Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

User avatar
Anaconda
Posts: 610
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:51 pm

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby Anaconda » Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:22 pm

My problem is that I can't resist grading my PT timed before doing it again untimed. Grrr

User avatar
jr1886
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:24 am

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby jr1886 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:54 pm

Anaconda wrote:My problem is that I can't resist grading my PT timed before doing it again untimed. Grrr

I suspect doing this will bias the way you approach the untimed part. Just try to resist the temptation

User avatar
dub
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 9:05 pm

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby dub » Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:23 pm

jr1886 wrote:
Anaconda wrote:My problem is that I can't resist grading my PT timed before doing it again untimed. Grrr

I suspect doing this will bias the way you approach the untimed part. Just try to resist the temptation

+1

User avatar
AverageTutoring
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:18 pm

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby AverageTutoring » Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:52 pm

Anaconda wrote:My problem is that I can't resist grading my PT timed before doing it again untimed. Grrr


What benefit do you feel you're gaining from taking tests twice: timed and untimed?
Last edited by AverageTutoring on Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

HOV
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 3:31 pm

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby HOV » Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:57 pm

AverageTutoring wrote:
Anaconda wrote:My problem is that I can't resist grading my PT timed before doing it again untimed. Grrr


What benefit do you fell you're gaining from taking tests twice: timed and untimed?


umm...read the last five pages of the thread?

in short: a thorough thorough review.

User avatar
AverageTutoring
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:18 pm

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby AverageTutoring » Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:03 pm

HOV wrote:
AverageTutoring wrote:
Anaconda wrote:My problem is that I can't resist grading my PT timed before doing it again untimed. Grrr


What benefit do you fell you're gaining from taking tests twice: timed and untimed?


umm...read the last five pages of the thread?

in short: a thorough thorough review.


I'm asking for Anaconda's view, not for the general perception on the matter. If he answered this question for himself in a prior post then touche but I am simply to lazy to backread 5 pages.

I don't think Anaconda, specifically, should be taking untimed tests so I am asking what benefit he personally derives from it.

User avatar
Anaconda
Posts: 610
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:51 pm

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby Anaconda » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:04 pm

Why don't you think i should be using this strategy. That's an absurd statement...

AverageTutoring wrote:
HOV wrote:
AverageTutoring wrote:
Anaconda wrote:My problem is that I can't resist grading my PT timed before doing it again untimed. Grrr


What benefit do you fell you're gaining from taking tests twice: timed and untimed?


umm...read the last five pages of the thread?

in short: a thorough thorough review.


I'm asking for Anaconda's view, not for the general perception on the matter. If he answered this question for himself in a prior post then touche but I am simply to lazy to backread 5 pages.

I don't think Anaconda, specifically, should be taking untimed tests so I am asking what benefit he personally derives from it.

User avatar
AverageTutoring
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:18 pm

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby AverageTutoring » Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:11 pm

Anaconda wrote:Why don't you think i should be using this strategy. That's an absurd statement...


I think your time could be better spent on other strategies. Taking a PT untimed is essentially the equivalent of reviewing a PT for a very extended period of time: an inefficient allocation of your time, in my opinion.

What I would be focusing on if I was you is breaking down the LSAT into its three components: LG, LR and RC. I would concentrate on individual sections until you felt comfortable with the material. Making Logic Games your bitch would be my first stop.

To be honest, I think taking untimed PTs much like reviewing every question right or wrong on a PT, is a unholy waste of time (for anyone).

But hey, if it's helping far be it for me to tell you differently.

Good luck with your prep!

JacobH
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:04 pm

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby JacobH » Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:47 pm

AverageTutoring wrote:
Anaconda wrote:Why don't you think i should be using this strategy. That's an absurd statement...


I think your time could be better spent on other strategies. Taking a PT untimed is essentially the equivalent of reviewing a PT for a very extended period of time: an inefficient allocation of your time, in my opinion.

What I would be focusing on if I was you is breaking down the LSAT into its three components: LG, LR and RC. I would concentrate on individual sections until you felt comfortable with the material. Making Logic Games your bitch would be my first stop.

To be honest, I think taking untimed PTs much like reviewing every question right or wrong on a PT, is a unholy waste of time (for anyone).

But hey, if it's helping far be it for me to tell you differently.

Good luck with your prep!


I feel reviewing right answers are a waste of time. Review wrong answers that you had during a timed PT is much more beneficial as you get to see where you went wrong during those 1-2 minutes that made you make the wrong choice. Many people during their practice forget about that timed aspect of the test.

