Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

harut44
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby harut44 » Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:21 pm

This is genius. Thanks for the thread.

HOV
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby HOV » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:56 pm

. . .
Last edited by HOV on Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Anaconda
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby Anaconda » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:07 pm

HOV wrote:i just tried this out with pt27. for those of you who plan on doing this in one day get ready for a long and gruesome day. no pain no gain i guess. i typed this up as soon as i finished the last question and i have yet to score todays pt but i can already feel the satisfaction of having brute-forced myself through a second round in the same day.

i undoubtedly feel a good days work was done today.


Can you let us know your improvement?

I did this the past few day on PT 14.

Today I only redid the LR sections, but on LR1, I went from -6 (timed) to - 9 (untimed)!! I think I was just psyching myself out, and it didn't help that I graded before redoing, so I had a general idea what I missed.

However, on the 2nd LR section, I went from a -9 to a -5, which is isn't bad at all. It was bizarre that I still switched two answers from right to wrong, but switched 6 answers from wrong to right (in regards to what I had on the timed PT). I'm not going to bother redoing LG since I had a -2 and already reviewed it before starting this strategy, but I would have no doubt gotten a -0 untimed. So through 3 sections, I would have gone from a 77 raw score to an 80 (161 -> 163) - but had I not regressed in the first section, it would have been a +9 raw score improvement (161 ->166) . I'm going to redo the RC section tomorrow, and even re-review the LR questions I missed wrong for the 3rd time, just to reinforce it.

I'm also considering typing out explanations for every problem I get wrong from this point forward, but that might be a 10 hour commitment for every PT I take, so I'm not quite sure yet.

HOV
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby HOV » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:30 pm

so i just scored it. my score increased by three points as i got 4 questions right during my untimed session that i had gotten wrong when i timed myself. this leads me to believe that for the ones that i got wrong during both sessions:

1.there was probably some bias towards a particular answer or;
2. i'm consistently approaching a certain type of question in a certainly flawed manner.

thats a modest gain but i'll take anything. the key is that i'm going to walk away from my desk satisfied with the thorough review i've done today.

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Anaconda
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby Anaconda » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:37 pm

HOV wrote:so i just scored it. my score increased by three points as i got 4 questions right during my untimed session that i had gotten wrong when i timed myself. this leads me to believe that for the ones that i got wrong during both sessions:

1.there was probably some bias towards a particular answer or;
2. i'm consistently approaching a certain type of question in a certainly flawed manner.

thats a modest gain but i'll take anything. the key is that i'm going to walk away from my desk satisfied with the thorough review i've done today.


I'm sure we'll get better at it and learn how to remove our biases redoing the LR questions. It's funny how biased one's tendencies can towards LR questions whereas on LG it's easy to correct mistakes the second time.

HOV
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby HOV » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:40 pm

actually i'm reviewing my mistakes right now and it turns out the points i got were mostly from the questions i refrained from guessing on during my timed session. the rest of the mistakes were consistently made during both sessions.

triplem25
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby triplem25 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:45 pm

I just started my prep for the Feb 2011 test a couple weeks ago, went through all three bibles and stumbled upon this technique last week. Just got done checking my answers for my first prep test after doing the test timed, then untimed. I got 162 timed and 165 untimed. I really think this is an ingenious plan and really conserves tests, especially for me since I need tests to last 6 months. Right now my problem is that after doing timed, I start to second guess myself on answers while doing the test untimed, which only really is happening on LR. I'm going over it again for the third time now.

Note: Just wanted to say that these forums are really great motivation for studying, and I've noticed that if I'm not studying, I'm on the forums looking for advice/help/encouragement.

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blink
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby blink » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:08 pm

tagski

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Anaconda
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby Anaconda » Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:54 pm

I just tried this again on PT20 and I went from a 157 to a 165 (from timed to untimed). I cut down my LR errors from -20 to -11. The least improvement was in RC (-10 to -7).

My raw score went from a 69 to an 82.

I think this is a solid strategy, and one that I will continue to use.

NonTradHealthLaw
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby NonTradHealthLaw » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:03 pm

I love this technique. My remaining tests are precious commodities, so this gets 2x the use out of them. Prior to seeing this method I thought I was diligent in my wrong answer review, but I truly wasn't. This keeps me honest. Thankfully, both timed and untimed scores are improving as a result!

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Gemini
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby Gemini » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:56 pm

This is one of the best pieces of advice I've ever found on this forum.

I've only done it once, but it really helped me see, at the very least, my POTENTIAL.

