would sleep from about 6 p.m. to 1 a.m. about two weeks before the test. This allowed me to take the test in "my afternoon," and worked quite well as I never felt remotely tired or unfocused during the test. However, I don't suggest doing this unless you know how your body will react. That said, if you are really not a morning person it is something to consider, though I'd suggest that you start experimenting with adjusting your circadian rythm months ahead of time to get a feel for what you can expect.

User avatar
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:07 pm

Re: Great Advice on How to get 160+ on the LSAT...

Postby JustDude » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:41 pm

Wow guys you all a tough. This is the second best advice thread. The best one is not to attend scholls below T-50.

Return to “LSAT Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], yas and 5 guests