I understand making LG your bitch, because that's the easiest portion to study for. However, how would you go about LR, and better yet, how would you go about RC, without going through the PTs? I never found doing drills all that helpful, because I would fall into a rhythm just doing a set of Weakens or Assumption questions.

Going through wrong answers is still a very good way to study.

User avatar
Day2Daze
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:18 am

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby Day2Daze » Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:59 pm

This idea is fuckin brilliant! Although I would say only use this method once youve finished both the Bibles. Gonna try it in a bit...if I ever stop procrastinating. Thankss :)

User avatar
Anaconda
Posts: 610
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:51 pm

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby Anaconda » Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:19 am

I don't understand why you first singled me out for using SoS's strategy and now you're assuming that this is a complete waste of time despite several people including the OP attesting to how effective it is.

Since when is reviewing questions you get right "wasting your time?" Any LSAT professional says to review questions you get right, especially ones you weren't 100% sure on. Sure, you can get a -0 on a LR section, but how many of those were just luck because you misread or didn't understand a stimulus and/or every answer choice?

Re-taking the test untimed allows you to clearly see what questions you misread, and allows you to attack LGs from different perspectives. Even if you get all the LGs right, maybe on your second attempt you discover a new inference and destroy that particular game. On RC you can see the points in the passage you didn't internalize and how the questions and answer choices fooled you to select a wrong answer. Sure, you can get a -0 on an in-out game. You don't review it. How is that going to help you out when you see an ever harder in-out game in June? You'll regret not going over that game because you were so "confident" in your abilities. Just because you get one particular question/game right doesn't mean you'll get another question/game right on your next test of very similar difficulty, type, and approach.

You seem to be making largely incorrect assumptions without considering the possible benefits of Stanley Otto Swift's strategy, and you're making outrageous claims like saying reviewing questions on a PT right or wrong "is an unholy waste of time."



AverageTutoring wrote:
Anaconda wrote:Why don't you think i should be using this strategy. That's an absurd statement...


I think your time could be better spent on other strategies. Taking a PT untimed is essentially the equivalent of reviewing a PT for a very extended period of time: an inefficient allocation of your time, in my opinion.

What I would be focusing on if I was you is breaking down the LSAT into its three components: LG, LR and RC. I would concentrate on individual sections until you felt comfortable with the material. Making Logic Games your bitch would be my first stop.

To be honest, I think taking untimed PTs much like reviewing every question right or wrong on a PT, is a unholy waste of time (for anyone).

But hey, if it's helping far be it for me to tell you differently.

Good luck with your prep!

User avatar
GoldenGloves
Posts: 378
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:02 pm

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby GoldenGloves » Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:39 pm

I just started with this strategy today & feel great about it. Not viewing answers before untimed review is crucial to the process. Plus, you can't view answers right after taking the real test anyway.

User avatar
downing
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:03 am

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby downing » Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:25 pm

I sort of started SOS's strategy. I took PT24 yesterday, timed at 33mins per section and received a 166. I had some work to do so I didn't take it untimed yet, and I checked my answers (which I know you aren't supposed to do!).
For now I'm redoing each section untimed whenever I have some free time to spare. I'm quite happy about being able to leave my job in a week and half. When my days become free of teaching Kindergarteners, I'll be doing this SOS stuff hardcore. HAHAHAHA.

User avatar
blink
Posts: 428
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:14 pm

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby blink » Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:15 pm

AverageTutoring wrote: but I am simply to lazy to backread 5 pages.

I don't think Anaconda, specifically, should be taking untimed tests so I am asking what benefit he personally derives from it.


Are you too lazy to tack on that extra "o" as well?

I have no idea why someone would take your advice when you seem to think you know someone simply based on faulty assumptions you have made about them.

User avatar
Anaconda
Posts: 610
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:51 pm

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby Anaconda » Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:27 pm

blink wrote:
AverageTutoring wrote: but I am simply to lazy to backread 5 pages.

I don't think Anaconda, specifically, should be taking untimed tests so I am asking what benefit he personally derives from it.


Are you too lazy to tack on that extra "o" as well?

I have no idea why someone would take your advice when you seem to think you know someone simply based on faulty assumptions you have made about them.


Well, he's not called AverageTutoring for nothing.

User avatar
Gemini
Posts: 1943
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:23 pm

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby Gemini » Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:30 pm

Anaconda wrote:
blink wrote:
AverageTutoring wrote: but I am simply to lazy to backread 5 pages.

I don't think Anaconda, specifically, should be taking untimed tests so I am asking what benefit he personally derives from it.