I got a 165 and when I did it untimed, I got a 172. MUCH higher. It's possible, but HOV is right, you have to BRUTE-FORCE yourself because it's such an intense method. And that's why I've only done it once. But I'm definitely planning on doing it again!

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Anaconda
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby Anaconda » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:56 pm

Are you all redoing the entire test all at once? I redid two sections a few hours after taking the PT and did the other 2 the next day.

TMT90
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby TMT90 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:35 pm

How are you all differentiating between your timed and untimed answers? Different types of pencil markings, different color pens, etc?

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Gemini
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby Gemini » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:32 pm

TMT90 wrote:How are you all differentiating between your timed and untimed answers? Different types of pencil markings, different color pens, etc?


Personally, I write my answer in pencil to the left side of the answer choices. And I sometimes use red pens when going over the test, because it stands out better.

But to be honest, the best method would be to make a copy of the answer sheet and fill in the bubbles.

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lastch2
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby lastch2 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:05 pm

Anaconda wrote:Are you all redoing the entire test all at once? I redid two sections a few hours after taking the PT and did the other 2 the next day.



i've been doing the entire thing the next morning..don't know if this has any merit though

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Anaconda
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby Anaconda » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:30 pm

lastch2 wrote:
Anaconda wrote:Are you all redoing the entire test all at once? I redid two sections a few hours after taking the PT and did the other 2 the next day.

I think we would do better since the biases we have from taking the test aren't as engrained in our minds.


i've been doing the entire thing the next morning..don't know if this has any merit though

Mike088
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby Mike088 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:40 pm

I really love this idea. Thanks a lot for sharing man, i'll try it with my PT this thursday and see how it goes.

RFKScott
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby RFKScott » Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:52 pm

I did this for my second Diag test with Testmasters and got a 154 timed and a 170 untimed. I guess thats pretty encouraging. Seems like a great way to review.

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downing
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby downing » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:20 pm

GENIUS
Adopting this program right away. Thank you.
Unfortunately I won't be able to do the timed and untimed pt back-to-back, since I get home at 7 each night. It's a good thing I gave in my notice! LSAT > Job+apartment. I'll probably stick with my current untimed program right now.

pimpalicious1
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby pimpalicious1 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:55 pm

I actually saw this thread with a couple of weeks to go before the LSAT last summer and immediately realized how amazing it was and why my score was not improving. This time around I've been using this method and these are my results thus far:


Timed: 164 173 171 172 173 179 178
Untimed: 177 180 179 180 179 180 (Not finished)


Just thought I'd post that because I was really frustrated before and I'm sure a ton of people feel that way now. Good luck everyone!

bdegoli1
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby bdegoli1 » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:59 am

NonTradHealthLaw wrote:I love this technique. My remaining tests are precious commodities, so this gets 2x the use out of them. Prior to seeing this method I thought I was diligent in my wrong answer review, but I truly wasn't. This keeps me honest. Thankfully, both timed and untimed scores are improving as a result!


Not to dissuade you from using this technique, but don't forget that the test itself is timed. This isn't really for you directly, just general advice--this is a brilliant approach to using PTs, just don't let it stop you from focusing on timing, if that's something you still need improvement on. Bump.

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jr1886
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby jr1886 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:09 am

PT15-----159 Timed
PT15-----176 Untimed
This implies i have fairly a good grasp of the LSAT concepts. I just need my brain to work faster under the time constraint.

Thanks for the method SOS.

Mike088
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby Mike088 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:45 pm

tried this a few days ago... scored a 163 timed and a 166 untimed. very helpful and thorough way of reviewing. I i'm going to take another PT today and use the same method.

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Anaconda
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby Anaconda » Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:51 pm

Are you guys scoring you timed test and then retaking it, or do you retake it without knowing how you did on the timed test?

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jr1886
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Re: Bridging the gap between timed and untimed practice

Postby jr1886 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:52 pm

Anaconda wrote:Are you guys scoring you timed test and then retaking it, or do you retake it without knowing how you did on the timed test?

I retake without scoring it but take as long as i need to answer any question. This was my first experience with this method and it was enlightening how much speed is tripping me up
Edit: for your opinion, from PT15, I switched two LR questions from correct to incorrect but I switched 11 LR from Incorrect to correct. I switched just two RC from incorrect to correct to get a perfect score. I had a -7 in the timed section which includes a passage with 5 questions completely untouched. LG, i went from -5 to -0 but there was a game i did not touch doing the timed section




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