Are you too lazy to tack on that extra "o" as well?

I have no idea why someone would take your advice when you seem to think you know someone simply based on faulty assumptions you have made about them.


Well, he's not called AverageTutoring for nothing.



Watch out, Anaconda, you have a stalker!

nStiver
Posts: 388
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:15 am

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby nStiver » Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:09 pm

Chill guys! From what I have seen in his other posts, AT seems to know his stuff. Maybe his desire to help came across as a little harsh on the internet.

gerbal
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 12:42 am

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby gerbal » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:35 am

I think one problem with this method is that you end up spending too much time reviewing/risk burning out. If you have 5 months left for the lsat, I think this is a great way to study. But I also think it might be even more beneficial to those taking the october test to do a PT, score it, and go over whatever questions they missed/weren't sure about thoroughly.

User avatar
vttran9
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 3:30 pm

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby vttran9 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:19 am

Tried this method on PT 30 today and LOVED IT.

When you have to answer a question twice without knowing the answer under different conditions, you get a better glimpse of how you approached the question and how you got it wrong.

User avatar
downing
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:03 am

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby downing » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:23 am

gerbal wrote:I think one problem with this method is that you end up spending too much time reviewing/risk burning out. If you have 5 months left for the lsat, I think this is a great way to study. But I also think it might be even more beneficial to those taking the october test to do a PT, score it, and go over whatever questions they missed/weren't sure about thoroughly.


hahaha, burnout is for the weak!

User avatar
blink
Posts: 428
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:14 pm

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby blink » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:43 am

nStiver wrote:Chill guys! From what I have seen in his other posts, AT seems to know his stuff. Maybe his desire to help came across as a little harsh on the internet.



I hate you purely because of your 'tar.

User avatar
FlanAl
Posts: 1474
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:53 pm

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby FlanAl » Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:48 pm

just bumping for reference

Barack O'Clinton
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:58 am

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby Barack O'Clinton » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:24 am

I don't know about you guys, but this method is kick ass. I tried it for the first time Sunday and got a 159 timed and a 174 untimed. I'd like you guys to comment on the review of wrong answers. Now for Logic Games, I find understanding my LG mistakes and eliminating them is easy (relative to LR & RC mistakes). With LGs there are definitely right answers. Either something "Can be True" or it cannot. Either something "Must be True" or it cannot. Getting used to patterns in inference making and efficient diagramming will help you see these things.

However, in the ungodly amount of time that I spent reviewing my performance the other day by re-taking the test untimed, I began to question how exactly review of the answers will make me better for the next time ...

Now hear me out before someone jumps my ass and tells me I'm an idiot! Things get really feisty on these boards sometimes lol ... But really, when I review some questions in LR and certain types of RC questions (like those damn which of the following would best be the beginning of the next paragraph -- like wtf it's a new paragraph! The conventions of composition say that you can transition into any topic you like!), it seems to me that there is an arbitrariness to some of the answers that is just frustrating. So I feel like reviewing the answers helps me understand AFTER THE FACT how some nutty psychometrician at LSAC was approaching an argument from some very obscure angle for one question, and I can honestly say that I understand why an answer was right "THAT TIME," but how do some of you take away functional techniques or considerations that you can use to get LR or stupid RC questions right "NEXT TIME"????

I find that sometimes all I can take away from some questions is ... "Read more critically" which really means "Hope that next time you read a question you will think really fucked up like the guy that wrote it" I know review is important, and I know I will progress if I commit to substantive review. It just doesn't always feel substantive. Also, I've only taken 3 prep tests in my life, do you think that my confused perception from where the correctness and incorrectness of answers are coming from will be resolved by just seeing more questions? I know the whole commitment to the power of repetition well as a former econ major who relied on it to master tons of algebra and 3 calculus classes, but again math answers have the similar finite quality of Logic games.


Your insight is appreciated TLS

motiontodismiss
Posts: 870
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:36 pm

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby motiontodismiss » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:21 am

This is interesting except for the part where I need two copies of every test. I think I'll try it. I'll just have to spend $200 buying PrepTests off of cambridgeLSAT.

User avatar
Anaconda
Posts: 610
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:51 pm

Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby Anaconda » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:37 am

motiontodismiss wrote:This is interesting except for the part where I need two copies of every test. I think I'll try it. I'll just have to spend $200 buying PrepTests off of cambridgeLSAT.


It's even more if you buy hardcopies of every PT.




Return to “LSAT Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: tracy9524, Yahoo [Bot] and 4 guests